October 30, 2006
Oh no! It's CHAOS!!!
It's always interesting to listen to the pundits, writers, and -- oh yeah -- Cheeseburger Charlie pontificate on how awful the BCS system is around this time of year. Never mind that there's still several weeks to play and lots of shaking up to come, the talking point for the week appears to be BCS Chaos.
Steve Czaban -- Grab your ankles, here comes the BCS goat-screw
Eric Hansen, South Bend Tribune -- Idle teams are jumping Notre Dame... again (Must be the cheeseburgers!!)
Bob McClellan - Rivals.com - How does Florida jump Auburn?
Ralph Russo - Associated Press - Let the BCS chaos begin
Eric Moneypenny - Fox News - Title race in a tizzy
And don't forget the bloggers:
Opinions Nobody Asked For - College Football Made Interesting
Brendan Loy - Mass Chaos
The next thing you know we'll be hearing about how Boise State beat Oregon State, who then beat USC, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Ugh.
Personally, I don't understand the "chaos" argument. It's the same system for every team, so... how does any team get jipped/jilted/cheated/screwed (whether by goats or not, Czabe)?? The argument makes no sense to me whatsoever. If everyone is judged on the same system.... then where exactly does the chaos factor in?
Maybe it's because I'm willing to judge teams on more than just their records. I don't know. In my eyes, not every with equal records. For example, undefeated Rutgers and undefeated Boise State don't deserve a comparison to undefeated Ohio State and undefeated Michigan. One loss Texas A&M shouldn't be considered equal to one-loss Florida, USC, or Auburn. And so on and so on.
Seriously, guys - it's OCTOBER. It's just WEEK 3 of the BCS poll. Let's not rush into the sea just yet.
Comments:
Neville said:
posted on October 30, 2006 11:24 AM — 70.167.26.232 — link — abuse?
What I find interesting this year is amount of difference between the computers and the voters when it comes to the #3-13 teams. The computers are pretty consistent on Cal as a solid #3 but the voters have them #11. That is as big a difference as I can ever remember for a top 5 team. Personally I think the computers have it right this year and the voters are missing it.
Looking at the differences sorted by the teams getting the biggest shaft from the voters:
Team------Computers--Voters ---- difference
Cal------- 3 11 -8
Rutgers--- 8 15 -7
Notre Dame 5 10 -5
USC------- 6 9 -3
Florida--- 4 7 -3
Tennessee- 10 8 -2
Boise Stat 11 14 -3
Auburn---- 7 6 +1
Louisville 9 5 +4
Texas----- 12 4 +8
West Virgi 13 3 +10
Texas and West Virginia are getting a free ride and Cal and to a lesser extent Notre Dame are getting shafted.GATORGreg said:
posted on October 30, 2006 11:27 AM — 70.152.52.249 — link — abuse?
Long time Gator fan and alum here to say that nobody needs to get upset for the Gators being number 4 because if Urban keeps running the same plays over and over again we will lose again. Everyone needs to relax. Is it just me or am I the only one that feels that we get a 7 point lead 3 minutes into the first quarter and Urban decides he wants to run out the clock. Here is our current play calling.
1st down-bubble screen
2nd down- delayed HB draw or Leak sneak
3rd down - bubble screen possibly different side, wait there was a hold 3rd and 17 now
3rd down- delayed HB draw maybe another screen
4th down - PUNTMark this down as the depth of our playbook and see how far we get.
Andy Swartz said:
posted on October 30, 2006 11:32 AM — 132.189.76.18 — link — abuse?
Ahh, how true. I also love hearing how there are too many undefeated teams and that somehow there will be 5 at the end of the season.
Personally I would like the BCS blown up and just go back to bowls. I'm think I'm in the small minority with that opinion.
Andy Swartz
www.gophersportsblog.comjeosph said:
posted on October 30, 2006 11:46 AM — 64.39.146.199 — link — abuse?
Auburn should have not droped. Every team has a game every year that is almost an upset. Let us not forget that Ole Miss almost beat Georgia and Alabama. Flordia should't be ahead of Auburn. And Louisville should have not jumped anybody either. USC should be under ND as well.
Austin said:
posted on October 30, 2006 12:11 PM — 130.74.4.9 — link — abuse?
Jeosph your absolutely right, Florida shouldn't be ahead of Auburn. Just like Cal shouldn't be ahead of Tennessee. Auburn should be in the top 5, until they lose the rematch with Florida in Atlanta. USC should be ranked lower as well, playing close games every week finally caught up with them. They're not as good as in years past. OSU-Michigan will be a hell of a game.
Neville said:
posted on October 30, 2006 12:48 PM — 70.167.26.232 — link — abuse?
I am thinking more and more the BCS championship game will be a Michigan-Ohio State Rematch if it is a competetive game. For sure the computers will have the loser of that game at #2, blowout or close game (BCS voting computers do not use margin of victory). If one team dominates, it will up to the voters how far they drop.
If it is a competetive game you will see the Nov 18 poll move the loser to about #3 at worst. Between that poll and the final one (one week into Dec). As long as the voters do not drop the loser to #4 or more on the FINAL poll, the computers will more than pick them up from #3 in AP/Harris to #2 BCS overall.
ksuwild said:
posted on October 30, 2006 2:13 PM — 170.35.224.63 — link — abuse?
