May 9, 2006
Possible Florida violation including Tebow and Spiller
There had been rumors of possible violations involving the Florida Gators and Clemson signee C.J. Spiller in recent weeks and the nature of the alleged incidents was reported Monday. Sources close to the Clemson program have indicated that Florida sent quarterback Tim Tebow, who was already enrolled in school at UF, to spend time with Spiller the night before National Signing Day.
If the allegations turn out to be true, it would be a recruiting violation since "contact between an enrolled player and potential recruits are legal if 'unavoidable and incidental,' like on an official visit, or at a basketball game matching the two players' high schools."
Florida's sports information director said that Gator head coach Urban Meyer and other officials were on the road recruiting this week and unavailable for comment.
Tiger head coach Tommy Bowden's reply to media inquiries:
"I prefer to talk only about my dealings with C.J.," Bowden said Tuesday, "but if Tim Tebow did drive up there on that Tuesday and talk with him, I'd be extremely disappointed. That's a violation of NCAA rules."
Bowden also says he has yet to talk to Meyer. Clemson and Florida have already had apparent tension over last minute recruiting efforts recently. Mike McIntosh was a verbal committment to Clemson until he watched the Super Bowl in Ron Zook's office two nights before Signing Day. He waited and flipped to the Gators the morning of Signing Day.
Comments:
posted on May 9, 2006 2:12 PM — link — abuse?Jeff Quinton said:
If true, it's probably just a secondary but it's a unique secondary. Asst. coaches were suspended from recruiting Clausen at some schools (including Spurrier, Jr.) for contacting him too early.
What sort of self-imposed sanctions would a compliance staff put on a player if any for a recruiting violation?
BrotherB said:
posted on May 9, 2006 3:35 PM — 70.61.125.99 — link — abuse?
While I'm sure this goes on at most big time schools, and maybe more at the Mid Majors, I still think it's wrong. With the advent of the Text Message phenom, I guess it's getting harder to police. Reminds me of the "Johnny B. Good"-ol days.
Steve said:
posted on May 9, 2006 4:30 PM — 68.165.79.239 — link — abuse?
This is a non-issue.
"Florida Sports Information Director Steve McClain said, 'The University of Florida passed along information on signing day (February 1st) to the SEC that Tim Tebow was at C.J.'s house the day before. It was well documented that the two had been friends for quite some time before the recruiting process and Tebow did not visit there with the knowledge of anyone from the coaching staff or University. The moment university officials found out they shared the information with the SEC office."
"They've been friends for a long, long time," said Bob Tebow. "C.J. Spiller came to over to a lot of Timmy's games and Timmy went over to Lake Butler to see him. They played in all-star games together … they're just kids who are great friends and they're friends no matter where they're going to school. This is just a ridiculous allegation. That's all I'm going to say about it."Peterson said:
posted on May 9, 2006 6:18 PM — 199.105.153.68 — link — abuse?
Apparently the Clemson staff was just spreading vicious rumors. After all, if you, as the coach, wanted to know what happened, wouldn't you just ask Spiller? Did they somehow not see him at practice every day?
http://florida.scout.com/2/529361.html
"That was a false report that said he was sent to recruit me. Florida didn't do nothing illegal." - CJ Spiller
posted on May 9, 2006 8:05 PM — link — abuse?
What about this visit was "incidental and unavoidable?"
I've seen a "pre-existing relationship" clause in some recruiting rules but those are as it relates to boosters and extra benefits.
Specifically addressing you Peterson, if nothing wrong happened, why did Florida notify the SEC?
I'm sure if Clemson coaches leaked this rather than some other type of source that the coaches would have already asked Spiller about it.
posted on May 9, 2006 8:40 PM — link — abuse?
The other thing I've thought about as I discussed this issue elsewhere, it would not have been an issue had it not been the night before Signing Day, since that is a dead period.
James in Jax said:
posted on May 9, 2006 11:22 PM — 24.129.200.104 — link — abuse?
say what you want but it's obvious Tebow was there to recruit C.J. His dad is just spewing the Clinton-esque bullschitt. It may go through in a legal venue but everyone knows he was there THE NIGHT BEFORE SIGNING DAY to sway C.J.
Cut the B.S.
J. King said:
posted on May 10, 2006 7:54 AM — 161.51.11.2 — link — abuse?
I see the post that says TT and C.J. were close friends but i have also seen those comments from their camp on several other players which leave me to belive they are untrue. CUM is pushing the envelope with recruiting methods and it is well known.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on May 10, 2006 8:45 AM — 72.146.114.176 — link — abuse?
This is one of the few methods a school with the "name and tradition of" Clemson could employ to try to hurt a school like Florida. It's beyond a non-issue, and if anything it casts Clemson's staff in a very poor light. It also shows them to be pretty naive in the working of the press and NCAA; as the truth comes out, they will invariably look like idiots.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on May 10, 2006 8:58 AM — 72.146.114.176 — link — abuse?
Jeff - UF notified the NCAA as a matter of course. Standard procedure for these cases nowadays. An up-and-up program will instantly self-report about these incidents so there will be no possibility of the NCAA suspecting a bigger problem (i.e. the school trying to cover something up.) And I'm sure they knew that this would go away quickly when the facts came out - the 'incident' in this case is only significant in fantasy-land.
Orson Swindle said:
posted on May 10, 2006 9:48 AM — 68.218.56.4 — link — abuse?
I agree! It's Clinton's fault, clearly. Tebow was actually there to kill Spiller, but was foiled when his parents decided to stay home and watch "Medium" that night. He would have done it, too! The Anderson Independent-Mail said so!
Peter Fallow said:
posted on May 10, 2006 2:03 PM — 159.54.131.7 — link — abuse?
I doubt you'll find a bigger Clemson fan than myself, and I think this whole incident really, really reflects poorly on the Upstate media and Clemson's coaching staff. The most charitable thing you can call it is lazy.
Beyond that, I have to wonder what kind of damage this could cause to Clemson's recruiting efforts in Florida. We've always managed to pull a few great players out of there through the years. I'd hate to see that arguably small pipeline close down.
FBA said:
posted on May 10, 2006 2:10 PM — 192.77.198.12 — link — abuse?
See what the man had to say:
Spiller said Tuesday that he invited Tebow to his final home basketball game on Jan. 31. Spiller said Tebow was the only UF player there that night. Had another UF player been present who was not a friend of Spiller's, it would have been an NCAA violation.
"I invited Tim to come," Spiller said. "It was my Senior Night and I asked him if he could make it. He's my friend. It sounds kind of stupid to me that that could be a violation. He's like my best friend. To me, he didn't violate any rules. He just came to see his friend play his last (home game) on Senior Night."
FSUman79 said:
posted on May 10, 2006 5:53 PM — 192.251.125.85 — link — abuse?
Hey Gatorpilot,I don't know if you read the headline "Possible FLORIDA violation including Tebow and Spiller!" I don't know why you're trying to pass this off as a Clemson problem. It's clear that the gaytors were simply trying to use whatever leverage they had to lure Spiller in. Albeit, it does seem harmless, but please don't pass the buck!!!
FSU0897 said:
posted on May 11, 2006 9:37 AM — 24.249.192.6 — link — abuse?
This should not even be a story, it seems pretty trivial to me.
Somebody did make the comment about Coach Meyer's recruiting tactics. I am curious if anybody out West can comment on things that may have happened out there in his Utah days. We've only seen him down here for a couple of years...
Joe said:
posted on May 11, 2006 12:16 PM — 65.35.218.18 — link — abuse?
It appears the University of "HELL YES WE CHEAT" is right back to their normal ways of doing business.
It is nice to see UF's "Spin machine" on full cycle!!
