September 20, 2006
FSU alums start RetireCoachBowden.com
FSU alum Darrell Frink has started a website intended to increase public support to encourage Florida State football coach Bobby Bowden to hang up the whistle. RetireCoachBowden.com is not intended as a 'fire Bowden' a la the Ron Zook website started by Florida fans a few years back.
"We're not a fire Bobby Bowden Web site," Frink told the Tampa Tribune. "We want to see him go out with the grace he deserves. I'm saddened by the whole thing. I just don't think he is making good decisions the last five years. I would tell my father that."
RetireCoachBowden.com lists the following as it's mission:
This website is not intended to be destructive in any way; we just believe that the time has come for our Legendary Coach Bobby Bowden to retire with grace and class he deserves. Rabid fanatics and pandering scribes aside, rational people can see Coach Bowden is in decline and we, as Alumni, want to see FSU Football continue to flourish and build upon what Coach Bowden started. When Bobby came to Florida State University, he built a national prominence that was unmatched in quality and stature. He spent a good portion of three decades working hard to make FSU what it is today. We appreciate all he has done, but we also see other things happening the past 5 years that send a definite signal that a change is needed, for the betterment of the University's program so dear to Coach Bowden's heart.
While there are several Fire Jeff Bowden petitions & websites, this is the first site dedicated to persuading Bobby Bowden to retire.
Comments:
gatorhippy said:
posted on September 20, 2006 10:34 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
This site has been around for a couple years, but Mr. Frink has just updated it to list the unfortunate downslide that the FSU program seems headed for this year.
Yes, Bobby, you probably should retire before you are fired and your son gets canned with you...
WB said:
posted on September 20, 2006 11:10 AM — 68.17.100.248 — link — abuse?
Didn't a bunch of Penn State fans/alums want Paterno to retire a couple of years ago? They certainly changed their tune after Paterno went 11-1 last year with an Orange Bowl victory.
I don't think we've seen the last of Bobby Bowden's greatness.
Bill From Tampa said:
posted on September 20, 2006 11:27 AM — 169.139.222.5 — link — abuse?
Essentially that website is saying thanks for the national championships, now get out. That's no way to treat a man who has given 31 years of his life to the school. It will be a sad day when Bobby retires. I'm not looking forward to that day which hopefully won't be for a long time.
Mark Marchione said:
posted on September 20, 2006 12:05 PM — 152.121.19.11 — link — abuse?
I have to agree with Ad Rock and WB...Bobby Bowden is a living legend. During a time when athletes and entertainers bring discrace to their sports and our country, Bobby Bowden has been a rock. He is a faithful, family oriented individual who brings outstanding credit to sports, to college football, and The Florida State University. As an alum, who has had the distinct privelege of meeting him in person and hearing him speak, I am extremely proud of him and all that he does. I do agree however that there is no place for nepotism in any organization, and it is time for his son to move on. Let me remind you too, that it took Joe Pa three overtimes to defeat Bobby Bowden and the Seminoles in the Orange Bowl. Let me also remind you that Bobby Bowden was recently inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame.
JZNole said:
posted on September 20, 2006 2:59 PM — 12.177.80.3 — link — abuse?
The only beef I have with Bobby is that his son is his offensive coordinator and he won't even begin to attribute FSU's offensive problem on his own son. While the rest of the country sees the obvious problem...Bobby is wearing his nike rose colored glasses and thinks everything is fine.
Cwistyred said:
posted on September 20, 2006 4:52 PM — 12.22.103.237 — link — abuse?
I personally don't believe that the decline of the program is attributable to Bobby, other than he has let his son run the offense into the ground. That is his fault, blind loyalty to a son who has absolutely no talent for the game. I don't want Bobby to retire. I want his son to be man enough to resign and help leave his father's legacy intact. Like Paterno, I believe Bobby needs a few good post-Jeff seasons to regain some of the shine on his statue in Tallahassee.
RLS said:
posted on September 20, 2006 8:12 PM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
First, I am not a Florida State fan but a huge football fan...I just love the game. This sickens me! Bobby Bowden deserves better than this! His staff deserves better than this. Coach Bowden is mature enough and I feel certain loves the fans and school enough that he will do whatever he feels is in the best interest of the players, present and future, as well as his staff. This coach has EARNED the right to decide that for himself, not you! The game has gotten completely out of perspective and focuses too much on wins and losses. My goodness, schools are firing coaches that win 8 or 9 games! What in this world is going on! A coach is a teacher first, as long as he, and his staff, feel they are still teaching and developing these young men values that will make them better and more productive citizens, then Coach Bowden and his staff are doing their job. Florida State is competitive! On any given Saturday they are good enough to win!
What is with you folks! Don't do this to a man and staff that have fulfilled their responsibility so well through the years and are still doing so. They certainly deserve better.
SQ said:
posted on September 20, 2006 9:36 PM — 208.0.27.10 — link — abuse?
Cwistyred U are right!I don't think Bobby Bowden should retire.His son tho,HE'S GOTTA GO!His loyalty to his son will be his downfall and the downfall of the legacy that he created as the winningest coach in college football.Bc his son playcalling is the worst I've ever seen.I've seen high school coaches call better plays than he has.Its crazy,U have to be a selfish individual to not do the right thing and step down to keep your fathers legacy in tact.Selfish
Jon said:
posted on September 21, 2006 2:06 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
You idiots really need to stop citing Penn State as your counter-arguement.
Penn State replaced their offensive coordinator in 2004... Which lead to the turn-around...
If we are going to cite them as a reason to keep Bobby Bowden around... then the university better grow the balls to give him the same ultimatem Joe Paterno recieved.
Too bad Bowdens ego will probably prevent him from staying... But thats just too bad.
I'd love for Bowden to stay.. and lead us back up like Penn State....But if he is unwilling, he is expendible.
Jon said:
posted on September 21, 2006 2:19 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
re: RLS: This coach has EARNED the right to decide that for himself, not you!
Incorrect.
Capitalism ensures that our votes are relevant. They elect to have an idiot run their offense and we will to elect to stop donating to boosters, buying pay-per-view games, tickets and merchandise.
Our football team brings FAR TOO MUCH MONEY IN TO THE UNIVERSITY TO ALLOW IT TO GO DOWN THE TOILET. It funds tons of other sports, academic research and education.
Trevor Roe said:
posted on September 21, 2006 7:59 AM — 65.242.31.146 — link — abuse?
While I agree that Jeff Bowden should be replaced, based upon the lack of offense over the past several years, I can't believe there are FSU "fans" wanting to push Bobby out. After all he has done to bring the program to national prominence, he has earned the right to leave on his own terms. I've been a fan for more than 40 years and I'm a current Booster. Obviously, many who now call for Bobby's scalp today don't remember the 0-11, 1-10 and 3-8 seasons from 1973 through 1975 that preceded his arrival. Bobby still attracts top talent and projects a positive image for the program. The defense is among the nation's most feared. His reluctance, however, to recognize that Jeff needs to be replaced is why the Florida anti-nepotism law was passed in the first place, and it shouldn't have been waived for Jeff. I feel like the much-heralded wunderkind, Kevin McHale, needs to go as well. Since his arrival and institution of his new "blocking schemes", we not only can't run-block, but we also can't protect Drew Weatherford from a THREE-MAN pass rush, game after game, including those against the likes of Troy. The excitement and feeling of anticipation I used to feel when our offense took the field has been replaced by dread, wondering whether poor play calling, poor blocking, dancing running backs, dropped passes, turnovers, or stupid penalties are going to stall each upcoming drive, usually resulting in 3 and out. Isn't it sad that rare first downs are now the cause for exultation? Let's send the staff to Louisville this off-season to watch them run the type of wide open, high scoring offense we used to employ at FSU. They lit it up against Miami with a second string QB and RB Saturday, and we can't produce a first half TD in three games with a bunch of first string Parade All-American skill players. How sad.
Small Nole in VirginiaRLS said:
posted on September 21, 2006 9:06 AM — 205.188.116.133 — link — abuse?
To Jon:
You made my point Jon. You're saying the fans will only support the program as long as it wins 9 or 10 games a season? It is all about the money? So, fans wouldn't go to the games, buy the merchandise unless they win? TV money, 6 and 5 teams play on TV every Saturday and go to bowl games every year. As I said, the game is all out of perspective. Only through winning in football can the school and athletic department remain financially viable?
WB said:
posted on September 21, 2006 9:47 AM — 68.17.100.248 — link — abuse?
Jon:
I'm not using Paterno as a "counter-argument". I'm not even really an FSU fan. I do think Bobby Bowden is a good man, but that's really beside the point.
I'm simply saying that fans everywhere are fickle. Many of the Penn State fans wanted JoPa to retire. Then he started winning again. Now you don't really hear any complaining about JoPa.
My point is that if Bowden were to go 12-1 or 11-2 next year, all these calls for him to retire would go away very quickly. Don't put it past Bobby Bowden to be able to do that next year.
RAS said:
posted on September 21, 2006 11:56 AM — 128.186.159.238 — link — abuse?
