Fanbogs - College Football Weblogs

September 13, 2005

Fanblogs XIV: Week 3 Poll

Poll of the Fanblogs.com authors & contributors for games played through September 13, 2005:

First place votes in parenthesis. Weighted ballot points appear beside team name. Teams are ranked on likelyhood to beat lower ranked teams on a neutral field, rather than a forecast of final season rankings.


1. Southern California (9) 165
2. Texas (3) 159
3. LSU 126
4. Virginia Tech 120
5. Tennessee 116
6. Georgia 94
7. Florida 84
8. Ohio St. 83
9. Florida St. 72
10. Louisville 49
11. Notre Dame 45
12. Purdue 30
13. Michigan 25
14. Miami (Fla.) 23


Others Receiving Votes:
California 19, Arizona St. 12, Alabama 7, Georgia Tech 7, Virginia 7, Boston College 6, Clemson 3, Oklahoma 3, Texas Tech 3, Iowa 2


How they voted:
Kevin Donahue:1) Southern California, 2) Texas, 3) LSU, 4) Tennessee, 5) Virginia Tech, 6) Ohio St., 7) Notre Dame, 8) Florida St., 9) Georgia, 10) Florida, 11) Michigan, 12) Boston College, 13) Purdue, 14) Clemson

Pete Holiday:1) Southern California, 2) Texas, 3) Ohio St., 4) LSU, 5) Virginia Tech, 6) Georgia, 7) Arizona St., 8) Notre Dame, 9) Florida, 10) Florida St., 11) California, 12) Purdue, 13) Michigan, 14) Tennessee

Dave Frey:1) Southern California, 2) Texas, 3) Tennessee, 4) LSU, 5) Virginia Tech, 6) Ohio St., 7) Florida St., 8) Florida, 9) Michigan, 10) Georgia, 11) Miami (Fla.), 12) Purdue, 13) Oklahoma, 14) California

Jeff Quinton:1) Texas, 2) Southern California, 3) Virginia Tech, 4) Tennessee, 5) Florida St., 6) LSU, 7) Miami (Fla.), 8) Florida, 9) Georgia, 10) Ohio St., 11) California, 12) Louisville, 13) Notre Dame, 14) Boston College

John Ludwig:1) Southern California, 2) Texas, 3) LSU, 4) Tennessee, 5) Ohio St., 6) Florida St., 7) Virginia Tech, 8) Florida, 9) Georgia, 10) Miami (Fla.), 11) Michigan, 12) Arizona St., 13) Iowa, 14) Oklahoma

Mike Boone:1) Southern California, 2) Texas, 3) Virginia Tech, 4) LSU, 5) Tennessee, 6) Florida, 7) Georgia, 8) Florida St., 9) Ohio St., 10) Purdue, 11) Louisville, 12) Notre Dame, 13) California, 14) Boston College

Josh McClain:1) Southern California, 2) Texas, 3) Tennessee, 4) Georgia, 5) Louisville, 6) Virginia Tech, 7) LSU, 8) Virginia, 9) Purdue, 10) Ohio St., 11) Florida, 12) Texas Tech, 13) Notre Dame, 14) Arizona St.

Dave:1) Southern California, 2) Texas, 3) Georgia, 4) Tennessee, 5) LSU, 6) Virginia Tech, 7) Notre Dame, 8) Ohio St., 9) Louisville, 10) Florida, 11) Florida St., 12) Michigan, 13) Georgia Tech, 14) Boston College

Robert Knodell:1) Texas, 2) Southern California, 3) Florida St., 4) LSU, 5) Virginia Tech, 6) Georgia, 7) Florida, 8) Purdue, 9) Louisville, 10) Ohio St., 11) Tennessee, 12) Alabama, 13) Notre Dame, 14) Georgia Tech

Michael Hickerson:1) Texas, 2) Southern California, 3) Tennessee, 4) Louisville, 5) LSU, 6) Virginia Tech, 7) California, 8) Florida, 9) Georgia, 10) Notre Dame, 11) Alabama, 12) Georgia Tech, 13) Clemson, 14) Florida St.

Aaron White:1) Southern California, 2) Texas, 3) Tennessee, 4) Virginia Tech, 5) LSU, 6) Ohio St., 7) Georgia, 8) Florida, 9) Michigan, 10) Florida St., 11) Louisville, 12) Miami (Fla.), 13) Purdue, 14) Notre Dame

MisterIrrelevant.com:1) Southern California, 2) Texas, 3) Florida, 4) LSU, 5) Virginia Tech, 6) Tennessee, 7) Georgia, 8) Notre Dame, 9) Ohio St., 10) Louisville, 11) Florida St., 12) Miami (Fla.), 13) Purdue, 14) Georgia Tech

Posted by Kevin Donahue

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Comments:

  1. Cumberland Ave said:

    posted on September 13, 2005 6:53 PM — 24.215.202.246 — link — abuse?



