April 24, 2006
Bush investigation could lead to USC forfeits
USC has asked the Pac10 to open an investigation into possible violations involving improper benefits to Heisman Trophy winner Reggie Bush's family last season.
According to reports, the Bush family was living in home which was purchased last year by Michael Michaels, a man who allegedly tried to steer Bush toward an agent and who also allegedly has ties to a sports marketing firm.
When a reporter called to ask questions about the home, rent, and the sale, the Bush family moved out of the house the next day.
The Pac10 will investigate if Bush and/or his family received an improper benefit. If they paid below market value in rent for the $757,500 home, it could be regarded as a major NCAA violation.
A conference spokesman confirmed that he expects the NCAA will be involved as a result of the Pac10 investigation.
Hansen declined to speculate about the Bush matter but said that if a student-athlete's family could prove it was "paying fair-market rent for places to stay," it would not matter who owned the property.Asked whether USC may have to forfeit games that Bush played in if it were determined that rules were broken, Hansen said, "It's conceivable you go all the way up to forfeiture of games, but you would have to have very, very solid evidence that there had been a major violation."
Ron Barker, associate commissioner for enforcement for the Pac-10, said he expected that the NCAA would become involved, but added that the matter could be "tricky" because Bush has no eligibility left.
Under NCAA rules, Bush could have been ineligible even if he had no knowledge of the arrangement.
According to NCAA guidelines, the relationship between the family and Michaels could constitute a violation, even if Bush had no knowledge of the relationship.An NCAA rules guide designed for student-athletes states: ``Nor may your relatives or friends accept benefits from an agent, financial advisor, runner or any other person associated with an agency business. (Benefits include but are not limited to transportation, money and gifts, regardless of the value of the benefit or if it is used.)''
That refers to NCAA bylaw 12.3.1, which further states that ''an individual shall be ineligible if he or she (or his or her relatives or friends) accepts such benefits.'' Thus, Bush might have been ineligible for the entire season.
Comments:
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on April 24, 2006 2:43 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
I'll be willing to give up Reggie's Heisman, to Vince (of Texas) for a just a chance for my Clippers to meet the Spurs or Mavs (of Texas) in the Western Conference Finals... tied 98-98, with 23 seconds left, Sam Cassell with the ball and Elton Brand in the post...
... and also will be willing to give up USC's 2003/04 Rose Bowl win over Michigan (of Michigan), and thus The Title!... for just a chance to meet the Pistons (of Michigan) in the NBA Finals if they get past the Spurs/Mavs, tied 98-98, Sam Cassell with the ball, Elton Brand in the post
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on April 24, 2006 5:45 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Badger, what Title?! The "conference" title?
Theyre talking about 2005... not 2004 or 2003
... by the way, how silly is this whole thing? Its not like anyone from USC was involved... its one thing if we're talking about some Recruiting infraction by Pete Carroll's people or USC boosters that helped GET Reggie to commit, or something like that, but this is silly even if it IS what it seems. And if so, just strip Reggie of his last year of College eligibility, no harm no foul.erin said:
posted on April 25, 2006 1:30 AM — 72.177.13.219 — link — abuse?
Everyone does it, so basically Reggie and clan should have been a bit more careful with their dealings, especially when they were aware of the reprecussions to follow. On another note, the Heisman should have gone to Vincent anyway. He and the rest of the team beat out two Heisman winners!!! Texas Fight!!! Hook'em Horns!!!
ND Fan forever - GO IRISH said:
posted on April 25, 2006 2:08 AM — 67.78.156.226 — link — abuse?
Well, it would seem that if this shoe were on the other foot, that mayber Vince Young had cheated the system for his families gain, USC supporteres would be calling for their threepeat. No don't get me wrong, I am not certain how I feel about this "violation" when college football makes millions and millions off these athletes and they struggle through college dead broke. But how do we fix it? Pay them? Set up a salary cap when we do? Turn them into the spoiled rich kid elite like the NFL rookie class? Not at all, it's just that cheating is still cheating. As long as some college kids are getting this kind of benefit, and who's to say where it all ends, the NCAA has an obligation to enforce the rules that keep college football pure. Force USC to surrender it's games for whatever time Reggie Bush was playing for them. After all, he was CAUGHT on this one, how many more violations did he get away with?