I agree with those of you who are saying that it is not Bobby Bowden who needs to retire. Bobby does have his faults like not being able to remember players names, but name one person who doesnt have any faults. Jeff Bowden needs to step up and realize that he will never be the coach that his father is nor will he ever recieve the amount of respect that Bobby has both as a person and as a great coach. I am not saying that he could never be a good coach just that if he is ever going to get anywhere he needs to step out from under his father's shadow and pursue coaching elsewhere. If Jeff Bowden is to get any amount of respect, he will get that when he realizes that he is ruining his father's legacy and that the best thing to do for the program is to step down. I say this because currently Jeff is the only person who can change his own situation. Bobby's interests have changed over the years. He is much older now than when he first started coaching. His priorities have changed. Now instead of being completely focused on coaching he is more involved with his family. His wife Ann will never allow him to fire Jeff. Both T.K. Wetherall and the athletic director are too afraid of Bobby to do anything about Jeff. As for those crazy rumors saying Jeff tried to resign after the Clemson game and Bobby not letting him- NOT TRUE.
As for the "fans" who are saying that he needs to resign- they are not TRUE fans. Bobby has done great things in the FSU football program throughout the years he has been here. He brought two national titles to a team that had zero prior to his arrival. He brought greatness to FSU. With that greatness comes an expectation of winning. When those expectations are let down fans start to become angry, but this is when TRUE fans can be separated from the rest...
Jon said:
posted on September 21, 2006 1:04 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Here is how I personally feel.
If FSU gave Bobby Bowden the choice to stay or leave, but we are firing Jeffy.
And if FSU hired a new offensive coordinator, it would take several years of losing records before he would lose my support.
Jeff Bowden did not lose my support (and most fans are with me on this one) until the 2004 season. What he has done in subsequent years is lunacy.
Our football team is no longer fun to watch. I'd rather watch us go 0-10 with a coach who used some imagination and took risks.
I have been a FSU fan all of my life. I remember going to games when I was 4 and Doak was a 'high school' stadium. I remember being scared I was going to fall through the bleachers. I watched Sanders. I watched Ward. I watched Vannover. I watched Dunn. I watched Warrick. See, those players reached their potential while playing at FSU. They improved.
Anybody who has watched as much FSU football as much as I have knows something is different. Something is wrong.
Under Jeffy I watched Boldin...someone who showed no signs of improvement and simple wasn't that impressive in college. Now he is the NFL and has become one of the top WR in the league.
I know Bowden built us into a dynasty. I will always be a Bobby Bowden fan. But it is a fact, when people get older, their minds slip. And his mind is clearly slipping when he spends the majority of time placing blame on everything but where the blame belongs.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein
WB said:
posted on September 21, 2006 6:40 PM — 71.14.120.150 — link — abuse?
Jon:
In your shoes, I would probably feel the same as you. I think your last post was well thought-out, and I would tend to agree with your reasoning.
Being a South Carolina Gamecock fan, I am still quite envious of you. It sure would be nice for a 7-5 season to be a horrible season for us. Instead, 7-5 is above average for the Gamecocks' 100+ years of football. SC has only had one 10 win season (1984)......EVER.
I guess it's all a matter of perspective....and I can appreciate your perspective.
Cheers!
J goodtimes said:
posted on September 21, 2006 6:57 PM — 69.149.118.107 — link — abuse?
Joe Pa finally fired his son and hired a professional offensive coordinator and then went 11-1. For the posts talking about his turn around story. Let's be honest the thing Bobby's great at now days is the recruiting and the rest falls on the staff.
RLS said:
posted on September 21, 2006 8:19 PM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
As I stated...I am not an FSU fan, however I have really enjoyed watching FSU play through the years and I do understand how you all feel. I watch them on TV every chance I get. I have no doubt the right solutions will surface and they will be handled the right way.
Good luck and I hope the season turns around for FSU.
SQ said:
posted on September 21, 2006 8:48 PM — 208.0.27.10 — link — abuse?
Couldn't have said it better myself Jon.Me & my man VOLPIMP have talked about this issue repeatedly.I'm from Michigan & I grew up watching Michigan play.I love Michigan Football.I live in Tennessee now and I can remember watching my first FSU game when Charlie Ward was a Junior and I got to see him run "The Fast Break Offense" for the first time.And when they scored or made a big play I heard the crowd go crazy with the Tomahawk Chant.Man,it made me a fan & made me watch every game they've played since that game.I remember seeing"Neon Deion"Sanders play too.He's one of my favorite players of all time.And the talent that they had then,just like now is,some of the best players in the country.The only players that reach their full potential at FSU are the guys on defense bc of Mickey Andrews.The offenseive players don't get to showcase their skills bc of poor playcalling.You hit the nail right on the head with the point you made about Anquan Boldin.NOBODT knew He was he was that good of a receiver at FSU,but NOW he is one of the top receivers in the NFL.And I'm sure he's just 1 of many players past and present (since Jeff Bowdens been the offensive coordinator)on the offensive side of the ball that have all the talent to be good college players but bc of Jeff Bowdens playcalling they will never get the ball in their hands to showcase their skills.It doesn't make any sense for this program to have all this talent and not be blowing teams out like Troy & Clemson.Bobby Bowden isn't the winningest coach in college football for nothing.He can coach but he hasn't been coaching,he's been sitting back letting Jeff call the offensive plays to try and let him show that he can coach on this level but HE CAN'T.And yes he needs to step down ASAP!
gatorhippy said:
posted on September 22, 2006 10:37 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Looks like Mr. Frink is getting the attention of some people in the Westcott Building...
Funny how the Noles admin. has singled out Mr. Frink for some copyright infringement...
Getting a little hot in the big chair, TK?
FSU_Student said:
posted on September 22, 2006 12:16 PM — 71.49.2.115 — link — abuse?
I really feel the same way as #21, bobby doesn't really coach the team anymore and either it is because he is tired and worn out or he is trying to give his son the reins. I really wish he would realize that he (bobby) is the last bowden florida state will have as a head coach. Terry isn't that great a recruiter (though a good coach), Tommy isn't a good enough coach (although decent) and has his own thing anyways working to make clemson great again, and JEFF SUCKS GOAT TESTES!! It is apparent he isn't creative enough, at least in this facet, to coach college football (at the Div IA, IAA, 2, or 3 level period) and probably shouldn't be coaching high school teams either. I really think bobby is holding on for that next championship season where he can retire and let his son take over. That will NEVER happen and I wish he could see that but one of his major "daggum" problems is he is WAY too optimistic and loyal to people that do not warrent a second chance let alone a 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th.
Another thing that bothers me is people touting bobby's constant excuses. What teams (with this calibur recruiting) get upset 2-3 times a season and have no decent big wins. Only FSU. Even Miami only gets one upset a season or so and they do have big wins (VT last year for instance) and I would put good money Coker could win out his season as is losing only to these two higher ranked teams and still lose his job at the end of the season.
Excuses that shouldn't hold water with our losses:
Injuries, Let-Down Games, Bad kicking (this Cismesia requires more coaching or a boot to the ass), Bad blocking (whose fault is that? Coaching), "not seeing the holes" (on running plays: indicative of poor play design/calling if it happens more than once a game), "They just played better ball than us" (Al Groh's VIRGINA!?, NC STATE?! GIVE ME A BREAK), "We couldn't make the big plays" (Duh... We saw that, that is coaching as well), It is the quarterbacks fault (we are on part 2 of this now, Ron Zook just let Syracuse end something like 14 game losing streak and still outcoached FSU in Doak in 2004).Recent comments clearly demonstrate Bobby is on the defensive too, 0 offensive touchdowns in the first half of three games? BAD COACHING! I hate to preach to the choir here but someone please FIRE JEFF NOW! It is either the 300+ kids that florida state has recruited in the past 6 years all suck or something else.... What is a constant factor at FSU since the begining of the slide... hmmm ... oh I know... JEFF M*@#her F#@%ing bowden.
C-Mob said:
posted on September 23, 2006 2:48 AM — 198.254.16.201 — link — abuse?
The question I have is why does Jeff Bowden not love his father enough to quit. Jeff Bowden Should call Cooper Manning and have a long talk about using the name (Bowden) to make money in something other than football. Cooper for example is an ultra successful insurance man. Jeff Bowden could probably be an ultra successful mall sweep up guy.
P.S. I s Jeff Bowden the Oakland Raiders OC too because both offenses call the same plays and rarely throw to the top receiver.
jeff said:
posted on September 23, 2006 2:15 PM — 69.252.179.83 — link — abuse?