    Three of your authors/contributors are obviously biased against Tennessee.

  2. Fanblogs Author Kevin Donahue said:

    posted on September 13, 2005 7:50 PM — link — abuse?



    I rather suspect that all the authors could clearly express why they feel more than just a couple other teams could beat UT on a neutral field.

  3. Fanblogs Author Jeff Quinton said:

    posted on September 13, 2005 8:09 PM — link — abuse?



    I'm glad Cumberland Avenue commented. It made me re-examine my ranking of Tennessee and decide I probably have them ranked too high. I'll let this week's game be the final arbiter, of course, but I'm glad he gave the chance to reassess things.

  4. Fanblogs Author dave frey said:

    posted on September 13, 2005 8:11 PM — 206.124.221.127 — link — abuse?



    I don't think there's an anti-Tennessee bias at all, even for those voters that ranked Tennessee much lower than everyone else.

    Tennessee is still very much an unknown. The only thing we've got to go on is a single poor performance in which the Vols really struggled against an unranked and vastly inferior opponent on their home field.

    Clearly, some of us feel the Vols are much better than what we saw that night, and some of us don't. Neither position strikes me as unreasonable; both are just guesses.

  5. Mike said:

    posted on September 13, 2005 10:15 PM — 68.35.231.61 — link — abuse?



    I'll tell you straight up, after what I saw LSU and Texas do this week I think Tennessee being in the top 5 is about the best a Vols fan could hope for. If they can go into Ben Hill Griffin and snatch a third win in a row and then beat LSU in Death Valley, I think that UT would have a case. As it is, they belong where they are.

    PS I can't wait to see how the SEC shakes out this year in the East with all of the Big 3 looking strong at the start of the season.

  6. Fanblogs Author Robert Knodell said:

    posted on September 13, 2005 10:52 PM — 12.217.43.245 — link — abuse?



    Yes, if UT wins both of their next two games, I think they're definitely a Top 3 team, with a good case for #2 or even #1 votes, depending on what SC and Texas do.

    If they win one of the two (which I sort of expect, being that both are on the road), they're still a Top 10 or 12 team, depending on how bad their loss is and what other teams do. From that spot, they could still climb back up the rankings into BCS contention should they win out and/or win the SEC.

    If they lose both, they're still a Top 20 team (unless they get totally hammered), but a 1-2 record with the only win being a close one vs. UAB won't get you much respect.

    It's a tough stretch for the Vols, but we'll surely know more about their team in two weeks than we'll know about 90% of the rest of the teams. That will work in their favor (ranking-wise) if they win both and aim to run the table, yet avoid the title-game freeze-out Auburn faced.

  7. Fanblogs Author Pete Holiday said:

    posted on September 13, 2005 11:43 PM — 156.56.168.36 — link — abuse?



    Just to echo what the rest of the crew has said, I agree.

    They've played one game... a win by seven points over a team that, by all measures, they should've had warming up the bus in the first quarter.

    I think 1-1 is a pretty likely bet for their next two games... and if they do that, I'll be happy to move them up. If it looks like they deserve it. But on the "strength" of their to-date performance?

    I'm not believing the hype.

  8. Fanblogs Author Josh McClain said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 2:06 AM — 70.162.5.208 — link — abuse?



    FWIW - I ranked Tennessee third every week so far this season, and the last two, I've thought long and hard about dropping them. I just have a real issue with dropping teams when they win. But Jeff put it best, I suspect I've ranked them too high for a while now - it may be time to bring them back to earth. That "destruction" of UAB really showed me a lot.

