November 5, 2006
BCS Poll 2006 - Week 4
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Louisville
4. Florida
5. Texas
6. Auburn
7. USC
8. California
9. Notre Dame
10. West Virginia
11. Arkansas
12. LSU
13. Rutgers
14. Boise State
15. Wisconsin
16. Tennessee
17. Oklahoma
18. Georgia Tech
19. Wake Forest
20. Oregon
21. Virginia Tech
22. Boston College
23. Maryland
24. Oregon State
25. Texas A&M
Comments:
David said:
posted on November 5, 2006 4:54 PM — 70.112.218.104 — link — abuse?
Texas is in a virtual dead heat with Florida .002 difference. Texas SOS is going to go up whereas Florida's has peaked and can't really go up (could possibly go down with all the "awesome" SEC teams losing)
A Louisville loss and a decent win over Mich by tOSU and a rematch of Texas vs. tOSU for the National Championhip seems pretty likely.
WVUFB97 said:
posted on November 5, 2006 5:21 PM — 68.57.171.167 — link — abuse?
Gator Matt the two players that ran on them r the same two that put up 300 plus rushing yards against ur SEC Champ. Those two players r the best backfield in the country. God do u watch football or is this just shallow minded. By the way look at ur famous Music City they booted the Big East and kept the SEC team probably because a big east team won it every year that we played an sec team there. ooch! let the crying begin.
CT said:
posted on November 5, 2006 5:48 PM — 24.26.253.159 — link — abuse?
It is going to be very, very close between Florida and Texas. I wouldn't call it a shoe-in that Texas jumps Florida, although if they continue to win David is right that the Texas' computer % will continue to climb because their SoS will continue to improve.
A Louisville loss will help Florida's computer % as much as it will Texas', and if Florida has the privilege of beating a one loss Arkansas team(the Razorback's computer % will climb significantly if they can get through the next three weeks with victories) in the SEC Championship not only will it keep them leading in the computer % but will obviously narrow Texas' lead in the human polls when, comparatively, Texas only beats increasingly lowly Nebraska in the Big 12 Championship.
Texas might still jump Florida, it will be very close. But, if I was a Longhorn fan I'd be rooting for Arky to beat Florida in the SEC title game or for Florida to play a 2-loss Arkansas or Auburn team in the title game...even playing a 2 loss team though...gonna be a scramble if Louisville loses.
And of course don't forget my argument - if Louisville loses, and the Ohio State v. Michigan winner wins big (things identified by David as needing to happen), and USC wins out - then USC will have a damn good shot of finishing nearly unanimous as #2 in the computers (maybe 4 or 5 out of the 6). We probably need Auburn and Florida to lose to get close enough in the human polls to make it interesting but...never know, with victories like that pollsters could leapfrog us in the polls.
RUKiddinMe said:
posted on November 5, 2006 6:11 PM — 24.252.206.222 — link — abuse?
David post2- There is still a couple of games left to play, but i dont think ur gonna see Texas in the NC game for 2 reasons, Nebraska and Tex. Tec. games, they showed exactly where Texas is or should be! WVUFB97-At least give us a chance to cry before u start cryn 4 us. The Gators have already put in a equilly talented lineman in his place. Vandy. just showed they have heart and will be a big problem 4 alot of teams shortley. As 4 WV untill u get a D get back down where u came from. Im glad Loui. beat WV because they show respect by not doin alot of talking but just getting the job done (so far)!! Good luck to the rest of the B-East in your drive to the NC game!!!
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on November 5, 2006 6:34 PM — 68.18.60.190 — link — abuse?
UL Jumped over FL because they beat a strong WVU team and (it pains me to admit this!) FL struggled to beat a decent Vandy team with a poor record. Until the Gators pull it together on offense, the voters and the computers will continue to give "us" poor marks.
T-Mac said:
posted on November 5, 2006 6:36 PM — 66.78.164.162 — link — abuse?
Irish Jt, when Notre Dame starts winning the games that matter on their schedule then they will no longer get jumped over in the polls bro. SEE NOTRE DAME VERSUS MICHIGAN. You beat USC and that will do a lot for the Irish rankings. You can't choke in the big games and then whine about not being ranked high enough. Again, see NOTRE DAME VERSUS MICHIGAN. Take care of it on Saturday and you are ranked higher on Sunday. T-Mac
posted on November 5, 2006 6:50 PM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue said:
@IrishJT - Dude, I really hope your joking. The Irish have under-performed in their last few games. They've relied on simply outscoring opponents and winning on talent rather than actually shutting down a weaker opponent. A so-so win over North Carolina (North Freakin Carolina!) isn't impressing anyone - especially the computers. How 'bout the Irish quit letting weak teams hang around - then they might get some props.
Like it or not - "style" points count, especially with 2/3 of the BCS set to human polls.
GatorMatt said:
posted on November 5, 2006 6:58 PM — 65.213.191.153 — link — abuse?
WVUFB97,
Wow, you guys are really proud of beating sorry a$$ Georgia in the bowl game last year. Here's a newsflash: Georgia wasn't exactly a hot team last year, and their defense wasn't exactly something to write home about. I'm not saying Florida should be up there running for the National Title just yet, but I really think the teams from the Big East are getting boost simply b/c they play horrible teams and blow them out of the water, meanwhile teams like Tennessee, Florida, LSU, and Auburn beat each others a$$es week in and week out. I'm sure Chris Leak and Deshawn Wynn would be considered in your standards to be a superb backfield if they played powerhouse teams such as Marshall, East Washington, East Carolina, Syracuse, Maryland, and the SEC's retarded sister Mississippi State. Looks like your team is done for. And by the way, I watch about as much football as I can, Unfortunately I don't spend every minute of my Saturday analyzing games, I go out and see the sun shine
IrishJT said:
posted on November 5, 2006 7:22 PM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
TMAC & Kevin,
I would agree with everything that you've both said if it applied TO EVERYONE ELSE!!! Florida struggles with Georgia and Vandy...moves up (in fact, they jumped the Irish in the AP when they were idle). Florida also lost their "big game" against Auburn and barely beat a weakening Tennessee team. Texas has struggled in several games against non-top 20 competition (Texas Tech, Nebraska) and they lost their "Big Game" versus Ohio State. Auburn lost at home to Arkansas, but has struggled against Ole Miss, etc. USC has struggled all year. Tennessee struggled against Alabama...one of the weakest SEC teams this year who lost to THE weakest...MISS STATE, but Tennessee kept getting voted by the humans into the Top 10.My point is that none of the teams I mentioned were ever dinged for winning close games. Notre Dame has raised 2 spots in the human polls since their loss. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS??? At some point, you boys are going to have to admit that voters (not the media or BCS officials), yes voters, don't care for Notre Dame or their quarterback (who by the way is, and will finish, light years ahead of Troy Smith in talent AND stats whether he wins the Heisman or not). Southern and West Coast voters were raised to hate Notre Dame, educated to hate Notre Dame and now vote their obvious biases agins the Irish. I think this is very obvious when you compare the disparity between the computers (ND is #5) and the human polls (some voters are voting ND 20 or lower!!). What a joke? This is not a conspiracy theory...it's just horse sh@t!!!
ky nole said:
posted on November 5, 2006 7:48 PM — 74.130.64.229 — link — abuse?
How do they let these big east teams up there? Who have they played or beat? Any of them WVU, UL, Rutgers. They play each other given they are ranked and that is supposed to be something. Why is Rutgers not 3 or Boise St. What is the difference? The conference is weak as hell and they schedule soft out of conference games. No way any of them could compete in the SEC. You know that is the TRUTH. That is why there is a BCS. To give teams who play an impossible schedule the chance to be there with one loss. If they let UL in everyone will be scheduling weak out of conference games. The only reason the power schools have been playing tough out of conference games is because teams like Auburn go undefeated a few years ago and USC gets the championship. There will be no more TEXAS/OHIO ST games if UL makes it to the championship game. Give those big east schedules to anybody in the top ten and see where they would be now.
WVUFB97 said:
posted on November 5, 2006 7:56 PM — 68.57.171.167 — link — abuse?
RUKIdding ME,
I have not yet stated where WVU should be in the polls. We lost oh well. One thing we do in our conference is pull for each other if the other gets the loss. GO CARDS! This is what the nation wants two undefeated teams in the NC. You lose you go home just like we did. So SEC people get over it its not going to happen this yr. I'm hoping WVU stays at 1 loss and we get a suspect SEC Champ in a BCS again.
Another Black EYE to the SEC 3 Tenn. Players arrested.
posted on November 5, 2006 8:53 PM — link — abuse?