After the Tank Black fiasco in which the NCAA looked the other way, it would be nice to see a little bit of digging down in Gainesville and its legendary "favoritism and look the other way approach" towards Student athletes.Tebow committed a recruiting violation.. END OF STORY!!
On another front I just wonder had the TANK BLACK situation been seriously pursued by the NCAA would USC's current problems have occurred?Bettyann said:
posted on May 11, 2006 10:18 PM — 65.189.58.16 — link — abuse?
Its just like when the basketball powers tried to accuse Billy of improper recruiting. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. This will turn out to be the same thing. Second tier coaches, such as Bowden, getting upset because they continue to be out recruited.
Gerald said:
posted on May 12, 2006 3:17 PM — 216.113.128.239 — link — abuse?
So Cal Clips:
Reggie Bush promised that he would provide evidence to clear this entire mess up as soon as the draft was over. That was, er, three weeks ago? And now no one is talking to the PAC - 10 and NCAA investigators for fear of incriminating themselves. Sorry buddy, but this stuff is looking real bad for Bush, especially with the IRS sniffing around. Incidentally, profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm claims that the Texans decided not to draft Bush because the Texans' owner and GM felt that Bush lied to both of them to their face when he claimed that he and his family were totally innocent and evidence proving so would be provided "very soon." Do not be mistaken, the Texans' not taking Bush cost Bush not only a ton of prestige, but MILLIONS of dollars. We are not just talking about the difference between #1 overall and #2 overall here. Income taxes in Louisiana are MUCH HIGHER than they are in Texas. Further, Houston (and the state of Texas) are MUCH BIGGER MEDIA MARKETS than New Orleans, meaning MUCH MORE MONEY in local endorsements. When you realize the market size thing in terms of local endorsements, Bush would have actually made more money overall (endorsements plus NFL contract) going to New York at #4 than to New Orleans at #2. So, this scandal cost Bush into the tens of millions of dollars. If Bush did not provide evidence to clear his name when $10 - $20 million dollars were on the line, then face it dude, there isn't any.
Joe said:
posted on May 13, 2006 12:09 AM — 70.127.80.94 — link — abuse?
Recruiting violations are recruiting violations. Doesn't matter if they are reported or not.
If Reggie Bush was involved with agents than USC will have to face the consequences. What is amazing was after FSU's "footlocker" and the incredible NCAA investigation and "witchhunt" that occurred, you would think the NCAA would consider these kinds of issues important. Instead Tank Black and a slew of agents had almost the entire squad of UF "star players" on the payroll. The NCAA totally ignored the whole issue. Anyone remember MO Collins? Well he admitted after the Fiesta Bowl against Nebraska that he was indeed receiving agent money! UF's response "It was an isolated incident and that no other players were involved". Almost two years later the Tank Black issue was uncovered seems this went totally undetected by UF officials for those 2 years. JMO but I think the NCAA dropped the ball and should have done a thorough investigation on how UF could allow this undetected for so long?
The Reggie Bush saga is just another example of the NCAA totally losing all credibility and control over such things. Their enforcement is both arbitrary and prejudicial.
The Tim Tebow incident no matter how innocent should not have occurred. Spiller and Tebow did not attend the same high school and recruiting has very serious rules that must be followed.
Naturally, UF claims complete innocence. However, with just a bit of due dilligence this issue could have been avoided.
Tim Tebow had no business at being at Stiller's house the day before signing day no matter how innocent the visit might have been. He was already enrolled at UF. UF should have warned him about such stuff.
Again, JMHO I think Meyer encouraged him to be there and attempt to influence Spiller who UF coveted.
Had he signed with UF? would anyone's opinion been different?RamblinWreck said:
posted on May 13, 2006 4:44 PM — 68.205.229.70 — link — abuse?
OK, so we're making it against the rules for college bound athletes to have friends who might be going to another college and might suggest that their friend go to the same college? For all of you who say this was a recruiting violation, that is EXACTLY what you are suggesting. Spiller himself has said he invited his friend Tebow to his final high school basketball game. It's just as likely that Spiller told Tebow to withdraw his commitment to Florida and go to Clemson as it is that Tebow asked Spiller to go to Florida. Get over it - it's a non-issue.
Joe said:
posted on May 14, 2006 6:52 AM — 70.127.80.94 — link — abuse?
Ramblin Wreck,
I don't make the rules. Perhaps Tebow and Spiller are life long friends that grew up together sharing each others Gruel.
The point is as a UF enrolled student that had just been signed at the home of a highly sought "unsigned" high school recruit could be a "major NCAA violation" despite whatever the real intentions were of TEBOW being there.
When in doubt such things should be avoided. I am certain the NCAA would totally agree with this thought. Excusing it like UF apparently is isn't the proper response but is typical of any program that might have done something wrong.
Didn't UF state TANK BLACK was no big deal as well?Gatorpilot said:
posted on May 14, 2006 7:40 AM — 72.146.114.176 — link — abuse?
Cool your jets, Joe. UF runs one of, if not the, cleanest programs in the US. I don't know where you get your information but it must not be from an objective source.
The truth is this was one kid visiting another, the school learned of the situation and instantly reported the information to the SEC and NCAA, and those organizations both quickly agreed that there had been no violation.
Worry about something that matters. Like FSU's discipline/coaching problems, their tendency to try to permanently hurt quarterbacks with late hits, and so on. This Tebow "story" is a NON issue.
UFcheats said:
posted on May 14, 2006 9:53 PM — 71.100.213.154 — link — abuse?
Gatorpilot,
You've GOT to be kidding! UF is freakin' ground zero for classlessness, thuggery, and cheating:
*gator players shooting guns at local homes!
*credit card fraud (for books and pizza)
*players getting SUV's from agents (Tank Black)
*Charley Pell (bum)
*Galen Hall (bum#2)
*ATHLETES BEATING FELLOW STUDENTS
*Spurrier (need I say more)UF is a slimy program, in a crappy town, with uglee school colors. Don't blame the rest of us for the program you root for...it's a joke.
Joe said:
posted on May 14, 2006 10:13 PM — 70.127.80.94 — link — abuse?
Gator pilot,
Cleanest program in the US??? According to whom? Remember the school publicity department doesn't count!
By what standard? Suggest you look at probations and sanctions of 1984 and 1990.
My info comes from the record of compliance from NCAA.org. The governing body of college athletics.
Suggest you also explain how the worst agent infiltration on a college campus in CFB history went completely unnoticed at UF for better than 2 years?
As to Tim Tebow being a non- issue, I suggest you tell him to go visit the homes of some potential recruits for 2007. Perhaps he can pick the Panhandle area of Florida? I am sure he has some lifelong 5 star recruits there as well.Lets see how much it will be a non-issue then? Gators dodged a bullet. be thankful.
FSU0897 said:
posted on May 14, 2006 10:29 PM — 12.227.149.133 — link — abuse?
Give me a break Gatorpilot...let your boys play like men, this is football, not pillow fighting. It is obvious your team wilts when placed up against an aggressive defense - I remember watching that Alabama game last season and seeing one demolition of your boys. I know the response is going to be, "we kicked FSU's asses" and you did it soundly. It is not saying a whole lot based on the team we put on the field last year.
You Gator guys need to go take a pee test because you are smoking crack or something to think your damn program is so squeaky clean. Gators are always in denial...
Gatorpilot said:
posted on May 15, 2006 1:23 PM — 72.146.114.176 — link — abuse?
Dude, FSU fans of ALL people talking about running a clean program is a frigging JOKE. That's the dirtiest program in college history.
Talk all the trash you want... you've got a long, lonely stretch of late November Ls on your schedule.
And by any standard, from Spurriers days onward, UF has been an EXTREMELY clean program.
Dodged a bullet... good grief. When the SEC and NCAA "immediately agree that no violation occurred" exactly how did we dodge a bullet? You folks are UNbelievable.