  9. CumberlandAve said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 7:47 AM — 24.215.202.246 — link — abuse?



    Hey guys,

    Thanks for your insightful comments about Tennessee. I'm not a big proponent of early season polls in the first place. I don't think it makes much sense to rank teams after they've played only one or two games. The extant poll system is primarily based on last season and the bowl games early on in the season. Let's not forget that Tennessee was not very productive on offense last year until the SEC championship game and the Cotton Bowl. Given the fact that most of the preseason polls ranked Tennessee in the Top 3, I think it's an anomaly at this point to drop the Vols as low as #6, #11 or #14. Minus a few interceptions against UAB, the Vols may have put up as many as 38 points against UAB. One good thing that Tennessee has shown me so far is that they have a good defense. Word is still out on the Vols and I think they have a lot of work to do in order to beat Florida and LSU. A lot of other teams have not shown us much either and frankly we don't really know whether Notre Dame's win over Michigan will mean anything later on in the year. Nor do we know whether LSU's win over Arizona State and Texas' win over Ohio State will mean anything by year's end. At this point, our judgment of all the teams is based on our preconceived notions of their excellence or lack thereof based on their achievements in 2004-05. UT may turn out to be a lackluster team or they may end up winning the national championship or somewhere in between. No one knows at this point. Given the fact that the Vols were ranked as high as #3 in most polls in the preseason rankings and the fact that they won their first game, albeit by a margin less than expected, I don't understand the rationale of any pollster who drops the Vols to #11 or #14. If the Vols lose to Florida and LSU by large margins, then you can be justified in dropping them in the polls. I try to watch each of the teams and assess their talent on the playing field each week. Frankly, LSU didn't look too hot against ASU until the Sun Devils's special teams made some boneheaded decisions. Neither team played any defense. I'm glad LSU won though. I think Notre Dame now has a coaching staff that knows how to get the best out of the players. The problem is the Irish have a tougher schedule than even Tennessee. Georgia struggled mightily to beat South Carolina, a team that barely won its first game against a weak opponent, yet I don't see anyone ranking Georgia as low as #14. Tennessee may end up having a miserable year given the strength of their schedule, but I think it is too early in the season to rank the Vols as low as #11 or #14. And let's face it, both Miami and Florida State played poorly against one another and neither of those teams has a proven QB. For now, I think I would rank Tennessee #4 or #5 given the fact that the Vols were ranked #3 or #4 in the preseason and they won their first game in a less than estimable fashion.

  10. Fanblogs Author Pete Holiday said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 11:22 AM — 156.56.168.36 — link — abuse?



    The early season polls are either worthy or not, Cumberland... if you don't think they're worthy, don't cite them in your argument as a reason not to rank the Vols low.

    "At this point, our judgment of all the teams is based on our preconceived notions of their excellence or lack thereof based on their achievements in 2004-05."

    True, to an extent... and that's the only reason why Tennessee is ranked in the top 25 at all. If they didn't have the initial high ranking a 7-point win over UAB wouldn't land them a single vote, let alone a top 5 ranking.

    It's not "too early in the season" to rank the Vols low. To quote the poll methodology:

    "Teams are ranked on likelihood to beat lower ranked teams on a neutral field, rather than a forecast of final season rankings."

    So, what your argument comes down to is "Who cares what Tennessee has done on the field, some media guys said they were really good before the season started, so we need to leave them there!"

    It just doesn't fly. Tennessee hasn't done anything to prove that they deserve a top 10 spot and, frankly, I don't care what UT might have done if they hadn't thrown interceptions. They did throw interceptions, and they barely beat UAB. That's what happened. Every team in the nation can play the "If we didn't" game... but hypotheticals don't win National Titles.

    LSU beat a very spunky Arizona State team (and one that didn't get the hype the deserved in the pre-season) and Georgia had a game against one of the best active coaches in college football. Spurrier is no Bear Bryant, but it was once said of The Bear that he could 'take his and beat yours, or take yours and beat his' -- Spurrier is a good enough coach that the same sort of philosophy applies -- his coaching talent will be able to overcome some talent deficiencies with his players.

    If we ignore the hype, on the basis of to-date performance only, Tennessee is the most overrated team in the NCAA. Hands down. No questions asked.

    Are they better than they played against UAB? For the SEC's sake I hope so... but the question is "how much better?"

  11. Cumberland Ave said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 1:29 PM — 24.215.202.246 — link — abuse?



    Hey Robert,

    First, I'd like to point out to you that Tennessee was in the red zone with over a minute to go in the game against UAB and the Vols took a knee on three consecutive snaps. Bar another pass interception, the final score could have easily been UT 24 and UAB 10.

    Of the teams that received votes in the Fanblogs' contributors poll, I have only seen games involving SoCal, Texas, LSU, VaTech, UT, Georgia, Ohio State, Fla. State, Louisville, Notre Dame, Michigan, Miami, ASU, Clemson and Oklahoma.

    With the exception of Florida State, Miami and Oklahoma, all these teams impressed me.

    As for preseason polls, I don't place much weight in them. Given the polling system we have, one must move a team up or down from its preseason ranking based on performances this season. UT beat UAB 17-10. A score of 24-10 or even an even wider margin would probably more accurately reflect the relative strengths of UAB and UT.