If the winner of the Louisville/West Virginia game is still undefeated at the end of the year and gets jumped by ANY one loss team it will be a tragedy, and a failure of the current system.
Either one of those teams would bring enough to the table to give Ohio St. or whoever ends up playing in the National Championship all they could handle.
posted on October 30, 2006 2:26 PM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue said:
Yeah, I don't forsee a top one-loss team getting the nod over a top undefeated (as per your Michigan - UL/WVU scenario). There may be some undefeateds that don't make it (Boise St comes to mind), but nothing at the top of the boards.
GATORGreg said:
posted on October 30, 2006 3:15 PM — 70.152.52.249 — link — abuse?
Im going to say this now if WV goes undefeated they WILL NOT go to the BCS championship. They play nobody. If the Gators played all high school teams like WV does all year I wouldnt run my mouth saying they should go. Get a real schedule and then you can talk about a championship game. Face it you play ONE RANKED team so get over it!
gene said:
posted on October 30, 2006 3:36 PM — 72.2.137.19 — link — abuse?
How does USC stay in front of Notre Dame? They (USC) loses to an unranked team, and Notre Dame lost to the number 2 rated team (Michigan.) Also how is Cal ranked above Tennessee when a head to head meeting resulted in a drubbing by Tennessee?
Ouch!
Neville said:
posted on October 30, 2006 3:52 PM — 70.167.26.232 — link — abuse?
Yes, Cal got thumped by Tennessee, but all the 1 loss teams have a strike against them somewhere. I could post Tennessee could not protect a late lead at home against Florida, Florida could not beat Auburn despite Auburn having no offense, Auburn got thumped by Ark who got thumped by USC, etc, etc. When you just count W and L and no margin of victory in those then Cal and Florida rise to the top of the 1 loss teams. That is not me talking, that is the BCS computers talking. Cal has played 6 of its 7 games against top 50 teams and the computers notice.
Of course Texas and WVa are getting free rides to this point. They are living on their preseason rankings and not what they have done on the field this year.
Jim said:
posted on October 30, 2006 3:54 PM — 68.87.100.157 — link — abuse?
GatorGreg and the SEC
WVU or Louisville would win the SEC this year, neither would go undefeated, almost impossible in that conference. I don't understand all the WVU hate, all they can do is play whoever is put in front of them. If they lose Thursday, a real possibility, you can turn your hate to UofL.
What this system needs is a playoff. Then I wouldn't have to listen to all the Big East bashing, let us not forget that the Big East is only 2 years in to the new conference after being raided by the ACC. Where is all the ACC hate, their champion will not even finish in the top 12 of the BCS standings this year, they should lose their automatic bid.
Neville said:
posted on October 30, 2006 4:11 PM — 70.167.26.232 — link — abuse?
I've been looking at the computers this afternoon and this much looks solid: The loser of the OSU-Michigan game can only be surpassed in the computers by a PAC10 team (USC or Cal) if those run the table. Not Notre Dame, not any SEC team, and for sure not any Big East team or Texas. If the final human poll has WVA/UL #2 and sitting in the #3 spot is OSU/Mich or a Pac 10 team, that team will go to the BCS championship and WVA/UL will not.
AllEers said:
posted on October 30, 2006 4:26 PM — 162.129.27.201 — link — abuse?
GatorGreg:
It's talking heads like you (after all have you seen WVU play at all this season; did you watch the Sugar Bowl this year?) that will make the WVU national championship game so much sweeter. I will be thinking of you eating your cheeseburger in Florida while enjoying my cheeseburger at the National Championship...
It's easy for you to talk smack because there isn't a prayer in hell that you'll be playing my Mountaineers for the prize. Remember...some fellow SEC fans had alot to say about the "weak conference play" Mountaineers before they met us in Georgia...WVUFB97 said:
posted on October 30, 2006 4:44 PM — 70.88.184.113 — link — abuse?
Gatorhead? Last time i checked the polls WV is playing two ranked teams.. Who is Vandy, Central Florida, Miss. State, Kentucky, Georgia (06' Sugar Bowl Losers), Where does ur schedule rank? UofF is just pissed because the SEC may not make it to a BCS game this year. Good luck in the post season. I'm sure we wouldn't mind beating another SEC team in the post season. Oh im sorry SEC Champion team i stand corrected.
Mountaineer!
So Cal USMC said:
posted on October 30, 2006 5:14 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Nevillie,
The Poll voters are dopes, especially the ones in sports media. That right there, those "mass caos" headlines are what some of these morons Live For... almost literally; creating hype is their livelihood. (the Coaches Poll has its own inherent problems).
The BCS Consensus Ratings should a heavier influence on the overall BCS Rankings; take the Averaged of the Polls and make the Consensus Ratings one-half and the Poll "consensus" the other half (insted of the Ratings only being worth a Third).
So Cal USMC said:
posted on October 30, 2006 5:20 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
WVU has YET to play the bulk of their significant opponents: Louisville (7-0), Rutgers (8-0), Pitts (6-2), So Florida (5-3).
Thats not a bad finish to a SOS. And Maryland keeps winning, 6-2 after beating Florida St.WVU should NOT even be Ranking in the Top 10 as of this week, BUT they will deserve to CLIMB if-and-when they continue to win as they start facing their tougher opponents. The Big East is Rated higher than the ACC and the XII so far this year, keep that in mind.