Joe said:
posted on May 16, 2006 5:20 AM — 70.127.80.94 — link — abuse?
So because gator pilot states FSU is the dirtiest program in CFB history this should be considered a factual statement?
Where's your proof gator fan?
Oh and please list all schollies taken, titles stripped, and coaches fired by the NCAA for FSU's actions during Bowden's tenure.
Meanwhile I can go right to NCAA.Org and read the following taken from the NCAA enforcement archives:
January 13, 1985
NCAA Enforcement Department
UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA PLACED ON NCAA PROBATION
"Unfortunately, during the five-year period in which the violations occurred," continued Mr. Toner, "the football coaching staff operated unimpeded by any effort being exerted by the university's director of athletics or any other administrative authority at the university to assure control of the football program. Due to this fact, as well as the serious nature of many of the violations in this case, the Committee on Infractions and the Council considered this to be among the most serious infractions cases ever processed by the NCAA.”
Neeext!! I guess you are proving rather well gator pilot the credibility of your posts.Before casting aspersions towards other programs make sure the program you follow doesn't have those skeletons in the closet!
The University of "Hell Yes We Cheat" ie UF has a well documented history of achieving serious NCCA sanctions.
With Tebow being friends with Spiller, and of course him signing with Clemson, UF skates. However, lets see Tebow go and visit some other recruits house next year that he doesn't have a lifelong friendship with and see what happens?
Gatorpilot said:
posted on May 18, 2006 11:11 PM — 72.146.114.176 — link — abuse?
Well, Joe, a little research is indeed a good thing. NCAA.org is, after all, a website accessible by the general public.
NCAA UPHOLDS FLORIDA STATE FINDINGS AND PENALTIES
OVERLAND PARK, KANSAS---The NCAA Infractions Appeals Committee upheld the findings of the NCAA Committee on Infractions and the penalties it imposed on Florida State University in a rules violations case that involved the football team.
Specifically, the Committee on Infractions determined that the university committed a major rules violation when it failed to assure NCAA rules compliance within its football program by not monitoring adequately the involvement of sports agents with student-athletes and by failing to take sufficient actions to investigate possible violations of NCAA amateurism rules.
The penalties included one year of probation, beginning February 3, 1996, and a requirement of recertification of current athletics policies and practices.
The Committee on Infractions issued its report March 19, 1996. Florida State filed a notice of appeal March 29, 1996, and the appeal itself May 2, 1996. The Infractions Appeals Committee heard the case June 22, 1996.
Florida State raised three issues in its appeal:
The Committee on Infractions' designation of a "major violation" for "failure to monitor" is without precedent, is not provided for in the contract with member institutions, fails to recognize the lack of any Association definition of adequate monitoring and is incompatible with the committee's own description of the institution's programs.
The Committee on Infractions' process was flawed by a procedural error that denied the university a fair hearing.
The evidence does not support the Committee on Infractions' departure from the conclusions of the NCAA staff.
The first issue is related to the role and authority of the Committee on Infractions and the NCAA enforcement staff in determining whether a violation is "major" or "secondary." The enforcement staff recommended a finding of one secondary violation. The Infractions Appeals Committee found that the Committee on Infractions had explicit authority under the bylaws to disapprove that recommendation and make its own determination.
The Infractions Appeals Committee also noted that a finding of a violation of the section of the NCAA Constitution requiring adequate monitoring and thorough investigation of possible NCAA rules violations was not without precedent. Thirteen major infractions cases since September 1, 1985, have included a statement of violation of this particular rule.
The Infractions Appeals Committee noted that while the Committee on Infractions recently had provided to the member institutions a set of principles concerning the NCAA's rule on institutional control, most Association rules have no clarification beyond the NCAA Manual and rules interpretations. Therefore, the Committee on Infractions' finding of a major violation in this case was appropriate despite the alleged "lack of any Association definition of adequate monitoring."
Florida State cited the Committee on Infractions' description of the university's programs, asserting that these favorable descriptions precluded a finding of failure to monitor. The Infractions Appeals Committee pointed out that the Committee on Infractions noted that Florida State had adequate policies and procedures in effect to ensure compliance with NCAA rules but those policies and procedures were not being adequately monitored or enforced.
On the second issue, the university argued that a procedural error denied it a fair hearing. The alleged error involved the appearance at the hearing of a former student who testified before the committee.
Florida State argued that the appearance was unprecedented and a violation of NCAA rules. However, the Infractions Appeals Committee noted that on at least four occasions the Committee on Infractions had permitted testimony from individuals not directly affiliated with an NCAA institution. It also noted that the Committee on Infractions, under the bylaws, is not restricted in its authority to permit the attendance of additional witnesses.
The institution alleged that notification of the appearance of the former student was inadequate. The Infractions Appeals Committee examined the unusual chronology of the hearing, which occurred because Florida State had requested an expedited hearing. It determined that under the circumstances, the notice provided the university was "as adequate as it could be."
Florida State also expressed concern that it did not have the opportunity to cross-examine or summon rebuttal witnesses. The Infractions Appeals Committee pointed out that the Committee on Infractions' hearings are not formal judicial trials. It noted that the institution's representatives could have questioned the witness or asked that the committee question him regarding any matter but they did neither of these things.
On a more general basis, Florida State did not raise before the Committee on Infractions any objection regarding the appearance or testimony of the witness. At no time before or during the hearing did the university object to the committee's decision to permit the witness to appear and testify, ask the committee to reconsider the decision or raise any of the matters asserted in support of this argument on appeal. The Infractions Appeals Committee concurred with the Committee on Infractions that because the institution did not object before or during the hearing, it cannot raise the issue for the first time on appeal.
On the third issue, Florida State asserted that the evidence did not support the departure of the Committee on Infractions from the conclusions of the enforcement staff. The Infractions Appeals Committee, however, found that the facts developed by the enforcement staff and found by the Committee on Infractions in this case were sufficient to support the committee's finding of a major violation.
Florida State asserted in its notice of appeal that the repeat-violator penalty was excessive or inappropriate but did not raise it in the appeal itself. The Committee on Infractions took the position that the penalty issue had been waived by the institution. The Infractions Appeals Committee stated that the Committee on Infractions' position was not without merit. However, the Infractions Appeals Committee noted that the five-year repeat-violator penalty is automatic under NCAA rules and is not a penalty imposed by the Committee on Infractions
The members of the Infractions Appeals Committee that heard this case were Marshall M. Criser, attorney with Mahoney, Adams and Criser; Katherine E. Noble, assistant commissioner, Big Sky Conference; David Price, associate commissioner, Pacific-10 Conference; Michael L. Slive (chair), commissioner, Conference USA; and John W. Stoepler, University of Toledo.
A copy of the full report from the Infractions Appeals Committee is available upon request.
-30-
KMR:jmq
I could go on, but is it really necessary?
FSwho? 34-7. I still have the newspaper clipping entitled: "SMACKDOWN!"
UF's dominance over FSU will continue.
Joe said:
posted on May 20, 2006 10:22 PM — 70.127.80.94 — link — abuse?
In reading over the entire excerpt from the NCAA concerning FSU I can't seem to find any coaches fired , Schollies taken, titles stripped, TV time lost, Or other serious sanctions. Perhaps you must have missed them in your research. Care to explain?
Also, It appears that the NCAA acted totally arbitrary in its proceedings and even went above and beyond its own investigative teams recommendation in its ruling.As to 21 years being weak?? If a murder is committed does that mean it doesn't count after 20 years or so? If I may use an analogy.
UF has well documented problems with the NCAA. FSU under Bowden has never had such severe problems. That is the facts. Deal with it before claiming UF to be pristine their actual record disputes that claim.
