October 28, 2006
Noles find XL light in the darkness
This has been --without question-- one of the most frustrating seasons for Florida State fans. The lack of success on the field has boosters questioning Bowden's future and the FSU faithful looking for a light in the darkness.
Tonight, after what some suggested was a well-orchestrated con, QB Drew Weatherford was benched with (a previously unreported case of) tendinitis in favor of backup QB Xavier Lee. Presented with the opportunity, Lee delivered in XL fashion.
Lee was 22-36 for 286 yards with 2 TDs and no interceptions. He also ripped off 57 rushing yards improvising when the pocket broke down or when the opportunity presented itself. With Lee under center, the FSU offense had spark - scoring touchdowns on drives of 72 yards, 80 yards, and 80 yards. For once, an FSU opponent was left guessing on defense - having to play the run, the QB draw, and the passing game. More than anything, Lee kept his team in the game.
While FSU didn't win, Xavier Lee gave FSU fans something that might mean even more for the Noles... hope.
Comments:
Jon said:
posted on October 29, 2006 8:35 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
A genuine effort to classify this game: Chaos
Judging what I seen (vs. Maryland), this is my analysis:
1) Offense still has horribly poor timing.
2) Offense has very little flow.
3) It took us 8-9 people to block a weak 4-man front. A decent team will put constant pressure (80% of the time) on our QB without blitzing. Our blocking game = crippling us.
4) System shows no signs of ability to slow down (adapt) and take what is given. Very little structure. It was almost like a cheap suite. Instead of actually understanding and grasping what was going on (coaching), it seemed like we just randomly picked plays, with no regard to the conditions at hand.
5) Bump and run (with decent corners) and blitzing from random places (attacking directly up the middle, instead of from the perimeter = what will expose us)
6) Again, much props to Mickey Andrews. That defense is really hurt by injuries, but I still love his system. I see a ton of potential..Next year this defense will be scary because of how it is having to play right now...
7) Maryland was not coached well. They played like a team that didn't want to hold the lead. They kept bringing the same mundane blitz package, allowing the HB/FB to easily pickup the same blitzing LB like 20-30 times, instead of sending him from different position. They knew they were out-talented, so they came in with a mundane modified nickel and dime defense and stuck to it. The funny thing is, their CB's failed in implementing the key philosophy of the defense they were playing...and they still won.
For what it's worth, I hope I'm dead wrong. I did enjoy watching this new found success. Good luck Noles.
Joe said:
posted on October 29, 2006 9:29 AM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
Don't know if I agree with X -Lee being put in on the basis of a "con", I will leave that for those FSU fans that somehow believe Bowden to be patently dishonest despite his history being just the opposite.
I do agree it was a most disappointing loss.. Whatever happened to the DEFENSE? I realize there are injuries but Jeesh! had FSU played respectable defense Lee's surprising efforts and success would have almost been story book.
It does appear that Lee is the hope of the future with Weatherford moving down to 1A as a most quality backup. From my view, it looks like a 2- quarterback system despite Bowden and the coaching staff's aversion to such a set up.
Perhaps the offensive staff will begin the "unique" ??? Andrew's philosophy of using lots of substitutions to get more of the "Team" involved.
Personally, I would find that most refreshing.____________________________________
Now if only that segment of Nole Fans that have become "A NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT" will just shut up and be supportive fans, life could actually be good for the Nole Nation!!!
As bad as FSU has slipped nothing has been more embarrassing than this certain group of fans abhorrant behavior, fueled by delusional entitlement claims by these individuals that never coach or play the game. I find this measurement of self worth to be absolutely pitiful. They need to grow a sack!!
Wouldn't it be wonderful if these FSU fans would begin to enjoy the journey rather than spending their lives bitching and moaning about some tragically flawed "birth right" that they seem to believe they are owed yet have absolutely no control over??As an FSU fan every loss certainly hurts, but I gave up hating the team and program I support long ago. It is called "growing up" and realizing what a TRUE fan is. We don't coach or play. We support Win Or Lose... Save our displeasure towards the opponent and lousy refs.
Jon said:
posted on October 29, 2006 11:37 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Joe -
You know what you sound like?
You sound similar to the people that came out and attacked everyone who was against the war. "You guys aren't patriotic", "you guys want terrorist to win" and "you guys aren't true Americans".
ESPN, Lee Corso, Kirk Herbstreet and rest of you...
You guys keep making the mistake of labeling us as 'Entitled Fans' that "have no idea what their talking about".
We support the players.
We support the team.
However, we do not support piss poor coaching.Just like...
We support the solders.
We support America.
However, we do not support piss poor politicians.
And, we do not support going to war for the wrong reasons.*hugs and kisses*
Jimmy said:
posted on October 29, 2006 1:30 PM — 71.237.94.110 — link — abuse?
Joe,
While calling it "A NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT" may overstate the scope of these actions, they are neverless very disappointing.
Reactions when things are not going as well as you would like, really do tell a lot about one's character. As a lifelong Seminole fan, I do not believe these actions speak for only a small percentage of Florida State's fans. However, the vocal minority distort the perception of many.
You do not have to look very far into the past to see similar actions by fans across the country in places like Penn State, Auburn and Florida. At the time these activities shine poorly on their programs. In hindsight, actions like trying to replace Tommy Tubberville at Auburn the year before he leads the team to an undefeated season seem downright idiotic.
So, Seminole fans, we are not suppose to be satisfied with a down year. We certainly should not like it. At the same time, we should remember who brought us the good times and work with them to quickly bring us more of them.
LarryNole said:
posted on October 29, 2006 2:38 PM — 160.131.162.14 — link — abuse?
I don't care how Xavier Lee got the start. However, I do believe his performance earned him another one. Drew Weatherford had 20 starts to get it right and I think it's safe to say that he did not.
The exibition XL put on last night was what a lot of fans in the Seminole Nation needed. XL even made Jeff Bowden's play calling look pretty good.
Sort of reminded me of Charlie Ward, but XL has a chance to be even better than Ward. Now wouldn't that be something Special?
And it wasn't the defense that let the team down, I think special teams and some dropped passes and a key fumble had more to do with the NOLES misfortune than anything else.
If the FSU coaches do the right thing and let XL start the remainder of the season, then next season is already shapping up to be a nice one. And can you imagine this group of players two years from now with XL at the controls. It will be like watching a nine year old kid playing a video game against his dad.
Nole4Life
ky nole said:
posted on October 29, 2006 3:35 PM — 74.138.147.240 — link — abuse?
Xavier deserves to stay. He should have been played much earlier, but that is how it happens in Tallahasse. Jeff Bowden's departure is way overdue. It has led us to the worse season ever. No bowls this year. What a disgrace to play in one of those sympathy bowls for a program such as this. It's about time to get your heads out of your asses and make some changes. If Bobby doesn't like it then so long. It's better than driving into the ground. Xavier may be the only going on offense. Goodbye Drew.
gatorhippy said:
posted on October 29, 2006 3:58 PM — 70.121.104.140 — link — abuse?
Sure, Joe...
Bobby has earned the right to leave on his own terms despite the annual decline since the second MNC in 1999...
Just like Nero had the right to play his fiddle while Rome burned to the ground around him...
I think I'm gonna start a website:
KeepThe Bowdens.com
That said, X-Lee looked great last night...
If Buster Douglas would step up and get his Defense fired up (along with some better scheming from Mickey)these close losses would have turned into close wins...
