November 19, 2006
BCS Poll 2006 - Week 6
Week 6 Poll of the Bowl Championship Series (11-19-2006)
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. USC
4. Florida
5. Notre Dame
6. Arkansas
7. West Virginia
8. Wisconsin
9. Louisville
10. LSU
11. Boise State
12. Auburn
13. Texas
14. Rutgers
15. Oklahoma
16. Georgia Tech
17. Virginia Tech
18. Boston College
19. California
20. Tennessee
21. Wake Forest
22. Nebraska
23. Brigham Young
24. Clemson
25. Penn State
Expanded computer rankings
AH RB CM KM JS PW
1. Ohio State 25 25 25 25 25 25
2. Michigan 24 24 23 24 24 24
3. Southern California 23 23 24 23 23 23
4. Florida 22 22 22 22 19 21
5. Notre Dame 19 20 20 20 22 22
6. Arkansas 21 16 16 21 21 19
7. West Virginia 18 18 19 16 13 18
8. Wisconsin 13 21 17 18 20 16
9. Louisville 20 19 21 19 17 20
10. LSU 16 15 13 15 14 14
11. Boise State 14 14 15 14 18 15
12. Auburn 15 9 14 17 16 12
13. Texas 9 11 10 5 6 13
14. Rutgers 17 13 18 12 12 17
15. Oklahoma 11 12 8 3 3 5
16. Georgia Tech 6 10 7 9 9 11
17. Virginia Tech 8 17 9 10 8 8
18. Boston College 7 6 11 8 7 9
19. California 12 5 12 13 15 10
20. Tennessee 10 7 6 11 10 6
21. Wake Forest 5 8 5 4 0 2
22. Nebraska 3 1 2 0 0 0
23. Brigham Young 1 0 4 0 0 1
24. Clemson 4 0 3 1 2 3
25. Penn State 2 4 0 6 11 7
AH - Anderson & Hester
RB - Richard Billingsley
CM - Colley Matrix
KM - Kenneth Massey
JS - Jeff Sagarin
PW - Peter Wolfe
Comments:
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 19, 2006 6:04 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
RU Kid, responding to post 300 from BCS Week-5 blog...
Where's the so called "bragging"??? This issue with Arkansas is about Arkansas fans trying to 'excuse themselves' of that LOSS with as much as they can get away with. Teams all across the country could make those type of excuses (last year it was all about Tyrone Prothro and Bama, this year it seems to be about Darren McFadden and Arkansas... "woah-is-me, boo-who". A win is a win, a loss is a loss - the Arkansas-USC game, Im not making anymore of it than what it is, a Win. Theres no 'bragging' from me, theres only regulating the excuse-making from the other side.
So you dont "believe the game would pan out for USC today" huh???... well, I dont "believe" Tennessee beats Cal, AT Cal "today",... I dont "believe" LSU beats Arizona, AT Arizona, had they faced-off THIS PAST SATURDAY -- You think Arizona is "the same team" Now as they were in early September???... Thats how things go sometimes. Everyone's gotta deal with that kinda stuff, its nothing new, it happens every year.
Jon said:
posted on November 19, 2006 6:17 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
This is exactly the type of B.S. that is unacceptable. I am not interested in debating about who deserves to play Ohio State. It is time for playoffs. Regardless of whether it detracts from the regular season...or not.. I view what is currently happening (to the entire top 10 with 1 loss) as a bigger detractor than playoffs could ever be...
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 19, 2006 6:54 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
RU Kid, post 236 and 300 BCS Week 5 blog -
Somebody's gotta be No. 3... In terms of how "powerful" teams have "looked" throughout the season, I'd agree, none of them really have (USC, Florida and beyond). Id say College Football took a collective step down this season, but like with everything, you have to look at it in a Relative sense. THIS SEASON, USC has faced the toughest Schedule among the contenders this year (top to bottom). Heres where we differ in opinion; its not just about opponents listed in the utterly ARBITRARY "top 25"... it could just as easily be the "top 30", or whatever else. Some teams that are maybe just "decent" can jump up and beat a team that is "good" (Texas @ Kansas St), or a team thats "solid" can jump up and beat a team thats "a contender" (USC @ Oregon St)... so every opponent matters. Teams' schedules should be taken into consideration in their Entirety. In the same sense, teams that face a bunch of complete weaklings down at the bottom of their Schedule, that builds up a "nice looking" record, shouldnt be Rewarded. Facing cupcakes SHOULD hurt a team's SOS accordingly.
Just have this in mind, all 12 of USC's opponents are BCS teams, thats un-heard-of if its any other team in the country... USC plays only 6 Home games, and 6 Road games!!! that un-heard-of for most of the of the Premiere programs (call @ UCLA neutral if you'd like). Compared to other contenders out there, concievably, USC "shoulda have" faced a team like Utah St and gotten an easy Win, insted of playing @ Oregon St, and USC would have still been Undefeated (The NCAA added a 12th game this season: the PAC went to a 9-confernece game schedule, every other conference just loaded-up on Sun Belt and Non-Division-1A teams).
badgerballer said:
posted on November 19, 2006 7:04 PM — 4.228.78.40 — link — abuse?
Guys, help me out here. I'm REALLY in need of a sanity check. As a Wisconsin alum & huge Badger fan, I'm really getting P.O.'d with the general lack of respect and pub that my Badgers are getting; nationally, and especially by ESPN. We're 11-1, and the BCS #8 team in the country, for cry'n out loud. Yet there is never even any mention of Wisconsin.
I have watched every installment of College Gameday and Final, every Saturday, all season. They never preview Wisconsin games. They spend 3 minutes on 4-loss ACC teams, but ignore this one 1-loss Big Ten team.
Yesterday, as with every Saturday past, Fowler says, "Here's a look at the current one-loss teams", they put up a graphic that includes all 1-loss eams, but excludes Wisconsin.
Last night on Final, they showed highlight packages of every stink'n game in the nation - including Washington/Washington State, Tulsa/SMU, and about a dozen other teams that - not going to any bowl at all. And there wasn't even a mention of the fact Wisconsin posted its 11th win.
Be honest with me, I can take it. Am I missing something here? (Its a good thing that Fowler et. al. don't have their personal email address on the ESPN site, or I'd be flaming them like nobody's business.)
RUKiddinMe said:
posted on November 19, 2006 7:33 PM — 24.252.206.222 — link — abuse?
SoCalUS- Posts 5&8 Im impressed, not by USC but by the fact that I got 2 off the rip! Where U been? Are U telling me that U were Impressed by that Football game w/ USC in it? Truly, the PAC-10 has as a collective group have been UNIMPRESSIVE! So the debate of USC having the strongest SOS is null and void! I sincerely hope that there is a rematch for the NC game so that we may truly see if the SECs best (UF) can handle the PAC-10s best (USC)! Nothing could be better than getting Booty all night long! (thats pretty funny right there!)
IrishJT said:
posted on November 19, 2006 8:03 PM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
Kevin,
Explain to me two things:How would a Notre Dame, that beats USC by say 14, actually garner enough points to surpass Michigan (let's say Fla loses to Ark in SEC game and Ark loses to LSU next week)??
Also, and on that point, why would there be "little chance" that Michigan get the rematch? It seems like USC is really the only team that might slip by them and they have two tough remaining games and looked rather "blah" against Cal.
BTW...I gotta hand it to Troy Smith. He's passed every test this year with flying colors. I still believe that on spec Brady is a better quarterback, more cerebral and will be a great pro...but the best player on the best team deserves the Heisman Trophy (that really sucked to type all of that).
Also, do you honestly think USC can score with Notre Dame? I hear all of the USC fans talk of how this year's team will blow ND off the field. My only response is "you mean, like last year when you had two Heisman Trophy winners in the backfield?" There ain't gonna be a "Bush Push" this year boys. Line will favor USC ONLY because their at home.