Lacking the knowledge of the factual record is one thing, but I would certainly hope that stating that "UF is the cleanest program in US" is a totally untruthful statement by the factual record on such matters. Shame on any CFB fan that would make such a dishonest statement, and infer that it was factual.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on May 21, 2006 9:24 AM — 72.146.114.176 — link — abuse?
No, Joe, you've got it all wrong, AGAIN. Pay attention.
FSU's been on probation at least once in the last ten years. UF hasn't had a probation, infraction/violation resulting in sanctions, etc. resulting from any of the following coaches' administrations: Steve Spurrier; Ron Zook; Urban Meyer.
Since that time, UF has been run squeaky clean. I am a booster and regular attendee of all home and some away games, have interaction with the program beyond that of the casual fan, and I can assure you that this is the case. Nice try suggesting the I said "UF is the cleanest program in the US." Twisting words is a tactic you must resort to, I suppose? I said: "UF is one of, if not THE, cleanest programs." Which of course provides some leeway since I am not initmately familiar with all hundred and something Division I-A programs.
You choose not to view probation as a big deal. Well, it is a big deal. You only get probation due to an infraction or violation of NCAA rules, of some sort. And in this case, the violation involved sports agents and student-athletes getting "impermissible benefits." FSU skated, big time, with only one year of probation for this one.
Here's a few more, Joe.
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/02/03/Sports/FSU_reports_its_minor.shtml
- Self reporting an admittedly minor violation, but a violation nonetheless.
- http://www.fanblogs.com/florida_state/006417.php
How about this one? FSU calls in a favor from the gub'ner?
They go on and on. FSU's program has a reputation for being dirty on many levels and these are just a few small examples.
http://www.centralohio.com/ohiostate/stories/20030305/football/1112255.html
- FSU gets a freebie after Adrian McPherson's gambling scandal in 2003.
-
Martin said:
posted on May 22, 2006 4:16 AM — 68.35.200.69 — link — abuse?
Did you know the Gators were initially displaced Florida State Students? The Florida State College Football team won football championships in 1904 and 1905, until they were forced to move to the all-male school in Gainseville when FSC became FSCW, or Florida State College for Women. UF fielded its first Football team in 1906.
As we see, to this day Gainesville keeps robbing FSU of its athletes, even in recruitment. J/K Gatorpilot, I just wanted to see if I could raise your eyebrows.Joe said:
posted on May 23, 2006 6:11 PM — 65.35.218.18 — link — abuse?
All this blather from Gatorpilot and yet still not a single scholarship lost, coach fired, title stripped,bowl game banned from, or TV time taken under the entire BOWDEN watch!!
Quoteth gator Pilot:"Since that time, UF has been run squeaky clean. I am a booster and regular attendee of all home and some away games, have interaction with the program beyond that of the casual fan, and I can assure you that this is the case."Munch on this gator boy!! Sure don't look so clean to me!!
Coaches and athletic officials often are scrutinized about how they handle trouble with athletes. Here's a look at incidents during the past few years at Florida
Florida
Jabar Gaffney
Incident: Gaffney, a redshirt freshman wide receiver, is caught stealing $245 and an $80 watch from the UF locker room during a high school state championship game in December of 1999.
Consequences: Gaffney signs a deferred prosecution agreement for petty theft and is given six months of unsupervised probation. Coach Steve Spurrier dismisses him from the team, but after a tearful apology from Gaffney and support from four family members who played for the Gators, Spurrier rescinds his decision.
Aftermath: Gaffney sets NCAA Division I-A freshman records during the 2000 season for touchdown receptions (14) and receiving yards (1,184). He also is suspended for the first half of the Kentucky game because he made a throat-slashing gesture in a last-second win at Tennessee. In April of 2001, Gaffney apprehends a 15-year-old who had stolen his motor scooter and is accused of beating him. No charges are filed. Gaffney leaves UF for the NFL after his sophomore season in 2001.
Mo Mitchell
Incident: The 335-pound offensive lineman and linebackers Channing Crowder and Brian Crum are accused of knocking off the passenger-side mirrors of eight vehicles in January 2003. They potentially face a felony charge because the damage totals about $1,200.
Consequences: Charges are dismissed because of a lack of evidence and the inability for investigators to locate the lone witness. HMMMM??
Aftermath: The incident is one of several for Mitchell, who before the season is cited for possession of an open container by someone under the age of 21. He also leaves the team unannounced for two days during the pre-season and loses his starting job. In the spring of '03, Mitchell is dismissed from the team for misconduct, but coach Ron Zook reinstates him and Mitchell starts 16 games during the next two seasons.
Channing Crowder and Steven Harris
Incident: Star linebacker Crowder and defensive lineman Harris are accused of beating a man into unconsciousness during an early morning fight outside a Gainesville nightclub in May 2003.
Consequences: Crowder pleads no contest to misdemeanor battery, pays a fine, serves community service and attends anger-management counseling. He is suspended for the 2003 season opener. Harris pleads not guilty and his trial ends with a hung jury.
Aftermath: Crowder earns freshman All-America honors. While his case is pending, Harris misses three games. Now a junior, he is expected to be a key player in '05.
Channing Crowder
Incident: A little more than a year after his first arrest, Crowder is arrested and charged with disorderly conduct after failing to obey an officer's orders to stop trying to fight another man outside the same nightclub.
Consequences: Crowder pleads no contest, receives six months of supervised probation, pays a fine and is ordered to perform community service. He is suspended for one game.
Aftermath: Crowder leaves early for last spring's NFL Draft. Knee problems and character issues drop his stock and the Dolphins make him a third-round pick.
Taurean Charles
Incident: The backup linebacker is charged with felony assault after he's accused of throwing a half-full keg of beer onto a student during a brawl between several players and other students at a party in the summer of 2004.
Consequences: Charles is suspended for the season and eventually pleads no contest to one count of culpable negligence. UF revokes his scholarship in March, ending a career marred by legal problems.
Aftermath: Charles enters Division I-AA Bethune-Cookman with two years of eligibility
Before ZookAgent Issues
Fred Taylor - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Reidel Anthony - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Ike Hilliard- Dealings with agent Tank Black
Javon Kearse - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Jacquez Green - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Mike Peterson - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Reggie McGrew - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Johnny Rutledge - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Keith Council - ?Dealings with agent Tank Black
Tim Beauchamp - Dealings with agent Mike McDonald
Dock Pollard - Dealings with agent Mike McDonald
Mo Collins - Accepted cash from agent
Tony George - Family at Holiday Inn on agents credit card
Thefts
Jabar Gaffney - Multi thefts of money and items
Reidel Anthony - Credit card fraud
Fred Taylor - Credit card fraud - some law books among other things
Ron Graddy - Multiple offenses including accessory armed Robbery, driving a getaway car
Doc Pollard - Multiple - Book theft - skipping classes
Jamie Richardson - Threw a deadly missile into a restaurant, aggravated battery (pool stick), credit card fraud
Damian Hill - Book theft
Pat Browning - DUI, Purse theft
Takeo Brown - Domestic Violence (slammed pregnant girlfriend), credit card fraud
Assault
Derrick Corker - Domestic battery and criminal mischief
Dwight Edge - Aggravated Stalking, battery
Jamie Richardson - Threw a deadly missile into a restaurant, aggravated battery (pool stick), credit card fraud
Anthony Mitchel - Misdemeanor Battery
Ernie Badeaux - Battery, Battery
Johnie Church - Domestic Violence (assaulted wife)
Elijah Williams - Sexual Battery, obstructing an officer without violence, coercing witnesses to lie
Takeo Brown - Domestic Violence (slammed pregnant girlfriend), credit card fraud
Tony Davis - Held girlfriend over the railing of her fourth-floor dormitory balcony and threatened to let her go
Aubrey Hill - Assault women
Darren Hambrick - Assault with deadly weapon
Anthony Riggins - Assault with deadly weapon
Willie Jackson - Attacked police officer at Gator Growl
DUI/Driving
Pat Browning - DUI, Purse stealer, theft
Ryan Kalich - DUI, crashed into an off-duty deputy
Ian Skinner - 15 Days jail - multiple driving infractions
Drugs
Gerard Warren - Marijuana possession
Ian Skinner - X
Weedo
Guns- HMMM? wasn't there Gun incidents on 2006??