C-DOGG said:
posted on October 29, 2006 6:15 PM — 24.131.224.89 — link — abuse?
FSU fans,
Hang in there, keep your head up. As a Canes fan let me say to you guys... let people get their shots in on us while they can. It's only a matter of time (2 yrs?) before the Miami/FSU game will be for a spot in the National Title. My only concern with you guys is that you can't get rid of your coach (think Penn State), we can.
Regan said:
posted on October 29, 2006 8:06 PM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
As a lifelong Clemson fan and more recent (since 1995) Miami guy as well, I have really hated the 'Noles ever since the 'Puntrooski (sp?) Game' of 1988, and resented the way that FSU took over Clemson's role as the dominant factor in the ACC back in '92.
Only money kept me from going to the U of Miami in the mid-and late-90's, and I have ardently supported the 'Cane teams after seeing how they shed the dark days of probation and became the better program for it - Even Now...
Yeah, the 'Noles and I aren't exactly the best of pals when it comes to the gridiron. :) Let's face it, tremendously successful teams make great 'bad guys' for others to root against in our underdog-loving society. See any of my past rants about Southern California over the past 3 years for examples. :)
Making this all the more interesting is that the overwhelming vast majority of FSU fans I have run into (somehow even most of the ones online, somehow...) are remarkably respectful, well-reasoned, and gracious. Any college football fan couldn't help but be impressed by this...it made the 'Noles even rough for me to hate. :)
I for one caught myself looking at FSU's 4-4 record, visualizing the fact that a losses to WF & UVA (possible), coupled with what most expect to be a loss to UF would spell a bowl season with the Florida State Seminoles at home watching TV.
Strangely enough, I didn't like that prospect. FSU, for all the games I have watched, wanting whoever the other team was to win, has a legendary and highly-respectable program, a bonafide tradition, and I have found that I take no pleasure in watching them in the cellar of the ACC.
I for one am glad they are no longer the terror in the ACC, and I hope that that somehow they never take Clemson's perch as the team with the most ACC Championships, but geez I can't help but root for these kids to overcome this funk and become a great program once more.
Best of luck to the 'Noles to turn it around with Lee, Weatherford, or whoever is best to right their ship; College Football would be the better for it...
ky nole said:
posted on October 30, 2006 12:01 AM — 74.138.147.240 — link — abuse?
I think the offense has been the stickler, with some of the best talent out there for 5 years. Freshmen, Senior, whatever. This is not the first time players have left and younger guys come in. It has been a steady downfall since Jeff took his position. Granted there have been bad player choice also. Like Rix starting as long as he did. The pressure is on like never before when it comes to recruiting. Florida should steal many this off-season. Bobby built it and there is no doubt he is great. The decisions have to be made in the good of the program. Jeff is his son but he is not good at his job. The offense is not a draw for the best talent right now. Xavier playing is a great move. That kind of talent should know there will be opprotunities to play if you stay. Rix situation crapped that away and started to do the same with Weatherford. 30 years of winning will not survive a couple of mid to last ACC finishes or possibly losing seasons. The bar has been set and there is no reason not maintain it. I see it with Kentucky basketball every year. 23 wins last year but lost the conference and didn't get to the final four. Worse seed in the tournament in I don't know how long. We play for championships and money. If we don't win we get neither. If we don't get that, well we won't be the best or have a chance to be more. As a booster, we have a lot of pull when it comes time for a donation.
Ash said:
posted on October 30, 2006 7:19 AM — 69.21.116.14 — link — abuse?
Smoke and mirrors, that’s what everyone is seeing; We’ve earned our fourth loss this season and are not looking good to even be bowl eligible. We have Virginia next who just beat NC State, for those who don't remember NC State beat us, and then Wake Forest, who is better then Maryland. X-Lee coming and performing well is nothing more then smoke and mirrors, remember he was terrible in the Duke game.
Meanwhile Bobby Bowden is going on National television and saying there’s is nothing wrong with the program. He said that we need to be patient, after all were playing all lot of freshman and sophomores. Last year we had juniors and seniors and where did it get us? We have substantially gotten worse over the last five years; in the mean time everyone is trying to protect Mr. Bowden. This is not a one year issue, if it was we could ride it out. Mr. Bowden is in denial and refuses to change the position of Offensive Coordinator. Lou Holts was the same way about his son in South Carolina, and look what happened there, and that was not as strong a program as Florida State.
What’s it going to take; 5 losses, 6 losses, not even going to a bowl, and even if we do what kind of bowl would it be? As we get worse and worse and Florida gets better and better, where do you think the top recruits will go to. Miami will right the ship, and challenge for the title again.
When do we make a change, as a reminder, next year we have Virginia Tech, Alabama, UAB, Colorado, Miami, and Florida. Let’s stop looking for one player to save the program and right this ship before she sinks.
Obie said:
posted on October 30, 2006 11:35 AM — 167.181.12.201 — link — abuse?
Okay I can agree with most people on this forum, But ash is finally makign me speak up!
For one yes last year we havent done well, for that matter the last 5 yrs has been a steady decline.
2. Can you really compare FSU and South Carolina??? Didnt think you should even mention the teams in the same sentence
3. Last year we had more juniors and seniors but we were still playing alot of freshman too, IE Drew Weatherford.
4. I can ride out this season I really didnt think we were going to be good anyway, did I see 4-4 coming?? Hell no, but did I see us going undefeated of course not!!
5. Ash I dont think you are seeing the entire picture, Drew is a good pocket passer but anything thrown over what 20 yards looks like shit coming from him, Im not saying XL is the answer to anything, but what I am saying is that when was the last time we have had that kind of offensive production against someone other than Duke?? The guy was looking good out there, and I personally see him as transfering at the end of the year not unless he sees more playing time.
6. People are judging XL on that Duke performance, yes it was bad, but I remember games Drew was throwing three ints also, He was averging Two a game, and if you add up XL playing time he is still a frehman as far as actually playign in a game. People, Fans, Critics or whatever you call yourself no days always come down hard on non-tradional pocket passers the kid is still new to playing time give him the same chance to fuck up that was given to drew. Drew has played 20+ games and still looks like shit, adn all everyone does is blitz the hell out of him, because they know he cant run for shit.
7. Just because Virgina beat NC State does not mean they will beat us, though I really expect them too, you cant use logical reasoning in football sometimes.
8. How is XL smoke and mirrors, he did well leave it at that, is he going to do that same kind of performance every week probably not, but does he deserve a chance . I really dont see what everyone else seems to see in Drew though, all I see is a guy whos scared to throw the ball 20 yards, and instead of taking shots downfield he would rather throw the the flats everytime. Dont come with that whole he was the leading passer int he ACC BS, because all they did was throw the ball, by chance he should have been the number one passer, he was also high on that list fo ints, people dont look at the good and the bad, they just try to prove there point. Which in essence im not trying to prove one im just saying.
Joe said:
posted on October 30, 2006 11:41 AM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Jon,
So the winningest coach in CFB is piss poor?
hmmmm? No denying that FSU hasn't been winning 10-12 games every year but to state that this is somehow "piss poor" shows about how credible your opinion is. More importantly...Please tell me again how much you as a fan contribute to FSU winning or losing for the last 30 years,so I can have a good laugh!!
You are a perfect example (or if I may borrow your own words)of "a Piss poor fan" that does nothing positive for the program. Pretty accurate statement from my view. The rest of that nation is disgusted and appalled by the attitude of a certain group of spoiled and "Self- entitled" FSU fans. Wonder why? Guess it takes someone on the outside that is not a rival to point that out. JMHO but I agree with them 100%. Try learning to be a fan for a change Jon.