IrishJT said:
posted on November 19, 2006 8:17 PM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
If Notre Dame beat USC by 2 touchdowns, would someone at least admit that this is a better ND team than 8 weeks ago? Sure, they played horribly against Michigan and lost by 26. Down by 19, and driving on UofM's 30 yd line, Quinn fumbles in what can only be described as a "Charlie Brown-Lucy moment" and it goes the other way for 7. If Notre Dame scores on that drive, then loses, they lose by 12...TWELVE!!! The game was never in question, but it was closer than 26. MOST MICHIGAN FANS will admit that they no longer believe, nor did they ever, that Michigan could again beat Notre Dame by such a margin.
So again, I ask, if some miracle happens (you like that SoCal USMC?) and the Irish put a beatin' on the Trojans...why not give them a shot??? Especially if LSU beats Ark and Ark beats Fla in the SEC title game. ANSWER ON THIS SCENARIO ONLY!!!
Diggs the Mounty...please don't post anything. The Big East had to go undefeated to play in Glendale. By the way, Notre Dame has 4 opponents in the top 25 (Mich, USC, GaTech & PennState). West Virginia has 2 (Rutgers & Louisville)...Maryland is GONE!!!!!!!!!!
Michigan is the only other team with 4 regular season opponents in the top 25. Florida has 4 if you count the SEC title game.
Jarred said:
posted on November 19, 2006 8:30 PM — 12.178.138.65 — link — abuse?
Post 5 You don't believe they would turn out that way, huh, enlighten me. The constant bringing up of McFadden is because Pac guys in general say they are better than the SEC and that score is only thing they use. They never say anything about the other three games. If there were significant injuries that helped the pac lose those three games, I would love to hear them. If there is any significant evidence to suggest the Pac being better than the SEC besides that game, pleas post it. No wonder T-Mac left.
RUKiddinMe said:
posted on November 19, 2006 8:31 PM — 24.252.206.222 — link — abuse?
All we can do is hold out to the end! If USC goes up against tOSU, that game will be as lopsided as Mich. playing ND! USC, say what u will, allowed way to many pts. in their Oreg. St. loss and scraped by Cal. at home.(not to forget the other high scoring sleepers USC barely got by with) Do any of U PAC-10 fans truly think that USC would stack up against tOSU or Mich.???? Im not so shure anyone can but the better D has got to go or the NC will be a BLOW OUT!!!!!! Then again there could be a friggin REMATCH!
posted on November 19, 2006 8:51 PM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue said:
@SoCal - Split NC isn't out of the question, I guess, in your hypothetical.
@IrishJT - I would think ND has to the toughest road to the Championship, but the polls *love* them. I still contend they're overrated, btw. Since Michigan is done for the year, they aren't going to go up, but it's possible they can go down. If USC wins out, then they probably get enough love to pass Michigan.
So, as much as I don't understand it, I think ND gets into the championship (even with the Michigan loss) if they handily best USC. I think ND beating USC is a long shot, but... there ya go.Florida also has a good deal of upside, with FSU and SEC title game ahead. Big wins and I think you could see Florida passing Michigan, especially if USC beats ND but falls to UCLA. :)
Horn4Life said:
posted on November 19, 2006 8:56 PM — 68.206.33.144 — link — abuse?
Well IrishJT IF Notre Dame beats USC which i really dont think will happen. IF USC loses, then Notre Dame should move up to 3rd. Butttt...Michigan wooped Notre Dame pretty damn bad and I don't think they'd play too good against OSU and I'd rather see a OSU-Michigan rematch cuz tat was a pretty good game
So again, I ask, if some miracle happens (you like that SoCal USMC?) and the Irish put a beatin' on the Trojans...why not give them a shot??? Especially if LSU beats Ark and Ark beats Fla in the SEC title game. ANSWER ON THIS SCENARIO ONLY!!!JT said:
posted on November 19, 2006 8:57 PM — 71.213.226.54 — link — abuse?
badgerballer,
The struggling 14-0 win over San Diego State didn't help Wisconsin, who was playing at home, especially considering the fact that TCU posted 52 points in 2 1/2 quarters on SDSU this week. Still, I agree the Badgers are overlooked. Despite the scare against SDSU, Wisconsin may actually be the true #3 this year.
TBaker said:
posted on November 19, 2006 9:21 PM — 71.1.29.141 — link — abuse?
I'm content with WV not in the NC game, fine with me and I look forward to whatever bowl we do get...but for God's sake let ANY team play in the NC EXCEPT Notre Dame. ANYBODY. If that happens I'm going to be as far away from a TV as possible on Jan 8 (unless someone calls me to tell me they're getting spanked, then I'll run right back to the TV).
J Thomas said:
posted on November 19, 2006 10:10 PM — 70.178.147.205 — link — abuse?
Another question that somebody can help me with, How is the world is Florida ranked above Arkansas when Florida got beat by an Auburn team that Arkansas took behind the wood shed? I don't get this ranking system at all???
C-DOGG said:
posted on November 19, 2006 10:30 PM — 76.188.148.131 — link — abuse?
Badgerball (post#11),
I understand your gripe about Wisconsin not getting any respect. However the facts are the facts. Wisconsin's schedule avoided Ohio State this year and you guys lost to Michigan. That's why the media (not me) gives you guys no respect. Now I would be really pissed as a Wisconsin fan if the Rose Bowl gives you the shaft if OSU & Michigan rematch. Is that possible with the bowl tie-ins? If so...the Captial One/Citris Bowl ain't bad.
TrojanHorse said:
posted on November 19, 2006 10:36 PM — 69.175.172.117 — link — abuse?
To Badgerball
Here is why I don't give Sconsin any love (not sure why others don't)
Signature wins > 8-4 PSU (whose has 3 wins against 1AA Youngstown, Akron, & TEMPLE) or is it Purdue at 8-4 (whose has 3 wins 1AA Indiana State, Ball State, and Miami, Ohio)
Sconsins Non Con > Bowling Green, SDSU, 1AA Western Illinois, and Buffalo (this isn't earning any respect in any way shape or form)
In other words, you guys have beat absolutely no one, all you have proven is that you played one quality team in UM and lost.
Wisconsin is way overrated at 8 and should be closer to 20.
RUKiddinMe said:
posted on November 19, 2006 10:47 PM — 24.252.206.222 — link — abuse?
J Thomas- Thats a pretty good question! I can only give u 1 guess-SOS. They (UF) did get beat by Aubern but Ark. hasent played everyone that they have and lost very badly to USC. Not really a good answer but it is an answer. If U beat LSU and USC loses to ND I wouldent be surprised if both of u jump UF the way things are going with the polls. The only hope for UF or Ark. is for USC to beat ND then lose to UCLA reguardless of what happens in the SEC champ game! (thats straight from TT and I hate to agree w/ him but hes right) I truly dispise the BCS system! Look at the 1 loss teams that are left, does any of them have a more legit gripe than Mich.? Like it or not they are #2 and were just barely beat in Ohio by #1! CAN ANYONE ELSE MAKE THAT CLAIM FOR THEIR 1 LOSS? I dont think so, SOS and all!
oldvolfan said:
posted on November 19, 2006 11:06 PM — 70.34.177.82 — link — abuse?
JThomas, its just the way it is sometimes. Arkansas was not expected to do so well this year so they are discounted by the polls. Auburn and Florida were expected to do well so they get all the credit for winning against anyone.
There is so much subjectivity in the polls that the only way we will ever resolve the concerns is to have a playoff system that includes the top eight teams at a minimum. It may never happen but anything else is pure BS.Razorback33matt said:
posted on November 19, 2006 11:55 PM — 72.204.29.80 — link — abuse?