@IrishJT - Southern voters are dinging the Irish?
Here's a quick recap of some Southern AP Voters Ballots.
#10 - Jon Solomon Birmingham (AL) News
#8 - Bob Holt Arkansas Democrat
#7 - Susan Miller Degnan Miami Herald
#10 - David Jones Florida Today
#8 - Bob Thomas Florida Times Union
#7 - Adam Van Brimmer Savannah GA Morning News
#7 - Fred Cowgill WLKY-TV Louisville
#8 - Jim Kleinpeter New Orleans Times-Picayune
#9 - Scott Rabalais The Advocate Baton Rouge
#5 - Robbie Neiswanger ClarionLedger Jackson MS
#12 - Joe Giglio Raleigh News & Observer
#7 - Jeff Gravley WRAL-TV Raleigh NC
#11 - Ken Tysiac Charlotte (NC) Observer
#7 - Joe Person The State Columbia SC
#7 - Chris Low The Tennessean
#10 - Steve Phillips WBIR-TV Knoxville TN
#12 - Jeff White Richmond (VA) Times
#9 - Mitch Vingle Charleston WV GazetteTime to eat some crow on slamming southern voters.
hrposon said:
posted on November 5, 2006 11:17 PM — 24.167.63.164 — link — abuse?
I hope the BCS computers and voters remember that that Oregon really lost to Oklahoma and in the BCS, a one loss Oklahoma and a three loss Oregon can be significant in the race for this year's Mythical National Championship.
cardfan-in-Oklahoma said:
posted on November 5, 2006 11:17 PM — 70.233.150.194 — link — abuse?
Ky nole :
An excert from Louisville C-J colunmist
Eric CrawfordSince 2000, U of L has contacted every SEC school looking to play. Only Georgia has signed up, and the two will play starting in 2010. Vanderbilt recently backed out of a deal. Kentucky already plays the Cards. If U of L had played Florida’s schedule, it wouldn’t be unbeaten. Can’t deny it. But it must not be forgotten that none of those big, bad SEC programs — Florida included — had the juice to schedule the Cards. They wanted no part of settling it on the field. So now, it’ll be settled in the polls.
You should know what you're talking about before you open you're BIG MOUTH!!!
volstrike3 said:
posted on November 5, 2006 11:23 PM — 75.20.190.14 — link — abuse?
Irish JT,
You have to be kidding about UT fading. They have lost 2 games by a total of 5 points to two top 10 teams. They lost in the last minute to LSU with their #2 quarterback playing basically the entire game. LSU would manhandle ND with your 2nd team QB playing. Your team has played one top 25 teams and scraped by an average GT and got hammered by michigan. You gave up 26 points to an 0-8 North Carolina squad... That is shameful.
Also, for everyone bragging about WVA win over Georgia last year. They must not have watched that game. WVA caught some breaks and took a 28-0 lead in the first quarter, only to get outscored 35-10 for the next 3 quarters while barely holding on. It was not an impressive win at all. GA did not respect them and got punched in the mouth in the first quarter, but they were the better team by far. Saying WVA was better than Georgia is like saying Oregon State is a better team than USC.
David said:
posted on November 6, 2006 1:22 AM — 70.112.218.104 — link — abuse?
Irish JT:
Texas won 2 big games.
Red River Shootout vs. #14 OU (Remember Adrian Peterson?)
AT #17 Nebraska. That's in the top 20 since you didn't seem to be able to figure that one out. This game was in the snow with 30 mph winds. 95% of the players on the Texas team are from Texas and probably half had never seen snow never mind actually playing in it.
Colt McCoy has continued to improve and is now #2 on the CBS sportsline Heisman watch list (Ahead of your beloved Brady Quinn). Oh yeah... he's a FRESHMAN too.
Remaining opponents records:
Texas: 21-9 (.700)
Auburn: 12-8 (.600)
Florida: 20-16 (.556)
Notre Dame 14-12 (.538)Texas is behind by a bit in the computers but has a decent lead in the human polls over Aurbun and Flordia but with this future schedule Texas will improve and Florida and Auburn will get worse SOS.
This also shows why Notre Dame keeps getting jumped.
easternfan said:
posted on November 6, 2006 7:53 AM — 67.72.98.85 — link — abuse?
Man you guys from the SEC kill me sometimes. Sorry a$$ Georgia from last year? They had one of the best D's in the country. Kudos to UL!!!. If they win out they deserve the championship game and I hope WV gets to play one of your over- rated SEC teams in a bowl!
GATORGreg said:
posted on November 6, 2006 8:55 AM — 70.152.52.249 — link — abuse?
David Im going to have to disagree with you on the SOS. Really, the only team you have left to play is a battered Nebrask and TexA&M team. I think Florida's opponent in the SEC championship makes up for those two games alone. In addition we have to play a decent SC team. Im not going to even comment on FSU sorry season as this year we could have used them being decent.However Im going to have to agree with alot of people on here too, I absolutely dont think that Florida should be ranked as high as we are. Our offense is waayy to sorry to even be considered for a NC team. If Urban doesnt get his head out of his a$$ we wont be heading to any January bowl. The idiot seems to think winning is the only thing that matters.
Easternfan, you and WVUFB97 need to stop sleeping together because you both have sexually contracted retardism. You need to let the bowl game from last year go. Its done with and over, quit trying to throw it in peoples faces because you make yourselves look like idiots.Win a big game or two every year then you can start calling other teams out. As it stands right now you need not run your mouths and trash other teams because your arguments have no validity.
GatorMatt said:
posted on November 6, 2006 9:30 AM — 130.218.254.81 — link — abuse?
I completely agree with GatorGreg on this one. Florida does need to remind there offense that the game isn't over after the first half. As for Easternfan and WVUFB97, stop bitching because you team got exposed. Last years win against Georgia is looking pretty sweet right now with Georgia's impressive record, so keep holding on to that glory
ky nole said:
posted on November 6, 2006 10:15 AM — 74.138.147.240 — link — abuse?
You crack me up reciting the courier journal. That has to be the most biased paper around. The fact is Louisville isn't contacting all the SEC teams to play them, it just sounds good. By the way, Louisville doesn't benefit those schools with the exception of this year because of their ranking. Teams have been ranked and beat Louisville and nobody cares. You know why? Because the conference is terrible and they play nobody. Be happy you get Kentucky even though they suck. But before the season starts the Cats know they will be playing TWO top 10 teams and TWO more in the top 25. They could help your sorry team with upsets in the SEC, but you on the other hand only have WVU to offer. LOL what a joke. Nobody that is worth a damn needs to play you because you offer nothing. You play weak teams and win, so what Boise ST been doing it for years. Come to a real conference, with a conference championship and see where you are. I'm guessing right next to Kentucky. Also, tell me how tough the Little east is when the Cats kick that ass in basketball again. Maybe you can tell me what the courier says about it, LOL.
cardfan-in-Oklahoma said:
posted on November 6, 2006 11:58 AM — 70.233.149.40 — link — abuse?
Ky nole:
Can't handle the truth uh?
Why don't you prove we're not contacting SEC teams.
I guess you want us to come to the ACC right?
Did you not see what we did to Miami this year?
BEATDOWN!!!
I guess that's why Florida st. won't play us either!! Not after our(so called weak team in our weak conference Beat Them a couple of years ago!!)
Louisville has been ranked in the top 20 consistently for the past 6 years!!
So saying were just worth scheduling this year is a joke!!
And....SO ARE YOU!!!
And we'll see about the UK basketball game this year....We've got something for em!!!WVUFB97 said:
posted on November 6, 2006 12:04 PM — 199.64.0.252 — link — abuse?
Seriously! SEC Lovers.. Its ok..lol..I have not yet stated that the Big East is the Best Conference this year or any year. I have not stated at all that WVU or Louis. is the Best football team this year. Why do SEC Fans just get so upset? Im not holding onto any Bowl Game win. But all SEC Lovers (Gay) just can't get their heads out of their a$$. To understand just once that we r rebuilding. So what that we dont play a Title game. By the way SEC Lovers act. It almost seems to me that they have some very closed minds. These two teams WVU and UL are doing a great job in representing a conference on the rebound. GatorHeads SEC Lovers get over urselfs. The Cards will be a great representative of our conference this year and like the majority of the Nation besides a select few. They will succeed. Most WVU fans would agree.
To the Cards good luck and thanks for being respectful at the game... Which generated the 2nd highest rating in ESPN History...
David said:
posted on November 6, 2006 12:28 PM — 70.112.218.104 — link — abuse?
Here is the major reason Florida's SOS is going to plummet.