Joe said:
posted on October 30, 2006 11:51 AM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Oh and gator hippy,
You call it a decline? Care to compare the accomplishments of the Gators compared to FSU in those 5 years of dismal decline??
FSU is having a bad season however for some gator fan to call FSU's performance a decline is ridiculous when compared to UF.
When was the last time the gators won the SEC?
How about the last time they played in a BCS bowl game?Create a website? That makes sense??? What is Bowden's record against UF? Spurrier when UF was actually dominant. Gators are having a great season enjoy it.
joesph said:
posted on October 30, 2006 12:19 PM — 64.39.146.199 — link — abuse?
Joe- can you tell me when the last time the ACC was as competitive as the SEC? No you can't because your conference just started playing for the ACC championship.You had better come to reality and figure out that FSU is never going to be as good as it once was beating everybody in a weak conference. Florida plays with big boys, not Maryland, Troy, Duke, NC State, and a wounded Miami(after losing 4 coaches, and a few starters 2 weeks before their game). The ACC is so easy, i mean just look at FSU. Last year they were 7-5 and some how just suprised V-T and won the ACC. i seem to remember just a few weeks before that Flordia stomping FSU. You fans are so mad because you don't have an excuse for this season. Your not having a rebuilding year and you do not want to blame Bobby, so you blame his son. Just face it, the University of Florida is recurting all the talent out of Florida.FSU sucks!!!!!!
Luke said:
posted on October 30, 2006 1:06 PM — 209.251.132.34 — link — abuse?
Haha I'm a Florida fan and everything is falling in to place perfectly. Miami and FSU both finally suck, all the good recruits are coming to Florida and it's not gonna change for a long time. We had a decline after spurrier cuz Zook was not a good coach.
FSU better figure out something to do fast because when florida rolls into your town it's gonna be an ugly home game for the Noles. Florida fans are gonna go and start a Bow-den chant. Jeff bowden is the best thing to ever happen to FSU, hhaha
gatorhippy said:
posted on October 30, 2006 1:17 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Joe, Joe, Joe...
Relax, dude...
Let's focus here...yes, FSU had the edge in the UF/FSU series for a decade...
But here is where the decline of the once proud Nole program begins...
FSU is .500 against UF since the 2000 season...with the almighty ACC 2005 champs getting slapped all over the place in Hogtown last year and a 2004 loss to a lame duck Zooker on a newly dedicated BB Field...
Since UF sucks so bad over that time (no conf. champ since 2000 or BCS bowls since 2001), that should be even more fuel to hotseat...
I'll be the first to admit UF is a very shaky BCS #4 right now and has had it's share of struggles in the transition after Spurrier...
However, when UF saw the ship going down with the Zooker, the school made the change; refusing to allow it sink...
FSU needs to start looking at the same...
Are you saying that FSU is not in decline?
Are you saying that a coach should be measured on his accomplishments that he has made and therefore all current performance is irrelevant and that coach also immune from judgement?
The defection of quality assisstants has caused Bobby's skirt to hike up a bit allowing his slip to show a little...
His lack of involvement in the monitoring of the game plan on a play by play basis and his blind trust in a downgraded support staff, really has to make you wonder what's going down in T-Town...
Bobby has admitted the probation periods of both UF and Miami largely benefitted the FSU program through the late Eighties and through the Nineties allowing him to pick up a number of recruits that might not otherwise been available to the Noles...
Looking at these things...
My question is how much of Bob's success has been being in the right place at the right time and picking up recruits that really had no where else to go in Florida?
How much is a direct result of assembling a terrific staff that has now either left the roost or is aging along with the Head Guy?
How much is the circumvention of a state law forbidding nepotism that now is causing a caustic grumbling among the very people that fund the program?
None of this will help a football team win ball games...
None of this will help with recruiting...
However, with the call for change coming all these things will hurt the recruiting process and winning culture that BB has worked to build...
Joe, because he built it does it give him the right to burn it down?
Jon said:
posted on October 30, 2006 6:24 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Schad: What will you do if a president or athletic director tells you to make changes to your coaching staff?
Bowden: Won't work. I see that a lot. They don't want to fire the coach so you have to get rid of so and so. I don't work that way. I believe in loyalty to my guys. If they aren't working hard, I will get someone else. The public wants a hanging. I won't play that game. If you want to put me out of coaching, try to get me to play that game.
Schad: Some people blame your son, Jeff.
Bowden: If my son were not the coordinator, I don't think you'd hear half the things you hear. If you hire a son, you are going to catch it unless you win every game. The most unjust thing in the world is public opinion. The public judges him guilty already.
87 11-1
88 11-1
89 10-2
90 10-2
91 11-2
92 11-1
93 12-1
94 10-1
95 10-2
96 11-1
97 11-1
98 11-2
99 12-0
00 11-201 8-4
02 9-5
03 10-3
04 9-3
05 8-5
06 4-4One word: Senile
One word for Joe: DenialTerry said:
posted on October 30, 2006 11:38 PM — 65.186.207.149 — link — abuse?
FSU has now found their quarterback. I am with some of you in that 1 loss is unacceptable. Been so spoiled by FSU's great record which nobody will ever duplicate again 14 years in the top 5 played for multiple championships and won 2 and on the verge of many more .. use to be the National Championship came through Florida, FSU or Miami ........ it will return I promise ... Xavier Lee was awesome and he is one big quarterback and has a huge arm and speed .. no Charlie Ward but closer than anybody that has ever played the game ...
posted on October 31, 2006 10:06 AM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue said:
UPDATE: Xavier Lee will start for FSU against Virginia this weekend.
Joesph said:
posted on October 31, 2006 12:15 PM — 64.39.151.25 — link — abuse?
Terry
just because Bowden put in a new quaterback doesn't mean a thing. Lee could't get it done against Maryland, how can you even mention his name in the same sentence as Ward's? All Bowden has done is given FSwho??? false hope.Joe said:
posted on October 31, 2006 2:07 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Two words for Jon - Ignorant, stupid.
Seriously Jon, Again, Please tell us how you have helped FSU win or lose games since you have been a fan???
Cat got your tongue?___________________________
Oh and Gator Hippy... I have read for the last 17 years about FSU's impending decline from gator fans. Why should I believe you now??
----------------------------I see an extremely "young" team with many injuries not like the one when Chris Rix was given the starting job as FSU's first RS Freshman starting QB since Chip Ferguson. Seems FSU didn't do that well then either. With 6 starting seniors, I see an improving team in the future if "Cancer starters" like Jon will continued to be ignored by those that truly have made FSU what it is.
Try being a fan instead instead of working for our rivals. You do know what a fan is don't you?
That is someone that cheers win or lose for their team of choice. I realize that this is unknown to you and you feel that you are so much more important than that.Newsflash! You aren't!
JZNole said:
posted on October 31, 2006 2:16 PM — 12.177.80.3 — link — abuse?
good, I was starting to get worried that Tommy Keane was his next bright idea.
Jon - thanks for posting that. "Senile" is exactly right. When did Mark Richt begin as our OC?
1987-2000: 152-19-1 (.889 Win%)
2001-present: 48-24 (.667 Win%)24 losses in 5 and a half seasons!!!!!
Jon said:
posted on October 31, 2006 2:56 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Seriously Jon, Again, Please tell us how you have helped FSU win or lose games since you have been a fan???
Cat got your tongue?