Zach Zedalis - Gun in dorm
Betting
Kyle Morris - Betting on football
Shane Matthews - Betting on football games
(this list does not include the Gaffney and Respert incidents)
1999) Derrick Corker - Arrested for domestic battery and criminal mischief.
1999) Dwight Edge - Felony Stalking.
1999) Rod Graddy - Accessory Armed Robbery.
1998) Dwight Edge - Misdemeanor battery.
1998) Jamie Richardson - aggravated battery.
1997) Anothny Mitchell - misdemeanor battery.
1997) Ernie Badeaux - Assualt.
1997) Elijah Williams - Sexual assualt.
1996) Jamie Richardson - Charged with throwing a deadly missile into a restaurant.
1995) Ernie Badeaux - Charged with hitting someone in the back of the head.
1995) Johnie Church - Domestic violence.
1995) Teako Brown - Aggravated battery against his girlfriend.Please tell us again how squeeky clean UF has been over the last 10 years??
gatorhippy said:
posted on May 24, 2006 5:00 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
ok people. The bottom line is stuff like this goes on all the time. You can't tell me when one of these guys from either team goes home on break or for the summer that they aren't talkin to their buds or possible up and comers in places they live... Miami area schools are practical football factories and some of these kids don't know each other but come in contact because of their university connections...
We can all sit back and know that without a doubt this; along with all the other crap; goes on, not just here, but at pretty much every other school in the nation.
I'm sure this surprises no one. With that said I leave with a few fun facts about the Gator vs Nole series:...
Gators lead 29-19-2...
Gators hold a nine game (68-76) and a six game (81-86) run over the Noles...
Longest Noles run: 4 games...
Spurrier defeated the Noles a total of 8 times:
3 times as a player (63,65,66) and 5 times as a coach (91,95,97(NC),97,01...
Oh yeah u guys also lost at home to the Zooker...So put that in your peace pipe and smoke it, Chief Osceola....lol
I said it's great to be a Florida Gator...
Joe said:
posted on May 25, 2006 2:16 PM — 65.35.218.18 — link — abuse?
Ah Gator Hippy,
Spoken like a true gator fan!!
The "Everyone does it excuse"!!
Unfortunately, that attitude doesn't fly to well with the NCAA. THE "HELL YES WE CHEAT" signs at UF must have been before your time or is this just an endemic attitude with all gator fans?
One question hippy gator?
Are you trying to state that UF has accomplished more than FSU in College football?Surely you jest!!!
gatorhippy said:
posted on May 26, 2006 11:17 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Actually Joe the "everyone does it" isn't an excuse it's a fact.
You would be naive to even believe that it doesn't happen in Tally or anywhere else in the country.
It's all a matter of who gets caught and who doesn't. Which I guess would mean that maybe FSU is just better at the coverup than most places; U of "hell yes we cheat"( as you seem to like to call it) included.
And no I'm not sayin we have accomplished more in college football than the Noles. Just pointin out that we've accomplished plenty against the Semi-holes.
Cuz i know how bad that eats ya'll up...
Joe said:
posted on May 27, 2006 11:52 PM — 70.127.80.94 — link — abuse?
Fact?
UF has had serious sanctions with coaches fired, Schollies lost,Titles stripped, Bowl game bannings, and other serious restrictions as a result of Probations in both 1990 and 1984.
FSU has not despite having the NCAA go over the entire program after the footlocker at FSU's request.
( I still wonder how a one-time agent bought Athletic shopping spree could be considered as more grevious than the Tank Black affair?)
Glad you can admit that FSU has indeed accomplished more in CFB than UF. You are a rarity among gator fans.Certainly, UF has accomplished far more in other athletic programs.
While certainly losing to UF the last 2 seasons in football hasn't been something I would ever be in favor, it really hasn't "eatin" me up. Gators have bragging rights for the last 2 years. Lets see what happens in November in Tally?
Oh and the reason I refer to UF as the "University of Hell Yes We Cheat" is because that is what the signs stated that UF students held up the year they got nailed by the NCAA in 1984.
Oh for the record, I am by no means stating that FSU hasn't made mistakes in compliance with the NCAA. Those mistakes just have been no where near as grevious as both UF and UM. There simply is no comparison especially when FSU hires the best NCAA investigative at a 1/2 million to go over the program after the footlocker.gatorhippy said:
posted on May 30, 2006 12:53 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
You prove my point Joe.
FSU "hired the best NCAA investigative at 1/2 million to go over the program." Sounds like a cover up to me.
You; like most Noles; obviously live in Cartoon Land by Denial River where "Saint" Bobby can do no wrong since there is no "proven" wrong doings at the school. While innocent til proven guilty is the way we run this country, time will tell. One day after Bobby retires (or is possibly dead) it will all come out in the wash...
I wouldn't say FSU has accomplished more; just been lucky enough to play in a weak conference since the 1990's that now seems to be getting tougher by the year. However, will never EVER be as tough as the SEC.
Joe said:
posted on June 3, 2006 7:26 AM — 70.127.80.94 — link — abuse?
Oh Boy! Just when you give someone a compliment they go right out and prove that it probably was misplaced.
FSU has accomplished the following in CFB
1. Longest consecutive Top 5 finishes in the history of the sport. (Guess those that vote on such things disagree with your opinion)
2. Longest consecutive win streak in major bowl games.3. First between UF and FSU to have won a MNC and they have won two to UF's one. Also they have far more MNC appearances than UF.
4. First team to ever have a wire to wire perfect National championship season by poll voters. USC became the second in 2004.
5. Winningest coach in Division one history.
And UF?????
Waiting ......
------------------About that last statement? "However, will never EVER be as tough as the SEC."
Did you check the NFL "Draft" this season? Not that it is the only indicator of a conferences toughness but the ACC blew the socks off in terms of one conferences record in the draft!! What is the NFL thinking??? Surely they should have chosen more players from the "Mighty" SEC???
The SEC has many things going for it. No fans are probably more passionate and at least 7 teams have the large attendances at home every season: UF, UT, LSU, ALABAMA, AUBURN, USC, and Georgia.That being said don't confuse "passion" for accross the board nationally dominant football teams. In the state of Florida, UF can't hold a candle to CFB accomplishments of both UM and FSU.
Certainly, nationally teams like Ohio State, Michigan. PSU, and several others have equally packed stadiums as any Sec Team and have just as much or more in CFB. Notre Dame goes unsaid in CFB accomplishment. ( Tops in history) USC most recently , Oklahoma, Texas, and Nebraska all have nothing to feel inferior to SEC teams about.
JMHO but I believe the SEC is actually over- rated. Their teams consistently avoid Top programs around the country for their Out of Conference opponents in what I feel is sheer act of cowardice. Again my opinion but they do this so they can fall into the "mantra" of how tough their conference is by pointing to those large filled stadiums every weekend. Filled stadiums don't mean "tough football teams".We chose to disagree gatorhippy. I do believe I have presented the more compelling argument that your opinion is wrong.
As to Bobby Bowden his accomplishment and standards of ethics, decency, honesty, and integrity, are well documented. The man doesn't smoke, drink, or cheat on his wife. Never been arrested and has always conducted himself with class and dignity.
Has the man ever uttered a unkind word publicly towards another coach or person? You call it "cartoon land". I call it a well documented life of achievement and accompishment by a great coach and even better man.