Ok for the wisonsin fans, its simple as this the only good team wisconsin has played, Michigan, they got spanked. Wisconsin could not survive in any game again USC, ND, Florida, Arkansas, or Ohio State. Wisconsin has only beat 2 teams with winning records and clrearly do not deserve to even be mentioned with BCS. to the subject of michingan, Michigan is not as good as the score would have suggested yesterday, it was a two touchdown lead after the first half and except for a last minute touchdown which was mostly Ohio State realizing they already one and not playing defense Michigan really got stomped, it was a very boring game, not to mention Michigan was playing off the emotion of the death of their former coach, they would not have even been that close if that didnt happen when it did. Simply put Michigan is over rated. once again with the same arguement I had with wisconsin, who have they beat besides, Notre Dame and wisconsin have only beaten 1 team with a winning record. Michigan aint that good guys and if they make it to the national championship it is asking for an embarressment, They'll do good to win their bowl game. The naitonal championship should be Ohio State, and either USC or the winner of the SEC championship.
Aaron said:
posted on November 20, 2006 12:25 AM — 67.183.239.139 — link — abuse?
badger: Wisconsin has beaten exactly ZERO ranked teams. Not really anything to write home about.
Michigan getting a rematch is disgusting. If my Hogs win out they they should play Ohio State, unless USC also has only one loss. USC should be the forerunner because they played THREE ranked teams (two in the Top 10 teams and one that is in the Big 12 CG during their non-conference). If USC has two losses, Arkansas would hypothetically be on a 12-game winning streak having beaten Auburn (#2), Tennesee (#13), LSU (#9) and Florida (Top 4) along the way. Michigan has done nothing but beat a Notre Dame team that has beaten only one ranked opponent (Georgia Tech) and a Wisconsin team that hasn't played or beaten anyone of significance or ranking. If Michigan can't win their own conference they deserve nothing. They blew their chance in the first half on Saturday.
Regan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 1:29 AM — 205.188.116.133 — link — abuse?
At this point, I honestly do not care who plays Ohio State for the National Championship, so long as it IS NOT MICHIGAN.
They had their chance - I say let someone else have one...
In the phenomenon that is College Football, for anyone to claim with absolute certainty that a Florida, Arkansas, Notre Dame, Southern California, or whoever - cannot stand up to Ohio State, then feel free to check out the 2003 Fiesta Bowl...Or the 2006 Rose Bowl...
OR ANY OTHER GAME WHERE AN UNDERDOG WINS.
Gimme a Break, people...
Julian said:
posted on November 20, 2006 6:24 AM — 70.191.249.212 — link — abuse?
It is outrageous nonsense for Michigan to remain at number 2 following a late season loss. I know all the logic. But, this is nonsense. It is time to trash the BCS and go to a playoff series. That is the only way we will ever know who the real champ is.
Marko said:
posted on November 20, 2006 7:58 AM — 70.127.205.96 — link — abuse?
What happens if USC beats Notre Dame and UCLA by the slimmest of margains? (like 3-7 pts) Do you think that will sway the Harris and USA Today pollsters on Michigan's side? I mean logically, if USC only beats N. Dame by a field goal, there is little doubt that Michigan is a far better team. Out of principle, they would have to vote in Michigan #2. Would that be enough to overcome some computers shooting USC over Michigan in the computer poll?
Cane_Nation said:
posted on November 20, 2006 8:39 AM — 205.166.218.39 — link — abuse?
Regan (post 28)
I've said it several times already. No one is THAT good this year to say that they can GUARANTEE they will beat anybody. This a very weak year for college football. Yes, tOSU is the best team out there, but just because it's a weak year. Everybody thinks their team is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that's all well and good, support your team. But don't be stupid about it, nobody is really head ann shoulders above the rest of the nation. Hell, I never thought I would say that my team sucks, but I do understand that they do. I live in south GA and i STILL hear how great the bulldogs are, and that is the very reason i HATE the bulldogs. So lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet. Plus that Buckeye D really looked like they could get exposed under the right circumstances.
NOBODY IS GUARANTEED ANYTHING THIS YEAR.Maurice said:
posted on November 20, 2006 8:51 AM — 208.17.179.66 — link — abuse?
Look for 2 Big East teams in the BCS this year. HA HA to the ACC. Peolple said the Big East was over.
To all of you who doubted the Big East, Y'all are a bunch of SUCKAS. TBE will shake the BCS up like Ike shook Tina.I hate to see rematches but if ND beats USC in a thriller. The Rose Bowl will have a USC ND rematch and Michigan OSU rematch for the National title
IrishJT said:
posted on November 20, 2006 9:07 AM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
AARON,
You are mistaken. The Irish play/have played 4 ranked teams. Georgia Tech, Penn State, USC and Michigan. They have also played the following teams who, at one point, were ranked in the top 25: Michigan State, UCLA, Purdue and Navy. So to say that "all Notre Dame has done" is beat Georgia Tech is really not being intellectually honest. Notre Dame had one of the toughest schedules in the country, like it or not. It was a lot tougher than Ohio State's schedule...having played only Penn State, Michigan and Texas that are currently ranked. Iowa turned out to be a fraud and OSU's remaining OOC schedule was against cream puffs like Cincy, Bowling Green and Northern Illinois. So let's be honest about who had a tough schedule this year. The Irish didn't play any mid-american teams. They played BCS conference teams, with the exception of the service academies which is a tradition that goes back to WWII.This Notre Dame team is not the same team that lost to Michigan. USC better respect them too, 'cause USC doesn't have two Heisman Trophy winners in the backfield this year to cheat their way to victory in the last second of the game.
GATORGreg said:
posted on November 20, 2006 9:08 AM — 70.152.53.129 — link — abuse?
J Thomas,
Your an idiot if you have to ask why Arkansas is behind Florida but I will tell you. Two points, unranked pre-season and a spanking by USC on the season opener. Also if you play us like Miss. St. this past weekend Dec. 2 wont even be a challenge for UF. Like I said last week, this weekends game was a good practice for the Gators, building up to a decent FSU team and rolling into the SEC championship. Beat LSU this weekend because we need the SOS. Speaking of LSU Ole Miss gave them everything they had...yikes!Now onto the rankings, I trhink this week they actually got it correct for the most part. I however feel as though USC should be #2. If they beat ND this weekend they def. will be. Tommy, you won part one but for God's sake how bad is Cal. Their offense is just aweful, talk about boring. I'll be pulling for the Trojan nation this weekend but expect a flip-flop once UCLA rolls into town. I was taken back at Florida still being ahead of ND but what can you say, no complaints here.
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 20, 2006 9:08 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Cane_Nation(#42):
Well,Your last statement is not entirley true:
-OSU is guaranteed to play for the MNC
-Someone is guaranteed to be whinig that they deserved a shot at playing OSU
See, there are certainties in CFB...
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 9:13 AM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Everybody:
USC will demolish Ohio State or Michigan. Take your pick. That was the worse defense I have ever seen. I am no longer concerned with Ohio State. They will not get 20 against USC. No really. What game were you people watching? Did you see any pass rush, any tackling, any hard hitting? None. Disgraceful! Wide receivers wide open. DB's falling down all over the place (don't use the field as an excuse - no offensive players were falling). The two most overrated defenses I have ever seen and just more testament as to how bad the Big 10 really was this year. Michigan averaged 29 points a game going against an Ohio State defense that averaged 7 against them. Seems to me Michigan should have scored 18. Nope! They get 39. Terrible defense and not even as good as average by Ohio State. USC will score 40+ on these guys and they won't get 20. The problem with the BCS is the voters. They have no idea what they are looking at when they are looking at it.
Tommie T
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 9:31 AM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
GatorMatt:
What you were having trouble with in the USC-California game was called "tremendous defense". Nobody in the country plays defense as well as USC. I must give kudos to Cal, which I would never do, for the way they did show up defensively against the Trojans. Out 62 game streak of +20 points was in serious jeopardy for awhile. Also, I admired both Marshawn Lynch and DeSean Jackson in this one, for getting back in the game after taking some brutal hits. Jackson was almost decapitated immediately, and his bell was definately rung by Taylor Mays, yet got back into the game and got a couple of grabs. Lynch played hard the whole game even though his arm was mangled on a couple of different occasions.