    I don't understand the logic of moving UT down from a preseason ranking of #3 to a ranking of #11 or #14 in light of the Vols' win over UAB. How many other teams in the rankings have fallen that much after winning a game? None.

    Regarding Steve Spurrier's magic, I did not see it in South Carolina's first game. The Gamecocks nearly lost. If you are so gung ho about Spurrier, then why don't you have South Carolina ranked in your Top 14?

    Could it be that you suspect that both South Carolina and Georgia are not so good? Apparently not since you have elevated Georgia to #6 in your poll based on a close win over South Carolina.

    What proof do you have that South Carolina and Georgia are any better than UAB? No one knows now.

    Spurrier is a great college coach. Don't get me wrong. I saw his talent as a player firsthand when he played for Science Hill in Johnson City, Tennessee. I have followed his career as a player and a coach and I respect him, but I don't think South Carolina is a great team yet. Georgia is not nearly as good as they have been in recent years.

    In my opinion, LSU's QB is much better than he was last year, but I don't think the Tigers, at this point, have a good defense. ASU basically allowed LSU's defensive line to rush untouched on the blocked punt. There was not much blocking going on when LSU blocked ASU's field goal either. I think those two LSU TDs resulted more from ASU's mistakes than from LSU's rush.

    I have not seen Florida play yet. I don't know what to make of the Gators under Urban Meyer. The fact that Florida allowed Wyoming to score 14 points tells me that the Vols can score at least 14 points perhaps more against Florida.

    I do not know the relative strength of UAB and Wyoming and Louisiana Tech, but my guess is that UAB is much better than Wyoming or Louisiana Tech. I was very impressed with UAB's QB. UAB was picked in preseason polls to finish first or second in their conference.

    Can anyone really judge how well Florida will play against SEC teams this season based on their performance against Wyoming and Louisiana Tech? If your insights about college football are that great, more power to you.

    I think UT can score about 17-24 points against Florida. I think Florida will score about 13-17 against UT. We'll find out on Saturday.

  12. Cumberland Ave said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 2:13 PM — 24.215.202.246 — link — abuse?



    Hey Robert,

    You wrote: "Teams are ranked on likelihood to beat lower ranked teams on a neutral field, rather than a forecast of final season rankings."

    Let's just take a brief look at the criteria that one must rely upon to rank teams in preseason or after one or two weeks of competition in the new season.

    I'll compare Tennessee and Florida since that is one of the big college games on Sept. 17.

    First, UT was ranked higher than Florida in preseason. The Vols' highest ranking was #3. Pollsters arrived at that ranking based on several fators:

    1. Win/loss record in 2004-05
    2. Bowl games in 2004-05
    3. Assessment of players and coaches
    4. Recruiting
    5. Spring and summer practices and scrimmages
    6. Media reports

    To adjust preseason rankings,at this point, one must look at several things:

    1. Results in games during week one and two
    2. Injury reports
    3. Assessment of current players and coaches' abilities this season
    4. Margin of victory or defeat
    5. Relative skill of one's opponents in week one and two

    Currently, UT and Florida are undefeated. UT was ranked higher in preseason polls than Florida. UT had a better freshman and JUCO recruiting than Florida.

    Let's look at game one for both teams. Florida beat Wyoming 31-14. UT beat UAB 17-10. I want to add here that UT was inside the UAB 10-yard line with over a minute to go in their game and chose to take a knee on three consecutive snaps with first down and goal to go instead of trying for another likely TD.

    If you will be so kind as to give UT fans the benefit of the doubt and admit that, at the very least, UT 24 and UAB 10 is a better reflection of the relative strengths of these two teams, then I can argue that the relative margin of victory of UT vs. UAB and Florida vs. Wyoming is not much different. Perhaps, I am wrong in thinking that Florida could have run up the score against Wyoming. I did not see Florida play Wyoming, so I don't know. I did watch UT play UAB. I know what the Vols' strengths and weaknesses were in that lackluster effort against UAB.

    If the margin of victor for UT vs. UAB can be assessed at 14 points and the margin of victory for Florida over Wyoming can be determined as 17 points, then I don't see much reason to lower UT's ranking after game one while elevating Florida's ranking. Therfore, I think it is logical to keep UT higher ranked than Florida after week one.

    UT did not play in week two, so we have no further basis of evaluation for UT other than injury reports and the status update on UT players that did not play in game one.

    Given the fact that some of UT's starters were not available to play against UAB but will play against Florida, we have one basis to think that UT may be better prepared to play good football in week two. UT also had a week off to allow players to recover from injuries and to devise a game plan for Florida.