K Hat said:
posted on October 30, 2006 6:18 PM — 4.245.76.60 — link — abuse?
This happens at the beginning of every November, and then you see some teams start falling out like we're going to start seeing. The following train wrecks will be interesting;
11/2, West Virginia @ Lousville
11/9, Louisville @ Rutgers
11/11, Tennessee @ Arkansas
11/16, West Virginia @ Pittsburgh
11/18, Michigan @ Ohio St.
11/18, California @ USC
11/25, Notre Dame @ USC
11/25, Louisville @ Pittsburgh
12/2, Rutgers @ West Virginia
12/2, SEC Championship Game
volstrike3 said:
posted on October 30, 2006 6:34 PM — 216.103.178.34 — link — abuse?
The best part about the bowl season is that you get to see who is for real and who was pretending. I have a feeling the top 10 is going to look very different after the bowls. The SEC is going to look really good and the Big East, ACC and Pac 10 will end up looking pretty bad. Big East fans better hope UL and WVU get paired with a pac 10 team or Texas, otherwise they will get hammered.
IrishJT said:
posted on October 30, 2006 7:56 PM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
Big East Fans...pay attention.
It is not the fact that West Virginia only plays two ranked (Louisville and Rutgers) teams that bothers the rest of the college football world. It isn't so much that between those three teams, there is ONE national championship. It isn't even the fact the Big East has some of the weakest teams in college football over the past 10 years.
I think what bothers folks most is that despite your scheduling of perennial powerhouses like Louisville and Rutgers as your "ranked teams", the out-of-conference AND rest-of-conference schedule is extraordinarily weak. West Virginia has "real tests" against Marshall, E. Washington, E. Carolina, Syracuse, Cincy. It isn't the same as playing Minnesota, Purdue, Michigan State or Alabama, Kentucky, Ole Miss.
The point is that is real easy to stay healthy, to not have to showcase offensive/defensive schemes, to pad stats, etc. You can't do that against mediocre teams 10 weeks out of the year. Just ask USC.
Jim said:
posted on October 30, 2006 8:11 PM — 69.248.226.204 — link — abuse?
volstrike3,
Did you watch last year, not 1 Big East team got hammered in a bowl game. So if bowl season is your gauge then the Big East is for real.
So if a Big East team gets blown out does that make the Big East a bad conference. If an SEC team gets blown out in a bowl does that make the SEC a bad conference. The answer is no and no.
I repeat, the top of the Big East would be competitive with the top of any other conference and 4-8 are getting better. And to say they are playing a weak schedule is silly because the top 4 still have to play each other. I don't think you SEC guys watch any football other than the SEC, that's fine the SEC has great football, but if you don't watch don't tell us how bad everyone else is.
I know this doesn't mean much but the Marshall team said WVU was a much better team than Tennessee, when asked why they said WVU just had much more speed at every position, Speed Kills.
Big East Fan said:
posted on October 30, 2006 8:12 PM — 129.71.136.152 — link — abuse?
This article is courtesy of ESPN.com
I figured that this man said it best...Please read.
Rich Rodriguez's West Virginia team is pointed toward the national title game.So nine seasons out of 10, I would probably agree that from top to bottom, the SEC is hands-down the best conference in college football.
But not this year. The SEC might still be the deepest league in the land, but it's not good enough this season to afford a mulligan to Arkansas, Auburn, Florida or Tennessee, which are all trying to jockey their way back into the BCS title game picture now that USC has fallen.
If the winner of Thursday night's Louisville-West Virginia game at Papa John's Stadium in Louisville (ESPN, 7:30 p.m. ET) finishes the season with an undefeated record, that Big East champion will be more deserving of a spot in the Jan. 8 BCS title game than any one-loss team from the SEC.
***Note: edited for copyright reasons -- Kevin Donahue, Fanblogs.comTommie Trojan said:
posted on October 30, 2006 9:48 PM — 206.135.38.217 — link — abuse?
I'm with the Big East people on this one. I don't know about anyone else, but if Rutgers isn't playing SEC football, I don't know who is. They aint pretty baby after the show - but, they always come out on top. They grind it out with the running game and play tremendous defense and special teams. They got a guy named Leonard who is Rocky Bleier incarnate. Ray Rice aint too shabby either. I don't agree with some of the soft non-cons that these teams are playing (so are set a few years back), but, I cannot hold them accountable for Boston College, Virginia Tech and Miami leaving the conference. They are doing a great job of bringing three teams into national prominence in a very short time. That is tremendous work by three tremendous coaching staff. I beleive that whoever knocks out the other two top teams in this conference should be given serious consideration for a National Title shot.
Tommie T
TBaker said:
posted on October 30, 2006 10:40 PM — 71.2.90.4 — link — abuse?