Sagarin ratings:
164. SHSU
216. Western CarolinaTexas played SHSU because they had to add a 12th game this year and no one wanted to play them. This is why Texas's computer ranking is HORRIBLE. When Florida plays Western Carolina, who is bad even for a D1-AA team their computer ranking is going to drop A LOT and Texas will have a comfortable lead.
ky nole said:
posted on November 6, 2006 1:53 PM — 74.138.147.240 — link — abuse?
I'm not a fan of any football team in the SEC. I am a FSU fan. Maybe UL beat Miami, so what they suck this year. UL beat FSU a few years ago when they were decent and UL sucked. You have 6 years in the top 25. Who cares. How many ranked teams have you beat in those 6 years? What BCS game were you in? Motor City Bowl was out of sympathy. You can take your shots at the noles, but how many times have you beat us? I think some of your worse losses came from FSU. When you beat us in 2002, that game was of no benefit to us if we had won because we still had a shot at the championship after that loss. Please the last thing the ACC needs is a sorry Louisville program to drag us down. I think Florida St speaks for itself with or without a bad season. 14 years in the top 5, played for the national championship almost as many times as UL went to bowl games, this is the first time we have lost more than two games in the ACC since it started, your program is a joke. Kiss Bobby Petrino bye when he relizes that even if you go undefeated you won't get the championship unless you play somebody. I'll tell you that FSU seldomly leaves the south to play anyone, especially mediocre teams. I'll also tell you that I am a booster of some importance there and UK and these deals are made every few years so that we don't stuck into playing a nobody for 4 or 5 years. They are just money games for the weak team trying to build a program. It is all based on program perception and the benefit to the schools. A lot of schools see no benefit in playing UL. These programs are built we have nothing to prove. Our HISTORY ( which you have none ) speaks for itself. Even with Miami and FSU having terrible years, your team and everyone else's will be down there fighting for our leftovers when it comes to recruiting. You know the truth and I know the truth. Hell, your fans are just now starting to stay through the whole game. As far as basketball, remember UK made Rick Pitino. We won championships before and we won championships after. Just like Louisville going after leftovers. Bring all your over-rated, new york players so we can kick that ass ONE MORE TIME. Just another day at the office. There's some TRUTH for you.
ky nole said:
posted on November 6, 2006 2:21 PM — 74.138.147.240 — link — abuse?
David,
Florida may get a boost depending on FSU at the end of the year. They will also get major props if they win the SEC championship game against another top 10 team. If they have a blowout, which I doubt, that could move them right back to 3 possibly 2 depending on the OHIO ST / MICHIGAN game.David said:
posted on November 6, 2006 3:51 PM — 70.112.218.104 — link — abuse?
ky nole,
I don't think you understand how much playing the #216 team in the country is going to hurt their computer rankings.
Remember this post when the BCS rankings come out after that game.
Texas is .630 in the computers and Florida is .810
Florida is going to drop at least .100 when they play Western Carolina.
wareagle524 said:
posted on November 6, 2006 4:26 PM — 63.162.187.42 — link — abuse?
Does anyone really think that Louisville's so-so defense could stop a powerhouse like Ohio St.?
Difference here being that OSU is a threat on offense and with the way they have been playing recently, shut a team out on D.
DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.
I love offensive games just as much as the next fan, but if that is all you can bring to the table it may as well come with lube...because that a$$ is getting waxed!IrishJT said:
posted on November 6, 2006 5:03 PM — 65.83.54.4 — link — abuse?
VT Bobb...pay attention. I'm talking about voters in the AP & Coaches polls, not media bias.
Kevin, while your post is accurate, there is a bit more to it that maybe we ought to examine a bit more closely. Keep in mind the computers have Notre Dame tied for 5th currently and you seem to have conveniently forgotten that I was ragging on southern & west coast voters.
Jon Solomon: Birmingham News...right in the heart of SEC & Crimson Tide country. Has Notre Dame ranked 10th behind 2-loss LSU. Hmm.
Kevin Pearson: Riverside Cal Press-Enterprise...right in the heart of PAC 10 country, had WVU ranked #1 last week. Has two-loss LSU & Tennessee right behind 10th ranked ND.
Jon Wilner & Bob Withers: Both PAC 10 writers, in fact have written books about PAC 10 schools. Wilner has ND #13...NUMBER 13 FOR GOD'S SAKE...and Withers has the Irish at #12. Both have Notre Dame behind two-loss teams LSU & Tenn, sandwiching the Irish with two-loss Oklahoma at #14. Amazingly, Cal & USC are in top 9.
David Jones & Bob Thomas (2 Florida papers): Both SEC/ACC writers, both have 5 SEC teams in their top 15. Irish are 10th.
Jim Kleinpeter, NOLA Picayune Times: Has 5 SEC teams in top 12, with Irish at 8. 2 loss LSU is 10th & 2 loss Tenn is 12th. Come on!!!!!
Scott Rabalais, Advocate Baton Rouge: Has 5 SEC teams in top 13 and Irish at 9.
Jason Whitlock aka "Big Sexy": Grew up in Indy and didn't get recruited by Irish (fact). Hates Notre Dame and has said so on PTI with Wilbon. Votes the Irish #13 BEHIND two-loss LSU & Tenn (5 SEC teams in top 12).
Joe Giglio, Raleigh News: Votes Irish #12 behind 2-loss LSU.
Ken Tysiac, Charlotte Observer: Votes Irish #11, just in front of LSU & Tenn.
Joey Goodman, Lawton OK Constitution: Irish #12, behind West Virginia & 2-loss LSU.
John Hoover, Tulsa World: Irish #12. 2-loss LSU at 6. Texas is #3. 2-loss Oklahoma is #13. Joke.
Aaron Fentress, The Oregonian: Votes Wisconsin #9, West Va #10, ND #11. Hmmm.
Steve Phillips, WBIR-TV in Knoxville, TN & graduate of the University of Alabama: Has all 5 SEC teams in Top 14 and 2-loss LSU at #9, the Irish at #10. USC is at #11...mindboggling.
Tim Griffin, San Antonio Express: Voted ND #9 on October 8th...now has them #13 5 wins later. Of course, 2-loss Tenn & LSU are #10 and #11. Joke.
Craig James, CBS: Went to SMU, a Southwest Conference school, lives in Texas, has Texas #3 and Notre Dame behind 2-loss LSU (#8) at #13. Also sits next to Flutie, who hates the Irish.
Stewart Mandel, SI.com: Need I say more. Bashes the Irish and Quinn on a weekly basis. Has Notre Dame ranked #13 behind Tenn & LSU.
Again, the computers have the Irish at #5. Kevin, you've succeeded in helping me make my point. The Irish are being stonewalled by southern & west coast voters, more often than not being ranked behind one or two 2-loss teams. That's home cookin' horse shit...and you NOW KNOW IT!!
Still think I need to eat crow? Being right is a pretty good reason to complain.
cardfan-in-Oklahoma said:
posted on November 6, 2006 5:14 PM — 70.233.149.40 — link — abuse?
Ky nole:
You wouldn't know the TRUTH if it bit you in the ASS!!
How many ranked teams have we played in those 6 years....It's kind of hard to beat them when there scared to play you!! Or in your words:
( A lot of schools see no benefit in playing UL. These programs are built we have nothing to prove. Our HISTORY ( which you have none ) speaks for itself.)
How about PROVING your good enough to play for the national championship this year!!
Seems to me FSU and many other old boy network schools would benefit greatly by playing the #3 team in the land!! If you are like you say you are:(I am a booster of some importance there and UK)why don't you use your great influence and tell the FSU AD to put UofL back on it's schedule!!!We would take that game in a new york minute,then it would be settled on the field and not by some jackass posting on a blog!!!
If our sorry ass team(as you say) was in the ACC maybe they wouldn't suck so bad this year!!!Especially FSU!!!That's THE TRUTH!
As far as Ky winning Championships after Pitino left, Tubby won with Pitino recruited players and that's a fact jack and YOU KNOW IT!!
He hasn't done shit since then!!!
YOU just keep talking your talk and Bragging about what your team's have done in the past.
That's about all you have to hold on to and I'm sure that helps you sleep at night!
Quit hating on Louisville because there Football and Basketball programs are on the way UP
and KY & FSU are on the way DOWN!
There's the HARD TRUTH FOR YA!!!
PARTNER!!cardfan-in- Oklahoma said:
posted on November 6, 2006 5:31 PM — 70.233.149.40 — link — abuse?
wareagle524:
I Defintly think Louisville could limit a powerhouse like OSU!!
Our defense is better than what people think!!