USC found two more "true gamers" in FS Taylor Mays and RB CJ Gable. Both are true freshman who came to win a National Championship. Incredible!Tommie T
Luke said:
posted on November 20, 2006 9:47 AM — 209.251.132.34 — link — abuse?
Florida plays better defense than USC..at least when Marcus Thomas was on the team and Moss wasn't suspended. But they still probably have a better Defense. Most points scored against florida are a result of our offensive turnovers. Our defense is damn good. No team has scored more than 30 points against Florida this year, even when our offense collapsed against Auburn.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 9:58 AM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Funny Funny Stuff. Bad day to be a "hater". What a dilema you boyz are in. You're gonna have to "pray to touchdown Jesus" this coming weekend - in order for your teams to have a chance to make it to the dance. If there is any team more hated than USC - it's gotta be Notre Dame. This is just comical to me. The "hate" ought to be spewin' forth this week as all "haters" feel the stress of their personal predicament. Personally, I don't think that Michigan can hold on to #2 while the other teams still have good games left, that can influence voters, and help SOS with the computers. USC, Notre Dame, Florida, Arkansas and even West Virginia all have a shot. I think GatorGreg has it right. You have to hope that USC beats Notre Dame and that UCLA can spring "the upset of the century" and take down USC while playing "for all the marbles". Man, I'd hate to be a "hater" and in this predicament today.
Tommie T
M GO BLUE said:
posted on November 20, 2006 10:18 AM — 216.46.213.97 — link — abuse?
Tommie,no hard hitting? Ask troy smith about that.....he's probably still in bed =) He got smoked about 20+ times in that game.
You think USC can stop OSU? Your insane to even begin to think USC could touch OSU,I watched USC Cal,USC could'nt touch Cal's run game! But I think I would enjoy watching OSU pound USC into the ground!
You are simply burned that Michigan is still #2 and are trying to play Michigan down,did you watch Michigan's final drive? And slipping,only Michigan was slipping,maybe cause OSU has been playing on crappy surface all year,and never underestimate the shoe,makes the Coliseum (however you spell it)sound deathly silent.Gatorpilot said:
posted on November 20, 2006 10:22 AM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
Sorry Tommy T, I think it's the ketchup and mustard glasses speaking. I don't see USC beating this OSU team. For that matter I just don't see anyone beating them.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 11:03 AM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
M GO BLUE:
What are you taking about? You got to the QB late and hit him after he relesed the pass? That's not what I'm taking about. I'm talking about the guy who caught it. Your team is trying to arm tackle or pull them down by their jerseys. How bout just smackin' em down? How bout make it so they don't ever want to catch a pass? Did you see what happended to DeSean Jackson on the 2nd play from scrimmage? He knocked into next year. He really didn't recover from that. Lynch got 88 yards, maybe his season low, and you don't think USC stopped Cal. They got nine lousy points, moron! They had been averaging 36. On the other hand, Ohio State was averaging 36 - but, they got 42. Dude, I don't mind if your team plays Ohio State again. If that's what everybody wants to see fine. But, you just better hope that's what happens, because if your team ends up in the Rose Bowl instead and USC isn't in the BCS Championship game, that will be the day that you come to understand who is better than Ohio State. And, on that day, we'll have another split NC - because Michigan is gonna lose by alot more than three lousy points on that day. Mark it down.
Tommie T
Big 10 H8r said:
posted on November 20, 2006 11:10 AM — 141.166.114.170 — link — abuse?
I am so sick of people scapegoating ND schedule...They book it years in advance. Lets talk schedule though..Michigan went toe to toe with such annual powerhouses as Vandy (MI dare not step too deep in to the SEC) Central Michigan???? That "Putrid" Michigan State team, That "Lousy" Penn State team, NW'stern?? ( and you want to throw stones), Ball State, Indiana, Iowa, and MN??!!!! And dont give me that "We have to play them because their in our conference bull" Its still cup cake opponents. Now that Michigan's shedule is out in the open too, go look at OSU's..You will be motified by the power of Northern IL, Bolling Green, and cincy, not to mention PSU, MSU, Minn, and NW'stern.
FSU_FAN_AGAIN said:
posted on November 20, 2006 11:10 AM — 168.82.56.100 — link — abuse?
#47 Tommie Trojan-- USC has good defense? Is that what you are suggesting? Half of the PAC-10 has been a challenge to them this season, and a I seem to remember enjoying watching a fat quarterback singlehandedly expose USC's defense left and right last year. It is USC's offense that will win anything for them, and it is good this year. It isn't great though and OSU's looks far better to me. I would stay worried if I were you. I'm not you though so I will actually be suprised to see USC beat ND this year. I think they will beat UCLA but not maul them like last year because this just isn't last years team.
I hope to see ND or ARK in the NC GAME. Mostly because I hate Florida and don't think Michigan deserves a second shot.
easternfan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 11:21 AM — 67.72.98.85 — link — abuse?
I feel Wisconsin's pain too, why they don't get more love I do not know.
Since ND can't grow the grass up to the players A$$es this year USC's speed and superior line play should rip a hole through them on both sides of the ball. Of course all ND has to do is stay in the top 12 to garner their BCS bid.
Watch Arkansas lose to LSU and Florida lose the SEC chumpionship. Another 2 loss SEC champion and Sugar bowl defeat.
USC gets the title game but finishes #5 after losing to OSU by a lot.
OK guys, hit me with it. I'm sure I've pi$$ed somebody off.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 11:23 AM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
GatorPilot:
This is what I see: I see WR's running around wide open - nobody within 20 feet. That is terrible coverage - period. Whenever anybody is that wide open - the coverage is terrible. All of these people are very fast. There is no excuse for CB's and safeties to allow receivers to get that open. All the WR's on both Ohio State and Michigan were free to do whatever they wanted. There was no pass rush either - and that is a problem. You didn't see those kinda gaps in the USC/Cal game. The only broken play was when Steve Smith got loose at the end of the game. That was the same kinda "broken coverage" that I saw all over the field in Columbus. That will not happen against a team with a good secondary. Those WR's aren't any better than the ones at USC - and we don't ever get to run freely around the field against any team in the Pac-10. That is a fact. Every pass ever complete is by some QB who has to "thread the needle" and make the perfect pass. I'm not saying that Troy Smith can't do that. All I'm saying is that the pass coverage was horrible for both teams.
Tommie T
J Thomas said:
posted on November 20, 2006 11:31 AM — 70.178.147.205 — link — abuse?
GatorGreg,
Dude you will see how much of an idiot I am when it comes to Atlanta, Florida is not that good, and you talk about Mississippi State like they are a bad team, no not at all just wait until next year and these guys are coming back strong, they just have a young team and are jsut begining to mesh well together. I will go as for to say that they would beat Florida now, but we will never know. You may be ahead now but when we beat LSU we will jump you in the polls and then beat you in Atl but have no where to go in the polls, because USC is going to win out.Big East Fan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 11:33 AM — 168.216.24.38 — link — abuse?
A rematch of Ohio State and Michigan in the Championship would be a great injustice. Ohio State looked like the better team for 4 quarters...they actually made some mistakes to let Michigan stay in the game...It should have been 10 point win...that late TD was worthless. I would much rather see Florida, USC Arkansas, or even offensive minded West Virginia in the title game....But WVU has no shot because of a national perception of a weak BE, and our weak non-conference schedule, but WVU is top 5.
The Big Ten is not the best conference in the country, not even close. A team from another conference should get a shot at OSU.
Cane_Nation said:
posted on November 20, 2006 11:46 AM — 205.166.218.38 — link — abuse?