Out of so many NCAA teams in this country, the team which is crowned National Champion each January should be the team that is the most perfect...perfection is a culmination of coming out on top of every challenge put in front of them. In relation to the 1-loss teams vs the "weaker" undefeateds (i.e. Tennesse, Florida vs. WVU, Rutgers, Louisville), though some may say that the 1-lossers had a tougher schedule, one fact is indisputable: you cannot "assume" a team would lose a game that is not played. For example, the Texas fan may say that there is no way WVU could beat Ohio State. If at the end of the season Texas is still at 1-loss and WVU is undefeated, in reference to that argument only one conclusion can factually be made: Texas lost to Ohio State. WVU did not. Assumptions about what might have happened shouldn't count. I want my National Champion to have won every game they played, regardless of who they played. If that team is Rutgers or Boise State, so be it. Champions, especially at the National level in college football, don't lose games. If we want to allow teams with losses in it over undefeated teams at the end of the regular season then create a playoff scenario.
easternfan said:
posted on October 31, 2006 7:31 AM — 67.72.98.87 — link — abuse?
Thankyou Tommy T! post 28 is what I have been saying all year. Everybody in the BE is trying to
beef up the non-con schedules. It takes time to get major powers into 1 for 1. Schools cant afford to play 4 home games. You need at least 6 to keep the lights on.easternfan said:
posted on October 31, 2006 9:02 AM — 67.72.98.88 — link — abuse?
WV, UL and Rutgers SOS is only going up at the end of the season. If fans like IrishJT want to complain about the worthiness of the BE thats fine but lets take a look at the ND schedule. Do you think Penn ST is better than MD? Navy better than Rutgers? Michigan better than UL? OK, maybe the last one, but ND was crushed by them, beat down, embarrased. USC will probably beat them too. So if the FL's and Auburn's of the college football world want to complain, thats one thing, but ND has no ligit complaint, in fact they are over rated where they are. The O-line is terrible, the running game lame. Brady Quinn IS a good QB but thats the only thing thats saved them from 2 more loses all ready this year. IF they stumble to 10 and 2 and get a BCS bowl they will be exposed and deposed as the pretenders they are. I am not a ND hater, its just any other team in the country with their resume wouldn't even be in contention.
IrishJT said:
posted on October 31, 2006 9:17 AM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
The chaos comes mostly from biases towards conference teams and regions of the country. For instance, SEC coaches/southern sportswriters think the SEC is far superior than any conference. While statistics don't share that same conclusion (i.e. Big10 has more NTs and is 18-18 versus SEC teams, not to mention they have the best two teams in the nation currently), the southern fan/coach/sportswriter roots for their own, whether it be an ACC, Big12 or SEC team. The same thing goes for the PAC 10. They desperately want respect and are so glad that the BigEast is a weak conference with weak OOC schedules. One team that neither group of folks vote for, for many reasons, to include hatred of its traditions, successes and standards...Notre Dame. Here is my definition of the "chaos theory" as it relates to college football according to AP voters' logic:
TEXAS: When Texas lost to Ohio State, they were ranked #2. The were THRASHED by the Buckeyes and dropped to the bottom of the Top 10. They are now ranked #4 in the AP...having struggled against several unranked teams.
AUBURN: The #2 Tigers lost to an unranked Arkansas team at home. They fell to #11 (roughly). They then, after beating Florida, shot back up as high as #3 and are now ranked #6.USC: The #2/#3 Trojans lost to an unranked Oregon State team. They fell to #8 in the BCS and #9 in the AP
TENNESSEE/CAL: Despite close games against unranked teams, both have managed to remain hanging around the Top 10. Tenn #8; Cal #10
NOTRE DAME: They lost to the BCS computer #1, BCS #2, AP #2 in the second week of the season. They have since won some exciting games which were closer than was expected(much like Cal, Auburn, Texas, USC, Tenn...)and locked in a couple of blowouts (much like Cal, Auburn, Texas, USC, Tenn...)! Curiously, the Irish have not moved up one spot in the AP while those other teams have leap frogged into, in some cases, the top 5.
Those are the facts. Those are the AP biases. That is one reason you have chaos. In the 8th week of the season, the voters still have no idea where a team should rank. They clearly have favorites and if that favorite doesn't lose one week...like Florida, who didn't even play...then they get to move up a couple of spots because Notre Dame played a close one.
That is why Charlie has a point and why the "Cheeseburger Postulate" has a certain amount of merit. And before you dismiss it as whining, Charlie has more Super Bowl rings than all of the other 118 college coaches combined. A guy with that many rings doesn't whine. In fact, he doesn't speak at all without having a damn good point. Maybe show him just a little respect for his accomplishments in football and as a coach.
Big East Fan said:
posted on October 31, 2006 9:24 AM — 168.216.24.38 — link — abuse?
"any of six or seven SEC teams would be undefeated in other conferences"
Yea right, you underestimate the parity within College Football, on any given night any team can win or lose a game. Your assumption is baseless and quiet frankly ludicrus. WVU for example is 2-0 vs. SEC within last 10 months. SEC Champ Georgia in BCS bowl, and a 42-14 win at Mississippi State. I think WVU has as bout as good a chance in SEC as other six or seven teams in SEC....admittingly, we have a much better chance at going unbeaten in the Big East. If you have a problem with it, encourage your team to join or schedule Big East teams and beat them, so they aren't unbeaten...until then shut up, you whinning is starting to annoy.
Portis said:
posted on October 31, 2006 9:32 AM — 24.140.92.2 — link — abuse?