Don't judge us off the WVU game....There offense would make alot of defense's look bad including OSU!! Ask GEORIGA!!AU03 said:
posted on November 6, 2006 5:38 PM — 205.255.224.10 — link — abuse?
IrishJT, I've only read one sentence of #39, and I think you need to be reminded that the AP voters ARE the media, so if you have a beef with the AP voters, then you have a beef with the media's "bias."
I have now read the rest of your statement, and my initial assessment was correct. However, half of this "biases" you mention have Notre Dame ahead of teams like LSU and Tennessee, so I don't really see what you're trying to do there.
You seem to have too much time on your hands- if ND beats USC, the rankings will take care of themselves.
And once again, the AP has NOTHING to do with the BCS.
posted on November 6, 2006 5:41 PM — link — abuse?
@IrishJT - I guess where we disagree is that you think the Irish are ranked too low, whereas I think these rankings are completely justified.
BigWarEagle said:
posted on November 6, 2006 6:52 PM — 67.34.195.148 — link — abuse?
If anyone out there reading this has a vote, please vote Notre Dame number 2 or hell, even number 1 so IrishJT will quit crying. Also, if they got to play in the NC game they would be totally humiliated and I would love to see that. Whoops, there goes that southern bias in me. With such a bias out there, how was Notre Dame atop of many preseason polls? Stop your whining and concentrate on getting by that powerhouse Air Force.
IrishJT said:
posted on November 6, 2006 6:53 PM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
Kevin,
I am surprised to hear you say that, especially since more than a few of these AP voters have two 2-loss teams in front of Notre Dame and some have those two 2-loss teams in front of USC. THAT IS BIAS TOWARDS SOUTHERN TEAMS. How anyone can justify that is beyond me. The computers would certainly disagree with you, but I respect your opinion nonetheless.For you other folks, there are two types of media: there are the sportswriters and columnists who control the polls with their manifestos (AP, USA Today, etc) AND there are those on the business side of the media who pick teams to be on TV or in bowl games based on revenue. The former hates Notre Dame. One of the reasons is because the latter loves Notre Dame and its fan base and the dollar$$ ND generates.
So there is media bias in favor and in disgust of the Irish. Fact.
IrishJT said:
posted on November 6, 2006 7:05 PM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
AU03,
While you are correct that the AP is no longer factored in to the BCS, since coaches read the news and wonder if everyone thinks they're crazy, they do read the other polls. The AP DOES SHAPE THE THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS OF COACHES. I'll cite Wisconsin as an example for you to look at over the next three weeks. The AP has them, in some cases, in the Top 7. The BCS coaches portion will start bumping them up from #15 as well. Just wait and see.GatorMatt said:
posted on November 6, 2006 7:15 PM — 65.213.191.153 — link — abuse?
I've noticed that almost everyone who is a Big East fan has to justify that they are a good conference, and cannot do so with logic. All they can seem to do is say that WVU beat Georgia in the Sugar bowl by a whopping 3 points. If everyone but fans of WVU and Louisville think the Big Least is crap, doesn't that all but make it true?
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 6, 2006 7:34 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
WarEagle524:
Yeh, I just saw Illinois hold Ohio State to seventeen points. It wasn't the 1st time that Ohio State has struggled this year. They have looked very good against some real bad teams. Iowa doesn't look very significant now. They caught Texas while Colt McCoy was starting only his 2nd game. Granted, and I do beleive, that Ohio State is the #1 team in the land. But, they are not so good that somebody like Louisville (or numerous other good teams), couldn't knock them off. I'll tell you what. LSU would beat Ohio State tomorrow. But, LSU will never get to play against Ohio State. I don't think Michigan can beat Ohio State (I think they're way overranked) - otherwise you would get to see either California or USC take them out in the Rose Bowl. Ohio State has not played a good team in a long time. It'll be a real long time come January. They will not win the National Championship. There are several teams that might beat them today, including: LSU, Louisville, California, USC and Texas. These teams are all closing in on Ohio State.
Tommie T
BigEastfan said:
posted on November 6, 2006 8:00 PM — 68.185.104.117 — link — abuse?
Ky nole,
Seems like we only have to go back to last year's Sugar Bowl to see a good Big East team play a good SEC team... forgot how that ended.. ooops I remember.. WVU 38 Georgia 35?
With the vanunted SOS that you keep talking about, I seem to have in mind that Stanford probably has the one of the strongest schedules in the country...
Like it or not, the Big East is growing and becoming stronger across the board. Teams like Louisville, WVU, Rutgers, and Pitt are quite competitive compared to any conference. You can live in denial or play us and prove your point. Never mind, Georgia did.
ky nole said:
posted on November 6, 2006 8:24 PM — 74.138.147.240 — link — abuse?
How far in the past do you want to go? Last year maybe when FSU was in a BCS game with 5 losses. You were where? That's what I thought. By the way, what have you done this year. All I hear is how you beat Miami. A team that you insulted before you played them, given you lost that game last year. We won't be playing for the championship this year we all know. You won't either undefeated or not. That is the difference. Once again, of course you would play us and anybody because it benefits your sorry program to play us. Everyone knows us and what we are about. The Truth remains you bring nothing for us. Just for truth sake why don't you tell us UL's record against FSU all time. That's right you won't say because it proves my point. Out of 100 times you might win 1. UL fans are all the same talk about today forget about tomorrow. Well remember this we missed it 1 time you have been close 1 time. What have Pitino's players done lately. I think the last two times you saw the CATS, it was Tubby's players kicking your ass. Just like this time. Keep dreaming. It is good to look up to programs such as these. It will give you a goal. Go Rutgers, LOL. Rutgers who knew they even had football?
wareagle524 said:
posted on November 6, 2006 8:25 PM — 63.162.187.42 — link — abuse?
Tommie T and Card fan in Oklahoma,
I am only stating my opinion of the defense. You both put up very good points, some I agree with and others obviously I dont. As for the Okie Cardinal fan all I really have to base there defense on is the WVU game. That is there biggest opponent and only top 10 team they played this year. What else do I have to go on? The rest of the Big East? OOC opponents?
The Bucks did have a tough one this weekend, they had a tough time with UC an in state rival.
As for Texas and it being Colt's 2nd start, that is just too bad, winners step up and that is what he has done since then.
As for Louisville they also barely beat UC (Cincinnati)and they have had good defensive ballgames...too bad it was against temple and Mid -Tenn state. I guess you could add The U in there too but they suck this year so doesnt really count.One thing I am sure we can all agree on is this will be a wild ride till the end.
Card fan- as for Georgia...I hate them and am glad they suck this year, so I wont be asking them about anything!
WAR EAGLE! BEAT BAMMER!So Cal Clippers said:
posted on November 6, 2006 8:33 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
BCS Ratings (4 of 6 Consensus):
1. Michigan
2. Ohio St
3. Louis
4. Cal Berkeley
5. Florida
6. Notre Dame
7. USC
8. Auburn
9. Rutgers
10. Texas
11. Wisconsin
12. Boise St
13. Arkansas
14. West Virginia
15. LSU
16. Tennessee
17. Oklahoma
18. GTech
19. Oregon
20. Wake
21. Oregon St
22. Boston College
23. Maryland
24. ???Washington St/Clemson/Penn St/BYU/aTm???
25. VTechSo Cal Clippers said:
posted on November 6, 2006 9:11 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Louie's got pretty decent 'traction' left on their schedule to fend-off the rest of the "contenders"... Rutgers is 8-0, So Flo is 6-3, Pitts is 6-3
Florida... *Arkansas is 8-1 (SEC-CG?), and not much else (FSU and SoCarol are each a lame 5-4)
Texas... aTm is 8-2, Kansas St is 6-4, *Nebraska is 7-3 (*XII-CG?)
Auburn... Geo is 6-4, Bama is 6-4, *Florida is 8-1 (*SEC-CG?)
**Rutgers... Louie is 8-0, West VU is 7-1**
Arkansas... Tenny is 7-2, LSU is 7-2, *Florida is 8-1 (*SEC-CG?)
USC... Cal is 8-1, Notre Dame is 8-1, Oregon is 7-2
It looks like USC has the most traction left on their schedule... the rest of em dont quite have the SOS left to move up past Louie at this point if Louie DOESNT lose (ei, Notre Dame, Cal Berkeley, Rutgers, Boise St). Rutgers would be doing themselves, and everybody else, a favor if they beat**Louie.
Boise St (9-0)... San Jose St is 6-2, Reno is 6-3
Looks like Boise State will be in a BCS Bowl.So Cal Clippers said:
posted on November 6, 2006 9:21 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
TMac, IrishTJ has a point (sorta)...