Gatorhippy (post#46)
I'll give you that. tOsu will play for the national title, and someone will be whining about being left out. I can also guarantee that someone will either be from the SEC and/or IrishJT. Hell, Notre Dame should be there because they have the shiniest helmets.
MICK said:
posted on November 20, 2006 12:03 PM — 24.208.151.225 — link — abuse?
TO TOMMIE T
I TOO HOPE THAT OSU GETS TO MEET THE TROJANS. AND I WOULD LIKE TO EXTEND TO YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE ANY MONETARY WAGER YOU WOULD LIKE, AND I MEAN ANY. YOU NAME IT, I GET THE BUCKEYES YOU TAKE THE TROJANS.
YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT SEEN THE BUCKEYES PLAY MUCH THIS SEASON.
WE'RE ALL SURPRISED THAT MICHIGAN SCORED AS MUCH AS THEY DID. BUT IF YOU COUNT THE DRIVES THAT WERE CONTINUED AND POINTS MICHIGAN GOT OFF OF QUESTIONABLE PASS INTERFERENCE CALLS, FUMBLED SNAPS BY A CENTER WEARING A CAST, IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN CLOSE.gatorhippy said:
posted on November 20, 2006 12:17 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
BCS Title Game = The TOP TWO teams in the nation...
No matter what happens the rest of the way, we all watched the TWO BEST teams last Saturday in Columbus...
I have not watched any team this year play well enough to beat either of those teams playing at the 'Shoe last weekend...
Yes, that includes the Gators, Irish, Trojans, Mountaineers, Knights, Razorbacks, Broncos, etc...
Sorry, even if USC wins out, IMHO you have three levels this year:
OSU
Mich
Everybody Else...So when we're talking BCS and the best two teams in the nation playing in this MNC title game, OSU and Mich are the best two teams in the nation...
PERIOD...
JMHO
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 12:40 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Look: an FSU Fan shootin' his mouth off on this blog. Amazing! And, I haven't piled on or said one single bad word about his program. And, it's because I have always respected the FSU program for what it is. But, this guy, has got to trash Southern Cal. Another real jerk! He thinks because "Bowden the Younger" left - that all problems are solved. Don't think so Big Boy! But, dream all you like.
Tommie T
Jeremy said:
posted on November 20, 2006 12:49 PM — 65.82.138.66 — link — abuse?
I just want to know one thing
Where was the defense in that big bad big ten.I will tell you this Neither team impressed my on Saturday. Leading up we heard two great defenses going at it. Did not see it.
Michigan looked lost trying to stop the run and short passes, and Ohio State if Henne pulls the string on a couple of passes to manningham Michigan wins the game. (Bad call on the roughing the passer, do not like Refs deciding the game) It was a great game back and fourth a comeback and a awnser seemed to really get some blood flowing through the game. But right now I woould rather see a USC vs. Flordia in the National Championship. I am personally a Big East,and here is one thing I can tell you. There is no more defense in the Big Ten than they are in the Big East.Go Moutaineers
p.s. If slaton would have played that game at least 250 rushing with the holes that were there.
I honestly believe that.Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 1:02 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
GatorHippy:
The only problem that I have against Michigan and Ohio State meeting again - is that in it's own flawed logic it invites a split Championship. The BCS was supposed to end all that. No matter what, unless Ohio State wins out, there is the real possibility of a split National Championship.
Ohio State did not prove that they were better than Michigan by winning by only three points, on their own (flawed) turf. This game played in Michigan may have been a three point Michigan win. So, Michigan was able to hang on to the #2 spot because they played Ohio State to a virtual standoff in Columbus. Michigan gained in this game and Ohio State did not. Now, if Michigan gets another shot and wins by 1 to 5 points - who's to say that the AP doesn't still like Ohio State? A split NC.
On the other hand, what if Florida or Arkansas gets in, and beats Ohio State by six points, and USC beats Michigan by twenty in the Rose Bowl? Could not the AP want to vote USC #1? Or visa versa: what if USC beats Ohio State by three and the SEC champ beats West Virginia by 40? Doesn't that give the AP a chance to name the SEC champ #1? The only way out is to name Michigan #2 and hope like heck that Ohio State beats them again. Otherwise, if Ohio State loses to anyone, it's likely to open it up for another split title. And, I'm not so sure that they can't be beat.Tommie T
TKSMOOTH said:
posted on November 20, 2006 1:17 PM — 64.65.129.250 — link — abuse?
I'm not saying Wisconsin should be in the title game, but how can LSU still be ranked ahead of Wisconsin? 2 losses and they go to overtime Saturday against a team with a record of 3-8? Nayone else see this nonsense?
An 11-1 team not making a BCS bowl. Time to make a change I think.Alex said:
posted on November 20, 2006 1:20 PM — 71.251.90.129 — link — abuse?
I'm for any scenario that keeps ND out of the NC game. And yes, I would like to see an Ohio State Michigan rematch. I know it was painful for the fans involved, especially Michigan fans, but based purely on entertainment value, it was awesome.
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 20, 2006 1:34 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Tommie:
Still the ESSENCE of the ideal behind the BCS is to match up the two best teams in the country...
The AP can vote anyway they want, possibly on purpose (don't forget the S.S.E.S.); which makes the One vs. Two matchup already flawed when considering the AP in the scheme of things; especially this year...
I'm assuming since I don't see anything to the contrary that you agree we saw the two best teams square off last Sat. and watched them almost play to a draw...
Obviously, the AP didn't find a convincing USC victory against Cal as great as a three point Mich. loss to OSU...
I kinda doubt a win over ND by USC; close or a blowout; will change their minds as ND got shown the door by Michigan and USC has that nagging loss to an unranked Ore. St...
I kind of got the feeling that we are possibly already heading for a split title regardless whether they do/don't play each other again...
But, hell, I don't get a vote so how should I know...
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 1:36 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
BuckiNut:
I don't think it matters if Michigan and Ohio State rematch. Wisconsin is out anyway because Michigan goes to the Rose Bowl. I also think that a conference is limited to two teams in a BCS Bowl game. It's really a shame for Wisconsin at 11-1. They meet all the qualifications with only a loss to Michigan. This is probably unprecedented that this could happen. And, I wonder if the Big 10 has ever had three teams with one loss or less. I sure would not want to be whoever Wisconsin is gonna end up playing.
Tommie T
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 20, 2006 1:41 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Badgerball, Wisconsin's Strength of Schedule is not up to par compared... Bowling Green, SD State, etc, and they didnt face Ohio State in-conference... Overall, the Louie's and West VU's had comperable SOSes. Wisconsin doesnt belong any higher.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 1:45 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
GatorHippy:
Keep in mind that Michigan only has the slimmest of lead over USC, Florida, Notre Dame and Arkansas. All these teams can finish off with wins, the computers will definately bump their SOS up, and they could possibly overtake Michigan with good wins. They may also sway some pollsters. I don't think that Notre Dame can do it with only the game against USC - as they are below Michigan now. USC has Notre Dame and Michigan. Florida has FSU and Arkansas. Arkansas has LSU and Florida. Arkansas could garner the most "style points". Florida needs a big Arkansas win over LSU and a big Florida win over Arkansas. That might even sway me. Or, visa versa, Arkansas blow them both out. But, Arkansas can't get by USC unless they lose in my opinion. USC has to win in impressive style over both Notre Dame and UCLA - especially UCLA.
Tommie T
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 20, 2006 1:53 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
RU Kid, USC's Strength of Schedule... the thing is its not about "my opinion" or yours. Michigan's SOS is the only one thats Rated higher than USC's among the 1-loss teams. However, Michigan is done with its schedule, USC still has to face Notre Dame and UCLA! By the end of it USC will have clearly faced the strongest schedule (we're near the end of the season - not much movement left in regards to teams' SOSes).