So who would you suggest FSU hire to go over their program???? The NCAA's suggested "best" or some local paid boys??? like the GPD and Cervone?? We have all seen how the "TANK BLACK " affair was handled!Couple of other questions gator hippy? How on earth could soo many student athletes be paid for soo long and go completely unnoticed by UF for over 2 years?
Mo Collins had shown UF officials that there was a problem. Why didn't UF dig deeper at all those more heralded upperclassman that were on the take as well after that Fiesta Bowl drubbing by Nebraska?
refreshing your memory:Agent Issues after the Fiesta!!
Fred Taylor - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Reidel Anthony - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Ike Hilliard- Dealings with agent Tank Black
Javon Kearse - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Jacquez Green - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Mike Peterson - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Reggie McGrew - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Johnny Rutledge - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Keith Council -Dealings with agent Tank Black
Tim Beauchamp - Dealings with agent Mike McDonald
Dock Pollard - Dealings with agent Mike McDonald
Mo Collins - Accepted cash from agent
Tony George - Family at Holiday Inn on agents credit card
Gatorhippy said:
posted on June 16, 2006 4:37 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Actually Paul, it's the other way around. Clemson and Bowden Junior were the one's cryin about Tebow being there. However it was determined there was not a violation because of their previous friendship before the incident and before Tebow's enrollment at UF...
Joe said:
posted on June 19, 2006 8:58 PM — 70.127.80.94 — link — abuse?
I just hope the gators have Tebow touring the country next year recruiting players he has no previous friendship in the past!!
Perhaps Urban can have Tebow at the home of some Georgia Seniors next season.
Surely, that wouldn't be a violation either???? ROFLMAO!!gatorhippy said:
posted on July 15, 2006 8:00 AM — 70.119.140.254 — link — abuse?
I've got nothing against research, Joe.
However, when making an argument and using research to back that up make sure it is actually a factual take and not just the opinion of the source you are using as well as maing sure that that it applies to the subject matter at hand...
As far as the Black incident, the NCAA reviewed it and decided it was NOT an institutional problem as opposed to the Foot Locker incident where FSU was in fact put on probation because of the institutional knowledge of what was going on. The Noles dodged a bullet there....
Of course, you know this though...
gatorhippy said:
posted on July 16, 2006 5:29 PM — 70.119.140.254 — link — abuse?
And as for this quote:
"As to Bobby Bowden his accomplishment and standards of ethics, decency, honesty, and integrity, are well documented. The man doesn't smoke, drink, or cheat on his wife. Never been arrested and has always conducted himself with class and dignity."Can you really back that up?
Have you been with Bobby throughout his days a young child growing up until now?
Do you have a personal one on one relationship with the man that would include all intimate moments of his life?
How do you know at 10 years of age he didn't puff on a cigarette with a few of his boyhood chums out behind his pappy's woodshed?
Can you really officially tell me the man has never allowed a drop of alcohol pass through his lips even during a few years as college student?
Have you been with the man every time he has been absent of the presence of his beloved Ann and know for a fact that he never engaged in extramarital affairs with another because you have been there with him?
You can document for me that Bobby wasn’t discoing it up and hitting the “Columbian slopes” in the groovin’ Seventies?
Can you honestly sit there and claim to know the man well enough that even an expunged juvenile record would not be outside of your knowledge of him?
Or do you go on his word? Or do you really know at all and are just shootin off your mouth as usual?
As for this:
"I call it a well documented life of achievement and accomplishment by a great coach and even better man."What documents? His football record?
Show me the documents backing up all of this perfect behavior behind this wonderful football coach.
Hell, if that's really the truth why is the man coaching football; shouldn't he be out in the Middle East making peace between Lebanon and Israel right now?
Obviously, since all these so called "facts" are true about this great and wonderful man he should be able to accomplish that right?
"Did you check the NFL "Draft" this season? Not that it is the only indicator of a conferences toughness but the ACC blew the socks off in terms of one conferences record in the draft!! What is the NFL thinking??? Surely they should have chosen more players from the "Mighty" SEC???"
Are you suggesting that the ACC year in and year out has historically been able to keep up with the SEC or any other conference in the NFL draft?
Of course, if we take the recent addition of some actual football programs like Miami and V Tech out of the equation all the sudden the ACC isn't on such high ground this year.
And even at that, there are currently more active players hailing from the SEC than the ACC in the NFL. Talk to me about in 5-10 years when we see what kind of legacy these “superb” former ACC athletes leave in a football league where they match up with a guy just as athletic as the next day in and day out. Perhaps this is why the SEC outnumbers the ACC in current players.
One year of draft picks does not make a powerhouse conference or even gauge it’s toughness. We would need to look at those drafts over years and then we can begin to at least determine the athleticism in the conference.
“JMHO but I believe the SEC is actually over- rated. Their teams consistently avoid Top programs around the country for their Out of Conference opponents in what I feel is sheer act of cowardice.”
Ok, Joe lets take a look at the “tough out of conference” opponents on the FSU schedule this coming year:
Troy, Rice, Western Michigan, UF
Wow, Joe that is a so much more difficult out of conference schedule than UF.
Great record for top 5 finishes against the likes of:
1987: Texas Tech; East Carolina; Memphis State, Southern Miss., Louisville, Tulane, and Furman…
1988: Southern Miss., Clemson, Tulane, Ga. Southern, East Carolina, LA Tech
1989: Southern Miss., Clemson, Tulane, Memphis State
1990: East Carolina, GA Southern, Tulane, Cincinnati, Memphis State
1991: BYU, Tulane, Western Michigan, Midd Tenn St., Louisville
So why then, when the FSU program was an independent, was the school not scheduling ND, Southern Cal, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, or other top programs from around the nation year in and year out in lieu of the above lower tier institutions?
Hmmmm…then the Noles join the ACC to play that stiff competition year in and year out which has just begun to catch up with them in recent years more so because Miami, V Tech and BC joining is what really validates that conference.
JMHO, but if the Noles join the SEC instead of the ACC history looks a lot different for FSU.As the joke goes:
Why did the chicken cross the road? To join the ACC.
“Sheer Cowardice”? Seems like FSU invented it to me! But as you would say, Joe:
“That’s just my humble opinion.”
Joe said:
posted on July 17, 2006 7:59 AM — 70.127.80.94 — link — abuse?
Now let me get this right... You are stating that the footlocker an institutional problem but not Tank Black? Personally, I would say both were not institutional problems but the NCAA arbitrarily punished FSU and not UF.
So how does UF totally not see agents playing players for almost 3 years, and yet FSU is guilty because it didn't know about a one time shopping trip paid by an agent?
Does the name Mo Collins ring a bell?? That was the "warning" of a problem. UF's response " It was an isolated incident"... BOY!! WERE THEY WRONG!!!!
FSU actually punished its players. What did UF do?Oh thats right!!! they waited until all the guilty players were gone... How convenient?
Do you not see to the total arbitrariness of the NCAA in its handling of both these situations?It sure would be nice if FSU could get such a "free pass" that UF got!!
Gatorpilot said:
posted on July 17, 2006 8:06 AM — 72.154.129.94 — link — abuse?
Good God, Joe's still rattling on about this? Somebody's got a real axe to grind with the Gators. Maybe 34-7 and a decade of upcoming dominance have something to do with it? Yes, that's probably it! :)
FSU's accomplishments in college football will never match the Gators. The 90's run of SEC titles, which probably will never be matched again by any team, is the toughest accomplishment in college football, bar none (including national championships, as evidenced by some of the sorry teams which have made it there in recent years.) By contrast, FSU lives in a world (ACC) in which the toughest opponents are Miami and V-Tech. As a member of the SEC, FSU would likely never make it to a single championship game, and therefore would have no national championships to their credit. Yep, FSU has a ways to go before they can match Florida is college football accomplishments (not to mention college basketball or baseball.) Guess what, Joe... we play four to six TOP 20 IF NOT TOP 10 TEAMS EVERY YEAR! This year's schedule is so brutal that I suspect Bowden Sr. would likely lapse into a coma were his pitiful Seminoles have to deal with that docket.