Like Jon, I have been an FSU fan all my life and remember the days when Bobby was known as a gambler with fancy trick plays and high scoring offenses. Remember the famous fake punt against Clemson in 1989 or many of the plays we ran at the big house in 1991 on the way to a 51-31 victory over Michigan. Nowadays, Coach Bowden always refers to lack of execution, but doesn't that ultimately fall on the shoulders of the coaches? I love Bobby, but I LOVE COLLEGE FOOTBALL more and I will always be the guy that people say takes FSU Football too serious. If that is possible. What hurts so much for many FSU fans is that for Coach Bowden, this has become personal, because loyal fans who want FSU to succeed are attacking his son. Yes, this is exactly why nepotism laws exist! I can't imagine my father taking this much heat because of me, whether it is warranted or not. If I were jeff bowden, I would resign, because it would kill me to see my fathers legacy even slightly tarnished because of anything that had to do with me. Against UF, at home in 2004, there was a lady behind me in the stands who could look at our offensive formations as we lined up on the field and predict what we were about to run. I'd say that she was right more than 50% of the time. What do you think people who live and breath football everyday as part of their jobs can see when we line up??? We don't run WR screens or slants... We don't run outta the shotgun or spread formations... There are many other formations an offense can run out of other than the I-Formation. We went from Chris Weinke actually trying to sell a "play action" pass under Mark Richt, to our QB's since jeff bowden has been running the offense, just going thru the motion as part of the play. With so many 3 and outs, any defense would get tired and end up giving up a game changing play... I'll end my rant, but I really feel that such poor offensive production will not only hurt us on the field, but it will hurt us in the recruiting wars that take place all over the country. With players like Javon Walker and Anquan moving on to the NFL and showing what they can really do, why would an offensive blue chip recruit want to come to FSU to be under utilized and see their chances to go to the next level hurt by somebody like jeff bowden??? I would go to USC or Ohio State or UF or Notre Dame too.
I'll always love Bobby, but I hate that he can't see that his son is not a talented Offensive Coordinator. With the kind of offensive speed and talent that we have at FSU, other schools like Louisville or Notre Dame could make a title run.
Jon said:
posted on September 23, 2006 5:38 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Great job kicking the crap out of Rice noles!
I was sitting here this morning, thinking of how nice it would to be able to have a job where you could work a lot of years, establish a good reputation and hire good associates.
Then regardless of how poorly I do my job from there out, regardless of my poor personnel decisions, regardless of how bad I was dragging the company down the toilet....people would still defend me because of my early years....
Then I could come out and mock the people who questioned me, I'd call them "fair-weather associates". Remind them of how much they need me and how lucky they are to have me. Hell, I may even hire a moron to run the most important facet of the business.....Yet people will still support me...and love me.
People wouldn't even recognize what I do as a job. I would establish no clear set of performance requirements. People wouldn't be able to determine if making 20 million was a good year (when we could of possible made 100). And regardless of whether we performed up to par or not, I'd say we did a good job. What's the difference between 20, 40 or 60 million dollars when you are the king? I'd have no boss. I'd be a god living among men.
Visit: http://www.retirecoachbowden.com .. The Rice game will not delay the inevitable.
Seth said:
posted on September 24, 2006 9:51 PM — 66.32.16.85 — link — abuse?
Coach Bowden needs to shake things up, not retire. Bowden knows how to win and I think he knows that his son needs to go. The offensive play calling has lost all inspriration--it is completely predictable.
If Bobby shows enough courage to fire his son for the sake of the program, then I'll know he still has "the fire" in him.
TNNolefan said:
posted on September 25, 2006 12:14 AM — 69.27.73.165 — link — abuse?
It is pretty sad when you have to run up the score on a team like Rice (about the Equivalence of a 1-AA team) just to make people feel better about our team. I agree with Jon this game does not prove anything except how far down the program has fallen since Jeff Bowden took over the offense in 2001. Bobby Bowden called this a "big win" I am sorry but this should only be a big win for teams who don't win often like Duke for example. We should not be relying on soft teams to pad our statistics and to make it look like were an elite team we are FSU dad gummit! We should be blowing out everyone on our schedule but instead were barely getting by this is truly sad!
FSU_Student said:
posted on September 25, 2006 3:39 PM — 168.82.56.100 — link — abuse?
YES we should blow everyone on our schedule out except perhaps Florida and Miami which should at worst be close wins or close losses. No other team is near FSU for recruiting and at one time no other ACC team (or ten loss teams rice and western michigan) had better coaching. This 55-7 should have been what we saw playing Troy and there should have been at least 20 points of leeway against Clemson. NC State comes next week and I think a good portion of fans are hoping for a win rather that counting it as a W now. BC comes in 3 weeks and I know many people are fretting over this second rate team. GT defeated Troy soundly and is a lesser team than FSU. Nebraska routed Troy completely looking more like FSU should have. This has to stop and slaughtering Rice (while still looking like crap really) is not the answer. This win says more about Rice than Florida State. Also Davis fumbled again, it is really time he was benched I think. If he can't hold the ball, he shouldn't play, although this could be yet another coaching issue.
Cane_Nation said:
posted on September 28, 2006 5:03 PM — 205.166.218.37 — link — abuse?
I am NOT a fan of FSU if you can't tell, but I do have a great deal of respect for the progtram and what Bowden has done in his time there. That being said, a choice has to be made, either fire your son or take him with you. I am grateful that the 'Canes have never had a coach stick around long enough to be untouchable. We can fire our coach and hopefully we will. A friend of mine (a FSU season ticket holder) says Miami has laryngitis (Larry Coker) we'll get better. But FSU has AIDS (Bobby Bowden) they can't cure what's killing them. I just thought that was a good analogy. Moral of the story: Never let the coach get bigger than the program.
FSU0897 said:
posted on September 30, 2006 10:29 AM — 12.227.149.133 — link — abuse?
I have been sitting back reading this one and it is sad. I have no problem with Coach Bowden sitting back and being a "CEO," but in any business, the CEO is responsible for making sure the ship sails in the proper direction and cutting losses where necessary. CEO's make mistakes, but when a mistake is made, it is the CEO's job to fix it. In this case, coach has not fixed the problem - Jeff. For four years we sat back and said that Rix was a flaming idiot - I am starting to wonder how bad he really was. It cannot be a coincidence that our slide to mediocrity has coincided with the Jeff Bowden Era. We 2 gifted QB's, 2 gifted RB's, some great receivers and for some reason we cannot put points on the board (Rice DOES NOT count - i don't care what anybody thinks). The talent is there, the players are there, the coaching is not. Mickey, Kevin, O'Dell, and crew keep putting together great defenses - it is time the offensive coaches do their part.
I would take Brad Scott back in a minute...call Clemson and get him back. At least he ran an offense that we all had some fond memories about.
If we are all lucky, maybe some lower tiered D-1 team or a D-II team will think Jeff has the skills to be a head coach...if we are not going to fire him, PLEASE somebody else hire him.
Joe said:
posted on October 2, 2006 2:31 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Amazing!! how so many CFB fans feel so entitled that they feel they should direct "the show", and make decisions on who should play and who should be fired??
How many games have these fans played and won??? How many Division One games have they coached and actually won????My guess is a A BIG FAT ZERO!!
Yet they know all the answers???? When you consider going to 3 BCS bowls and 2 Gator bowls and winning 3 ACC Championships over the last 5 years to be considered utter failure???? Sorry, but that is pure nonsense and reeks of a bunch of spoiled brats that don't deserve to be FSU fans.
I want to see a single fan that has contributed 1/10,000th of what Bowden has to FSU?? What a bunch of cry babies FSU fans have become!! 3-1 record and they are on a suicide watch!! ROFLMAO!!Carlton said:
posted on October 2, 2006 3:49 PM — 216.212.241.151 — link — abuse?
Bobby Bowden is a good man. He has cultivated the FSU team all these years in class and in style. Why not give him the respect that he has earned? Maybe it is time for him to retire but now there is nasty mark on the end of what has otherwise been an incredibly awesome career. For Darrell Frink to say that this is giving Bowden a graceful way to bow out – he’s lost his mind! There is no grace in starting a public campaign to remove someone. If he’s such an influential alum then let Frink throw his influence around quietly, not publicly like some kid who doesn’t like the flavor of the lollipop he was given. Come on, Frink! Look at the life and career of a man you claim to admire and learn from him. Have a little class.
Madden Football Central: Madden Football
Gallo said:
posted on October 5, 2006 11:53 PM — 65.27.208.107 — link — abuse?
CHOKE! Once again FSU is crying over a loss, that should have been negated. Poor coaching, poor play calling and lack of discipline, except for the "ROCK" Mickey Andrews and his tenacious defense.One has to believe that Jeff Bowden is a cancer to the FSU offense, his #'s speak for themselves since being named offensive cordinator.I am a loyal Bobby fan as many others, but soon or later something has to change.God bless FSU football, but this is becoming pathetic and depressing.
NCSU24FSU20 said:
posted on October 6, 2006 12:17 AM — 67.191.247.12 — link — abuse?
First timer. I've sat back now for the longest time with the attitude that every team has ebbs and flows.
But after this game, I'm now ready to admit that this is a second-tier program and indeed it appears to be mainly the fault of that worthless 'jack (jeff) in the box'.
I guess Bobby goes out when he wants, and on his own terms, but with a string of 8-5 seasons and mounting losses to Clemson and NC State. I guess it's not as bad as Woody Hayes.