Notre Dame is Ranked No. 6 based on the Consensus Ratings. Whereas a team like TEXAS (which also got rolled by Ohio St) is Rated No. 10... Texas is Over-Ranked by the "Polls", and Notre Dame is a bit Under-Ranked.
IrishJT said:
posted on November 6, 2006 9:40 PM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
Big War Eagle,
How was that big game against Arkansas State last weekend? How about Buffalo? Tulane? SEC schools, especially the once-bitten-by-the-Citadel Auburn Tigers, should really quiet themselves when talking about other teams playing weaker teams. Notre Dame does not play any team approaching the woeful skill level of Buffalo.I'm an Auburn fan...was the biggest fan at the Florida game. My wife went to Auburn. I went to ND. We both can't stand Alabama fans. However, you're dead wrong to discount southern bias among coaches and sportswriters. They are born and bred on particular flavor of football and if you don't sweeten your tea, you don't get in their top 10.
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on November 6, 2006 9:40 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
K-Hue,
How is a team like Texas that much more "impressive" ??? -- applying the same reasoning that you use with Notre Dame... Texas got Rolled by Ohio St, all-but-lost to Nebraska and TTech, allowed 31 to Baylor, etc. And its not just ND or Texas, they(the contenders) have all demonstrated flaws, inconsistency, 'let-down', etc, this season.And BTW, Computers say (Consensus, 4/6):
Notre Dame is No. 6
Texas is No. 10____________
IrishTJ, Notre Dame was 9th last week werent they? And theyre 9th This Week too. It was Louisville too, that replaced WestVU over Noter Dame
cardfan-in-Oklahoma said:
posted on November 6, 2006 9:51 PM — 70.233.157.158 — link — abuse?
wareagle524:
You have to forgive me....I know I probally think Louisville is better than they really are.
But,as a life long Cardinal fan we have NEVER been in the position that we are in this year! It feels great! We have had good teams in the past but,joining the Big East gives us at least the possibilty to play for the National Championship, something in our past conferences was never there...no matter how good we were!
There is alot of football left to play and who know's what will happen.
I'm just really enjoying were our program is today! Seemingly everyone in the country talking about US! Not being a traditional powerhouse I've had to eat alot of shit my whole life.
It feels so great to give some back for a change.
Where everything plays out will be settled on the field...just as it should be and I totally agree with you it's going to a WILD RIDE!!
Starting Thursday!By the way.... NO way... NO how... am I an OKIE!
Just had to move here for a job.
It's hard getting thru the day here with these OU fans.
They think the Sooners are the greatest thing since sliced bread.Every Year!
No Offense Sooner fans!(I love your passion)
WIN or LOSE......................................
My heart and spirit will always in Louisville,Ky.GO CARDS!!!
"THE" BUCKEYE MARK said:
posted on November 6, 2006 10:22 PM — 70.62.161.114 — link — abuse?
Irish JT is the most biased blogger I have ever read on here Notre Dame isn't a BCS bowlteam this year but they will lose in a BCS bowl game AGAIN just go pray to Touchdown Jesus to move up in the polls I'll be eating Cheeseburgers
IrishJT said:
posted on November 6, 2006 10:24 PM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
SOCALCLIPPER,
That's my point...the Irish remain 9th in the BCS every week, even though they win and teams in front of them lose. It isn't the computers, it's the coaches who are reading their polls and they are reading the AP polls. West Coast & Southern sportswriters/coaches HATE Notre Dame. It is no wonder that they have chosen the likes of Florida, Tennessee, Cal, etc. to leapfrog the Irish (Cal I could actually live with).Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 6, 2006 10:31 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
These are my rankings, usings Jeff Sagarin's computer model to assess all head to head competition, based on what the Top Team (Ohio State) would have done against the same competion. The number all the way to the right indicates, on average, how far each team falls short of Ohio State on a per game average. Therefore, you can take that number and add or subtract 2.75 points for a home field advantage, and determine who would beat who (and by how many points) in the average game.
1. Ohio State (10-0) 34.0-7.6 (-0.00)
2. L.S.U. (7-2) 35.0-10.0 (-1.23)
3. Louisville (8-0) 39.4-15.3 (-3.27)
4. California (8-1) 36.3-19.7 (-3.65)
5. U.S.C. (7-1) 31.6-15.4 (-4.59)
6. Texas (9-1) 39.2-15.7 (-4.80)
7. West Virginia (7-1) 40.0-16.6 (-5.27)
8. Clemson (7-3) 35.9-13.7 (-7.04)
9. Michigan (10-0) 28.9-13.0 (-9.79)
10. Oregon (7-2) 36.3-22.8 (-10.10)
11. Florida (8-1) 26.3-13.0 (-10.30)
12. B.Y.U. (7-2) 34.4-14.2 (-10.54)
13. Boise State (9-0) 40.3-16.7 (-10.79)
14. Wisconsin (9-1) 30.4-11.9 (-11.30)
15. Oklahoma (7-2) 29.3-15.2 (-11.75)
16. Auburn (9-1) 26.8-11.5 (-12.12)
17. Tennessee (7-2) 31.3-20.1 (-12.38)
18. Rutgers (8-0) 29.3-9.1 (-13.39)
19. Nebraska (7-3) 34.2-17.7 (-13.45)
20. Virginia Tech (7-2) 27.2-11.8 (-14.21)
21. Boston College (7-2) 25.9-15.6 (-15.20)
22. Oregon State (6-3) 27.6-20.1 (-15.26)
23. Notre Dame (8-1) 31.7-22.1 (-15.95)
24. Washington State (6-4) 24.9-19.5 (-16.14)
25. Arkansas (8-1) 30.8-15.8 (-17.65)These are pure "Power Rankings". These are the best teams in the country based on what they average every single game. It is not surprising to me that Michigan, Florida, Auburn and Notre Dame are grossly overranked. These teams will all lose big somewhere down the line. By the way - Louisville will certainly give Ohio State a game should they play. LSU will not get to play Ohio State. Ohio State will beat Michigan by around +13 points. USC will clobber Notre Dame by around +16. USC will be about a +2 favorite over California at home. These rankings do take into consideration who you played (SOS), how much you won or lost by, and where the game was played. "Style Points" are definately included. This is not a watered down version of "who I think is good" based on who I like. These are what the numbers say is happening so far this year. Some of you won't like it - but, this is the way it really is. Misconceptions are a real bummer!
Tommie T
Tomcat said:
posted on November 6, 2006 10:59 PM — 66.142.88.191 — link — abuse?
To JT Irish quit whining and play ball
The game is played on the feild, Texas has not played in two big games,no two big games.
Every Game is a Big game with the exception of SHSU which was good for experience of younger players.
Thank Goodness we played Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and not Oregon State or Washington
Notre Dame fans better focus on the rest of their schedule and forget about polls for now,
same goes for USC fans Hookem-Horns
cardfan-in-Oklahoma said:
posted on November 6, 2006 11:28 PM — 70.233.157.158 — link — abuse?
Ky nole:
1)Last year we were in the Gator Bowl.(Barely lost to VT with our back-up freshman QB playing)
2)You must have been a cave this last week...we just beat WVU... the #3 team in the nation.
3)We were just voted #3 in the nation in the BCS.
4)WE did not insult #15 Miami... it was the other way around...ASK ANYONE!!
5)We don't need FSU on our schedule anymore....
Were #3 in the nation and in great shape to get to the national championship game.
6)I did some research....Louisville's all-time record is 2-13 against Florida St. We first played in 1952 which UL won. We last played in 2002 which UL won. Florida St. won the 13 in between.So your point is what?
7)Pitino's 2005 team went to the final four!
When was the last time UK even got that far....That's what I thought!!
8)I'll give it to UK...Last year they soundly beat a One senior... rebuilding Louisville team.The year before that...They got a lucky brake when sparks hit a 3-pointer at the last second when his foot was clearly on the line.
9)I not dreaming the fact is........... Louisville is in the spotlight...probally the reason your here posting on this site!AND FINALLY
10)There is no way in hell I would look up to KENTUCKY'S SORRY ASS FOOTBALL TEAM or FLORIDA STATE'S SORRY ASS BASKETBALL TEAM!!!I'LL TAKE LOUISVILLE'S PROGRAM ANYDAY WHERE WERE HIGHLY COMPETETIVE IN BOTH SPORT'S!!!!!
AND YOU'RE STILL A JACKASS!!
How is it anyway you cheer for 2 different schools? You must jump on the bandwagon depending on who's winning I bet!!!