Joe - you are failing logic 101. However, it's nice to see you building so many straw mans for Halloween.
Regardless of your feeble personal attacks..
Once again you have been owned.
Jon said:
posted on October 31, 2006 3:22 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
BTW - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15430249
JZNole -
-Richt played as a QB at Miami.
-He joined the FSU staff as a graduate assistant in 1985.
-He was FSU's QB coach for a year or so.
-In 1989 he left to be the offensive coordinator of East Carolina.
-The following year he was rehired as FSU's qb coach (held this position for 14 years)
-Richt took over the play-calling duties from Bowden in 1993 (he remained QB coach)
-December 26, 2000 = hired as Georgia's head coach.Joe said:
posted on October 31, 2006 8:59 PM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
Too much Coaching and player hating going on with FSU fans who wouldn't even be here if not for Bobby.
Still waiting for Jon to tell us all how much he has contributed to winning and losing football games?? Not holding my breath on that one!! LOL
Jon said:
posted on October 31, 2006 9:57 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Joe - are you mentally handicap?
If that is the Litmus test for having a valid opinion, we are all screwed.
1) I have been a booster. (Booster money = scholarships)
2) I have purchased season tickets.
3) I purchase FSU merchandise.
4) I attend FSU and once I graduate, I will do everything in my power to reflect positively on the University. (financially supporting the advancement of both academics and collegiate sports)
5) I care enough to stand against the hail storm of ignorance being spouted by people like you.I stand behind my beliefs and support them with facts. I openly challenge people (your ilk) to academic debates. I openly discuss these topics and try to bring them into the public eye. And my friend, I am thoroughly convinced that I am acting in the best interest of the University and the FSU football program.
Do us a favor, keep holding your breath.
Joe said:
posted on November 1, 2006 10:46 AM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Hey Jon,
I think I found someone that describes you and your opinion perfectly!!
"Until then, here’s a bit of advice for the pinheads who want Bowden out as coach of the FSU Seminoles:
Oh, shut up.It doesn’t matter what your name is. When you talk about football at FSU, Bowden is more important than you are. Got it?"
Not my words, but I think he pretty much nailed you and your ilk!! Hey!! don't shoot the messenger!! ROFLMAO!!
Link:http://www.sptimes.com/2006/11/01/Sports/Bowden_has_as_long_as.shtml
These are the facts:
Bowden is the winningest coach in CFB history and you wouldn't even be on this message board discussing FSU if it wasn't for him.
He has forgotten more about CFB than you will ever know but more importantly he has been a mentor of so many student athletes that have passed through FSU where they have been taught far more than football. None would besmirch and insult him like you choose to. Unfortunately, this defines you Jon. Not very flattering.
Would Bowden ever cast such aspersions that you have towards him? The answer is a resounding NO!!
You are what is wrong in CFB today. You have totally wrapped up your own self- worth into something you have absolutely no control over.Bowden has his accomplishments well documented. meanwhile you come off as some wierd fan that feels the football team that you are a fan of "OWES" you something??
Utterly ridiculous!!
It is just a game. You have such a conflicted viewpoint as you have totally wrapped up your own self- worth into the performance of the FSU football team. How silly!!Totally unhealthy IMHO. It is almost as if you hope for FSU to lose as that is your "cause" for celebration since it defines your utter hatred for Bowden.
What a absolutely poor example you are as a FSU fan. Learn some class and dignity for a change. You are embarrassing yourself.Shelton describes you well.
ky nole said:
posted on November 1, 2006 12:05 PM — 74.138.147.240 — link — abuse?
Young players are no excuse. Look around and you'll see a number of freshmen, sophmores making an impact. We have great talent but we are not getting the most out of it. Mainly offensively. The plays are not set up to work for some of the big recievers. Example, watch Louisville and their big reciever Mario Urita. He was an average recruit at best. He is excelling because the routes allow him to use his size to catch balls for 25 yards at a time. He absolutely killed Miami. We have recievers that are better and as big as Mario but we just throw it up and hope they come down with it. Our offense is not designed to pick apart teams, it is based on the hope of a broken tackle or a big catch. By the way the program was not only built by Bobby, were it not for Mickey Andrews and the best defensive program in the nation a lot of those games would have been lost. 4 first rounders last year on his side alone. Florida will steal numerous recruits next year. Thanks to their offense and the Patriots connection. When you can have Tom Brady work with Tebow in the off season that is a big draw for kids hoping for the NFL. The landscape is too competitive to let the program fall anymore than it has. Get rid of Jeff. Get someone in there that has NFL style and swagger. Get the program back to a respectable level. We can't afford two years like this in a row.
Jon said:
posted on November 1, 2006 12:25 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Bowden isn’t up for re-election. He has earned the right to exit when he wants, and if every game between now and then is hard for the critics to watch, well, tough.
Joe - this guy is in denial just like you. Bowden IS up for re-election. See, money is highly relevant in the equation. More and more boosters are going to withhold money due to his piss poor managing of the team (not replacing Jeff Bowden).
And whether you like it or not, a significant financial impact will dethrone Bowden.
And I'm willing to bet that fans who are smart enough to generate enough extra revenue to give to the university....are also smart enough to know when the University is making bad management decision.... and are also smart enough to withhold their contributions and speak out publicly, until this is corrected.
You and I have different definitions of success. I believe in public scrutiny. I believe someone should never be above performance requirements.
Use your imagination. What if it this is the case: The majority of games Bowden lost over the past 6-years were because he stopped trying. What if he believed he put in enough effort and delivered enough success initially, that he earned his place as the head coach for life. What if he stopped giving 100%. Since he is immune to public scrutiny, he has decided to give 50%. Maybe even 25%..Hell, what are they going to do??
That happens. People grow complacent. I have no idea if that is exactly what happened to Bowden, but there is only one way to make sure that it doesn't happen. Establish performance objectives. Make him accountable. Do not build a current football coach into a god. Do not allow him to tear down this program.
Joe - This is the last time I will respond to you. I respect your opinion, but intelligent fans know better.
Cane_Nation said:
posted on November 1, 2006 4:34 PM — 205.166.218.4 — link — abuse?
All of this bickering over Bowden is getting you nowhere. You're both right and your both wrong. He is the all time winningest coach in D-1 history. That does allow him A LOT of leeway. However it does not make him immune. A lifetime contract to anyone is a stupid thing to even say, much less actually give out. FSU dug their own hole. As a fan you are just a spectator, your opinion really doesn't matter that much. The university won't miss your $35 ticket, but that $35 ticket does entitle you tohave an opinion and make it heard. But enough about that.......
Here is the real problem.....
FSU/Miami's offenses are terrible and, as much as it pains me to say it, Florida is fun to watch. If you are a recruit in the state, where would you lean toward right now? The young coach with the exciting offense or one of the dinosaurs in terms of offensive schemes and coaches. We are about to get ourselves together, whether it be Davis or Schiano (I don't care which, or who, as long as it's a young, exciting coach). I just hope either Bowden gets it together or steps down for the sake of the program. I am NOT an FSU fan, but i do have respect for the program and who couldn't like Bowden. But we have a bigger fish to fry. If these two programs don't right the ship there will be a shift of power in the state, and none of us want it to go there. And Gator fans, it hasn't happened yet, but it is looming alot larger than I'm comfortable with.
nole kingdom said:
posted on November 1, 2006 5:19 PM — 207.160.205.13 — link — abuse?