Well, here we are. Crappy record, unranked, and the seaon's over. Guess I have to figure out who I might want to support for a bowl game. FSU won't be playing.
gatorhippy said:
posted on October 6, 2006 8:36 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Well, Joe...
That would be a 3-2 record now...
Still no running game and now the defense is sarting to show holes...
The talent is there for the most part but that's consecutive losses to UNRANKED ACC teams...
If it ain't coaching then what is it?
PigPen said:
posted on October 6, 2006 12:04 PM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
How soon we forget. If Bobby Bowden wants to coach untill he's 100 it's OK. That being said I
surly wish he'd fire Jeff, but if he dosen't just
remember with out coach Bowden there would NO
program and all you fair weather fans wouldn't be
around because we'd suck like we did befor Bobby
raised us to the elete level.BOBBY BOWDEN is FSU,
BOBBY BOWDEN made FSU and THE NOLE NATION needs to suport him especialy now!
JOPA is agreat coach and a great man but his
acomplishments can't hold a candle to BOBBY'S.
We need to suport our coach now in respect for what he has given us over the years, NOT jump him for the rough path we'er having now.
PigPen said:
posted on October 6, 2006 12:04 PM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
How soon we forget. If Bobby Bowden wants to coach untill he's 100 it's OK. That being said I
surly wish he'd fire Jeff, but if he dosen't just
remember with out coach Bowden there would NO
program and all you fair weather fans wouldn't be
around because we'd suck like we did befor Bobby
raised us to the elete level.BOBBY BOWDEN is FSU,
BOBBY BOWDEN made FSU and THE NOLE NATION needs to suport him especialy now!
JOPA is agreat coach and a great man but his
acomplishments can't hold a candle to BOBBY'S.
We need to suport our coach now in respect for what he has given us over the years, NOT jump him for the rough path we'er having now.
Ron Atchison said:
posted on October 6, 2006 12:40 PM — 150.176.79.10 — link — abuse?
I am a long time FSU fan and I remember the days when our offense was as feared as our defense, the days when you could not look at the formation and know what was coming....if I noticed that everytime FSU went single back w/3receivers on one side and 1 on the other and then flipped the formation the inside receiver was a fullback or h back and it was a run to the inside on that side every time but once (play action incomplete)then don't you think chuck the chest saw that....and Kirk Herbstreit was raving about new formations....they did the same thing 2 years ago against Miami....hmm same results....I don't want to see Bobby go, but Jeff and Kevin McHale need to go
Jon said:
posted on October 6, 2006 3:15 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
re: There is no grace in starting a public campaign to remove someone. If he’s such an influential alum then let Frink throw his influence around quietly, not publicly like some kid who doesn’t like the flavor of the lollipop he was given. Come on, Frink! Look at the life and career of a man you claim to admire and learn from him. Have a little class.
I'm going to have to disagree on this one. Keeping things behind closed doors enables inept management to continue. If Bowden is ignorant enough to call us "the faint hearted" and "fair-weather fans".... And idiots like Joe (see above) calls us entitled/spoiled...And they all chirp the same talking points about how 'we have never coached a game' yata yata...
...Then fans have a right to fight back and bring the topic to everyones attention. At this point, no true FSU fan should be silent. We all should be screaming at the top of our lungs, making it apparently that 1) we love fsu athletics, 2) we bleed garnet and 3) because of this, we are going to bitch and show lots of concern when things are not going in the right direction.
If anything, Frink is taking the initiative and is actively trying to bring this topic up for debate in the public eye. We crucify people every day for this... But it is people like this, people who go against the establishment.... Who get things changed for the better.
You cannot drape yourself in your past achievements and act willfully ignorant towards armies of fans without crashing and burning. I say burn baby burn..
nolegods said:
posted on October 6, 2006 4:04 PM — 74.234.27.51 — link — abuse?
So Bobby is loyal? Loyal to whom? His family, that's who.
There are 24 Bowdens besides Jeff listed in the FSU employee directory and an unknown number of female relations with different last names. To provide jobs for his less-competent relations, St. Bobby turns his back on the young men he recruited to play for a winning program.
It was a great run. Now we'll be stuck with JoPa Junior until the program is so run down it will take a decade or more to rebuild it.
Shame, Bobby.Tommie Trojan said:
posted on October 6, 2006 8:26 PM — 206.135.38.217 — link — abuse?
Hey, I was just thinkin', and maybe this is a decent idea: why doesn't every Nole' fan quit going to and watching the games? And, I'm not being facetious here. I am being very serious. I am not so in-tune with what goes on down there, and have been guilty of giving Bowden a break, but if the allegations that many are making are true - then I would have to cut Bowden loose. But, as long as he is packing that stadium and the administration does not feel comfortable replacing him, then he will remain.
The argument, which would make good common sense, is that Nole' fans would pack the stadium no matter what - so who needs Bowden? This is probably a correct assumption. But, these people have all been in bed together for many many years and made millions of dollars together, and it would not be very easy to break up that sort of union. It's kinda like what we have going within our so called "political process" here in the Good Ol' US of A. There really isn't a process that we can participate in anymore.
Well, my idea for all polititions is to vote every single one out of office. That is the solution. No one will do it though - they just vote for the name they know. But, the same principal could work on removing Bowden. Waht? Are you people gluttins for punishment? What do you got to lose? Watching some crappy imitation of a Seminole team get beat down over and over? Hey, just quit going to the games. Quit watching it on TV. I know you love your Noles', and well you should, but take the rest of the year off and listen to the games on the radio. Take next year off also if you have to. Get that attendance down to around 20,000 a game - and, Bowden will be gone in about fifteen minutes from now.Tommie T
Cwash said:
posted on October 8, 2006 3:35 PM — 71.96.85.195 — link — abuse?
I think Bobby should go out on his own terms. However, if Bobby deos not have the vision to make the correct dicesions as far as who to direct the offense. That is another issue. Clearly, Jeff Bowden does not have a clue of running a diverse balanced offense. Greatness start at the top with good leadership. If you go back and look at the coaching staff during the dynasty years we had great leadership with vision. Now a couple of those coaches have there owns teams and I think thats when the program started to fall. FSU can no longer walk out on the feild and scare anyone. Back in the day teams knew if they didn't bring it. It was going to be handed to them and the lights would be out quickly. Nowadays, we can't even convert for first downs or score touchdowns. The play calling is very predictable. There is no offensive creactivity. I look at teams like Florida, Texas, USC, West Virginia. We have the same type talent, but it's what you do with it and clearly we are wasting it. I hate to say it but recruiting will suffer as well if they don't show some type of direction. It's hard for me to even watch now becuase the games are so frustrating. I will continue to support the team for the guys, but there is not lost love for the coaching staff as a whole for coming up short.
McCutcheon Pinckney said:
posted on October 10, 2006 10:53 PM — 68.51.244.131 — link — abuse?
It saddens me to see Florida State in such a condition. We can no longer just go out and win games. We have to play every game like it is our last. We are at risk of getting beaten by Duke this weekend. That is how bad it is. Bobby, you're the best College Football Coach that has and probably will ever live. Technically, you should be able to go out on your own terms. But to preserve what you have built here, I would suggest retiring at the end of this season. Do it for the fans, who deserve better. By and large it the downfall of FSU football over the last 5 years isn't your fault. But by retiring, you would allow a young coach to take the reigns, and to add to the prestige that you created. All we are asking for is a new direction, a new beginning for FSU football.
gatorhippy said:
posted on October 11, 2006 12:14 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Here's a link to Mike Bianchi's column in today's Orlando Sentinel:
Just for all of you that aren't in the Central Florida area...
Just a sad state of affairs in Tally...
It's almost hard for me to laugh about it...
Almost...
Bruc said:
posted on October 15, 2006 4:52 PM — 72.4.16.130 — link — abuse?
As an FSU alumni ('72)for over 30 years I've seen the Noles in the worst of times and best of times. Win or lose, I've always felt a sense of pride to wear the Garnet and Gold -- and support the team and coaching staff. During the Bowden years, I've been especially proud to be an FSU alumni because of the class act Bobby Bowden brought, and continues to bring to the FSU football. And I'm not just talking about winning games -- I'm talking about Bobby's class, his integrity, and his love for his players and FSU and the Christian witness and values he and his family stand for. I am personally furious to hear the sniping that these gutless "Monday morning quarterbacks" are now beginning make about Bobby Bowden. I remember when the press was pounding Jim Mora when he was the head coach at New Orleans. At a press conference, addressing the sports "writers" (as opposed to sports "players") -- he said "You think you know what you are talking about (about football) but you don't!" There's an old adage -- "Those that can, do -- those that can't criticize." -- which applies to those calling for Bowden to step down. What arrogance! Go back to your couch, lay down, and shut up!. You don't have a clue about either playing or coaching football, much less the right to critique one of the best, class-act football coaches of all time. If FSU NEVER wins another game under Bowden, Bobby has earned his right to exit at the time and place of his choosing. To the Bowden critics I say this: college football is about far more than winning games -- in case you haven't figured that out.If you want to carp -- become an Alabama fan -- they'd love to have you. But we sure don't need you at FSU.