Too much talk about the greatness of the teams in the SEC. WVU can handle and hang with any team in the country.
tOSU- Can't stop the run.....(see Garrett Wolfe)
Michigan- OK, maybe they have no weaknesses
USC- The Trojans got turned away by the Beavers (haha)
Louisville- They will experience the full force Thursday on ESPN.
Florida- They tried their hardest to give Georgia the game this weekend.
Auburn- Beaten at home by Arkansas.........enough said.Go EERS!
Big East Fan said:
posted on October 31, 2006 9:54 AM — 168.216.24.38 — link — abuse?
This is a listing of the Conference rankings. Just so the Big East bashers will SHUT UP!!!
Sagarin (RU #11, UL #14, WVU #16)
1. Pac 10
2. SEC
3. Big East
4. Big 10
5. ACC
6. Big 12Anderson & Hester (RU #3, UL #4, WVU #11)
1. SEC
2. Pac 10
3. Big East
4. Big 10
5. ACC
6. Big 12Colley Matrix (RU #7, UL #8, WVU #12)
1. Big East
2. SEC
3. Big 10
4. Pac 10
5. ACC
6. Big 12Massey (RU #9, UL #10, WVU #14)
1. Pac 10
2. SEC
3. Big 10
4. Big East
5. ACC
6. Big 12Wolfe (RU #7, UL #8, WVU #13)
1. Pac 10
2. Big East
3. SEC
4. Big 10
5. ACC
6. Big 12I could not find where Billingsly rates the conferences (WVU #5, RU #10, UL #12).
Computer Averages for Conference
1. Pac 10 (1.8)
2. SEC (2.0)
3. Big East (2.6)
4. Big 10 (3.6)
5. ACC (5.0)
6. Big 12 (6.0)Computer Averages for Team
RU #7.83
UL #9.3
WVU #11.83Tommie Trojan said:
posted on October 31, 2006 10:24 AM — 206.135.38.217 — link — abuse?
BigEastFan:
Good work. That looks about right for now. Averaging the five computers ratings would give off that kind of lineup. Yes, the Big East is having a great year, and the SOS of each of their teams will climb as they play thru the rest of the conference schedule. I'm workin' up something that actually rates the power of each team though, against Sagarin's ratings, and right now the only team rated higher than West Virginia is California. So, should Cal beat USC - there could be made an argument for Cal to play for the NC. Also, USC is just slightly behind West Virginia and wins over Oregon, Cal and Notre Dame might put them past West Virginia. There is alot of football left to be played. Let's see how it all shakes out.
Tommie T
easternfan said:
posted on October 31, 2006 10:35 AM — 67.72.98.88 — link — abuse?
volstrike your post #23: Big East needs a Pac10 team in the bowls? Come on man, we got an SEC team, actually the SEC CHAMPION TEAM last year and you lost dude! You know what, I like the SEC, you play great football, but get off the high horse, you LOST TO A BIG EAST TEAM! Steve Slaton broke Tony Dorsets Sugar Bowl record. I am aslo willing to see how the bowls turn out and this year the SEC is going to be an even bigger loser. You guys dont really play a tough non-com schedule either. Your volunteers played the only good one against CAl.
AU03 said:
posted on October 31, 2006 10:50 AM — 205.255.224.10 — link — abuse?
Big East Fan,
Obviously, some of these computer rankings value wins and losses much more than strength of schedule. That being said, I do think the Big East is a pretty strong conference this year, and certainly not the weakest of the BCS conferences.
On the other hand, not one of RU, UL, & WVU's opponents that they've played to date is ranked- yes, Miami was ranked when Louisville killed them, but look at the way Miami's season is going now.IrishJT, if you think the AP is biased towards teams like Auburn, I invite you to see what happened in 2004. Plus, the AP has nothing to do with the BCS. If Notre Dame wins out, I'd call them a top-5 team, but they still have to prove they can beat a team with any semblance of a defense, or at least not lose by over 3 TD's to them.
As for Cal, they are a great team, but they have played 1 team with a good defense all year- and UT beat the crap out of them- not AU/Ark beat the crap out of them, but putting in the 2nd team before halftime beat the crap out of them. Beating up on the likes of Minnesota, Portland State, and Arizona State proves nothing, although that win over Oregon State is starting to look better now.
AU03 said:
posted on October 31, 2006 11:09 AM — 205.255.224.10 — link — abuse?
"i.e. Big10 has more NTs and is 18-18 versus SEC teams, not to mention they have the best two teams in the nation currently"
The Big 10 and SEC have played 36 times this year? On WHAT planet do you live?
If you are saying the Big Ten is 18-18 overall, all then you're way off, the Big Ten has a slight advantage (91-86-7), but only because many of the wins have come against Kentucky and Vanderbilt. (The Big 10 has losing records against Auburn, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, LSU, and Tennessee) Secondly, what do results in years past have to do with this year? Nothing.
"AUBURN: The #2 Tigers lost to an unranked Arkansas team at home. They fell to #11 (roughly). They then, after beating Florida, shot back up as high as #3 and are now ranked #6."
Auburn moved up to number 3 in WHAT poll? We may have reached #3 in one of the computer rankings, but who else in the county can boast wins over the current top 15? No one, except for Florida and Ohio State.
BigEast Fan, I do agree with you- if WV were in the SEC this year, they'd have a pretty good chance of winning it, like almost half the SEC does right now.