Kid, I think we established that just about EVERY TEAM this year has been "UNIMPRESSIVE"... USC, Florida, Notre Dame and on down. And by the way, Arkansas is 8-0 in the SEC... but you say ~Florida~ is the SEC's best - really?
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 20, 2006 2:06 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Irish TJ, I said this before this Saturday's games, only USC, Rutgers, Florida, Notre Dame will have a shot at ending up AHEAD of the Ohio St/Michigan Loser if all the favorites win.
Well, now I'd say only USC and Florida have retain a legit shot. If both of those teams lose, its a Michigan-Ohio St rematch.I'd say its damn close... and it would partially depend on whether GTech wins the ACC. That would make ND's win that much better.
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 20, 2006 2:20 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Irish TJ - (RU kid, listen up... Arkansas apologist, you too),
Are you playing the 'what if' game, with that Michigan-Notre Dame matchup??? Its smells like you are. And I take it that you surveyed Michigan fans about that.
Well then how about the "what if" USC hadn't giving away an un-characteristic 4 Turnovers! in that Oregon State game? Take a survey of Oregon State fans - how many of them thought/think they'd beat USC out-right?
That kinda sh!t dont fly! Those turnovers HAPPENED... its reality.
~~~ well what if Michigan doesnt get called for that late hit, bla, blah, baldfudgha~~~There's no compensation for these kinda things... next time just Be Better!
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 2:42 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
So Cal USMC:
There are only three teams left that can play Ohio State. Notre Dame and Arkansas are excluded. Michigan, USC and Florida have the legitimate gripes if they lose out.
For USC to be excluded, and it's Notre Dame that beats them, then Notre Dame can claim to be better than Arkansas - and they will be. Notre Dame can never claim to be better than Michigan. They are both out. Florida, with only a loss to 10-2 Auburn, would have a legitimate complaint should they beat Arkansas. So, it is my opinion that those three teams are all that is left. Nobody else has a real shot. I'll take Michigan even if Notre Dame beats USC. We'll see what happens.Tommie T
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 20, 2006 3:01 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Jarred, follow closely... there are specific point of contention here...
USC had injury issues of its own in that game dopey... and had them through-out the season, and so have lots of teams across the country. It happens every year! You deal with it. And its not like McFadden DIDNT PLAY! he had the MOST CARRIES on the TEAM! among a DEEP and talented RB/FB crew!
The Quarterback issue is barely even worth mentioning... can you name a team with a quality Offense that relies on its Quarterback LESS than Arkansas' offense does !??? ... any ???
The issue is about making excuses, and trying to 'pardoning' certain results, and crying the old "they're a better team now" standard -- The Arkansas-USC result happens to be the one thats being debated... BUT its really about ANY Excuse-Making, by ANY TEAM that I pro`test.Anyway Jarred, on the larger issue... Ive said it many times, the SEC has been the top conference this particular season (so far). They've had a relatively mediocre SOS, collectively, and they've grossly benefitted from Homefield advantage (extreme disparity compared to other confs), but nevertheless, all things considered the SEC has done better than the other confs this year. (things could change depending on Bowl results and remaining inter-conference matchups; 3 ACC teams vs SEC teams left, etc). Now, if you wanna go any further than that, then we have an arguement.
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 20, 2006 3:11 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Tommie T, its about a team's OVERALL ACCOMPLISHMENTS, and not simply about a heads-up result. Thats goofiness.
Conceptual Example here:
Take some random teams like, Missouri and Clemson
... Missouri BEAT Ohio State and LOST to Temple (both at home)
... Clemson LOST to Ohio State and BEAT Temple (both at home)Just based that given information, which team would YOU "Ranked Higher"???
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 20, 2006 3:31 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
BCS HATERS!
If USC, Florida, Arkansas, Notre Dame all end-up with 2 Losses (its still concievable), then Michigan should ABSOLUTELY make it to the National Title game... and there shouldnt be "an issue" with that if it happened.
Think of it this way, even if there were a Playoff system, Michigan would have EARNED the No. 2 Seed (if those other teams end up with 2 losses).Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 3:34 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
So Cal USMC:
I'd go by scoring differential.
Missouri 21 Ohio State 20
Missouri 27 Temple 30Clemson 17 Ohio State 28
Clemson 62 Temple 6How would you rate em?
How bout this:
1. Clemson
2. Ohio State
3. Missouri
4. TempleIs there a flaw in my logic?
Tommie T
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 20, 2006 3:47 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Tommie T, but even from an overall perspective if Notre Dame beats USC, Michigan might still have accomplished more than Notre Dame, regardless, and even irregardless (not putting extra value on the heads-up Mich-ND result). Thats why I said only USC and Florida "retain a legit shot"... and Notre Dame would be "damn close".
To continue the Conceptual example/aid...
... if Mizzu beat Clemson
... Clemson beat Stanford
... Stanford beat Mizzu
What would you make of that (all wins coming at home)?
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 20, 2006 3:52 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
SoCal & Tommie:
If USC beats ND that lowers ND's value for both the Trojans and the Wolvies as far as SOS is concerned...
So that really benefits neither...
But, if we are talking overall accomplishment and USC wins out, doesn't Michigan still DESERVE the chance at OSU again since when comparing each Mich and USC loss USC has the loss to an unranked opponent while Mich loses to the consensus undefeated #1 team...
I'm sure neither of you will agree with that, but it's my position...
The Other Guy said:
posted on November 20, 2006 3:57 PM — 69.22.229.87 — link — abuse?
The OSU and UM game on Saturday was a good game...but it was not a "great" game as people are making it out to be. Michigan was down for almost the entire game -usually by more than a touchdown. It wasn't like a back-and-forth battle. OSU proved to be the better team and UM didn't convince that they are the #2 team in the country. Now Michigan may be the #2 team in the country but if USC wins out they will be going to the NC. Here is my argument for why there SHOULD NOT be a rematch -even if USC loses.
1. It's not fair to Ohio State. If Michigan wins the rematch will they play another game for best of 3? If there were only 2 loss teams out there, I could see a more valid argument, but it appears as if Saturday's game meant nothing if they are simply going to play again. They might as well have played their second teams and decided to simply keep it a close game. Which brings me to my #2 point.
2. It goes away from a playoff system, which seems to be the concensus on the most fair system. Since we don't have playoffs, we should count on the winners of the conferences to work it out. Who's to say OSU and UM are the 2 best teams? They've played in a very weak conference and OSU didn't even play Wisconsin. They need to play either the winner of the SEC, USC or Notre Dame in my opinion -or even the winner of the Big East if it comes to that, which it won't. Michigan had their chance. They lost. What makes them so special to deserve a double elimination game against the same team? Point 3 is related to the playoff system.
3. The argument that the 'supposed' 2 best teams should play each other in the NC is invalid, if we are thinking in terms of an objective, playoff system. Sinc UM lost to the #1 team, they shouldn't get another chance. In College Basketball, many times the 2 best teams meet in the final four. Now the loser dosen't get to play again in the championship game even if they are considered the 2nd best team -the winner of the other final four game does. I know there's a huge difference in C. football, but without a proper playoff sytem, I see this as fair reasoning.
4. It is completely unfair to the other confernces and this year, specifically, to Florida, Notre Dame, and Arkansas (and perhaps WV or Louiville.) You're going to tell me that the winner of the SEC shouldn't get the shot in the NC after Michigan lost -assuming USC loses??! And if somehow USC wins out and Michigan is still #2 in the BCS that USC is going to be shut out. USC had the toughest schedule in the country! The PAC10 and SEC are the toughest conferences. The Big East is stronger than the Big Ten. Not to mention Notre Dame. As for Dame, why did they play the rest of their games after the Michigan loss...to see themselves maybe win out, beat USC and then not get a shot at Ohio State after Michigan lost? I Understand Michigan handled the Irish earlier this year -but it was at the beginning of the year. Notre Dame has had a tougher schedule -maybe not the toughest- but better than Michigan. If Notre Dame finds themselves in the #2-3 fight, I say Michigan had their chance. Let Notre Dame have theirs.