Jon said:
posted on October 16, 2006 10:13 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Bruc --
If we should dismiss the cries for Bowden to step down, because "you people (fans) don't know what your talking about"... then logically... wouldn't your opinion (that Bowden should stay) be just as invalid as ours? What makes your perception better than ours?
Who has the qualifications to judge Bowden? Does he have any clear performance objectives? Whats a good year? Whats a bad year? After how many "bad years" is it acceptable to keep a coach? Whats the difference between 6-5 and 12-0? Does anyone care? How much booster money needs to be lost before someone starts caring?
The reality is... We cannot judge Bowden because neither the athletic director or Bowden have the balls to lay out a clear set of performance objectives that we can use to measure if he is doing a "good job" or a "bad job". Why? Because if they clearly laid out what is acceptable or unnacceptable, they would have to live up to the standards the fans and boosters have set... and... they wouldn't be able to produce excuse upon excuse upon excuse....
And to your belief that "college football is about far more than winning games"...well.. I have to strongly disagree. College football entails a large subset of things that ultimately comes down to "wins or losses". A coaches perfomance is consistently judged by their "wins or losses". I challenge you to name me one losing coach who brought enough (of this far more 'stuff') to the table to keep their job.
The truth is... because we have nothing to judge Bowden by... because he is unwilling to define performance objectives... all we are able to do is compare and contrast. And when you compare and contrast what we were, to what we have become, it becomes obvious... Bowden is no longer an effective coach or he would do the right thing and fire his idiot son...
And my friend... you and your ignorant brood are the types that are allowing this b.s. to continue. You go be a fan at Alabama, because we do not want your willfully ignorant type here at FSU.
Bruce said:
posted on October 20, 2006 12:14 PM — 72.4.16.130 — link — abuse?
Jon...
You claim that booster support has suffered because of the Bowdens. Where is your evidence? Can you provide statistics available through the University to support your claim? You seem to speak for "boosters" -- in what capacity, other than your own, self-appointed, dilusion of authority. Based on your numerous posts in which you try to defend your position, it is obvious that there are far many more of us who disagree with all of your "straw" arguments than who agree with you, and I suspect the booster support would confirm that.
You speak of "judging" Bowden's performance. Who appointed you to be the "judge" of Bobby Bowden?? Sorry, friend, but the limits of your "judgement" extend only to the level of your own personal support -- you neither speak for or represent the views or sentiments of those of us who strongly disagree with your narrow perceptions of what college football is all about. I'm so sorry that somewhere along the way, you've lost your sense of team spirit, if you ever had one. Like the "cut and run" critics on the national political scene, all you've got is criticism -- no game plan of your own.
Moreover, your resorting to crude language and personal attack speaks volumes of some kind of personal, seething anger that probably has nothing to do with Bowden or FSU but rather with some unresolved conflicts that perhaps a good therapist could help you with. And for your information, I've been around a long time -- and will continue to support FSU, good times or bad, unlike the likes of "fair weather" fans like you.
Sorry -- deal with it.
Garry said:
posted on October 20, 2006 11:58 PM — 24.168.228.43 — link — abuse?
I have been a Clemson fan for life. I have seen them win a National title in one decade and go 3-8. in another. Florida State has One how many National Titles, and played for how many? Since Fla. St. has been in the ACC, I haven't exactly been fond of them or Bobby. With all of that said, I think if Fla. St. were to fire this man, then they would deserve to go 0-11 for the next 20 years. Who the he double hockey-stix was Florida State before Bowden. Bobby Bowden is Florida State, they owe it to him. How many of you would fire your son if he were doing his best. I don't think he should fire Jeff. Reprimand, teach, take over his job even if needed, but not fire. Remember Jeff is his son. If it were me and the alumns were telling me to fire mine, i would walk out that day and never look back to coach little league, were its not always about winning. How many parents would love to see their babies play for Bobby. After all do ya think he really needs the money. Its Bobby Bowden he'll be back on top soon enough, and when he gets their he'll have Jeff straightened out. For now im enjoying the slump their experiencing. It probably wont last long. As a Clemson fan i'd have to say we can be satisfied with 9-3 seasons.
Jon said:
posted on October 21, 2006 1:29 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Look here O'Reilly,
I didn't make a concrete statement on "booster loss". If you worked on your reading comprehension skills, you would be able to tell the difference between a claim and a rhetorical question.(re: Like the "cut and run" critics on the national political scene, all you've got is criticism -- no game plan of your own.)
Again, your reading comprehension is failing you. Just like I typed, my plan = to set out a clear set of performance objectives, in order to be able to judge Bowdens performance.
My advice to you is, don't bring your brain-dead, sheep, Republican talking points into a football argument. Just like with Joe....I will be more than happy to run around you in circles at a public debate.
You just let me know the time and place. Hell, we'll hold it publically at FSU and invite sports writers and the press. Maybe we can get something productive done.
joesph said:
posted on October 23, 2006 10:28 AM — 216.212.247.145 — link — abuse?
I believe Bowden should step down. Bowden can't win anymore national championships. The only thing he can win is ACC championships, and since the ACC is so weak the ACC championship is really more like giving FSwho a nice try award. Fire your son and retire.
Jon said:
posted on October 23, 2006 1:37 PM — 128.186.159.11 — link — abuse?
Bruce - Alabama for you
Reaper said:
posted on October 23, 2006 5:59 PM — 75.200.175.163 — link — abuse?
I came across this site while searching for FSU sites. Rarely do I ever feel the need to post on any topic, but I feel more than justified to post here after reading this site and others. For the most part I agree with many of you, but then there are the fanatics. I will be simple and to the point.
Bobby Bowden is the only reason anyone outside of Florida has ever heard of FSU. He made FSU and in doing so made Tallahassee. If you believe anything else you are, to be blunt, extremely mistaken. As for Mr. Frink, Bobby, and I state only "Bobby" has given this man a voice!!!!! Only because of the prominence the FSU football program recieves does Mr. Frink garner enough attention to even be recognized in the press. If he truly had sway in the program it would be felt in house. He does not, so he uses the university's prestige and takes his view to the press. If I need to repeat why FSU even has that level of recognition, please stop reading now because I feel you are not grasping the concept. As for my personal view on Mr. Frink, he is neither a true fan, nor a reputable person in my eyes. He has shamed the alumni and the program in his quest to gain power in the program. While I believe in free expression, there is a systematic route to present your ideas. Mr. Frink choose another path.
As for Jeff Bowden I have many thoughts, both about him an his players. While I don't see everthing as his fault, he has turned the once diverse play calling scheme into a generic middle school offense. To say that we are anemic on offense is an understatement. Jeff loves the I-formation more than Lee Corso loves to pick the home team. On any given Saturday, when Jeff is in complete control of the offense, I can be accurate to within 81% I know what play is coming depending on formation and down. 81% is not a guess it is a calculated number from the last two seasons. The other 19% is when Bobby has the headset on and we go to a single back spread offense late in games. I have more difficulty guessing his schemes, but as time has went on he to has become more predictable. Why you may ask? In basic terms we are most often down late in games and he is forced to throw making the offensive scheme repetitive. Instead of man-to-man coverage we see three men pass rushes. The sickening part is not the double or triple coverage in the secondary , its the effectiveness of the three and four men pass rush. FSU has lacked a true quaterback since Weinke. Rix and Drew have talent, but they won't sit back in the pocket and take hits like Weinke did. It may sound stupid, "take hits", but a true quaterback will feel the pressure, not create it. DW and Rix get pressured to easy and look to scramble to quick. Now you can say that the O-line can not protect forcing both to scramble. It happens, ends break loose and linebackers come untouched through the middle, but not every play. When RiX and DW opt to scramble even a little you have an offensive line that breaks formation trying to protect. Weinke's O-line knew Weinke wasn't running anywhere so the stayed with there blocks. Instead of running everytime DW needs to feel out his pocket. Sure he will get plowed in the beginning, but his O-line will realize just were he'll be every play, standing tall behind them looking down the field for a target. What good is that? You have an O-line dedicated to a patch of ground, not 20 yards of it heading towards the damn sideline. Now this can only happen if Jeff allows DW to throw fades, posts, and deep routes off play action or 3 to 5 step drops. The side outs bring to much heat in too close to the QB allowing for the corner to blitz and the safety to drop down into coverage even if DW gets the 5 yard completion off. These plays may gain yards, but it kills the offense by bottling the play calls into a 5-to-10 yard region. This is why the run game stuggles so heavily. I read something about "bouncing running backs". Booker is notorious for it, but why? Again it comes back to giving the O-line confidence to block where they stand. When Booker gets the ball he almost always runs outside. Most are sweeps or outside draws gone bad. Not a bad idea if your Reggie Bush, but Booker's not that athletic. He talented yes, but not talented enough to run without the aid of blockers. When he goes outside he outruns his blockers forcing him to go head-to-head with linebackers. He is not strong enough to break that tackle nor is he athletic enough to shake off an entire sideline of defenders. The reason you have so many defenders waiting is because FSU runs and throws outside, rarely do they take it straight upfield against anyone. Booker hits a wall of defenders who are "waiting", and this is important, not "pursuing". There is a big difference.This forces him to dance behind the line because he has nothing there because he is running vertical allowing him no speed to upfield. This is a Jeff Bowden problem. He runs an I-formation to the outside!?!? Another problem, not related to Jeff Bowden I will add, is many see the 28 on Booker's back and they see Dunn all over again. He is not a Dunn type talent. Dunn ran between the tackles. He ran with a ferocious disposition taking on those he couldn't shake, no matter how big they were or how hard they hit. He ran not only for himself but for his brothers and sisters that he provided for. If he didn't gain that extra yard, they didn't either. If he didn't take that hard hit on the football field, then he feared his younger siblings would take a harder hit in life. He ran with a passion, with a fire, and it didn't matter what was in front of him he was going around it or through it no matter what. He was a scrapper who would fight for every inch. Booker doesn't run like that. He won't drop his head for 2 or 3, rather he will try to look for the big yardage every play, but run like he is ready to go down after a tap. Peter Warrick played the same way as Dunn, but for different reasons. He was an athlete, but many saw him as to short to be a talented wide reciever. He played with a desire to be the greatest ever. He bleed Seminole gold and maroon the same as Dunn, he had a fire. The great one's do. They walk with a swagger. They either know you can't stop them or that they won't let stop them. Our defense has the "won't" let you stop them attitude. Everyone knows what Mickey's players bring to the table. They are hard nosed, unfortunately our offense no longer has players like that. The last hard nosed offensive player I watched was Greg Jones. We lack those type of talented work-horses now. While I am an avid believer in the resignation or firing of Jeff Bowden for his total ineptness, I will say our recurring inability to bring the best offensive players in is hurting us. Whether it is Jeff, Bobby, the negative publicity, or everthing and anything, our talent on the offensive side is lacking compared to that of the defense. Maybe they lack heart??? I thought Boldin did. As great as he was he never seemed as inspired as Warrick was, even if he was more talented than Warrick.