    Meanwhile, Florida risked injury to some players and played a weak opponent in Louisiana Tech in week two. No basis there to elevate Florida over UT.

    That said, I think it will be a close game and I hope UT can pull out its third consecutive win in The Swamp.

  13. Cumberland Ave said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 2:16 PM — 24.215.202.246 — link — abuse?



    Hey guys,

    I actually meant to adress Pete's comments in my last post, but the logic applies regardless of the contributors to the Fanblogs' poll.

  14. Michael said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 2:40 PM — 209.194.80.90 — link — abuse?



    When I vote, I do my best to put aside my natural I love all things Tennessee bias (I know...some of you just fainted upon hearing that one..) and vote for the teams that I think deserve to be in the top number of slots we get to vote for. It's not easy..but I am glad our poll doesn't determine anything important cause that'd be even more pressure on me. LOL

  15. Fanblogs Author Robert Knodell said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 2:49 PM — 168.166.54.11 — link — abuse?



    CumberlandAve, using your "logic" and literary and mathematical skills, I'm the guy who voted Tennessee #15 in a Top 14 poll this week(as you stated here). I still haven't figured that one out yet.

    With your obvious counting skills, you should have counted votes in Florida for your fellow Tennessean, Al Gore, in 2000. Perhaps he would be in the White House today.

    I'm assume you're aware that Florida is a 6 1/2 point favorite this weekend (that's all the fingers on one hand, and 1 and 1/2 fingers on the other...). I'm sure the oddsmakers are just "biased" against UT, just as I am, Pete is, ESPN is, and anybody you don't agree with is.

  16. Fanblogs Author Kevin Donahue said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 3:07 PM — link — abuse?



    Let's not make assumptions on how many whole or half fingers Tennessee fans might have on each hand.

  17. Cumberland Ave said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 3:20 PM — 24.215.202.246 — link — abuse?



    Hey Robert,

    I think my incorrectly commenting that you had ranked Tennessee #15 rather than the actual #11 ranking that you gave the Vols is attributable to oversight or a lapse in memory or perhaps carelessnes on my part.

    The fact remains that you and Pete are the only Fanblogs' pollsters that ranked UT below the Top 10.In fact, you, Pete and MisterIrrelevant.com are the only pollsters that I have seen online or in print media that have Florida ranked ahead of Tennessee. Maybe you guys are right. I just don't see the logic or reasoning behind your assessment of the Vols.

    I also don't understand the logic of elevating Alabama to the Top 15 based on a 26-7 win over MTSU and a close 30-21 win over Southern Mississippi. My guess is that UAB is at least on par with Southern Miss. If so, why push UT down in the polls for slightly beating UAB and elevating Bama due to a close win over Southern Miss.?

    Frankly, I am not overly confident about UT. I've said I think it will be a close game. Florida may win, maybe not. I hope the results on Saturday will renew everyone's confidence in UT.

    UT and Florida will answer things on Saturday.

  18. Fanblogs Author Pete Holiday said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 3:40 PM — 156.56.168.156 — link — abuse?



    Bottom line here, that no amount of verbal diarrhea can dispute, is that Tennessee has not proven themselves to be a top 10 football team. Period.

    You can erect straw men about SCar's first game if you want (although in doing that you validate my point about UT not deserving a top 10 spot), you can talk about injury reports and so on, but the bottom line is that UT has not produced. Period.

    I think it's just as easy to say that UT took a knee in that final drive to keep from turning the ball over and giving UAB a shot to win, not to have mercy on them. When was the last time any college football team stopped "running up the score" at 7 points. Lame argument.

    The reason you don't see the logic or reasoning is because you choose not to. Tennesse has not produced at the level of a top 10 team. If that changes this week, I'll be happy to move them up. I will say this, though: unless it's an ugly loss, a loss to Florida this weekend will not drop them in my poll... it will only reaffirm that I had them in the right spot to begin with.

    If they win, they'll likely move up. It's all about production. Many a talented team has performed poorly throughout a season... until UT proves that they can play with the big boys, they get no Top 10 love from me. This is the same reason that I do not have OU ranked in the top 14 at all -- big hype in the pre-season, no production thus far.

    So, if you're still having a hard time with the "logic" or "reasoning" -- then I daresay you ought to actually watch some football and take your orange-colored glasses off.

  19. Fanblogs Author Pete Holiday said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 3:44 PM — 156.56.168.156 — link — abuse?



    PS: I'll spare you the math, but alabama is not #15. Our poll ranks 14 spots and then enumerates the others receiving votes.

    Because 15 spots are not voted on by everyone, it's a statistical and mathematical fallacy to infer that they're #15 because they received more votes than any other non-ranked team.