MisterBond said:
posted on April 25, 2006 10:15 AM — 132.35.195.14 — link — abuse?
Some say, "What does it matter, he is going pro now, don't take away his recognition?" It makes all the difference, he knew the rules doctrined by the NCAA and he should be punished in some sort of way. I feel he should have the Heisman taking away and sanctions against USC. Even though I am a huge Texas fan and a Young fan, the Heisman should not go to Young. People will say it was Reggie's and it was given to Young, a big * will be by Young's name. There should just be a line through the 2005 winner's name to show the world, you cheat....it will follow you through the rest of your career.
posted on April 25, 2006 10:40 AM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue said:
A lot of people are saying "No big deal...Reggie didn't know."
1) It doesn't matter if Reggie knew or not. Under the NCAA rules (shown above in the original post), if his family received an improper benefit (like discounted rent, for example), the school can be held accountable. Period. End of discussion. The school has compliance officers FOR THIS VERY REASON.
2) How can Reggie not have noticed his family moving from an apartment to a house worth three-quarters of a million?? Both his mom & step-dad work for the county. How many county workers do *you* know that own/rent $757,500+ homes?
MisterBond said:
posted on April 25, 2006 10:48 AM — 132.35.195.14 — link — abuse?
My point exactly Kevin. With his parents living in San Diego county, Reggie had to stepped foot into the house and for him not to know anything about it and the terms they came into leasing that house....YEAH RIGHT. Punish, Punish, Punish....lol.
Canes alum said:
posted on April 25, 2006 11:09 AM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse?
From the sounds of it Bush is going to be the first player to have his Heisman taken away from him.
USC will not receive any sanctions from this because the NCAA is afraid to penalize the only good football program on the west coast. What happened to USC for them having their QB receiving illegal instructions from extra coaches...nothing! USC is full of violations, but the NCAA will not do anything about their dirty program.
Notre Dame Fan 444 said:
posted on April 25, 2006 1:19 PM — 199.208.239.140 — link — abuse?
Chris Webber's family recieved money and vehicles from boosters during his Fab Five years at Michigan. The University was forced to give back money to the NCAA, the School had to take down it's conference banners and all the income it got during the two year+ that Webber was at Michigan. Same thing when James "Tractor" Traylor was there, his mother was given a fully loaded Ford Expedition. Again the school was punished. I'm not saying that Reggie Bush, himself did anything wrong, however, he had to have known about his mother's new pad. If anything, the money earned for the Rosebowl should be taken away. Oh course had this been Notre Dame, Miami, Nebraska or Florida State, you would have all wanted to invoke the death penalty.
MisterBond said:
posted on April 25, 2006 2:33 PM — 132.35.195.14 — link — abuse?
I totally agree..........but I want the death penalty on USC. Ever since the hype of naming USC the greatest team EVER before going into the 2006 Rose Bowl, I have learned to hate USC. Being a huge Texas fan, I was glad to see all of the sports writers out there especially those on ESPN (Herbstreet/Terico) choke on their words and have to backtrack and give Texas it's props. I want the Heisman revoked, USC's conference title stripped and have NCAA ban USC from next years oppurtunity to play in a BCS game or for the national title. But that is just my opinion....haha.
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on April 25, 2006 6:31 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Martin, ya coming out from under a rock or something? -- stop trying to kid yourself. The AP had been naming National Champs for over 70 years... 2003 was no different - "disputed" Titles happen, its a part of the sport itself, get over it.
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on April 25, 2006 6:50 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Who should be "punished" in this whole thing is the Reggie Bush's Family... put sanctions on the little brother, he shouldnt be allowed to get an athletic scholarship when he graduates high school, "Mom and Dad" shoulda known better.