I see these problems as just a few of many. Fundamental breakdowns are something I could go into for days, but I just don't feel like it. Jeff needs to go sure, but it won't be an overnight rebuild. Those who call for Bobby to step down have lost touch. Bobby is the greatest coach of all time, and he got there by sticking by people he trusted. Sometimes it burnt him in the past, but its what he does He had faith in Rix, no matter how many ducks he through up on the run. He saw Rix had talent, DW to, he just can't let his son go because like most fathers he wishes the best for him. Bobby is a good man and one of the few public figures that would actually sit down and have a cup of coffee with you and talk sports. He's accessible and loyal to those that want to be close to him. If you met him on the street and asked him why his son is still the OC, he'll tell you he has faith in what he does and he thinks he can get the job done. This is what let him see the fullback mentality of a 175lb Dunn or see past the flamboyant personality of Sanders. He finds the talent inside the players. That's a makes him a good coach, what makes him a great coach is that he cares about everyone in the program. That's why he should stay and that's why many say he's the greatest without ever mentioning his championships and wins. But when fans attack son he is torn between the program and his son to the point he can't decide. His love is so strong for both that he would try to keep Jeff even with the 8-5 seasons hoping he alone could right the ship while allowing his son to destroy his legend. He will not fire his son, nor will anyone else as long as he is there. He rules that campus no matter who is president. Jeff will either resign Bobby will be to hurt from the backlash of "fans", and do I ever use that word losely, he will call it quits and both will wall away, possiblely taking Mickey with them. If he did leave I pray Mickey would take the head coaching job assuming he didn't leave as well. Why does a fan base wish to destroy their greatest icon? I'm 22 and I can't remember the 0-11 teams before Bowden, all I know is Bowden. If he wanted to coach at FSU till he dies let him. I don't care if we go 0-11 with him at the reigns, he is the reason
anyone would ever care. He built the program with his judgment and has earned the right to never be questioned. With that said he is the only Bowden who will ever command that amount of respect. I have no place at FSU for Jeff or any other Bowden. I will be disgraced and disgusted if Bobby is handed an ultimatium of firing his son or leaving. Let him coach till it is his time and no one else's. Don't we as FSU fans owe him that much. He brought us to the pinnacle, and no one else will ever do that for FSU again. There is only one first, once its gone you never get it back so Mr. Frink and any other "fan" that calls for his head might want to sit back and just think about who gave you a reason to care.Jon said:
posted on October 24, 2006 12:16 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Reaper - thats a very good and thoughtful post... atleast until the last parts..
I do not believe Bobby is the greatest coach of all time.
I am convinced he is the greatest recruiter of all time. But I also feel he has done a lot less with the talent he recruited (even in the 90s) than a better (play-calling) coach would of done. I truly believe if Spurrier was handed the same teams Bowden was recruited in the 90's, Spurrier probably would of won 3-4 more national titles. But on the flip side, Spurrier could of never recruited those players, because he didn't have the character. And since recruiting & play calling are both important when defining a college coach, Bowden was among the best.
I also find it hard to believe that FSU wouldn't of been able to establish a football program without Bowden. We may not have had the same amount of success, but then again.. we may have..Speculation is irrelevant.
re: He built the program with his judgment and has earned the right to never be questioned
That is allowing your emotions to control decision making, completely ignoring logic.
No player is bigger than the game. No coach is bigger than the game.
Our players deserve to play under a coach who is able to bring out the best in them. Bowden is no longer capable of doing that. So your essentially saying, to hell with all our players, Bowden has earned the right to continue coaching them... even if he is no longer capable of coaching them into better football players.. That is not acceptable.
And bitter harsh reality is this. When people get older, they begin to slip. Some people are able to recognize this and step back and hand over the reigns. Some people are not. They hold on tightly, longing for the past. They live off their past successes and refuse to acknowledge they are slipping. If you step back and look at this equation rationally and logically, there is only one decision that can be made.
We can continue living in denial at FSU and drag this out another 3-4 years, or we can make the right decision and begin rebuilding now.
Rick said:
posted on October 24, 2006 2:32 PM — 72.156.234.195 — link — abuse?
In my personal and completely unqualified opinion, the loss to BC is the best thing that could have happened to Florida State. As an alumni who has watched the FSU dominance decline since 2000 we as fans have been spoiled with the “next season” glimmer of hope that comes with an above mediocre but less than glamorous season. Each year we’ve seen the program sneak by a few games which have held us in contention for something worthwhile. As always it then follows that our following pre-season ranking puts us in a position where we either perform flawlessly, meeting the pre-season hope, or we continue a steady decline which is the realistic expectation that sits in the back of our head. In most conferences a season 2 or 3 games above .500 is something to “write home” about however to us spoiled FSU fans we expect nothing less than dominance. The greatest pride I have always taken with Florida State was not the over all record, but the at home win streak. Nothing got the blood flowing better than confidence in knowing that when the away team comes to Doak Campbell stadium, they’re going to get stomped on. 80,000 fans cheered and willed their warriors’ to supremacy.
But now here we are. For the first time in years, which I am too young to recall, our season has hit an all time low. We are only seven games into the season and we aren’t even in the running for ACC championship. In the game against BC our confidence was still high but our arrogance was even higher. “No way could we lose this game that meant so much to the season!” Notably in the first half the arrogance was ever present. We looked like we may still yet have the capability to win without true emotion. Unfortunately though as we have seen time and time again, a few bone head plays and all of a sudden we were rolling on the ground with a few gun shot wounds to our feet. Now getting back to my original comment, for the first time in the six years I’ve been a loyal Florida State fan I felt we had hit rock bottom. Finally we had to face humility. Something we had not seen in years, but something that I believe can finally turn this organization around. When the second half began, the true leadership of Drew Weathorford began to show. As the general behind a completely one dimensional offense Drew continued to move the ball with minor mistakes. Even with all of the effort that came from the entire team we came up short, so short that we are now looking at six games of a pointless season. Or is it?
This year we’ve been plagued with injuries and there is no understating PLAGUED! Plus if you look at every game we’ve played and lost this year we were within a touchdown of winning. We lost six guys to the draft last year and we have more freshman playing than I would like to admit. Besides all of those excuses we have the most athletic “group” of guys playing on that field but now they have something not many of them have experienced, HUMILITY! Even we fans have it. So where do we go from here, the only place a team on the bottom knows where to go, UP! Now we know that it will take more than a reputation to win a damn football game. They will have to work and work hard. They can now learn to play like a team who plays with nothing but talent and emotion and above that I hope some of us fans will learn to cheer on our team because of our love for the game. We now have a chance to prove that we are no longer the arrogant Seminoles of old but instead are a battered team with our backs against the wall and we we’ve got nothing to lose. Don’t be fooled by our record, Florida State is one hell of a football team. Now we can let the opposing teams’ arrogance get the best of them!
Darrin said:
posted on October 24, 2006 8:33 PM — 65.7.68.10 — link — abuse?