EER10 said:
posted on October 31, 2006 11:53 AM — 129.71.238.253 — link — abuse?
#24 IrishJT, Pay Attention
North Carolina, Navy,Air Farce, Army, UCLA and Michigan State. Oh ya, Indiana beat the He!! out of the mighty MSU. What was the score in the Notre Dame and Michigan State game again ? Get real ! see you in the $hit Bowl.AU03 said:
posted on October 31, 2006 12:06 PM — 205.255.224.10 — link — abuse?
"We may have reached #3 in one of the computer rankings, but who else in the county can boast wins over the current top 15? No one, except for Florida and Ohio State.
(Place "multiple" before wins for clarification, but I at least did use the plural form)
IrishJT said:
posted on October 31, 2006 2:09 PM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
EER10,
Please don't post anymore. You just showcase your inability to grasp any concept or reason without being obnoxious.Rest of y'all,
While I appreciate a few of your comments, no one has explained why Notre Dame, in the AP, has not moved while these other one loss teams have. Texas is the only team that can boast a lost to a top 2 team. Auburn...no. Tennessee...no. Florida...no. USC...no. Come on, let's be honest. The Coaches/sportswriters (whether in the Harris, USA TOday or AP polls) all look at the position in the other polls to cast their ballot. So who thinks there is NOT a bias against Notre Dame?This is about money and the possibility for those voting Notre Dame out of the top 10 to get more of it by having more teams from their [favorite] conference in BCS games. ...that's horse shit.
So Cal USMC said:
posted on October 31, 2006 2:50 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
DMC Volunteer, Post 33, thats a loony statement (no offense).
eastern fan, IrishTJ,
The Big East is right about in the middle as far as BCS Conferneces go THIS SEASON. You cant take-away from the Big East, not this year. And ND is not a "bad" team. Conferences are rated as C-o-n-f-e-r-e-n-c-e-s (you cant ignore the Big Ten's TWO Losses to non-Division 1A teams!), and the Big East is holding there own among the BCS ranks (definitely better than the XII and the ACC so far this season).Jeremy said:
posted on October 31, 2006 3:09 PM — 65.82.138.66 — link — abuse?
You want to play for a national title all you have do do is WIN it is that simple win all 12 games and you go to the title game. I am so tired of hearing my team just lost one. If you claim to be the best in the nation do not lose. I don't care who you played if you lose you are not one of the best teams in the nation. The only way you can claim your are one of the best and deserve to play is if there is 1 or no team undefeated then you can start the arguments so for USC,Flordia,Tenn,Auburn,Texas,Cal,Arkansas,Boston College,Wisconsin,TexasA&M and Wake Forrest
worry about winning your conference and getting a BCS Bid stop crying about a National Championship until others get beat.
1CFBfan said:
posted on October 31, 2006 3:30 PM — 24.105.169.66 — link — abuse?
IrishJT
Stewart Mandel explained why ND did not move up on SI.com last week. It may be a problem with too many Super Bowl rings in ND if you are not satisfied with Stewart's explanation. You may know how many college football coaches have even worked in NFL.volstrike3 said:
posted on October 31, 2006 3:48 PM — 216.103.178.34 — link — abuse?
IrishJT,
ND has not moved in the polls because they have been winning close games against average teams. If win out you will be in a big bowl game but not the NC. Personally I think you will lose to USC. I am still a little suspect about Michigan, they looked average at best against Northwestern and Vandy. I think OSU is going to crush them.
So Cal USMC said:
posted on October 31, 2006 5:00 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
AU03, get a couple of things straight...
The BCS Computer Ratings account for SOS, inherently... Thats the Basis of their Rating systems (Billingsley's ratings are a bit different). Any undefeated team in the BEast will be in a similar position as any other BCS-Conference team that faced mediocre/weak OOC schedule -- it'll be their Out of Confernce schedule that hurts them this year and the the fact that they played a Big East schedule; Miami is a Horribly Rated 5-3 teams, Louisville wont get the juice they thought they would... 5-3 Navy isnt gonna do too much for Rutgers' SOS either... though if Maryland(6-2) continues success, it'll do nicely for West Virginia.
CAL has Wins over 6 teams rated in the Top Half of College Football; 119 teams in D1A (Consensus Rated):
No. 17 Washington St (6-3)
No. 19 Oregon 6-2
No. 25 Oregon St 5-3
No. 32 Arizona St 5-3
No. 45 Washington 4-5
No. 56 Minnesota 3-6
Non-D1A *Portland St*
Sidenote: 2004, simply USC and Oklahoma earned their spots ahead of Auburn... and then Auburn didnt do enough in their Bowl to make a serious claim. (Auburn 1993, 1983 teams were arguably more deserving). But Id like to know what Notre Dame-fan thought of ND's "rankings" Last Year, and just how "deserving" they were.
So Cal USMC said:
posted on October 31, 2006 5:09 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Its not just Florida and Ohio St... I dont know who said it AU03? easternfan?...