FSU's 'success' is built around cupcake teams and now that their are actually a couple of other teams in the conference which are 'decent,' that success has vaporized. Crawl back under your rock, Joe.
gatorhippy said:
posted on July 17, 2006 10:55 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Well, Joe, obviously the NCAA felt that UF had no prior knowledge of the Black incident while they found evidence that the FSU program did indeed not only have knowledge of the Foot Locker incident but DID NOTHING ABOUT IT!!!
"It sure would be nice if FSU could get such a "free pass" that UF got!!"
You don't call it a "free pass" when a school has knowledge of agent dealings, take no action, and gets a puny one year probation with no sanctions. What the hell would you call it then?
C'mon, man!
Joe said:
posted on July 17, 2006 11:32 PM — 70.127.80.94 — link — abuse?
Wow! gator hippy and gator pilot
So much angst and anger?? Must have hit a nerve.So with all that FSU guilt?? on footlocker... how many coaches got fired?, How many scholarships lost? How many titles stripped? Get back to me when you can answer that honestly.... And lets compare it to "HELL YES WE CHEAT's" Record on such NCAA excursions!! ROFLMAO
As to Bowden's record and exemplary history. If you can produce a single documented evidence of what you liars are attempting to infer.. Do it!! Unfortunately, from a University well known for its cheating why should I expect anything remotely factual from you gator boys???
As to toughness of schedule, you will get no argument from me for this year's gator schedule compared to FSU's.However, that being said I suggest you check FSU's schedule over the last 15 years, and I think you will find that FSU's has consistently been tougher. Why? Because they don't duck an instate rival, and also they are willing to take on "National Powers" on a home and away basis.
Of such things.... when was the last time UF played a home and away against a tough out of Conference opponent other than FSU?? I don't think I will hold my breath waiting for that answer. So far I have seen little in the way of honesty from either of you. Not surprising.
As to the ACC's strength again until last season it definately wasn't as strong as the SEC. Things have changed with the addition of VT, BC, and UM which showed up rather clearly in last year's NFL draft..... You see....I can be honest about such things . Too bad the typical gator fan can't.
Oh and again you claim UF was totally unaware of Tank Black for almost 3 years?? Surely you jest!!
I remember all to well when Mo Collins received cash at the Fiesta Bowl. I even suggested that why would only (1) RS Freshman be receiving Cash$$$ when so many more decorated upperclassman weren't?
Seems my question was answered about 2 years later. Guess I must have been clairvoyent!! LOL
Continue on with your nonsense.. If anything you are entertaining. UF plays 4 to 6 top 20 if not top 10 teams every year??? WOW! If only any rational and logical CFB fan could believe such nonsense, UF's accomplishments would be as large as their heads. They would be admired rather than reviled by most of the country. Is there something in the water in Gainesville that produces such utter fabrications? Are all gator fans as delusional as you two??
Oh and couple of additional questions? since you bring up this SEC versus FSU, How about running through FSU's record against the SEC's teams since Bowden took over??.. Also since you bring up UF's record in the 90's run in the mighty SEC what was UF's record against FSU?? I know neither of you will answer that one honestly.
No lying guys just the facts.. Here is betting neither of you blowhards will answer any questions I have posed.
Again:
Link anything in Bowden' career that remotely matches your silly envious accusations and inferences.
Tell us all FSU's record under Bowden against all current SEC teams?
Tell us the record of FSU versus UF during their 90's run of the SEC?
Prove that UF's schedule was indeed tougher than FSU's over the last 15 years?? I suggest you go to Sagarin.Do you believe I was clairvoyent in my question after Mo Collins???
We will call it the gator honesty and integrity test. Anyone want to bet that Hippy and Pilot fail?
Gatorpilot said:
posted on July 18, 2006 6:00 PM — 4.235.156.196 — link — abuse?
It just so happens we delved into OOC scheduling at http://www.orangeandbluehue.com - Joe, go there, read the top story, and you will have all the stats you need. And it ought'a shut y'up.
Gatorhippy said:
posted on July 18, 2006 7:44 PM — 70.119.129.7 — link — abuse?
No angst or anger here, Joe. I’m not the one calling people “liar.”
Usually when people resort to calling people names it’s because their back is against the wall.
However, we’ll revisit the “liar” accusation toward the end of this post.
Are you really one of those FSU fans that only lives the Bowden years and tries to forget all the history before that?
You obviously are stuck in the 1990’s when it comes to FSU.
Hey, I’ll humor you and answer your questions in their context but we’ll look at it from an overall historical aspect as well…
Bowden led FSU record against SEC: 29-23-2 (.556)
Wow, a stunningly average 7 games above midway with at least 7 of those wins coming against SEC teams that were below .500 for that year. Incidentally, this is his worst record against any conference since at FSU. Hmmmm…hardly dominant.
Just for fun: FSU vs. SEC overall: 43-62-7 (.415) No wonder FSU joined the ACC…
I assume you mean the four straight years from 1993-1996 titles we won in the SEC for the next tidbit:
11/27/1993: FSU 33 UF 21
11/26/1994: FSU 31 UF 31
01/02/1995: FSU 23 UF 17
11/25/1995: FSU 24 UF 35
11/30/1996: FSU 24 UF 21
01/02/1997: FSU 20 UF 52
Whoa, total domination again with one game over .500 for that stretch and only one win of more than 10 points. Granted you came from 31 points down to tie in 1994, but why didn’t Bobby go for the win?Of course, as I pointed out earlier in this thread, UF put it on Bobby and the Noles for 6 straight years from 1981-1986. Oh hell, let’s just look at that again as I quote myself from post # 47 from this thread:
1. Gators lead 29-19-2...
Gators hold a nine game (68-76) and a six game (81-86) run over the Noles...
Longest Noles run: 4 games...
Spurrier defeated the Noles a total of 8 times:
3 times as a player (63,65,66) and 5 times as a coach (91,95,97(NC),97,01...
Oh yeah u guys also lost at home to the Zooker...Let’s see, that 19-29-2 record FSU translates to a .400 record.
Bobby will be dead before FSU even sniffs an equalizing game.Joe, I’m sure you are thinking “FSU has the better record in the Bowden era!”
You would be correct in that thinking:
17-14-1 (.547)
Mediocre at best again, hardly dominant and includes that 6 game stretch of beatings the Noles and Bobby took I mentioned previously.
Even with that mediocre Bowden era record, FSU still lags 10 games behind UF.
Of course, no FSU fan ever wants to talk about that, they just rant and rave about the 1990’s…
Strength of Schedule: You suggest using the Sagarin ratings over the last 15 years…
Online at USA Today Sagarin’s ratings are only available as far back as 1998, but in that time the average difference between the Noles and the Gators 2.45. That’s a cockhair, but granted a cockhair the Noles way.
However, there are a whole plethora of SOS rating sites and organizations, which is evidenced by any search of the internet, all using different mathematical methods to reach a conclusion.
So that’s like the saying goes about opinions and assholes.
You were probably thinking I forgot about the points I made about this comment you made:
“As to Bobby Bowden his accomplishment and standards of ethics, decency, honesty, and integrity, are well documented. The man doesn't smoke, drink, or cheat on his wife. Never been arrested and has always conducted himself with class and dignity.
Has the man ever uttered a unkind word publicly towards another coach or person? You call it "cartoon land". I call it a well documented life of achievement and accompishment by a great coach and even better man.”Just in case you forgot what I inquired of you regarding this comment:
“Can you really back that up?
Have you been with Bobby throughout his days a young child growing up until now?