Call me an idiot if you like, but yes I believe that Bobby Bowden deserves and yes, has earned the opportunity to 'right the ship".
FSU has been one of the most dominant and fun programs to watch over the last 15-20 years. Very few programs can boast of the same success that we have been fortunate enough to be a part of.
The bar has been set high. And the bar should remain at that high level. But all programs go through peaks and valleys. Joe Paterno, Phillip Fulmer, Lloyd Carr, & Jim Tressel have all endured the fire or retire.com websites. I feel all three turned their respective programs around.
Look at what happened to Nebraska when Tom Osbourne retired. It's taken several years for them to be close, not at the same level, just close to the level they were playing at when Osbourne was there. So I caution you, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
I do agree with most in saying that Jeff Bowden needs to go. Either quit at the end of the year, or be fired by the head coach. Jeff has had his chance to succeed. Top recruits at a top school. It does not get any easier than that.
We all have opionions. But they are just opionions. That doesn't mean that I am an idiot or I'm wrong because my opionion is different than yours. Lets discuss this with some class. The program deserves better. And as FSU fans we should show some respect to the program and to each other as loyal fans. After all, at the end of the day we are a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks. Nothing more, nothing less.
Jon said:
posted on October 25, 2006 1:20 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
re:Lets discuss this with some class. The program deserves better. And as FSU fans we should show some respect to the program and to each other as loyal fans.
The pissed people are only following the classless lead of coach Bowden. He has clearly stated an ultimatum: 1) He will not fire Jeff. 2) If Jeff goes, he goes.
I'm sorry but that is not class. The vast majority of FSU fans want Jeff Bowden gone. Whether you like it or not, his ultimatum places you in an ultimatum:
1) Stand with the crowd that believes keeping Bobby is not worth keeping Jeff.
or
2) Stand with the crowd that believes Bobby has earned the right to immunity with his decisions, regardless of how bad it gets.
I warn you, make your choice wisely.
Darrin said:
posted on October 25, 2006 8:06 PM — 65.7.69.134 — link — abuse?
Jon, you sound more like a gator fan. Are you sure that you are on the right site? Just kidding Jon. Take a deep breath, count to ten, have a drink. I have not read or heard many comments from the pissed people you are talking about. Only you seem to be a bit stressed out over this.
I clearly state that I believe Jeff Bowden should go at the end of the year. Either be fired by Bobby or step down. Try not to take things out of context when commenting. It might help your argument out a little.
I think most agree that Jeff is the problem. I agree that the chances of him being fired by Bobby are slim to none. So I put the burden on Jeff. He should step up at the end of the year and resign.
I guess some FSU fans have come to the crossroads. We are now in the "what have you done for me lately" crowd. It's sad to see the lack of respect being showed to the winningest coach of all time. The man who took FSU to the top. The first 25 years with Bobby at the helm went a little like this. These stats are through 1999. The past 5 years have not been a total bust either.
Record-231-53-4
National Champs (1993 & 1999)
Undefeated Regular Seasons (1979, 1996, & 1999)
Bowl Games-fourteen straight bowls without a loss
(1985-1995)
Bowl Games-Eleven straight bowl wins (1985-1995)
Heisman Winners-oneI guess we should throw all of this out too. What about the ACC titles? I guess they should go also. Oh, I almost forgot, and throw Bobby out.
Jon said:
posted on October 26, 2006 7:19 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Darrin:
I clearly state that I believe Jeff Bowden should go at the end of the year. Either be fired by Bobby or step down.
I think most agree that Jeff is the problem. I agree that the chances of him being fired by Bobby are slim to none. So I put the burden on Jeff. He should step up at the end of the year and resign.
I'm confused with your answer. Posting Bowden's career statistics = irrelevant.
Again I ask, which side of the fence are you on:
1) Stand with the crowd that believes keeping Bobby is not worth keeping Jeff.
or
2) Stand with the crowd that believes Bobby has earned the right to immunity with his decisions, regardless of how bad it gets
Please answer the question. Who are you standing with?
Also, please define a point (number of years with sub-par performance) where it becomes unacceptable for Bobby Bowden to continue holding his job if he refuses to fire Jeff.
This isn't an argument, so no need to post statistics and comment on your perceptions of how pissed I am. I just want an exact answer to those questions.Darrin said:
posted on October 26, 2006 8:36 PM — 65.7.95.11 — link — abuse?
Jon:
I've already stated that I believe Bobby Bowden deserves the opportunity to right the ship. I think he has earned that right. My opinion is based on what he has done for FSU, college football, and yes based on his irrelevant stats.
I can't answer all of your questions because they are based on "what if" scenarios. How bad it gets? If he refuses to fire Jeff. Number of sub-par performance years. All speculation, which is irrelevant. And I believe you used those words in an earlier comment. Speculation is irrelevant.
What's a good year? Winning the ACC title and playing in a BCS bowl game like they did in 2005? Or was this considered a sub-par performance year? Everyone's perception on success is different. To me, 2005 was a good year. 2006 is not over with yet.
Jon said:
posted on October 27, 2006 1:27 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Darrin -
That is exactly my point. Nothing gets done with you refuse to define anything. Everything is open to interpretation. These debates should only have a place in politics, football has a clear set of relevant, measurable statistics. We can continue dancing in circles or we can setup specific performance objectives and judge him accordingly. I would suggest these objectives be defined (in-part) by the boosters, since their money is highly relevant in the equation.
And if we had a decent AD, that is exactly how it would have been handled when they hired Jeff Bowden. They would of told him we expect x-y wins/losses, we expect x number of passing yards, y number of rushing yards. You are allowed to deviate z% for this many years before you are fired.
Accountability. This program should never hire another coach without establishing clear objectives....and meeting every few years to re-evaluate those objectives and adjust accordingly.
gatorhippy said:
posted on October 27, 2006 1:53 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Darrin (#64):
In order to correct a problem, don't you normally need to know how the system operates?
What I'm saying is that in order for B. Bowden to "right the ship" doesn't he need to know what is going on in the scheme of things...
He wasn't even sure if the Noles "were trying to block a punt there"...
Bobby didn't even know what the score was at haltime of the UF/FSU game last year...
He is out of the coaching & game plan loop...
He doesn't even have the headphones on him during the game...
If YOU were the coach and your team had been playing so poorly wouldn't YOU at least want to be monitoring the play calls during the game and amend them as YOU saw fit...
I have to agree with Jon; How long do allow him the attempt to right the ship?
The Noles have been on a steady decline since there last MNC...
So is 7 years long enough? 10? 15?
The ship is not just tilted right now, it's sinking and needs to be put into port, repaired and given an new captain...
Reaper said:
posted on October 27, 2006 10:19 PM — 75.200.184.200 — link — abuse?
Without turning this into a meaningless flame post I'll try to defend my brief statements.
Jon
I choose emotion as my judge for the simple fact that football is played and coached with emotion. I gave my "feelings" on the matter. If everything in life was a statistic Spurrier, Osbourne, Paterno, Fulmer and even Bowden would be out of jobs. If you set a bar, be careful how high you set it because you may overlook the only thing that will ever get you there. Those who decide the fate of coaches will choose their "feelings" over statistical analysis everytime. Look at Coker at Miami. He is a big time winner statistically, but they hate him there. Why, a million different "feelings" of why he shouldn't be there or can't get thhe job done. Coker is doomed, he knows it. He can't open a door without someone saying he's incompetent and that they have a new and better to oppen doors. I don't feel he's the best recruiter, but to many people have their hands too far in Miami's cookie jar for him to ever recover. To many people see the, " ok if we do this, and this, and then maybe this we'll win championships forever". I don't see you as that type Jon, just stating the obvious. As for questioning Bowden, I can only think of a couple of people who are, in all respect, "worthy". He's not god, but he is a proven winner on a scale no one has yet to see. When you step to a "winner" and I mean step face-to-face with them, you better have a resume equal to or exceeding in merit to ever be credible in your interpretation of any fault they may have. I don't remember Jordan ever being questioned on why he did this or that as a player. Why? Who can judge him? Who could step up and say you shouldn't have taken that shot or made that pass? Magic, Thomas, Bird and that's it in the 80's and no one could in the 90's. Sure he went out bad, but he earned the right to go out his way. Bowden has done the same. Speculation as to were FSU is going is pointless as long as Jeff is there. It would take his resignation to find out were Bobby is as a coach. Bobby coaches only when FSU trails in the second half, Jeff coaches the first half. He tried to give Jeff the team, and I like everyone else see it will never happen. In my eyes he was wrong in doing so, but who am I to question. I didn't build that team from scratch, he did. I didn't take FSU to two championships and 4 title games in 7 years, he did. I didn't make the words college football and FSU synonamous with Bowden a hundred miles in every direction out of Tallahassee, he did. Rome wasn't built in a day, neither was FSU football. Rome was destroyed though by to many people deciding they can do a better job leading the chaos. Funny how FSU football "fans" are much like a Roman mob. Sure the truth of mob rule is power in numbers can accomplish X, but to go to war on Bobby is the same as going to war on an emperor who has provided as best he can, and quite plentifully I might add. Hit when there down, the mob mentality. I call it greed. FSU are getting to greedy and to arrogant, especially when you call Bobby's job into question. As for Bobby coaching players, he coaches them, not their talent. You can tell a kid anything, Spurrier, and he'll do it. But if you make him believe, Bowden, he'll do it and then look to do it better. That's what makes Bowden special, that's why he can recruit, that's why his players make it in life.Jon said:
posted on October 28, 2006 5:38 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Reaper - fair enough, I simply disagree.. And get used to seeing people ready to burn things down when someone does not do their job (fire inept son) for 6 years. This debate is truly at the heart of conservatism vs liberalism. Loyalty to pass performance vs loyalty to recent performance and where it is likely to head. But as the years pass and as this institution is dragged down the toilet, I ask you to remember this debate..