WHILE COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS CERTAINLY NOT LIFE AND DEATH AND THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE TO BE CONCERNED WITH,I HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS AT FSU. FOR THE SUPPORTERS OF THE CURRENT FSU COACHING STAFF I OFFER THIS. I HAVE TREMENDOUS RESPECT AND PERSONAL ADMIRATION FOR BOBBY BOWDEN. I GREW UP IN PANAMA CITY, FL AND FSU FOOTBALL THROUGH THE 80'S AND 90'S. I HAVE ALWAYS APPRECIATED COACH BOWDEN'S HOME GROWN PERSONALITY, HIS PRACTICE OF CHRISTIAN FAITH AND THE WAY HE INTRODUCES CHRIST INTO THE LIVES OF ALL OF HIS PLAYERS THAT WELCOME HIS MENTORSHIP. COACH BOWDEN IS CERTAINLY ONE OF THE LAST , IF NOT THE LAST GREAT STORIES AND LEGENDS OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL. WHO WOULDN'T WANT A GRANDPA OR MENTOR LIKE THAT GUY. BOBBY BOWDEN IS A GREAT MAN. NOW, WITH THAT SAID, HE IS FAILING. HE IS FAILING AS A HEAD COACH BECAUSE OF HIS BLIND AND UNWAIVERING SUPPORT FOR A FAILING SUPPORTING STAFF. JEFF BOWDEN WOULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED AS A COACH FROM ANY OTHER PROGRAM YEARS AGO, NO DOUBT. THERE IS SIMPLY NO EXCUSE RETAINING HIM OTHER THAN NEPITISM AND GOOD'OL BOY POLITICS. I BELIEVED COACH BOWDEN WAS ABOVE THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR. CLEARLY THIS IS NOT THE CASE. HE HAS MADE IT CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT HE WILL NOT CHANGE THE COACHING STAFF AND HIS LOYALTIES REMAIN WITH THEM (COACHES). AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE COACH BOWDEN AT FSU NEXT YEAR WITH A NEW OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR AND Q-B COACHES TO TAKE ON THE DAUNTING SCHEDULE THAT AWAITS US, I KNOW THIS WON'T BE THE CASE. COACH BOWDEN HAS DISSAPOINTED ME WITH A NEW LOOK I HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE AND HOPE NOT TO SEE NEXT SEASON. SOMEONE IN A POSITION OF INFLUENCE SHOULD HELP CAUSE A CHANGE AT COACHING BEFORE WE LOSE ALL OF WHAT COACH BOWDEN DEVELOPED. I FEEL TERRIBLE FOR THE PLAYERS, THEY WERE RECRUITED WITH THE PROMISE OF OPPORTUNITY TO CONTRIBUTE AND BECOME SUCCESSFULL. THEY WERE MISLED. WORD WILL CIRCULATE AND WE WILL LOSE VERY TALENTED PLAYERS AND PROSPECTS. WHO CAN BLAME THEM. FOR THE FANS THAT BELIEVE THAT FANS SUCH AS MYSELF AND OTHERS ARE SOMEHOW "SPOILED" OR "SELF ENTITLED", YOU BET YOUR A$$ I'M SELF ENTITLED. I BUY THE TICKETS, THE PROGRAMS, THE MERCHANDISE. YOU BETTER BELIEVE I HAVE AN INTERST AS A FAN. NOT EVRYONE CAN BE A COACH OR A PLAYER. THE WHEELS TURN BECAUSE OF ALUMS, BOOSTERS, AND OH YES, THE FANS. COACH BOWDEN IS A SERVANT TO THAT UNIVERSITY FOR THE COST OF ROUGHLY $2,000,000.00 A YEAR. FOR THAT MONEY HE SHOULD DEMONSTRATE SOME LOYALTY (AND HUMILITY) TO THE SAME FANS HE MOCKS AND IS QUICK TO DISMISS AS FOOLS. THE INTERVIEW HE OFFERED (POST GAME-MARYLAND) INFURIATED ME, HIS ARROGANCE WAS OBVIOUS. HE OFFERS NO APOLOGY FOR THE CLEAR MISTAKES BEING MADE AT COACHING AND IS QUICK TO ATTACK ANY CRITIC. COACH BOWDEN SHOULD FEEL FORTUNATE HE INTIMIDATES THE A.D. AT FSU THE WAY HE CLEARLY HAS. ANY OTHER UNIVERSITY WOULD HAVE MADE THE CHANGE, WHAT'S FSU WAITING FOR? ANOTHER 5 LOSS SEASON! DON'T FORGET NOLES, IF YOU THINK THIS SCHEDULE HAS BEEN ROUGH, NEXT YEAR WE WILL HAVE AN IMPROVED COLORADO SQUAD, ALABAMA, MIAMI, FLORIDA, AND THE USUAL ACC (2-3) TOUGH ONES. FSU HAS THE TALENT TO DOMINATE THAT SCHEDULE, WILL WE HAVE THE COACHING? GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK NOLES!
Ash said:
posted on November 2, 2006 6:03 PM — 69.21.116.14 — link — abuse?
Every one keeps saying fans don’t have the right, to say in what direction a team goes. Their saying that buying a $35.00 ticket only gives you the right to watch the game. We are hearing that no fan plays a down or contributes to the game. That’s hog wash; would there be collage sports without fans? Tell Texas Tech that the fans don’t amount to anything and they’ll you about the twelfth man. Maybe one thicket holder doesn’t have much say but 75,350 may have a lot to say. I love our Seminoles, so much so I bought season tickets and became a booster this year, so I am spending more then $35.00 a ticket, and maybe I think I have a little more interest in the direction our team is going. If we were showing significant improvement in all areas, like Penn State, or Florida, maybe we could be patient. If we were loosing tough games that were fought to the end, maybe we could be patient. I don’t believe it’s just Jeff Bowden anymore. The recruiting has fallen way off and the caliber of our back ups has diminished over the years. Remember there was a time when Bobby would not play a freshman quarterback. What is going to wake you people up, yes Bobby Bowden has earned a right to go out on positive terms but not necessarily his own. But go he must, and soon, or he needs to correct the problems now.
Ash said:
posted on November 3, 2006 12:57 PM — 69.21.116.14 — link — abuse?
These quotes are from the FOX Sports website concerning the demise of Florida State Football.
The following is a link to the interview:http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/6131912?FSO1&ATT=HMA
“Nothing irritates the elder Bowden more than the criticism of his son. His voice rises and his sparkling blue eyes turn cold when he's asked whether Jeff is the cause of Florida State's troubles.
"That is so unfair, it's unbelievable," Bowden said. "OK, some of it is correct. But it's just blown so far out of proportion, it's unbelievable.
If you check our stats in the Atlantic Coast Conference, which is the conference we're in, we're on top of everything except maybe running."
In that respect, Bowden is right. Florida State ranks first in passing yards (251 yards per game), second in total yards (362) and third in scoring (a 28.2 average).
What he doesn't mention is how those numbers pale in comparison to the glory days.
For the 1987-00 seasons, the Seminoles averaged 38.7 points and 468.6 yards a game. Over the last five years, it dropped off to 30.4 points and 397 yards. They're headed for their third straight season of less than 30 points a game, which hasn't happened since Papa Bowden's first three years. The running game has become especially inept, averaging 94 yards in 2005 and ranking 10th in the ACC this season (111 yards).”Former Florida State quarterback Peter Tom Willis, an outspoken analyst on the school's radio network, has gone so far as to say that it looks like the Seminoles are running "a high school offense."