The Mayor said:
posted on November 6, 2006 11:59 PM — 67.174.192.148 — link — abuse?
Tomcat
Are you high?
"Thank Goodness we played Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and not Oregon State or Washington"
OK, OU is rated #17 but Oregon State is rated #24, where is Oklahoma State rated???? Why bring up Washington?
"Texas has not played in two big games,no two big games." What the hell does that mean? I am not even sure what your point is tonite?
I agree that Irish JT is whining like a Stoops brother, but I don't get your point????
Tomcat said:
posted on November 7, 2006 2:02 AM — 66.142.88.191 — link — abuse?
Sorry for the confusion Mr.Mayor
No I'm completely sober, It was a poor atempt at sarcasm.Certain trojan fan and SEC fan saying that Texas had a weak SOS etc.etc.
I really dont know what Oklahoma St. is ranked right now, I do know that they Whuped up on Nebraska.They have a real tough offense.
Texas beat Ok St. and it was a Big game.
Mr.Mayor I'm just tired of these ignorant guys looking at ones schedule and saying something like that junk. Every Game is important not just two. They keep on and on like a broken record.
We have the toughest conference in the USA. there are no gimme games, except for maybe a SHSU.
USC will probably lose another one either Oregon, Cal or ND.
Texas faces K-State, A&M and maybe Neb again.
Cant count you chickens before they hatch.
The Big East is real interesting this year, I'm happy for Rutgers and Louisville.
I saw the Louisville vs Miami and Louiville vs Kentucky and parts of the K-State game.Good solid team.I just dont believe any of those teams would be undefeated in the Big XII.
Hookem-Horns Go Ducks Go Scarlet KnightsIrishJT said:
posted on November 7, 2006 8:57 AM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
Tomcat/Mayor/others,
I love how you all are quick to dismiss my point about southern/west coast sportswriters as "whining" but do not actually have a counter-point. Texas is severely over-rated, but Tomcat doesn't care 'cause he's a Texas fan. OK. But if he had any integrity at all, he'd have to admit that I have a point. Mayor, I'm disappointed you couldn't see it either.The fact that NONE of you have been able to justify the AP voters' rank of the Irish leads me to believe that you all tacitly agree that there is a voter bias AGAINST Notre Dame, which transfers over into the BCS via the coaches' votes. It's just that you don't care, which really means that you could care less about the integrity of the sport, college sports and finding out who the best team really is.
Texas won't play 2 top 15 teams this year and there are NONE in the Big12. I couldn't believe people got so excited about beating Oklahoma State...whoopity doo!! But I guess that is a big game for Texas, who will be exposed in the BCS Bowl game they trickle into.
IrishJT said:
posted on November 7, 2006 9:18 AM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
Tomcat,
No team in the Big12 is undefeated and only one team has only one loss. That's one of the reasons that the Big12 sucks so bad as a conference. Didn't Colorado win the North last year? If Nebraska wins this year, it will be another non-top15 team playing from the North Division. Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas are about the same as Louisville, WVU and Rutgers...maybe not that bad, BUT BAD NONETHELESS. It ain't Auburn, FLorida, Arkansas, Tenn, LSU, etc., etc. OR Mich, OSU, Wisconsin OR Cal, USC, Oregon. I'm not even sure it is comparable to Wake, Maryland and BC/Clemson.Big 12 is a one team conference right now. Face it.
AU03 said:
posted on November 7, 2006 11:27 AM — 205.255.224.10 — link — abuse?
Tommie T, you put way too much stock in Jeff Sagrain's rankings. Misconceptions are a bummer, yes, and for you to suggest that you are correct in any of this is a COMPLETE misconception- there are too many things that computer rankings cannot take into account, which is why 2/3's of the BCS is human. Apparently, your rankings don't take into account W's and L's very well (or head-to-head competition, which is what it's supposed to predict in the first place).
According to those rankings, LSU would beat us by almost double digits- that's hard to do when you can only manage a FG.
If you think 8 or 9 games for each team is enough data to make a remotely accurate prediction of future games, then you need to put back on your tinfoil hat and do some reflecting.
Many complain that Coaches & Harris poll ballots aren't made public- what about computer ranking formulas? Do they not deserve to be scrutinized, too?
Looking at the Sagarin rankings- who is the only team with multiple wins vs. its own Top 10? Auburn- and they're ranked 11. That should tell you something right there. I'm not saying Auburn is a Top-5 team (although the voters think so), but these rankings don't even value themselves. Apparently running up the score on inferior competition is more important (see Cal, Texas) than beating "superior" competition.
Apparently the BCS sees this, too, which is why they don't even use the "predictor" element in the BCS standings- the one you value so much.
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 7, 2006 3:57 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Tommy T, if youre gonna go that route (hypothetical heads-up matchups), forget Sagarin... refer directly to the odds-makers (Las Vegas or off-shore books). There's a sorta consensus list that the Las Vegas Review Journal publishes each week, a'la the AP & Coaches Polls, that ranks the teams based on the different sportsbooks.
RUKiddinMe said:
posted on November 7, 2006 4:39 PM — 24.252.206.222 — link — abuse?
Tomcat, I cant believe u didnt appreciate my remarks concerning Texas. I didnt exactly trash them but just stated that they are suspect to me. If u would like, Ill elaborate on my statement a little. These are your "opponants";N. Texas?, tOSU, Rice?, Iowa St.?, SHS???, Okla. 28-10, Baylor 63-31??, Neb. (Lucky)22-20, TT (Lucky)35-31???, Oka. St., Kan. St., Tex.A&M. Right now, u have and will play 3 top 25 ranked teams!! From the looks of how they preformed, anyone from 16 up could beat Texas at any moment now! In reality Texas lost that game w/ Neb., sheer luck got them outta that mess. So, dont throw my little turds out so fast, just read them and let them sink in for a while. I know they taste bad to start with but the truth isnt always so easy to swallow! Texas is a good team w/ lots of potential, just give it another year or so!!! Lord knows I will be w/ UF. As far as your conf. being the toughest, looks like u should check again!
RUKiddinMe said:
posted on November 7, 2006 4:49 PM — 24.252.206.222 — link — abuse?
Tommy T, Looks like your #s have really got the best of u! Take out all the Weak Teams (below .500)and see where your #s go from there!!! Ill say it again all these fancifull #s are MEANINGLESS when your playing 10 Bowling Greens and 2 decent games all year long!!! If your sched. is loaded w/ weak opp. then u should have a lower ranking. Or should everyone sched. weak opp. so there can be 10 or 15 undefeateds each and every year?!?!?!? U cant have the respect u want, win or lose, if u dont play anyone 4 it.....
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 7, 2006 4:54 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
So Cal USMC:
There isn't anything hypothetical about it at all. It's based on actual results on the field. Then and only then is it compared to what Ohio State's rating is. This only serves to give you a sense of how far ahead of the field OSU is - and it is not by much. There are no truly dominate teams this year and several that can win it all.
As for using a betting line to calculate team strength, you know as well as I do, that that is ridiculous. The betting line is based only on what the house would construe to be the popular perception. They only want to balance the money on either side of the betting line and take 10% off the top. For instance, if the house opened up with USC favored by +15 over Notre Dame, too much money will swing over to the Notre Dame side. If Notre Dame failed to lose by the whole 15 then the house would lose alot of money. Likewise, if Ohio State opens with a +12 over Michigan - then too much money will swing Michigan's way. No, these lines will open up with each team being favored by about +7. The smart money would take Ohio State and Michigan in these games because they know that the other two are grossly overrated. No, your idea is not technically sound for trying to determine who really are the best teams. I'm attempting to point out, without any bias whatsoever, who the most talented teams (week in and week out) are in the country. And, furthermore, I am sure that it is very close. That's how I knew that Louisville would take out West Virginia and that LSU would beat Tennessee. Of course, Ainge going down didn't hurt and Slaton dropping the ball all over the field helped also. Nevertheless, on average, is all we can hope to achieve. Anything can happen on any Saturday.Tommie T
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on November 7, 2006 4:55 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Tommy T,
What a team Has ACCOMPLISHED is different than what a team would hypothetically-be-able-to-accomplish-if-they-had-the-same-schedule-as-another-team.
For the 2005-06 season, Sagarin's "power" Ratings, I believe had the Dallas Mavericks, San Antonio Spurs, Detroit Pistons, and Phoenix Suns all Rated Higher than the Miami Heat, er, The NBA Champions.
Also, I wonder where Sagarin's "power" Ratings had (coincidently) Ohio State the National Champs of 2002 rated -- Ohio St was limping its way through mediocre competition in terms of Margin of Victory, er, "Style Points" that year, on their way to winning the National Title...