- just stressing the absurdity of this thing if it does turn out to be what it seems to be. There's no "punishing" Reggie Bush, he is off to the NFL regardle$$ of anything the PAC-10 or the NCAA decides to do. The Heisman? - Vince Young was My pick for the Heisman even before the Rose Bowl, still... it'll be a joke if they give a 2nd one out. The "streak"? - its all about the National Titles. I've personally never cared about streaks; in the grand scheme of things its the least significant issue (all USC won in 2005 was a Conf Title... you can have that).... this Agent-associate was trying to draw Reggie Bush awaaay from USC to the Pros, not to USC as a recruit. Im sure the rules & regs serve a purpose, but it scenerio just seems wacked-out in this case.
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on April 25, 2006 6:59 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
MistyBond, then you should Hate the Media, Hate the Hype, like a good citizen - not the school. Even now what Texas accomplished the 2005 season is unde- appreciated by the media (for lack of a better term). As time passes, that Texas team will gain respect as an all-time team.
MisterBond said:
posted on April 25, 2006 6:59 PM — 70.241.240.92 — link — abuse?
Everyone involved needs to be punished...even though it will not happen. Yes, Reggie is off to the NFL, taking away his Heisman will put a black smudge on Bush's name. VY did deserve the Heisman and after the Rose Bowl, no one can argue. I do agree you can not hand out a second trophy and I am sure VY would not want it anyway. He deserved to win it out-right, not have a hand-me-down. USC needs to have some kind of sanction on them too. They need to have more control and advise parents of the "Main Star's" to make sure there are no violations.......I hope this will not be just another clear violation by a USC program/player swept under the rug and just goes away.....things to need be handled properly.
Gerald said:
posted on April 26, 2006 7:46 AM — 216.113.128.239 — link — abuse?
So Cal Clips:
Unfortunately you are wrong. The reason why you cannot compensate college athletes and their families even AFTER they are on scholarship is because it would ruin the competitive balance. You would have USC or Miami setting kids up in beachfront mansions; no one else would be able to compete. Also, you do know that a star QB would always be able to squeeze the system for far more than what some reserve punter would get. Right now, there is at least some semblance of competition. A talented guy would choose West Virginia or even TCU over USC because of playing time and a shot at the pros. A kid could also decide to play defensive back at one school versus quarterback at another for whatever reason. But if you get to live like a king at USC for five years, most kids are going to take that. And if being a QB or RB pays more than being a DB, kids are going to stay at QB or RB. Without at least a SEMBLANCE of competition and equity, college football would collapse overnight. It would actually be worse than the NFL, because at least in the NFL if you get a good player you can keep him for 10 - 15 years ... in college you will have to spend all that money to buy a player away from Miami or Texas and still only have him for 3 or 4.
I am not saying that there were infractions in this case, but if there were, at the very minimum USC will be 0 - 13 in the NCAA record books, the 2005 PAC - 10 title will be shared by Oregon and UCLA, and Bush's stats will be expunged. And the Heisman? Well, it cannot go to an ineligible player. The good news is that USC will likely not lose any scholarships.
Another thing ... there has been a bit of untoward behavior going on at USC that the media has been overlooking because USC is the media's favorite team. I mean, look at how the media slimed Vince Young for MONTHS just because he hired a family friend as his agent. Meanwhile, you have a lot of the stuff that Matt Leinart, LenDale White, and Winston Justice have been doing, and now this with Bush. And even now, the media is hardly talking about it. Even now, we heard much more about Young's agent, his Wonderlic score, and his "inconclusive" pro day than we have heard about how Bush might have been ineligible last year. But if USC is forced to forfeit their season, USC's teflon coating will be gone.
But again, you guys will not suffer lost scholarships or a postseason ban, and this isn't going to get any other PAC - 10 team into the top 10 in recruiting. So, USC's steamroll will continue. Be happy for what Bush, Leinart, White, and Justice won for USC while they were there, but be even happier that they are gone ...
sean said:
posted on April 26, 2006 9:23 AM — 209.82.168.215 — link — abuse?
Gotta agree with Gerald, start paying them and we've got choas. But why did you only mention USC and Miami as teams that would set them up in mansions? Bowden's as dirty as they come.