Ann Bowden also has chimed in.
"I've even asked him, 'Do you really feel that Jeff is making the right decisions,"' said Florida State's first lady of football. "He said, 'Look, if I didn't think he was, he wouldn't be out there."'
Then who is making these decisions?
Bobby Bowden is unmoved by the criticism. He points out that plenty of people called for his ouster at West Virginia after a losing season in 1974. After moving to Florida State, there were voices of discontent when the Seminoles slipped to 6-5 in 1981 after back-to-back appearances in the Orange Bowl.
Yes but they went 9-3 in 1982 and ranked 13th in AP. Right now we are 4-4 (looking to go 4-8) and ranked 5th in ESPN’s bottom 10.
"It's not as tough as you would think," he said. "If I was 40 years of age, it would be very difficult. I would be wondering if my career was over or about to be over. But most of my career is behind me anyway."
Is he saying that he doesn’t care about what he does?
Bowden points to numerous close losses - Florida State's four defeats are by a total of 19 points - and a rash of injuries on defense.
"In my 54 years of coaching, I've never had a year like this," he moaned. "Every game is the same ol' thing: one more play, one more play, one more play, one less penalty, one less turnover. I don't know how to account for it. But one of these days, we're going to come out of that and start making that one play."Like just getting 3 yards against Boston Collage.
Jeff Bowden said he's never discussed the idea of stepping down to take some of the heat off his father. "No. Never. N-O," he said defiantly.
"It's never been my nature to sacrifice somebody for a popularity contest," he said. "I don't play that game."
“Wetherell has said repeatedly that Bowden can stay with the Seminoles as long as he likes, which isn't surprising in light of their close relationship. When Wetherell played receiver at Florida State in the 1960s, Bowden was his position coach.
Although the coach's current contract ends after the 2007 season, athletic director Dave Hart said there's a gentleman's agreement to extend it one year at time. Hart wouldn't evaluate Bowden or his staff, saying "we'll do it just like we have the last 12 years — at the end of the season."
Maybe we are asking for the wrong resignation?
“Peter Mettler, a Palm Beach, Fla., attorney and former board member of Seminole Boosters Inc., praises the coach's brilliant career but said it's time for him to retire. In a letter to Wetherell, the booster wrote, "As our president, I urge you to be the leader I know you are, and do what has to be done."
How much more do we have to see before someone does something. It is obvious that Coach Bowden is in denial and Jeff is not the man everyone hopes he will be. Maybe the web site should be firewetherell.com.
ky nole said:
posted on November 3, 2006 1:21 PM — 74.138.147.240 — link — abuse?
I have never seen a team and a coaching staff go into a game without any fans and win. Fans mean money. You don't sell tickets you don't have money. To say the fans have no say in the direction is crazy. I know this, let the direction go the way it is now and see what happens to the fans and the program. Boosters don't put up big money not to have a say in where the money is going. By the way, boosters are fans. I am also a booster for UK basketball and the program is by far the best. There is no tolerance for losing. The fans let it be known, boosters use their money and the problems get fixed. I love both programs because we play for championships and nothing else. For some reason this program is wanting us to except being mediocre and that it is okay. Change is coming because just like at UK the fans will not tolerate this program going to shit.
Jon said:
posted on November 3, 2006 2:16 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Bowden points to numerous close losses - Florida State's four defeats are by a total of 19 points - and a rash of injuries on defense.
If Bowden is allowed to reference his close losses as part of his argument...
I guess we get to throw out his close wins also..
06
Miami (FL) W 13-10
Troy W 24-1705
Miami (FL) W 10-7
Maryland W 35-27
Virginia Tech W 27-2204
Syracuse W 17-13
Wake Forest W 20-17
North Carolina State W 17-1003
Georgia Tech W 14-13
Virginia W 19-14
Florida W 38-3402
Iowa State W 38-31
Georgia Tech W 21-13Excuse. After Excuse. After Excuse. After Excuse....
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 3, 2006 3:51 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
In respect of the ever turning current saga of FSU fans vs Bowdens, I give you the latest column from the Orlando Sentinel's Mike Bianchi...
Mikey is right...X-Lee will be doomed like the others before him if the change in the offensive philosophy and schemes doesn't come...
Mr. Bigglesworth said:
posted on November 3, 2006 7:39 PM — 69.252.177.67 — link — abuse?
I wish more Gator fans could be as mature as you Gatorhippy. The thing I don't understand is why there are so many FSU posts on the gatorbait website, does UF hate or respect FSU that much? Are they bitter after all those losses in recent years or is their hate filled diction the only way they can show respect for FSU without actually degrading themselves and being viewed as a traitor to the Gator Nation?
This may seem weird gatorhippy but FSU should have, could have won 9 NATIOAL TITLES. The 2 we lost to UF, 1 to Tennessee, 1 to OU, the 2 WE WON, and the 2 at the Orange Bowl to Miami in 85 and 92, and the 95 upset when we were NO.2 playing at shitty ass Virgina... If we could have won all of those, FSU could have been one of the greatest teams in the history of Collegiate Football. I think UF sees that and has a mutual respect for us.
Thanks again gatorhippy for having a mature demeanor.
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 4, 2006 8:08 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Well, Biggles, don't take my easy come easy go demeanor for a lack of hatred...
I hate the Noles as much as the next Gator and take extra joy in the current Nole on Nole bickering over the Bowden Nepotism Syndicate along with the current downward spiral of FSU football which began this year at the hands of the Clemson Bowden (3 of the last 4)...
As much as I like to see the Noles up and running well, as it makes for a more exciting game Turkey weekend, I no less take extra special glee in watching the Gators kick them when they're down...
I can't even say I have much respect for Bowden or the Noles as their success in the late 1980's thru the Nineties (other than closing the gap in the series with UF to ten games) was fueled largely by probations at UF and UM and the staff that Bowden had assembled rather than his actual coaching ability; which is what we are now witnessing since the 99 MNC run as key assistants vacated for head jobs at rival schools...
What I do have is a bit of understanding and a glimmer of sympathy over the Noles' situation as the Gators were facing a similiar downturn with the flight of the Old Ball Coach and the landing of the Zooker...
That said, Biggles, I state once again X-Lee's talent will be wasted at FSU as long as he is hampered by the current coaching situation...
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 4, 2006 9:41 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Just talked to my cousin in Tally...
He reported what seems to be a less than spectacular turn out this morning of FSU tailgaters and FSU fans in general, while seeing a larger than usual number of UVA fans...
It seems the lack of fan support is catching up with Bowden and less people are willing to make the trip to T-Town to watch an anemic offense...
Still rooting for X-Lee to rise above a situation that has been sinking promising Nole QBs since 2000...
But you have to wonder if the Cavs will be intimidated by a BB Field at Doak only three-quarters to two-thirds full...
Jon said:
posted on November 4, 2006 4:14 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
gatorhippy - it was parents weekend.. which is probably why the attendance didn't fall off even more.
1) First 2 TD's can be attributed to defense.
2) Then offense took over from 43 and drove 29 yards in 6 plays for a FG.
3) Then give defense another 2 pts (safety)
4) Then offense got a 3-play 50 yard drive (TD)
5) Then offense got a 6-play 74 yard drive (TD)X-lee = 12/25 for 184 (1 td,0 int)
Weatherford = 2/6 for 41 (0 td, 0 int)Rushing = 26 attempts for 118 ... 4.5 YPC
Defense = 16 pts
Offense = 17 ptsThe offense proved what I typed in the first post in this thread...Defense saved Jeff Bowden...yet again... But ignorance is bliss here in tally-town.