Sagarin's 2002 College Football "Predictor" Ratings (AFTER the BOWLS were Played!):
1. Kansas St (11-2)
2. USC (11-2)
3. Oklahoma (10-2)
4. Miami (12-1)
5. Texas (11-2)
6. Geo (13-1)
7. Iowa (11-2) w/Rating of 88.26
8. Ohio State (14-0) w/Rating of 87.79
9. Penn St (9-4) w/Rating of 87.47Those Power Ratings based on "Style Points" dont reperesent what a team has Earned by way of WINS and LOSSES, you know, based on what Actually Matters. Misconceptions are a b!tch.
Tomcat said:
posted on November 7, 2006 5:13 PM — 70.245.21.0 — link — abuse?
If anybody has a legitimate complaint about the rankings, it should be Boise State not Notre Dame.
Boise State although playing in the WAC have defeated a good TCU team and smashed Oregon State.
That same Oregon State team that beat USC.
Really if any team is to be deemed fortunate in their rankings it would be USC.
Football is a team sport played on the feild every Saturday.Week end and week out you have to
defeat quality opposition thus earning your spot.
post #57 I guess we werent watching the same game.What I saw was a hard fought game against a number one team, that could have went either way.
Got rolled? as far the others Neb and TTech, Texas won those.They were better victories than USC vs Wash or USC vs Wash St.I guess you didn't see the Oklahoma game or the Ok St. game.
I'll admit yall did win decisively over Stanford congrats. Hookem-Horns
Irish fans you can start complaining after the USC game good luck against Air Force they are pretty tough this year.
Congradulations
TCU over UNLV
Houston over Tulsa
Rice over UTEP
Kentucky over Ga.
VTech over Miami
SMU over UAB
Miss St. over Alabama
Wake over B.C.
Maryland over Clemson
Oregon over Wash
Texas over Ok St.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 7, 2006 5:37 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Just to clarify. Any kind of rankings cannot determine any number of other characteristics of all kinds of sports. That is why people would "bet a hunch". It cannot figure the injury factor, the amount of "heart" that a team may be able to reach down and pull out, the amount of improvement from one group to another, who is gonna fumble, who is gonna throw the interception, etcetra etcetera. Rankings are not made to be the gospel. They play the games for that reason. My rankings only are showing what has already taken place. What happens tomorrow is anybody's guess. I was not intending to get into any debate about anything at all. If you don't like those facts - then don't consider them. If I was gonna bet money on a game though - I would like to know what the facts were. I made my bets based on what the facts are. I know who has a possibility of beating someone and who does not - for the most part. I'm only saying that the numbers seem to indicate that some teams might be overranked and some may be underranked. I am surprised by how well BYU is doing. They have been very quietly rolling over every team lately. Boise State is right where they are supposed to be. Clemson should probably be ranked higher as should LSU. But, all of the polls and everything that you are seeing, is geared toward crowning a National Champion. There will be a whole lot more games played than that here pretty soon. When Bowl season rolls around - it's a pretty good idea to try and understand who is going to beat who.
Tommie T
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on November 7, 2006 5:38 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Tommy T, to clarify, Im pointing out that there is a distinction, a difference, between where/why/how any given team "deserves" to be Ranked... and... which team would be "predicted" to Beat which-ever other team.
We're talking about a 12-game schedule - in College Football, moreso than in any other Sport, and especially it being a sport without a Playoff system - one Win here or one Loss there has a significant impact on where a team should Rank.
I dont know exactly what youre stance is.Your margin of victory comparison of Ohio State to other teams not withstanding, Sagarin's "Predictor" Ratings DO HAVE Ohio State rated No. 1, BY FAR; the Power Rating difference between #1 and #2 is 4.26 rating points, the difference between #2 and #3 is 0.12, between #3 and #4 is 1.29, between #4 and #5 is 1.00, etc. So Ohio St (despite the Illinois result) had done it with "Style Points" moreso than the rest of the Contenders out there.
AU03 said:
posted on November 7, 2006 5:52 PM — 205.255.224.10 — link — abuse?
Tommie- it is very POORLY based on on-the-field results- look at the Sagarin rankings and see who the only team is that has multiple wins against its own Top 10- Auburn. Where are they ranked? 11th. Even the Sagarin rankings don't take its own rankings seriously, so why should we? The "Predictor" element you use isn't even used by the BCS, only the Elo-chess" element, which doesn't reward teams for beating up on 1-AA oppnents (as Texas and Cal have this year).
Computer rankings are greatly flawed, because there isn't enough data to make them remotely accurate. The Sagarin rankings, as well as the rest of the computer rankings, work from the a posteriori ideal (predicting the future based on the past). In college football, there are many intangibles and variables that are unpredictable, so predicting future results based on past outcomes is foolish and impossible, especially with the lack of data that the college season provides.
You have to be naive to speak in the absolutes that you do. According to these rankings- Cal should beat Tennessee by a touchdown- did that happen? LSU should beat Auburn by nearly 10 points- did that happen? Hell, LSU couldn't even SCORE 10 points against Auburn. It is also says that Auburn should beat Arkansas by a touchdown- did that happen?
I agree with SoCal here, ther oddsmakers are probably the most accurate at predicting games, and of course, they tend to be wrong.
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on November 7, 2006 5:57 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Tomcat, Boise State is fine. Another "legit complaint" would come from Cal Berkeley, and Rutgers.
Cal = Rated 4th, but only Ranked 9th in the Polls, (- 5 spots)... 8th in the overall BCS (-4 spots)
Notre Dame = Rated tide for 5th, Poll-Ranked 8th (-3 spots)... 9th in the BCS (-4 spots)
Rutgers = Rated 9th, Poll-Ranked 13th & 14th (- 4.5 spots)... 13th in the BCS (- 4 spots)
Boise St = Rated 12th, Poll-Ranked 13th & 14th (- 1.5 spots)... 14th in the BCS (-2 spots)
Texas = Rated 10th, but poll-ranked 3rd & 4th (+6.5 spots!!!)... 5th in the BCS (+ 5 spots)Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 7, 2006 6:30 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
So Cal Clip:
Funny that you should notice that there is a difference in the Sagarin Ratings. There does seem to be some kinda flaw. Using the straight "Ratings" (not predictor), and applying them to every game played, does not come out the same as the "Ratings". I beleive that the "flaw" is a built-in penalty for losing games. For instance, using the "Ratings" against all teams that LSU has played, they would have the 2nd highest rank in the land - even with two losses to Auburn and Florida. They have completely smoked six different opponents. Nobody has done that. I have mentioned that these were "Power Polls" only. They are meant to be seen as "the average" way that a team will play. Of course, not all teams play the same every week. One of the worst games I saw played was by LSU against Florida. There have been many blowouts of some pretty fair teams. It's not an indication that they will always play that badly, but if it happens too many times, then they are probably not a good team on average. Some teams have consistently underperformed several times. Nobody seems to notice that (unless it's USC). But, I maintain: Michigan, Florida, Auburn and Notre Dame have all been underperforming and getting away with it. That trend should end very soon. Here is a tip: bet the farm on LSU against whoever they play in their bowl game. They are very underrated. You might want to do the same with BYU.
Tommie T
Defensive Minded Nebraskan said:
posted on November 7, 2006 9:43 PM — 216.96.52.26 — link — abuse?
I know that i am partial in this matter, but Nebraska had Texas's number all day. I would be surprised of Nebraska doesn't come away with the Big 12 championship, and go to the Cotton Bowl, based on how they are playing football today. More importantly how Taylor has progressed and trusts his recievers now 1on1. 3 of the best catches of the year for Nebraska were against Mizzou, also Callahan has changed the offensive blocking scheme to help the sophmore laden group; very good group for how much availability is left i may add, all will be back next year minus Greg Austin and Kurt Mann (both who have missed most of the year to bad knees and Mono)
VTBobb said:
posted on November 7, 2006 10:11 PM — 70.22.92.101 — link — abuse?
IrishJT,
OK, let's stay on topic. My comments were meant to point out that historically, poll voters tend to give ND a break. Check last years polls. I didn't see any posts from you last year when week after week, the Irish were voted, on average, 5 places HIGHER than the computers ranked them. Damn southern voters must have been using reverse psychology...#1 Big East Fan said:
posted on November 8, 2006 10:13 AM — 168.216.24.38 — link — abuse?
Quote in regards to Louisville's 44-34 win over WVU.
"If it was a low-scoring game, they probably would have said there was no offense," West Virginia coach Rich Rodriguez said. "If it was a high-scoring game, they would say there's no defense. There's still a handful of people out there looking to pounce on the Big East. I think it's kind of crazy. … I think our league is still underrated, and I think other leagues are way overrated."