    In fact, 'Bama's elevation probably has more to do with a less diverse opinion of the top 14 than it does an improvement of the opinion of 'Bama's performance by the authors. Note, also, that one of the people who ranked 'Bama, ranked UT #3.

  20. VOLPIMP said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 5:58 PM — 208.0.27.10 — link — abuse?



    Pete and Cumberland, all I see here is ego talking. Do I think UT deserves a top 5 ranking, no. A 14 is a little questionable as well, everyone of us has a team we don't respect or care for, no matter what the reasons are. Most of the top programs have struggled early so far. Here are the facts...UT has played 1 game, they stunk up the joint and barely won. UAB has a legitimate shot at winning their conference, which includes So. Miss who gave Bama fits. They aren't an elite powerhouse but they aren't a cupcake either, any true football follower who studies other teams than their own knows this. Give it a few games, see what happens and then argue about it, the truth is none of us really know who deserves what until about the 5th or 6th game anyway, so the best we can do is look at what has been done recently. Did we suck...yes. Is UAB a decent team...yes again. Until the Vols show different they will be doubted, totally understandable. In my opinion which means nothing to anyone but myself, Top 5 or 14th are both a rough estimate until Fla and LSU either win or lose to the Vols. After that we'll all know the real deal.

  21. Cumberland Ave said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 7:03 PM — 24.215.202.246 — link — abuse?



    Volpimp,

    Well said. I agree with you totally. It just seems strange to me that Pete Holiday and Robert Knodell are the only pollsters anywhere that have ranked UT below the Top 10. For all we know UT may end up below the Top 25 by season's end, but there is not justification for dropping a team from #3 in the polls to #11 or #14 based on a win, even if the win was only 7 points over UAB.

    Pete,

    First, I never said Bama was ranked #15. I said that two of the Fansblog pollsters had ranked Bama in their Top 15. If you want to split hairs and say Top14, that's fine by me. Robert Knodell and Michael Hickerson were the only two pollsters to rank Bama in their Top 14. Overall Bama was #17 on Fanblogs. What exactly has Bama done to prove themselves worthy of the ranking that Michael and Robert gave them. You've got to start with some foundation for moving a team up or down from their preseason ranking. My point is Bama was not a preseason Top 20 team and UT was a preseason Top 3 team. UT won its game and Bama has won two games. Neither team has played a formidable opponent yet. What then is the rationale for moving UT down and Bama up? Did you guys buy into the media hype about UT and expect them to blow out UAB and now since UT did not blow out UAB, you have decided, based on that one fact alone, to drop them out of the Top 10? To my mind, that makes no sense. Your position may be validated by a UT loss to Florida, but until that happens you don't really have any factual basis to drop UT below the Top 10. You basically have done so based on your preconception that UT was overhyped in the preseason polls.

    Michael Hickerson's ranking of UT at #3 and Bama at # 11 makes a whole lot more sense to me than your and Robert Knodell's rankings of UT and Bama to me.

    Two teams in your (Pete's) rankings were ranked below UT in preseason and they both have lost one game (albeit to very good opponents), yet you have them ranked above UT. Let's not forget that Notre Dame beat Michigan last year, too. Yes, I remember that UT lost to Notre Dame. My point here is that no one expected Notre Dame to be any good this year, especially with their strong schedule. I think Notre Dame is good, too, but the wins over Pitt and Michigan don't really put the Irish ahead of where they were at this point last season. I'll grant you that Ohio State is not much worse than Texas. But do we really know yet that Ohio State is better than Michigan this year. Perhaps, Notre Dame should be ranked above Texas, Ohio State and Michigan. Who can know at this point? Isn't Texas ranked high because they beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl and now they have beaten Ohio State this season? Isn't at least the first component of that equation due to media hype about Texas? Notre Dame did not enjoy the preseason media hype that Texas and UT enjoyed, but the Irish may turn out to be better than either one of those teams.

    UT probably took a knee at the end of the game for the very reasons that you mentioned. 1. Fulmer wanted to show good sportsmanship. His team had already proven to everyone that they could sustain a long drive at the end of the game without any additional turnovers and the game was won, so why add on 7 more points just to impress the pollsters. Fulmer is smart enough to know that the only poll that matters is the final BCS poll. 2. Why risk an interception or fumble when you have the game won? UAB might have intercepted the pass and tied or won the game. Another turnover would have lessened Clausen's confidence going into the Florida game. I'm just saying UT's overall efforts against UAB indicated more than a 7-point win.