Ash said:
posted on November 6, 2006 6:12 AM — 69.21.116.14 — link — abuse?
I was at the game Saturday and, I have to admit I was impressed with our defense and special teams, they came to play. Our offense did like every other game; there were moments when you saw sparkles of WOW and then thud. X-Lee impressed me, but I think under a better Offensive Coordinator, he will be spectacular, I just hope it’s with FSU. The one complaint I have will Lee is he stopped running just before he would get hit and step out of bounds. As big as he is, he could have easily picked up five or six additional yards by attacking the defensive player. Instead he slowed down and meandered off the filed, that doesn’t strike me as team player.
Thompson said:
posted on November 6, 2006 8:59 AM — 205.223.222.254 — link — abuse?
Ash.. How could you say that Lee getting out of bounds before he was hit constitutes him as not being a team player. The guy is recovering from a shoulder injury and the last he wants to do is to get hurt while he finally has this opportunity of playing. What QB's do you know who don't either slide or run out bounds before getting hit. Please give him a legit chance of playing before we critique every single thing he does. The guy has to wlak on water for FSU's approval while Weatherford has been given such a huge margin of error. Support Lee because is the one who can help bring FSU back to being the nations best.
Ash said:
posted on November 6, 2006 2:08 PM — 69.21.116.14 — link — abuse?
Thompson it's not the running out of bounds that bothered me. It's how he slowed down and lolly gagged for a yard or two then went out of bounds. In both occasions he could have gotten 3, 4 or even 5 more yards at the end of the run, before any contact. And as to QB's running out of bounds before thier hit, who should i begin with Brett Frave and work my way down? I don't remember Charley or Chris laying off at the end of a run. That is the difference between a champion and just any ordinary player.
Jim said:
posted on November 6, 2006 5:09 PM — 207.55.226.14 — link — abuse?
We can blame Bobby and Jeff Bowden all we want to but the blame goes to the players as well. The Noles could very well have been 8-0 right now. But Bobby and Jeff are not the ones blowing coverages or dropping passes or missing tackles or taking sacks. The players need to be held accountable also. Its a team game the players are the ones who decide the game on the field as well as the coaches who need to plan for the opponent. This is what i see and im a die hard noles fan. Terrible game planning Terrible execution by the players on offense and defense. I do understand that there are 17 total freshmen starting for the Noles and we need to expect growing pains from them. I do see alot of potental for next season. If i have to cheer the noles on and hope we even get to a bowl game this year i will because i am a fan not an optimistic person when things go bad. I hope all the great Seminole fans look at the future and not look back at the past.
Ash said:
posted on November 6, 2006 5:22 PM — 69.21.116.14 — link — abuse?
Steve Ellis writes in the Monday November 6, 2006 Tallahassee Democrat page 1C, concerning the criticism of Coach Bowden, he speaks about the e-mails and letters the University released last week, and how T. K. Wetherell should respond.
He goes on to say “For those demanding change, I agree. It must take place on some level. But what’s the point of withdrawing your contribution and giving up your ticket for the sake of a change that’s going to happen anyway, without you gesture? Someday, Bowden, who turns 77 soon, will retire. Staff members will move on. And when you get your wish, you’ll be watching on TV or in worse seats in Doak Campbell Stadium then you have today.” He then went on to say “Then there were all the suggestions as to whom FSU should hire to replace Bowden. Some want Louisville coach Bobby Petrino, who as Wetherell note4d last week, will certainly want to brings his brother Paul – Louisville’s offensive coordinator. Isn’t nepotism what has so many riled up?”
As you can see they just don’t get it, all the cronies who are trying to protect Bobby Bowden’s place in history, just don’t get it. If Jeff Bowden were doing a great job, no one would give a rat behind about nepotism, but the fact that he is terrible at his job and would have been fired at any other collage football program, long before now and is only keeping his job due to nepotism, is what has us riled up.
What happens if we win 1 more game or 2, or heaven help us possibly beat the Gators? Their already saying look we’re back on track, we beat Virginia 33-0, and everything is fine. Last year we lost three in a row and by shear luck, we beat Virginia Tech for the ACC championship, only to loose to Penn State, in triple overtime. We all felt good about the new season, only to see the same anemic offense, that plagued us last year, resurface. We’ve already lost 1 less game then last year total; remember our 5th loss was the bowl game. We have Wake Forest coming to town, and they are definitely no Virginia, Western Michigan, won’t be a push over, and Florida is Looming. We have to win one of these last three to be bowl eligible. Which bowl will that be? We lucked into a BCS bowl last year, but who will want an unranked team, certainly not one that’s played on or about January 1st.
Next Year we have:
Home Away
Miami Florida
NC State Colorado - September 15
Maryland Alabama - September 29 (Jacksonville, FL)
Duke Boston College
UAB Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
ClemsonHow do you think we will fare with this schedule if something doesn’t change? I keep saying that Coach Bowden has earned the right to go out on favorable terms just not his own, and if money is the only bargaining chip we have, then maybe we have to hold back contributions and stop buying tickets, because nothing else seems to work.
What’s it going to take, how much longer are we to be patient, while Florida gets the better recruits, Miami recovers and becomes a power again. Do you think Virginia Tech is going to sit idle waiting for us to regain the ACC crown? Come on people the time is now, we must speak together, before this program is brought so far down that it never recovers (i.e. Duke). Now before Bobby’s legacy aren’t all those wins and the two championships, but how he left the game.
Joe said:
posted on November 6, 2006 5:28 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Ahhh FANS you gotta love em!!
Now if only they used their heads they might actually get some influence. Alas, they are a hopeless cause.
Will they ever make decisions on coaching and player decisions at FSU? JMHO but viewing the comments at FSU I would say not until Bowden decides to leave and even then I doubt it. FSU's boosters have little if any influence on hiring and firing. Fortunately those are largely found in the SEC. There is a reason that SEC teams are perpetually in trouble with the NCAA and it is due to booster influence on their programs.
Despite all the whining and crying those that truly will make decisions will be unswayed by fan opinion at FSU. TAKE IT TO THE BANK!!
As to Seminole boosters and "“Peter Mettler" Lets just say he does not speak or represent the Seminole boosters and the backlash has been great against this misguided "pinhead" that chose to make himself visible. Quoting gator homer Bianchi tells it all!!
The ridiculous part of all this to me is WHEN? Did "entitlement" become a god given right of fans? Guess I missed that edict.
Oh well continue with your silly moaning and groaning. Perhaps it truly does make you happy!!Far be it from me to discourage certain fans being perpetually miserable. The sadistic side of me kind of enjoys it!!
ASH said:
posted on November 6, 2006 8:32 PM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
Joe,
"WHEN? Did "entitlement" become a god given right of fans?" The minute I payed to watch them play. Without me and those like me then, all those who do make the decisions, who coach the game and play on that field are nothing more then students.
Joe said:
posted on November 7, 2006 9:54 AM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Ash,
I can absolutely guarantee that FSU will win or lose without a single dime from you. You have absolutely no influence and JMHO shouldn't. Why did you choose FSU as your team of choice? Just curious.
No one twisted your arm to buy that ticket. You made that choice.
How about trying this for a change if you choose still to be a fan of FSU... Cheer WIN LOSE OR DRAW and quit being such a whining baby! FSU before Bowden was on the verge of dropping football altogether. However, Bowden turned the program around and brought FSU to prominance that has seldom if ever been seen in CFB.