5. My fifth point is simply Ball State. It's more subjective but it bugs me that Michian got away from any crtiticism (and Ohio State struggling to Illinois.) Michigan struggled againt Ball State- a 3-7 team. Now USC, Florida and Notre Dame have struggled with less-than-great teams...but Ball State? That alone should be the clincher for them not deserving a 2nd chance.
The sad thing is, I can't see anyone else taking the #2 spot except for USC. of course this isn't sad for me..but if USC happens to lose, I stll don't want Michigan in there. Maybe If Notre Dame beats USC by a large margin? Arkansas has to count on USC beating Dame and losing to UCLA and them taking care of Florida to have a chance. Florida simply has to beat Arkansas. Problem is, It doesn't seem any other team -beside USC- will be able to jump Michigan even if these teams accomplish this- given the current BCS numbers.
To finish my dissertation, it should be mentioned than I'm actually a fan of Michigan. I loathe Ohio State -more than any other team. I wanted Michigan to win. But they had their chance. They failed. Let another deserving team have an opportunity.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 4:16 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
GatorHippy:
Your logic is flawed - and it is not so that it would not benefit USC. Just as an example of SOS, lets pretend there are 100 teams, and the best team is worth a hundred and the worst team worth one point. Let's say Michigan is done and their SOS is an average of 60.42 after 12 games - or 725 points after 12 games. Now, USC has only played 10 games and has 580 points or 58.00 per game.
Now, USC plays a #6 Notre Dame team and beats them 28-10. Let's say Notre Dame drops down to #14 in the BCS. Instead of Michigan getting 95 for this game - they now get 87. They're points fall to 717 or 59.75 per game. USC picks up the 87 points and is now at 667 after 11 games - or 60.64 per game. In this illustration - you can see that a USC win will diminish Michigan's SOS while adding points to USC. That is exactly how it works. USC would also play an extra game against a UCLA team that might be worth another 65 when it's all said an done. These numbers are only for illustration - they are not correct. But, USC can definately end up with the highest SOS based on "average per game". Certainly, much higher than Michigan. This could offset USC loss to an Oregon State with a 73 SOS - compared to Michigan's loss to a Ohio State with an SOS of 100. Twenty-seven points can be made up in SOS very easily over 11 other games. The better Arkansas and Nebraska do - the higher USC's SOS climbs. Notre Dame is linked to both USC and Michigan. USC hasn't been able to count the points yet.Tommie T
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 4:38 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Everyone:
Check out "the Big Brain" on The Other Guy (Post #91). Finally, somebody who makes some pretty decent logical sense. This guy thinks exactly like I do. Although, he seems much more eloquent in his writing style. But, sadly, the whole system is flawed with voters and computers. None of his logical points will probably happen. Michigan will probably end up with the rematch - rendering the whole season meaningless and nothing being proven at all. It will all mean that the voters liked Ohio State #1 and Michigan #2 from early in the season - and that is exactly the way it stayed. The BCS system was meaningless. We still end up with what most of the country does not want.
Tommie T
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 20, 2006 4:55 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Tommie:
I think you might be simplifying that too much, but i see where you're going...
With six computer polls finding those totals all in a different manner you can't count on that happening...
Now that you mention it seems the biggest problem USC faces is Arkansas and Nebraska finishing up with two losses each...
USC really need those teams to win out and they need to win both of the next two of their own to make this happen...
You know, the more I look at it the more this just seems an absolutely silly way to decide the winner of the NC in D-1 CFB...
Cane_Nation said:
posted on November 20, 2006 4:58 PM — 205.166.218.35 — link — abuse?
Tommie T:
I understand your logic. But, man, you put way too much thought into this. Why not just watch the games and decide who is the better teams? That's what all the other fans do. I understand there are some really ignorant fans out there who believe their team is the best every year regardless of record or actual talent (I live in GA, so trust me, I know), but you're not gonna convince them otherwise anyway. So just enjoy the game.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 5:08 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
GatorHippy:
Your right, six different computers are all gonna figure it out six different ways and two of those will be tossed aside. All I know is this: you have to hope for a large USC win coupled with a UCLA win over USC. That is Florida's hope also - that that Michigan win over Notre Dame can be diminished somehow.
As far as figuring out a National Champion - Daffy Duck would have claimed that it was "purposperous".Tommie T
Jeremy said:
posted on November 20, 2006 5:18 PM — 65.82.138.66 — link — abuse?
Here are the bowl matchups I would like to see
with the teams that are going to be in the runningSugar Flordia vs Notre Dame
Orange GT vs Louisville
Rose Michigan vs WVU (could possibly be Arkansas)
Fiesta Texas vs. Boise StateWhat do you guys think
AU03 said:
posted on November 20, 2006 5:23 PM — 205.255.224.10 — link — abuse?
Tommie T,
While I certainly agree with "The Other Guy," in being against a rematch, and for the same reasons, saying that the voters have had "Ohio State #1 and Michigan #2 from early in the season," is flat-out wrong. Michigan was #15 in the preseason Coaches Poll, and Michigan debuted in the Harris Poll at #5 (which wasn't released until the last week of September). If you want to include the AP poll, Michigan was ranked #14 preseason.
The situation you describe is what happened in 2004 to Auburn, and this year's situation bears little-to-no semblance of that (OU/USC preseason #1 & #2). This year, USC started #2 in the Harris Poll, which is the very place they are ranked right now in it. Michigan wasn't ranked #2 in the Coaches poll until USC lost, wasn't ranked #2 in the Harris poll until USC squeaked by a fairly weak Washington team (the rank that USC got back this week), and weren't ranked #2 in the AP poll until USC struggled with Arizona State.
If you go undefeated and are left out of the title game, that's one thing- it's quite another if you have already lost a game. The lesson: don't lose, and hope for the best, but as I know all too well, things don't always fall your way.
badgerballer said:
posted on November 20, 2006 5:34 PM — 4.225.194.152 — link — abuse?
Hey, I'm completely aware that Wisconsin played a soft schedule, & that as a result, is not/should not be considered in the nat'l title hunt. (I'm not THAT much of a homer). All I'm bitching about is not even getting MENTIONED in the same breath as the other one (or two, or three, or....) loss teams. I mean, its like we don't even exist.
This is not a championship caliber team, but this Wisconsin team could play with *most* of the top 15. We could, and in my opinion would, beat Rutgers, LSU, Bosie, and the rest of the 'middle teir'. And could stay on the field with Florida, N. Dame, Arkansas.
I think the root of this gripe with the BCS is one that's been made a million times, the fact that if you start out low, or unranked, in the polls its virtually impossible to really get into the hunt.
Yes, we've played a pathetic non-conference schedule, but within the Big10, we're all beating up on the same schools - Iowa, Northwestern, Purdont, State Penn, Minnesota, et. al. Everyone - EVERYONE - has played a couple of roll-overs in non-conference. Just look as OSU, especially if Texas loses another game or two. But, starting off #1 has its advantages.
And yes, even if Wisconsin finishes in the top 8, and OSU, Michigan rematch, we're left out of the Rose Bowl due to the "2 team max" componenet of the BCS.
This system sux.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 5:48 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Mick:
I fully understand that Ohio State played badly and still won the game. That is my point. That is why Michigan does not get another shot. I will still have Ohio State #1 and favored by a couple over the Trojans. My other point is: play like that against USC and you will lose. Are you going to really have to dispute that? Win a National Championship before you come blabbering at me. I am not impressed with the win over Michigan. Your team did not play as well as they're capable of. You said it with your own mouth. You didn't play well against Illinois and we did not play well against Oregon State amongst others. What is your point?