Jon said:
posted on October 28, 2006 6:20 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
From a recent interview posted on espn.com
Schad: What will you do if a president or athletic director tells you to make changes to your coaching staff?
Bowden: Won't work. I see that a lot. They don't want to fire the coach so you have to get rid of so and so. I don't work that way. I believe in loyalty to my guys. If they aren't working hard, I will get someone else. The public wants a hanging. I won't play that game. If you want to put me out of coaching, try to get me to play that game.
Schad: Some people blame your son, Jeff.
Bowden: If my son were not the coordinator, I don't think you'd hear half the things you hear. If you hire a son, you are going to catch it unless you win every game. The most unjust thing in the world is public opinion. The public judges him guilty already.
Schad: What about making a change there, to help relieve the pressure of the situation?
Bowden: We're tougher than that. Do you think that I would let a fan out there or a sportswriter tell me who to hire? if I do, I should not be in coaching. Any coach who listens to fans is going to be sitting with them pretty soon.
At this point, the problem should be clear. Reference his answer to the first question. "I believe in loyalty to my guys. If they aren't working hard, I will get someone else." This tells me we have a coach that values a persons "work ethic" over their "success/failure rate" or "competency". If he actually used this mentality all of his career, he was lucky to be successful. His whole career was an anomaly, a function of being in the right place, at the right time. However, I do not actually believe that. I believe that his ego and desire to prove people wrong = his #1 motivation. He believes he is beyond criticism and a declining number of fans do to...
But guess what? A few years ago (2004) when I started calling for Jeff Bowden's job, I was one of the few people willing to make that statement. Time has turned, this program has gotten worse and a lot more people are waking up... Over the next few years, as this program continues going 7-4, 6-5, and 5-5.. more and more people will shift and eventually the levy will break.Annette Robertson said:
posted on October 29, 2006 12:56 AM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
Well, I'm hurting just like the rest of you with our record -- but honestly, some of you FSU fans need to settle with regard to Bobby.
This ride (which began my sophomore year at FSU) wasn't going to last but will come back. 31 years this gentleman has been at FSU and while we do need to recruit better, Bobby deserves much more respect (God, do I even need to tell you guys this!) than he's getting with blogs like this! I am truly sickened by the loss we had tonight but that will not make me act like you and be so disrespectful to a man who is HUGE in college football and brought FSU to where we are today. It sucks to be losers and out of the top 25 but be mature and respectful to Bobby and all that he's done for us. I have been to numerous games while living thousands of miles away from Tallahassee. That's what he gave us -- I am beginning to hear ugly southern men (like the ole Georgia Bulldog guys and Florida men) who were incredulous when FSU started beating on them. Is that what my FSU guys have turned into? Do a little reflection and realize that sometimes your needs are not the most important. So many Division I teams have gone through the same thing nationally and right in our state. We need to be respectful to Bobby. The supporting staff will not break or make our season --
okay, bring on the comments but first, do a bit of reflection.I am sick about our record but it's certainly not about me or you -- we still love our Seminoles and should continue to support Bobby while he chooses to do what he does.
Jon said:
posted on October 29, 2006 8:50 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Annette Robertson - pipe down. If Bowden has all the character that everyone claims he has, he will have no problem proving us wrong...and silencing us. Remember, us "fair-weather" fans only need to be pacified with wins.
He is not fighting us.
He is not fighting the other team.
He is fighting himself.
When he surrenders... and considers the possibility that "sport writers and fans" could actually have a point... and stops trying to dismiss everything that doesn't coincide with his unadaptable, cookie-cutter belief system....then you will see improvement.
The harder he fights, the bigger he lets his ego get, the more he will burn.
Dusty Rhodes said:
posted on October 29, 2006 9:33 AM — 76.177.199.124 — link — abuse?
I graduated from FSU during a time when it wasn't "cool" say you were a Seminole football fan. An example of my point is that Lee Corso was our quarterback and Buddy (Burt) Reynolds was a second string halfback. Coach Bowden has brought more class to our school and our football program than any of us could have imagined when a victory over Furman or the the Citadel was celebrated. After all that he has contributed, FSU should be very proud to keep him as head coach as long as he wants!
Jerrod Gianca said:
posted on October 30, 2006 2:46 AM — 66.176.73.227 — link — abuse?
Unfortunately Bobby Bowden has forgotten his fans! He has forgotten how to listen to them or care about them!
I was livid with ESPs' attempt to silence the FSU faithful this past week-end. It is like having a New Yrk Lawyer come into the South as a trial lawyer for a local "Bully." In essence Kirk Herbstreit & even Lou Holz stated that we, the fans, should keep our mouths shut & live with Bowdens bad decicion making in the last 5 years! Herbstreit stated, " Fsu does not have the talent they had in past years!"; as if though that did not come about for a reason. It came about becuase over the past 3 years FSU has looked terrible. A ACC champion to go into a Bowl game sporting 4 straight losses, not to mention a humiliation at the hands of the Gators, last year did nothing for recruitment. While all other teams in the ACC have updated their offenses & bought in new coaches, not to mention Irbin Myeres success at Gainseville; have only accented Bowdens failures!
Strangely, for me the Maryland game offered a ray of hope for our future. After the veiled reason for benching Weatherford, XLee performed wonderfully. He threw the defense off guard by rushing and moving in the pocket! He held poise & through no interceptions. In fact I was hard pressed to find but a couple freshman mistakes. Remember though, this is the man Bowden has kept benched for 2 years! When our hurt players return & the freshmen and sophmores that have been seeing action this year unite, we should have a good shot for the future. This year is lost. There are further humiliations to come!
When given the opportunity to set back & review his son Jeff Bowdens performance over the past few years, Bobby Bowden dismisses it & will not correct the problem. He shows little enthusiasm for his team in late years! During his post game interviews & when questioned about plays, Bowdens retort is "Oh that was #6 who did that" (as if he doesnt even know his "Kids" names. Asled about certain plays, his response is " Oh I didn't see that." Can U possibly imgaine Irbin Myer stating He did NOT see that? Its ridiculous!
Boby Bowden is great & we deserve the right to remember him as being great! he built our program! He has bought in billions for the university over the years! He is not God however, and his dismissiveness to us; is unacceptable!
AS for Esp Keep Your nose out of situations you have no feeling for! We resent you for it!
Most telling of all, at the post game interview after the Maryland loss; when asked Bobby do you have anything to say to your fans? His response: "No .. anything to say to the fans? No nothing at all. I have nothing to say to the fans!" His face contorted into disdain & then obviously having realized what he just said he added, "we got SOME good fans out there!" Enough said!
Nolegods said:
posted on October 31, 2006 10:09 PM — 72.154.70.222 — link — abuse?
Bobby, you were the greatest. But now the game has passed you by. You haven't actually coached a game on the field in twenty years, and when you put on those headphones, everyone in the stands knows that "bad" is about to get worse.
My first time at Doak Campbell was the Stolen Game in 1966 (Gary Pacic's pass to Lane Fenner for a TD with seconds remaining, nullified by a bad call from ref Doug Mosley). I love the Noles and always will. Thanks Bobby- but it's past time for you to make room for someone else before the program deterioriates further.
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Ad Rock said:
posted on September 20, 2006 9:47 AM — 72.145.231.140 — link — abuse?Bobby can stay as long he likes in my opinion. He's earned it. Perhaps the lack of loyalty, as seen by the formation of the above website, is indicative of gretaer problems in our society? We truly have become the "what have you done for me lately" country.
I don't think I am alone, but the problem, once again in my opinion, is the management of the offense. In recent years (with last year as an exception) they recruited the top offensive talent in the country. If they cannot execute, it is obvioulsy coaching. The offensive coordinator must go. I know that is Bobby's decision, but as we all know, it is his son. This is why nepotism must never be allowed (for those that don't know, FSU has a policy against such hires, but a waiver was approved for Bobby to hire Jeff).
The president of the university should sit down with Bobby and review the obvious - Jeff can't do the job. Micromanagement is bad, but the indicators are there: no offensive production and a talented group of offensive players that have no discipline (penalties, misdirected plays, etc.).
Bobby should be given the opportunity to course correct. If the president gives him the objective feedback needed, I feel Bobby can make the right decisions.
That, Mr. Frink, is grace.