USC has a win over BCS-Ranked No. 13 Arkansas, Arkansas has a win over No. 6 Auburn... Tennessee, Michigan, Auburn, Oregon St, even NC State, all have wins over current "Top 15" teams
So Cal USMC said:
posted on October 31, 2006 5:32 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Irish TJ,
Its funny you you sorta "give credit" to Texas in your arguement for Notre Dame's Under-Ranked-ness in the Polls... Actually, of those handfull of teams that you mentioned, it happens to be TEXAS who is the most OVER-RANKED and the Least Deserving of being ahead of Notre Dame.
Notre Dame: Rated 5th - But only "Ranked" 10th & 11th
Cal: Rated 3rd - But only "Ranked" 10th & 11th
Florida: Rated 4th - Ranked 7th
USC: Rated 6th - Ranked 9th
Auburn: Rated 7th - Ranked 6th
Tenny: Rated 10th - Ranked 8th
Texas: Rated 12th - But undeservedly "Ranked" 4th!
[West Virginia: Rated 13th - But undeservedly "Ranked" 3rd!]Id say Cal and Notre Dame are the two most under-"Ranked" by the Polls... and Texas and WestVU are the two most Over-"Ranked".
AU03 said:
posted on October 31, 2006 5:46 PM — 205.255.224.10 — link — abuse?
I didn't say they didn't value SOS, I said that some account for wins and losses more than SOS, which would be why the Big East would would rated #1 in some conference rankings (i.e. they still have 3 undefeated teams, at least for 2 more days).
The problem with using computer rankings is that they are desinged to predict the future based on the past, while getting more and more "accurate" as teh season goes on. There are not enough games in a college football season to make too accurate of a prediction, though and they cannot account for much of the parity that college football has (see: UT/Cal, AU/FL, AU/Ark, etc.). Your "consensus rankings" may say that Arizona State is #32, but honestly who have they beaten? 4-5 Washington? Big f-n deal. I would have to question a team ranked #32 if they have not beaten a single team with a winning record (except Nevada- WOW!) Most of those computer rankings don't account for margin-of-victory, either, which is good for a team like Arizona State, who has been blown out several times this year (as well as Cal being blown out in their only loss).
As for Auburn in 2004 how many wins over 10-win teams did OU and USC have? Even if you combine them, the amount is still is less than Auburn (I think, without couting the title game itself). You (and the computers) seem to value having a schedule with a bunch of mediocore-to OK teams over a schedule with a few really good teams and a few really bad teams. It's impossible to say which is better, but the "facts" you always post assume that.
Cal has 6 wins over teams ranked from 17-56 and Auburn has 3 wins over the top 17 (UF, LSU, WSU- I'm willing to bet that South Carolina is in the top 30 or so- they're sure as hell a better team than ASU), and the only team Cal faced in the Top-16 blew them out like they were a weak mid-major. On the other hand, Auburn has some wins over some weak teams (but none as weak as Portland State, might I add).
So what's better? Having a few wins over Top-20 (and top-10) teams, or a bunch of wins over Top-50 teams (with none of them in the Top-15)? There is no right or wrong answer, although the computers (and you) seem to value the latter over the former, which is why Cal is so high in the computer rankings. That doesn't change the fact that Cal has not beaten a top-15 team all year, whereas Auburn, Florida, Arkansas and Tennessee have, with Auburn and Florida having multiple wins. The voters recognize this, and that's why Cal is ranked lower in the polls- the same can be applied to ND on a smaller scale.
There are still a bunch of important games to be played this year, and the computers should sort themselves out better.
Jim said:
posted on October 31, 2006 7:00 PM — 69.248.226.204 — link — abuse?
wareagle524
You are right, the WVU stuff will sort itself out when the Mountaineers come back to Morgantown on January 9th to a heroes welcome with the hardware in hand, at that point WVU/Big East bashing will no longer be acceptable.
The Mayor said:
posted on November 1, 2006 8:11 PM — 67.174.192.148 — link — abuse?
Any bloggers out there from the state of North Carolina?
True Freshman Remene Alston from Greensboro, NC may make his debut against UW in Eugene this weekend for the Ducks.
I sure like the film I have seen of this guy! He's the number four back right now due to injuries.
It's exciting for us to get recruits from back east and I hope he has a great career at Oregon.
Big East Fan said:
posted on November 1, 2006 9:11 PM — 129.71.136.13 — link — abuse?
Some one please explain logically and intelligently why an undefeated Big East team shouldn't be in the BCS title game. I'm confused with your logic. Is it a bias? Lack of tradition? Too New? Can't beat a SEC Champ??? Please explain??? Hasn't defeated enough ranked opponents? (See Notre Dame before you answer that one). Really if you think about it, you can't come up with a single reason that couldn't be used for any other top 10 teams. But if you can.....do it now?????
DMC Volunteer said:
posted on November 1, 2006 11:06 PM — 67.161.233.59 — link — abuse?
Funny how Cal keeps popping up as BCS material, they were soundly 35-14 beaten by Tennessee...If the
argument is 'early losses don't count' which seems to be the west coast consensus...then TN can drop its early 1 point loss to Florida and claim BCS rights too....but then again a lot of crucial games are left to be played...by both Cal and TN...with little exception most of the top teams have played their tough games and are enjoying their coasters which they can easily win and wipe out with huge vote getting scores...VOLPIMP said:
posted on November 2, 2006 12:05 AM — 208.0.27.10 — link — abuse?