Fact is, USC won those games and only one guy on the team knew those folks lived in that nice house. Granted, if USC played in a real conference, they wouldn't have won all those games. (hats off to them for beating ND though)
I understand that rules are rules, but wiping out everything the "team" did is pretty brutal. We all agree that Bush is gonna get the money regardless, so hit him where it hurts, take some of that money back.
posted on April 26, 2006 9:43 AM — link — abuse?
You know the situation is turning bad when a casino owner starts distancing from Bush.
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on April 26, 2006 8:15 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Gerald, you silly silly fool, have you gotten right anything I've said... ever?
I said..."I'm sure the rules and regs are in place for a reason" and went on to simply point out the absurdity of how this could potentially play out - some associate to an agent may or may not have rented the Griffin/Bush family a house at a cut-rate in effect to draw Reggie Bush to the Pros away from USC... AWAY from college... and the SCHOOL may end up getting "sanctions" ?!?
Bottom line, in this case, there may not be a need to punish the school.
Gerald said:
posted on April 27, 2006 12:13 PM — 216.113.128.239 — link — abuse?
Sean:
I mentioned Miami and USC because they are private universities with winning football traditions in cities accessible to a beach. Believe me, were Miami allowed to set up their players in beach condos, FSU wouldn't get a single player that Miami wants, because nothing in Tallahassee would be able to compare.
So Cal Clips:
As I said, USC would suffer no real harm. They would not receive a bowl ban, scholarships lost, or probation. They would merely have to forfeit all of their wins last season due to playing an ineligible player. That is far less than the damage inflicted upon Washington over Billy Joe Hobert accepting money from a booster. That scandal cost them a university president, an athletics director, and a head coach, and sent them on a downward spiral from which they may never recover.
And remember what I said about all of the stuff going on at USC? Well now you can add Sanchez's trouble to the list. Of course, Sanchez is presumed innocent until a jury says otherwise, but still, you have to admit that a lot of untoward stuff is going on at that program.
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on April 27, 2006 6:13 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
QB Mark Sanchez suspended, arrested on sexual assault charges !!! Gerald, now THIS is the most troubling/shocking incident surrounding USC than any in this off-season (if he's guilty).
This is crazy... all Ive ever read and heard about this guy was that he was Clean-Cut, Straight-laced, All-American-good-guy, Evangelical Christian, suburban kid from O.C.
If he's guilty, he should obviously be sent to prison, forget football... but if he's innocent this shouldnt play a role in what the PAC-10 or NCAA decide to do with the Bush/Griffin investigation.Lazarus said:
posted on May 3, 2006 4:38 AM — 70.240.90.122 — link — abuse?
So Cal Clippers, under the topic of "title," we're now talking about the Pac10 Conference Title 2005; Pac10 Conference Title 2004; the BCS Title 2004 .
Of course, there maybe more bad news with the upscale apartment Dwayne Jarrett shared with former teammate Matt Leinart .Sincerely,
LazEastCoast said:
posted on May 8, 2006 4:50 PM — 132.174.41.113 — link — abuse?
Take their games away, cheating, rapist bastards. Leinhart and Bush are very selfish people who only think of themselves.
Carrol just keeps his head in the sand, friends of the university told him that the Bush parents were living upscale, ALL Div1 school know what is going on....ALL of them!
Texas_Football_Sweetheart said:
posted on September 15, 2006 5:07 PM — 70.249.25.36 — link — abuse?
This is the best coverage I've seen on this subject and referers to how Mike Ornstein, Michael Michaels and Lloyd Lake, were in the locker room, on the field and at practices. So the most blatant lie, in my opinion is that Bush had no idea what was going on. It also goes on to say that he had an internship at the marketing company that is now representing him.
On another note, I am a Houston Texans fan and am so happy that we didn't pick this cheating dishonest piece of crud, no matter how talented he is.OU Fan said:
posted on October 24, 2006 12:38 PM — 198.152.13.67 — link — abuse?
Good old double standard. Look what happened to Rhett Bhomar at OU for accepting more money from a part time job than he should have. BIG media deal.
But when it's the "darlings of the media" USC, you don't hear a word about it. What a bunch of two faced hypocrites!
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zachary sweat said:
posted on April 24, 2006 1:08 PM — 150.176.140.66 — link — abuse?STRIP THE TITLE!!!