Jill said:
posted on November 8, 2006 3:59 PM — 209.194.64.106 — link — abuse?
ky nole, WOW are your eyes green or what? How do you go from talking about Florida State football to talking about U of L & U of K basketball? Did you grow up here? Then you know NOTHING about it. U of K beat us two years ago on a Patrick Sparks WALK!!!!!! so obvious that Billy Packer still talks about it to this day!!! (By the way U of L went to the final four that year)They beat 7 NEW freshman last year who never played a game on the road in their life until they walked into Rupp arena last year and by the way we Beat them two years running before that! So you hang your hat on tradition so much! DONT EVER TALK BASKETBALL with anyone from this state unless you know what you are talking about. Derrick Caracter remmber the name you will be hearing it ALOT in the years to come & we will see how U of L stacks up with WAY MORE tradition in basketball than florida state will EVER EVER know!!!!! As far as our football team right now, I do believe the big east is second right now behind the Pac 10. Where is tradition going to get you this year with your football team? Our "no tradition" football team maybe going to a NC while Florida state sits home and watches it. Once again it's great to be a fan of U of L where we get it done in basketball & football and volleyball & not to mention our 9 (NINE) time national championship cheerleaders!!! Oh and one more thing U of K & U of L had the exact same record in basketball last year except U of L is in the TOUGHEST basketball conference ever!!! GO CARDS!!!
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on November 8, 2006 6:30 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Tommy T, I think its "blow-outs" that might skew things out of proportion (sometimes). Refering specifically to LSU, that's really been the case this year.
LSU had been Over-Ranked by the Polls for the past few weeks (before beating Tennessee), in terms of Wins-&-Losses-Based accomplishments and where they actually 'deserve' to be; receiving too much "credit" for beating-up on Lafayette, Arizona, Kentucky(decent), Miss St, Fresno St(1-7), and Tulane... and Losing to the only quality teams they faced. Now after Week 10 (Tenny win), they've caught-up to their Poll-Ranking a bit, so to speak.
But sure, in terms of covering the spread I'd say that LSU has been Under-"Valued"; winning something like 46-6, on average, against those lame opponents.
Tommy T, take a look at Post 67, Sagarin's Power Rating, er, Predictor Rating on Ohio State 2002. That's what "style points" are worth... that dramaitcally illustrates how much "we" should NOT make "our" Determinations about where a team should R-A-N-K, based on ~how a team looks~.
It should be based on Teams' Results/Accomplishment that given season!
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on November 8, 2006 6:45 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Tomcat,
Cant you take my word for it? The XII is 'down' this year (collectively). The XII has 23 Wins vs D1A opponents and a total of 15 Losses... thats not good... that's bad. And on top of just "the bad Record" (the ACC is a bit worse), the XII's collective SOS is arguably the Worst among the BCS conferneces.
The XII has faced the Highest percentage of Non-D1A opponents (of the 6 BCS confs).
The XII has faced the Lowest percentage of current BCS-Ranked, Top 25 opponents.Im not here to dog you, or the XII, or whatever... Im just laying things out.
RUKiddinMe said:
posted on November 8, 2006 6:51 PM — 24.252.206.222 — link — abuse?
Very impressive Mr. SOCAL!!! Bravo!!! In simpler terms, your #s are a direct result of who u play!! If u play nobodys and you have a decent team, your #s will look fantastic where as a good team playing other good teams wont look so dominant unless they are a Super team which has happened a few times in the past.
RUKiddinMe said:
posted on November 8, 2006 8:03 PM — 24.252.206.222 — link — abuse?
Tomcat, Sorry, u just cant see the forest for the horns!?!? Hookem-Horns post 68? What does that do 4 u? Anyway, U obviously threw my little turd out so fast, that u forgot to learn anything from it. I hope u dont let Tommy Ts "misconceptions" throw u off your journey for knowledge. I dont think everything he has been saying is completely off, just 75% of it. But I have actually picked out the other 25% and learned from it. Im not even saying that Im 100% all the time, but I am alot more open minded than most! If u have a good point, u wont see me argue but if ur talkin crazy, I will chime in. Boise St., WAC, TCU & Good these things dont go together (like oil & water)! Texas scraped by TT and was Very LUCKY with Neb.! Now hold on to that until u can recite it Word 4 Word. Its ok, Texas will improve and who knows, Maby the pollsters will GIVE them a shot at the NC this year! Texas is better than anyone in the B-East.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 8, 2006 10:25 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
These scores just in:
Louisville 27
Rutgers 20Who said this conference doesn't play any defense? Rutgers bows out after a valiant struggle.
Nebraska 28
Texas A&M 24The Huskers drive toward another showdown with Texas.
Tennessee 27
Arkansas 24Arkansas' dream is on thin ice now.
Oregon 23
U.S.C. 31The quacks can't pull it off on the road. USC's 30+ game home winning streak still intact.
Tommie T
Defensive Minded Nebraskan said:
posted on November 8, 2006 11:51 PM — 71.31.160.98 — link — abuse?
I think Nebraska gets at least 31 in this one.. my Guess is
Neb 31
A&M 20not quite a barn burner but it goes to the forth quarter. As for USC and Oregon i do not think that the Oregon recivers will be a factor, which will play into the hands of SC. SC 28 Ducks 13
IrishJT said:
posted on November 9, 2006 8:03 AM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
You know, I've waited most of the week and not one of you has refuted the idea that southern/west coast AP voters are anti-Notre Dame. I appreciate the tacit agreement too. Kevin made "some" points, but could not explain why his logic as to why ND got leap-frogged didn't apply to Texas or any SEC team with 2 or fewer losses, which really underscored my point. The rest of you obviously stayed away from the argument because it is easier to say that "I think LSU would be Notre Dame if they played today." That's great to hear. I thought teams were ranked based on their body of work throughout the season, which is why an undefeated team normally gets ranked ahead of the 2-loss late bloomers (not that I think LSU could score with Notre Dame...not even close).
Until someone explains this to me, without conveniently calling it "whining" or "sour grapes", I think we can all rest assured that those who vote for, or rely on, the AP have schewed vision towards a small, catholic, private school in South Bend.
Sorry boys. There's just no other way to explain it.
Tomcat said:
posted on November 9, 2006 9:13 AM — 70.245.21.0 — link — abuse?
Hey Tommie I disagree with your prediction.
The A&M game is in College Station and after last weeks brilliant coaching excapades Im sure that Fran & company is on the hot seat for sure.
Nebraska will lose this one.
How about the President of A&M taking a job in D.C.?
So-Cal I think that when you look at wins and losses and OCC games you must keep in mind that most of these games were early in the season against formatable opponents.
As to whether or not a paticular team is ranked or not is purely subjective upon alot of different contributing factors.
The Big XII's OCC schedule were against
TCU SMU
Iowa UTEP Louisville
USC La Tech Toledo
Wash Houston UNLV
Wash St FAU
Ga
Ohio State UAB
Colo St Miss Troy
Rice Marshal
Army USF
Oregon Arizona St
Purty decent Div-1A opponents
Now whether these teams are from BCS conferences are not, is not the teams fault,same goes for rankings
Now when it comes to conference play, you can take all the polls and throw them out the window.
Example
Texas Tech beats A&M loses to Colorado
Baylor beats Colorado loses to Texas Tech
Missouri beats Texas Tech and loses to A&M
This shows strength of a conference not weakness
Its really alot more fun and competitive than in the old days when one or two dominated.
We will see who shows up for the bowl games and I'm sure the XII will be well represented
We have unranked teams with 4 or 5 losses that could play anybody and win.
I have to agree with T-Mac sometimes your stuff is as stale as last nights beer.
Hookem Horns Go Beavers GiGem-Aggies
OU Fan said:
posted on November 9, 2006 9:37 AM — 155.147.14.9 — link — abuse?
Post 77, not hating on Nebraska but they really haven't impressed too much. I think ATM will pull off the win in College Station. And even if Nebraska has to play Texas again, I hate the horns but I believe that they would definately beat Nebraska in the Big 12 championship even though I will root for Nebraska. And College Station will be a much tougher place to play than Stillwater. Go Golden Hurricanes! Go Sooners!
GatorMatt said:
posted on November 5, 2006 4:53 PM — 65.213.191.153 — link — abuse?Not quite sure how Louisville jumped Florida. Granted, Florida played a close game against Vandy, but Louisville showed that they don't have much of a run defense. I would like to see them play a team like LSU and see how they would fare in that game