    I have repeatedly acknowledged that I was not impressed with UT's efforts against UAB. A win is a win though and I don't think anything but a UT loss would justify dropping the Vols from #3 to #11 or #14. I can understand why a pollster would drop them from #3 to #5 or lower in the Top 10.

  22. VOLPIMP said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 8:21 PM — 208.0.27.10 — link — abuse?



    The thing about polls is somewhere in all of us opinion takes over for fact. Robert has FSU at number 4, personally I feel that FSU has had favorable ratings for awhile now simply because they are FSU. After the Miami game, there is no way I would have FSU that high, even though they played Miami. Anyone who saw that game has to agree that both teams looked terrible, but FSU has MAJOR problems at QB, much like Tennessee. But like I said, most of that is opinion on my part. Robert may or may not have seen things the same way I did. Bottom line, and excuse my language, but F**K the BCS, the Coaches poll, and the AP...Give us a playoff, it's the only foolproof answer. Everything is settled on the field, and if a MAC team goes undefeated, they have a chance. Seed the teams like the Final Four and let them go at it.

  23. Fanblogs Author Pete Holiday said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 8:29 PM — 12.223.245.245 — link — abuse?



    VOL"PIMP":
    It's not ego talking here. If it were ego I'd be talking about ... I don't know ... how much I hate that stupid bunch of hicks and their donut eating coach. But I didn't... and despite a dismal performance against a mediocre team, I put them in the top 14.

    Cumberland:
    Bringing 'Bama into this equation is worthless. The discussion is about UT. As I pointed out before, 'Bama did not "move up". They have not yet been ranked by this Poll... they have received votes, but as I pointed out receiving the 17th most votes does not mean that they were ranked 17th. It's not even close to the same thing.

    There are two teams in my rankings above UT who have a loss. This is because despite that loss, they're playing like top 13 teams. Are you suggesting that OSU should drop below UT because the lost to TEXAS while UT should move up because they squeaked by Alabama-Birmingham? That's ridiculous.


    I'm going to tell you one more time what would justify dropping UT from #3 to #14... LACK OF PRODUCTION. Which is what we've gotten. I had UT ranked highly before they showed just how much they didn't deserve it. I was wrong in the preseason.

    If you disagree, this is what you need to show:

    That UT has produced at a level better than all but 9 other teams in this country. If they haven't, then they fail the test to make it into the top 10 for my ballot.

    I'm not going to respond to anything further unless you start making a case FOR Tennessee because your inability to do so is only further proof that they don't belong in the top 10. If a FAN can't even make the case... well... that's sad.

  24. VOLPIMP said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 8:39 PM — 208.0.27.10 — link — abuse?



    Pete, Pete, Pete if it's not ego then why are you dead set at proving you are right? If Cumberland is an idiot then write him off as one and stop trying to prove something. You have your opinion and UT is at 14, you don't have to answer to me, Cumberland, or anybody else bro. And Phil doesn't care for doughnuts, but he will eat the hell out of some wings. And please don't hate us hicks, it only proves to everyone what Cumberland said to begin with...you are biased.

  25. Fanblogs Author Kevin Donahue said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 9:39 PM — link — abuse?



    I think Pete is against schools with green in the mascot. Where's North Texas, Pete? The Mean Green are undefeated!! And don't get me started on Tulane!

  26. VOLPIMP said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 10:01 PM — 208.0.27.10 — link — abuse?



    Pete has every right to vote us at 114 if he wishes, and in 3 more games we damn well may be there. My point is who cares if Pete, Cumberland or myself think we are right. There are 10,000 other people who disagree. Which is exactly why 1 person doesn't have control of the polls. The Vols at 3 are a joke, the Vols at 14 are a joke. Even UT at 5 is a joke in my book, I would say 9 or 10 at best after the UAB game. Stick to football, good hits, close games, good natured bashing, and objective criticism. From what I've seen in here so far most people are up on their games and teams, damn don't turn it into a friggin' chatroom full of morons screaming my team is better than yours.

  27. Fanblogs Author Robert Knodell said:

    posted on September 14, 2005 11:11 PM — 12.217.43.245 — link — abuse?



    CumberlandAve:
    If you want to bring Alabama into the equation, that's fine. Bama played Southern Miss at home--a team predicted to finish atop the C-USA East--and beat them by 9. Should've beaten them worse. UT played UAB at home--a team universally picked to finish BELOW Southern Miss in the C-USA standings--and beats them by only 7. Should've beaten them worse.

    By that logic, I should've ranked UA AHEAD of UT, but I didn't. Why? Because I believe that right now, UT would beat UA on a neutral field. And I believe neither team would beat the teams ranked above them on a neutral field. I can't prove that to be conclusively true and you can't prove it to be conclusively untrue.