Do you have a personal one on one relationship with the man that would include all intimate moments of his life?
How do you know at 10 years of age he didn't puff on a cigarette with a few of his boyhood chums out behind his pappy's woodshed?
Can you really officially tell me the man has never allowed a drop of alcohol pass through his lips even during a few years as college student?
Have you been with the man every time he has been absent of the presence of his beloved Ann and know for a fact that he never engaged in extramarital affairs with another because you have been there with him?
You can document for me that Bobby wasn’t discoing it up and hitting the “Columbian slopes” in the groovin’ Seventies?
Can you honestly sit there and claim to know the man well enough that even an expunged juvenile record would not be outside of your knowledge of him?
Or do you go on his word? Or do you really know at all and are just shootin off your mouth as usual?
As for this:
"I call it a well documented life of achievement and accomplishment by a great coach and even better man."
What documents? His football record?
Show me the documents backing up all of this perfect behavior behind this wonderful football coach.
Hell, if that's really the truth why is the man coaching football; shouldn't he be out in the Middle East making peace between Lebanon and Israel right now?
Obviously, since all these so called "facts" are true about this great and wonderful man he should be able to accomplish that right?”
I don’t see any accusations or inferences there in any of my questions.Again they are just that: me questioning an outrageous statement you made you, I, nor anyone else can really prove to be true, Joe.
I have my OPINION of the man and you have your OPINION of the man.
Neither of us can prove or disprove any of the outlandish statement you have made referring to Bobby Bowden.
Again, Joe, the ball is in your court on that matter and you don’t have a racquet to hit it back with.
Now as to the Mo Collins question, which ties into the “liar” accusations being thrown around so loosely in your last post…
As to whether I believe that you were clairvoyant in your question? NO!
To explain this lets take a look at a statement you made on the follow up board to this topic “Violation charges against Gators just sour grapes?”
Excerpts from Joe’s Post # 38:
“Never stated that Tebow going to the house was a violation just stated that it certainly could have been had Tebow not been long time friends with Spiller.”
“Never have accused UF of cheating on this incident although they most certainly have in the past.”
Why the hell should I believe a guy who can’t remember what he has said from month to month much less 10 years ago?
For all of you who haven’t been privy to Joe’s outlandish and contradicting statements here are three quotes where Joe has blatantly accused UF of violations and cheating in the Tebow/Spiller incident:
From the subject board “Possible Florida Violation including Tebow and Spiller”Joe Post #22
“Tebow committed a recruiting violation.. END OF STORY!!”Joe Post #28
“Recruiting violations are recruiting violations. Doesn’t matter if they are reported or not.”
"Tim Tebow had no business at being at Stiller's house the day before signing day no matter how innocent the visit might have been. He was already enrolled at UF. UF should have warned him about such stuff.
Again, JMHO I think Meyer encouraged him to be there and attempt to influence Spiller who UF coveted"From “Violation charges against Gators just sour grapes?”
Joe post #36:
"I find it hard to believe UF would sanction such a thing next season unless of course.. "a leopard doesn't change its spots", and UF continues the practices of the "HELL YES WE CHEAT" days!!!"Of course, Joe, I have already blasted you over on the other board (I suggest the rest of you check it out…LOL)
So please explain to not just myself and Gatorpilot, but everyone on that posts on this site how a person who claims to only deals in cold hard facts and truthful, upstanding, and consistent statements would allow such a lapse?
Maybe, perhaps, because they themselves are the exact thing they are projecting on everyone else.
A Liar.
Unbelievable said:
posted on July 20, 2006 2:12 PM — 12.207.125.147 — link — abuse?
I am a fan of one of these teams you three masters of hyperbole have been discussing in this rant. I read about four or five posts and got sick. If you put as much effort into your life as you put into this waste of bits and bytes, imagine what you would accomplish out there in the real world.
Friendly arguments and disagreements are one thing. This is unbelievable. Grow up. Both sides have good and bad issues. Geez, its friggin football. There are real people out there with real lives. As for my colors ? Red, White and Blue.
Joe said:
posted on July 21, 2006 2:11 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
And yet Mr Unbelievable?? you choose to participate, and tell us how you got sick? and where we should put our efforts?? Why? What a weenie!!
I have to admit I am getting a bit concerned about gator hippy?? He has reposted the same drivel filled post 3 times now! Geesh! It wasn't even that good the first time Gator hippy.
Unlike you I will spare you seeing my rebuttal 3 times.
Joe said:
posted on July 21, 2006 2:44 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Gatorpilot says:
posted on July 18, 2006 06:00 PM — linkIt just so happens we delved into OOC scheduling at http://www.orangeandbluehue.com - Joe, go there, read the top story, and you will have all the stats you need. And it ought'a shut y'up.
First your link didn't work but I would imagine the reasons would be:1. The financially strapped?? gator empire has to have soo many home games just to make ends meet!! LOL
2. Their boosters will complain if they don't have soo many home games each year.
3. They would lose money by playing teams home and away like Miami and other National powers.
4. Their schedule is too hard already.
5. They play in the "Mighty"? SEC where every team is of NFL quality. lol
6. Everyone wants to be a gator so they don't need to play any National powers.
That about cover it??Gatorpilot said:
posted on July 23, 2006 12:18 AM — 72.154.129.94 — link — abuse?
The answers to your questions would be: nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
Try the site again and read it. I know you're a blowhard, but you'd have a hard time coming back here and retaining a shred of credibility if you don't throw up your hands and say, "You're right, Gatorpilot." That is what I expect you to say after reading the article.
Good day.
Joe said:
posted on July 24, 2006 10:51 PM — 70.127.80.94 — link — abuse?
Well the link finally did work:
reason # 1 - condensed : UF appears on National TV more than anyone?
Hmmm? That sure sounds pretty close to Reason # 6 to me
Reason # 2 - condensed : UF is most popular among recruits
Hmmm? that again sounds pretty much like #6 to me again.For those reading #6 "Everyone wants to be a gator so they don't need to play any National powers."
Reason # 3 - Condensed- Blather about how UF's schedule is tough enough already to get to a BCS bowl game.
Sorry, that sounds just like #4!!!
Reason # 4 "some Blather about UF having to play FSU" ?
No one has stated UF should have played FSU when they first started to play football but after 10 years, a case certainly could be made for the series starting. While no legislative law was passed it certainly was discussed. Why did UF insist on the first 6 games being played at home?
Why no SEC recruits allowed to play for FSU?Typical UF!!
Reason # 4 Some blather why UF is unique???? and that is why they can't schedule anyone but FSU OC each year??
Don't believe anyone has stated UF was unique just chicken! When you drop your (3rd oldest continous rival) for no real reason, you have to face criticism. Stating UF would be the only school to schedule 2- instate rivals??? Well that may indeed be the case today, but a little school in Tally certainly has managed to do that every year until UM joined the ACC!! LOL Now that UM is actually in the ACC they still play them every year. (permanent opponent) Heck, some years FSU might play UM twice!!! LOL
Sorry gator pilot!! but:
Looks like the "ARROGANCE OF NOTRE DAME and TRADITION OF WAKE FOREST" is well defined in your linked site... That you actually believe such stuff is most disturbing. Seek help!!__________________________________________
Bottom line: UF could play FSU and UM every year, and whether they win or lose those games would still be eligible for a BCS bowl every year by just winning the SEC. That they choose not to deserves all the criticism they get!! That they wish to remain a regional team is their choice equally deserving of being questioned. Not very flattering for some school claiming to be the "flagship university of the state" JMO
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Regan said:
posted on May 9, 2006 1:39 PM — 64.53.125.37 — link — abuse?We got Spiller; we're happy, trust me. This looks to be a really minor problem if it's a problem at all. While it's sneaky and underhanded, that seems to be what CF Recruiting is all about lately...