Big East Fan, in response to your question I personally think a Big East school with no losses should play in the Championship. Louisville and W VA both would deserve it in my opinion. The Mountaineers jumped all over our conference darling UGA last year, yeah I know the score was closer at the end but anyone who saw the game early saw how ugly it was. Rutgers looks awesome right now but I don't know if they are ready for the big boys yet. No conference can boast 3 undefeateds EXCEPT the East so don't worry about the haters. The BCS is an ugly animal though, and other undefeated squads have missed out, even an undefeated SEC team in Auburn. The only logical thing I can think of is maybe the middle and bottom half of the conference is weak? I'm not sure about the records, just throwing out possibilities.
EER10 said:
posted on November 2, 2006 7:58 AM — 129.71.238.253 — link — abuse?
IrishJT #50 Obnoxious ? you must be joking. You are the individual who is constant in your bashing of the Big East and West Virginia. I just bash back at Notre Dame. Actually you cannot say anything good about anyone or anything besides Notre Dame. I hear you are in first place in your conference. Notre Dame has a eight game lead over Temple. How are Navy and Army doing in that power conference anyway ? Lawyer in Bama...ya right !
Big East Hater said:
posted on November 2, 2006 10:56 AM — 209.251.132.34 — link — abuse?
You Big East fan's love to point out how you beat georgia in a bowl game. In case you havn't noticed, georgia was overrated and they suck this year. Don't talk trash until you beat some good teams. Over in the Big East you guys brag about how you beat one good team. We do it down in the SEC every weekend. Don't worry, even if WV beats Louisville they won't go undefeated for the rest of the season. Can you say Overrated
AU03 said:
posted on November 2, 2006 11:36 AM — 205.255.224.10 — link — abuse?
Its not just Florida and Ohio St... I dont know who said it AU03? easternfan?...
If you look at my posts (46 &48), I said
"multiple" wins.Auburn: Florida & LSU
Florida: LSU & TennesseeI was wrong with OSU- their only one was over Texas, but I won't argue with OSU's place in the rankings- they'd be #1 in my poll.
AllEers said:
posted on November 2, 2006 12:13 PM — 162.129.27.201 — link — abuse?
Big East Hater:
Didn't Georgia completely thrash LSU right before losing to us? Didn't they finish the SEC season last year 6-2? Hell the SEC is even afforded a conference championship.
Do yourself and all self-respecting SEC fans a favor. Don't bash last year's SEC champion team to prove your point about how strong the SEC is; it's an embarrassement to the knowledgeable SEC football fans out there.
The only thing overrated in your blog is your argument.Big East Hater said:
posted on November 2, 2006 5:09 PM — 24.250.217.142 — link — abuse?
You are living in the past. I never said the SEC was great last year. it is great this year however so stop trash talking the SEC. I just said georgia (and the entire SEC) had a mediocre season last year and it wasn't anything special for a good WV team at the time to beat Georgia.
I can only hope that the WV game tonight is full of countless fumbles and interceptions and they run up 60 points one each other just to show both teams are overrated.
Jim said:
posted on November 2, 2006 7:22 PM — 69.248.226.204 — link — abuse?
Big East hater,
I am not sure what you have but I bet it's hard to spell.
Right now, this year the Big East is a competitive conference. It doesn't matter what happens tonight.
The SEC is always good, nobody can argue that. It is in fact better than the Big East. UofL, WVU, Rutgers and Pitt would not run the table in the SEC but they would be right up there, it would not be a day off for anyone in the SEC when 1 of these 4 come to town.
When you bash the big east over schedules you are a little ahead of yourself. WVU's out of conf schedule is as good as Florida's or Auburn's. The Big East conf schedule was set up so the best teams would play at the end of the season. So stop the bashing and quit putting down the Beast.
And don't get too worked up because if UofL or WVU go undefeated they will be playing in the NC game, don't want to see you have a heart attack over football.
Big East Hater said:
posted on November 3, 2006 12:00 AM — 24.250.217.142 — link — abuse?
Actually, I would enjoy UofL (WV is out now) going to the national championship. Once they get blown out 40-10 you guys over in the Big East will shut up. And no, WVU's out of conf schedule is def not better than florida's out of conf schedule.
IrishJT said:
posted on November 3, 2006 8:44 AM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
VolStrike3...
Maybe you didn't read my posts, but your logic is inherently flawed. You say that ND has not moved up in the polls because "they have been winning close games." You mean like Auburn, Florida, Texas and Tennessee??That's exactly my point. We win close ones in dramatic fashion and get passed by idle teams. Those other teams win a close one and they move up in the polls when a team in front of them loses...and they certainly don't get passed by an idle team.
I appreciate your tacit agreement.
EER10 said:
posted on November 3, 2006 9:51 AM — 129.71.238.253 — link — abuse?
#78 IrishJT:
Just got beat, simple as that. I knew if BB was on he would eat our secondary alive and he did. It could still be interesting if Rutgers beats Louisvile next week. We get Rutgers in Morgantown on December 2. Cannot forget about Pittsburgh either. I wonder if I rewind my DVR when I get home if the outcome may be different ? I will here it from the Marshall fans tonight at my son's football practice, for sure !
Neville said:
posted on October 30, 2006 11:03 AM — 70.167.26.232 — link — abuse?But it is more fun to scream mass chaos...