    Early-season rankings are a turkey shoot, which is why it puzzles me as to why you're getting so twitterpatted and worked up over it. Once the teams have a body of work you can build a case with, THEN your partisan banter will make some sense. Right now, all you have going for you is a pretty lame game vs. UAB.

  28. VOLPIMP said:

    posted on September 15, 2005 7:16 PM — 208.0.27.10 — link — abuse?



    Robert, very good point, we see things much the same. I assume you are a Bama fan. UT - FLA is a hate rivalry, UT - Bama is a football rivalry, with a dash of hate. I hated the Tide in the 90's when we couldn't beat them for shit. Then we turned the tables and won for awhile, but it is a respected rivalry, even if Phil made it ugly. I always look forward to the game, win or lose.

  29. Cumberland Ave said:

    posted on September 16, 2005 8:51 AM — 24.215.202.246 — link — abuse?



    Hey guys,

    I think we all agree that UT did NOT meet everyone's preseason expectations in its game against UAB.

    I fully accept that the Vols have not done anything on the field to warrant their preseason hype.

    The fact remains though that the Vols were ranked # 3 and they have not yet lost a game this season.

    What I take issue with is pollsters who want to lower UT out of the Top 10 simply because the Vols did NOT meet the spread of 21 points against UAB.

    As I have said before, if UT had not taken a knee on three consecutive plays at game's end, the Vols would have won 24-10 That margin of victory would have fallen short of the spread by only 7 points.

    Were the Vols lackluster against UAB? Yes!

    Does that warrant a drop to #11 or #14 from a preseason ranking of #3? In my opinion and that of all the pollsters except two, the answer is NO!

    It seems to me that those two pollsters in the minority are the ones who should be providing justification for their ranking the Vols #11 and #14, respectively, not I.

    As for my comparison of UT/UAB and Bama/Southern Miss, I agree that the argument could be made that Bama is slightly more deserving of a good ranking, at this point, than UT. However, my reason for ranking UT higher than Bama, at this point, is that UT was ranked #3 preseason, whereas Bama was not even in the Top 15 in any preseason poll. There is less justification for raising Bama as the result of a 9-point win over Southern Miss than there is for lowering UT from #3 to #11 or #14 after a 7-point win over UAB. It's all relative to where you start out in the preseason polls until more games have been played and pollsters have more information about the teams upon which to judge their respective merits.

    I might add that Urban Meyer commented on ESPN last night that UT has the best talent he has seen in the past twenty years.

  30. Fanblogs Author Jeff Quinton said:

    posted on September 17, 2005 11:11 AM — link — abuse?



    Coachspeak the week of the game about the talent level at a rival is not proof of anything.

  31. Cumberland Ave said:

    posted on September 18, 2005 9:23 AM — 24.215.202.246 — link — abuse?



    Hey guys,

    Florida 16 UT 7

    UT and Florida have great defenses.

    UT's offense is inefficient and Florida's offense needs some work.

    UT's special teams are very poor and Florida's special teams are good, but not great.

    It's too bad that a controversal reversal of Brett Smith's catch on the one-yard line cost UT 7 points and a 14-7 lead over the Gators at halftime. The replay suggested to me that he caught the ball, that a portion of the ball touched the ground after he caught it and still had one arm under the ball and then he pulled it back to his chest with two arms under the ball.

    Regardless of your interpretation of that replay, it still stands that UT did not deserve to win against Florida.

    The fumbled punt. Freshman punter Dustin Colquitt's bad decision to throw the ball on fourth down instead of punting it away to Florida and his 8-yard punt later in the game. UT's inept offense in the second half. All these factors cost UT a win over Florida.

    UT has one of the best defenses in the SEC, perhaps in the nation, but until the Vols get some offense, UT will have trouble with the best teams in the SEC.

    UT still has a shot at the SEC East because Florida has yet to play LSU, Alabama and Georgia on the road.

    Here's how I would rank the SEC East now.

    1. Florida
    2. UT
    3. Georgia
    4. South Carolina
    5. Vandy
    6. Kentucky

    Here's how I would rank the SEC West now.

    1. LSU
    2. Bama
    3. Auburn
    4. Ole Miss
    5. Arkansas
    6. Miss. St.

    Southern California and Virginia Tech, in my opinion, are the only two teams worthy of making it to a national championship game right now. Texas and Louisville may end up undefeated, but right now I don't think either team is as good as Virginia Tech. I think there are SEC teams with better defenses than Southern Cal, but no SEC team has an offense right now to compete with SoCal.

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