Tommie T
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 6:05 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
AU03:
Yep, knew it would be an Auburn guy to jump in here. But, hey, I don't think I said beginning - I think the term I might have used was early. Michigan vaulted to #2 after dismantling Notre Dame - if I'm not mistaken. Your splitting peas. Nevertheless, the whole system is flawed, we know it, and there is nothing can be done about it. You guys got shafted by the voters (strongest SOS) because not enough weight was put on the computers. Same, thing happened to USC in 2003. More weight was put back into the computers, 2005, but taken out again this year. USC will probably get the shaft this year (nothing you can do about stupid voters - even though the program has lost six games in six years and Michigan has lost six in the last two years. USC will finish out with six straight wins while Michigan will have lost their very last game - how many times do we have to see this? Every one of those teams lost the BCS National Championship. The whole think is a mess. Who cares? I'm glad we made it to the Rose Bowl this year. Lucky, Auburn didn't win one more or your team would be gettin' the shaft again.
Tommie T
TrojanHorse said:
posted on November 20, 2006 6:24 PM — 155.104.37.18 — link — abuse?
Badgerball, you make many excellent points and most of all being that those who start unranked or lower than 12 (my randomly selected ranking) have a really difficult time moving up to NC consideration, I wholeheartedly agree and do not like it either.
Personally I think UM and OSU are just hairs above UW scheduling wise. Don't get me wrong I am not inferring in anyway shape or form that those two are not excellent teams so don't even go there. I am saying their schedules suck too
The 2 team max is a blessing and a curse. I'm not sure I want to see 3 B10 (or any conf) teams in the BCS bowls, yet, I can see how someone could get the royal shaft as well
Finally though, non con scheduling is chosen unlike conf scheduling and if a team schedules ALL patsies and even stoops to 1AA teams then you reap the rewards that you voluntarily chose
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 6:46 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Cane_Nation:
I can agree with what you say normally - but, the eyes can be deceiving. I'll give you some examples:
1st game this season: Florida State 10 Miami 7. I'm watchin' the game figuring that I am watching two really tremendous defenses. That is what it looked like to me. I could not imagine that those two offenses were really that bad. Turns out, after the course of a year, that they really were. And, the stats don't lie.
Michigan-Ohio State. Both defenses rated #1 and #2 in the country. I saw no defense at all. Sorry people - there was none played. What my eyes saw tell me these defenses are no better than average. Someone on Michigan also said that Ohio State's defense was no more than ordinary. That tells me how bad the Big 10 is and what happens when you schedule a bunch of MAC games for OOC games. In this case the eyes say it all.
Now, this game wasn't much different than the USC-Texas game last year. Difference is: both teams came into the game averaging 50+ PPG. So, a 41-38 score was about right.
So, when I watch the USC defense - I usually see a really tremendous defense. Oh, you can do little tricks to not play into the strength of it, like Washington, WSU and Oregon State did - or, you can get totally demolished. Arkansas got 14, Nebraska got 10, Oregon got 10 and California got 9. These were the "Big Games". These teams all average more than 30+ points - but they can't do anything against this defense. The stats don't lie in this case. And, to be giving up only 14.0 per game against this schedule? Well, I don't think anybody is gonna have any fun with this group.
Remember those Miami defenses? I am sure you do. I still remember those defenses. Oh sure, the QB's and RB's got the glory - but the heart of those teams was that relentless defense. Miami was like that for years and years because of that tremendous defense. Florida State had that going also. Nebraska was more of an offensive team. USC wants to be both. Neither Ohio State or Michigan has any defense. Hope they both get to play anybody else so that it can be proven.Tommie T
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 20, 2006 6:53 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Hey, check out the Buckeye! He wants to play Michigan again. That pretty much says it all! Hey, why not USC, Florida, Arkansas, West Virginia, Notre Dame or Louisville? Oh wait, Wisconsin is a one loss team also. Would you rather try them?
Tommie T
So Cal USMC said:
posted on November 20, 2006 6:54 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Jarred (from the BCS week 5 blog),
- Post 408, the whole "sec vs pac" debate may have happend before you got here, but this particular issue was Not About That -- I just wanted it to be known that I didnt 'take it there', since K-Hue, the Blog-Master-Blaster, accuses me of doing that... he gets pissy about it (Me: hands up like a DB being accused of a pass-interference by the WR to the refs)... anyway....
YES! Arkansas is one of the most Experience teams... 19 RETURNING STARTERS!!! thats the most of any team I know of, heading into this season. Thats part of the reason I had Arkansas pegged as one of the "Most Improve" teams (I was really close to picking Arkansas over Auburn to win the SEC West)... whoever was overly Surprised with Arkansas' success this year, shouldve been paying attention (Tennessee, Arizona also up on that list btw). And now I have to sell you on Peyton Hillis and and Felix Jones !?! That iz pretty funny stuff. Jones has a better Yards/Carry avgerage than McFadden, he's had over 100 carries... Hillis was one of the most versatile Fullbacks in the Country (heading into this season), lead the team in Receptions a year ago and had pleanty of carries. And Who-tha-fugk said that Johnson was Arkansas' "best QB"? ... Im stating facts, hommie. "Most Experienced", Robert Johnson = Junior, Most Pass Attempts of any Arkansas QB as of Game-Day vs USC. Dick may have been the 1st-stringer and the better QB (Im not disagreeing), but he wasnt the most experienced. AND THATS WHAT I AM saying to you about "trying" to make it seem like Casey Dick was some great improvement over Johnson... thats Ridiculous! and even moreso with Arkansas being Run-Run team.
USC's most recent game (vs Cal):
Started its 4th-String Fullback or maybe 5th-string; 1st FB Handcock (knees), 2nd Powdrell (ankle), 3rd Havili (leg)... 4th/5th/6th one's a WALK-ON, the other is a part-time Linebacker, and one is a part-time KICKER!
Chauncey Washington has knee-issues, rushed for only 39 yards on 12 carries! 2nd-sting RB Moody (ankle), did not play... 3rd-String Runningback had to carry the load, 112 yards/19 carries
SNAFU said:
posted on November 20, 2006 7:01 PM — 24.252.206.106 — link — abuse?
TT,
Your thinking is flawed just like the BCS. You are sooooo high on your silly little Trojans this year. Past years, maybe, just look at the scores SC put up the last three years. That tells me the Pac-10 is just as weak year to year as the Big 1, Big 2, MAC and the patty WAC. This year SC has come back down to terra firma. Your comments about the OSU/UM game are unbelievable, “USC will demolish Ohio State or Michigan, Did you see any pass rush, any tackling, any hard hitting?” You obviously were away from the tube when Smith and Henne were scrambling and getting sacked five times. Granted this game was no slug fest but you thinking SC is going to put up big numbers (i.e. demolish) against OSU/UM will not happen. Just remember back to last years SC/Texas game. It turned out to be as you say “a no pass rush, no tackling, no hard hitting game”. Texas 41, USC 38 Hmmm, kind’a sounds like a fast-break game right their. Anyway, since you’re such a big numbers guy here’s my top ten flawed BCS numbers.
1. OSU
2. Boise State (at least they beat Oregon State)
3. Michigan
4. Wisconson (Lost to #2 UM by less than ND)
5. ND (Lost to #2 UM)
6. Florida
7. USC (Lost to Oregon State)
8. Are Kansas (because they lost to USC)
9. WV (because the BSC had high hopes this year and they are a 1 loss team)
10. Louisville (because they are a 1 loss team)By the way, glade to see that Life Care package is paying off for ya and move me up to number three on your stupid list.
Kevin Donahue said:
posted on November 19, 2006 5:20 PM — link — abuse?From the remaining schedules, I would say that Michigan has little chance to make the championship game if USC/Notre Dame/Florida win out. Everyone else looks to be too far back to jump up into the title game ahead of Michigan.