FSU has had a bit of a slide due to many factors but you can guarantee that Bowden the staff and players care more about winning then any fan ever will. They actually coach and play the game. Things will improve for those with the patience and character.
What you should be asking yourself is how can I as a fan make the situation better?
You do that with continued support win or lose. If you can't take losing than I suggest you pick some other form of entertainment. Losses are indeed disappointing but they always make the victories so much sweeter.
FSU has had a great run and they are a very young team. Young teams make mistakes. Why not sit back and enjoy the journey with its ups and downs. FSU has had a disappointing season but it really isn't the end of the world. Changes will be made and these kids will get better. FSU has been under some very unusual circumstances that weren't present during their dynasty run. Just a hunch but I do believe FSU will indeed get better.
It really is only a game. Now if this was the last season that CFB would ever be played I might even understand your point, but I am fairly certain that there will indeed be CFB next season and yes the games will be played with or without you. It does appear you have a lot of pent up misplaced anger over things you have no control over.
Not healthy IMHO.ky nole said:
posted on November 7, 2006 10:59 AM — 74.138.147.240 — link — abuse?
You're damn right ASH. We'll see about those boosters and their influence. You have to remember this is the first time Bobby has really had to feel the hear of losing and getting progressively worse. It is looking like the program is on the downslide.
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 8, 2006 12:51 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Ash makes a good point, Joe...
Without the "fans," whether they be boosters, alumni or simply admirers of the program (such as yourself), the program has no point...
Football for any institution is the money maker that fuels the rest of the athletic programs...
A quality D-1 football team can make the difference in facilities for ALL other sports at a school and directly affect the possibilities of recruiting and increase the chances that those programs will also excel...
Sorry, Joe, but those that pay for seats and support athletic program at ANY institution have the "entitlement" to gripe all day long about the ups and downs of any program their monies go to support...
Especially those that have a financial investment in the institution itself whether that be through donation, graduation or both...
No different than if an individual gave monies to support academic research and received poor results...
Joe said:
posted on November 9, 2006 11:50 AM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Which came first the chicken or the egg?
Actually, it is a little more simple in CFB. When Bowden took over the program FSU was on the verge of dropping football. Under his guidance he created a "STANDARD" never achieved in the history of CFB. Fans had absolutely nothing to do with that "Standard". It was done by coaching and more importantly by the players on the field.
Everyone loves a "winner" and it is very easy to adopt or become the fan of a team that is always winning. It is much harder to be a fan of a team when they lose. Unfortunately, many FSU fans have never had to endure losing seasons and this has resulted in these severe "entitlement" issues many FSU fans have today. They have absolutely nothing to do with the play on the field or the coaching, but somehow they feel they have the right to make decisions for who plays and who coaches? Go figure... If you are a fan and feel you are owed something you sound more like someone demanding to be on a "welfare list". How pitiful!!
A REAL fan supports the team WIN or LOSE.You think your mere pittance as a season ticket holder or memorabilia collecter is what made FSU financially successful? Dream on fella!!
You bought that ticket because of Bowden's success. You had nothing to do with it!THOSE ARE THE COLD HARD FACTS!!
You can make a choice to buy that ticket and if you do that is your choice and gives you absolutely no entitlement to anything more than viewing a football game. END OF STORY!!
If you any of you "severely entitled whiners" can show me anywhere on that ticket or FSU stuff that states purchase entitles you to make decisions on coaching or players please show me! You don't mind if I don't hold my breath waiting for that.
Patiently waiting!! LOLAsh said:
posted on November 10, 2006 6:43 AM — 69.21.116.14 — link — abuse?
Joe,
There is no doubt in any Noles fan as to what Bobby Bowden means to the program, he will never be replaced in our hearts, and minds.
And yes true fans support the team win or lose, but the point is not simply losing, its bad decision making, poor play calling, sorry recruiting, and inept secondary leadership. To watch four three and outs in a row against a mediocre defense like Virginia’s make you question the direction this team is taking, in offense.
But to say Bobby built this franchise without the support of the fans, that the money they poured into buying the tickets, merchandise, scholarships, and endowments, had nothing to do with the building of this program, is ludicrous. Where would the great stadium and player center be without that money? And the hard cold facts are that the more a team wins the more money, and top recruits come to a program. Any other program with any other coach would have taken drastic measures by now to stop the backward slid into mediocrity, and the obvious implications of revenue lose that it means.
By your logic if we bought a car on the market, because the man who designed it was the best there ever was and it kept breaking down, and was always in the shop because it’s a poorly designed car, we shouldn’t get rid it.
To say we bought the ticket because of Bobby’s success, is true, but it is also true that lack of success will prevent people from buying those tickets, merchandise, scholarships, and endowments.
There were fans before Bobby and there will be fans after Bobby, and their going to go through hard times with whomever replaces Coach Bowden. Joe the one thing you seem to miss in all this conversation is that were not only fans of the team but the Coach, we don’t want Bobby’s legacy to end in this fashion. All the fans know that we will have loosing seasons to come and are ready for it. But to watch the house that Bobby built crumble to ground, because of ineptness and stubbornness is not acceptable.
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 10, 2006 12:37 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
It's not about the merchandise or the ticket, Joe...
It's those people that go above and beyond and have a personal investment of time, money and emotion in the institution of Florida State University that have the "entitlement" to critique and express their displeasure with ANY situation that affects the school...
I agree with you on the level that "fans," such as yourself, do not have this "entitlement" simply because they shell the dough for season tickets and then by a shirt to wear to the game when they show up in T-Town for game day...
These people aren't the same as Alumni and big money to small money boosters that can put the squeeze on the Board of Directors that in turn put the squeeze on the Pres. who in turn begins to squeeze the A.D. and so on...
Be sure that a guy that shells out $100 grand a year to the university with his season tix cash won't give up his season ticket but might only give 10 grand next year or endow it to another part of the school academically instead of athletics because he feels it would be wasted money...
These are the people that are not only "entitled," but actually have the power to eventually force the change...
No offense, Joe, but I think your view on Bowden is somewhat skewed because you have no personal investment in FSU itself...
Ash said:
posted on November 12, 2006 8:15 AM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
On a wet cold bench, with my cloths soaked and my bones aching from the cold, I valiantly supported my team. A true fan I thought, take one for the team, be there for them in thick or thin. Rooting, rooting, myself and 65,000 soaked and aching other fans, the team on to victory. That was the idea. And in the cold dampness on Veterans Day, I watched the Seminoles do something; they haven’t done in thirty-five years (1971), get shut out in Doak Campbell Stadium. I watched an anemic offense barely get 77 total yards by the third quarter. I watched a battered and depleted defense play their hearts out in the first quarter only to be worn out by a superior offense by the third.
Sitting in third quarter I looked up on the big screen and saw something that finally broke my spirit, and why I left before the third quarter was done, Kentucky 38 – Vanderbilt 26. As I sat in that cold windy damp stadium I realized Kentucky was now bowl eligible and not Florida State. Don’t get me wrong I don’t mean that as a slight to Kentucky (I am true blue thru and thru), but for them to have a better record at this time in the season speaks volumes for the state of Florida State.
I watched our offensive line barley block anyone, never giving any Quarter Back a real chance to do something. When they would put together a good drive, it would be killed by a sack or penalty. I watched three and outs all night long, the defense was on the field more then the offense, add the fact that they are so depleted personnel wise and you can’t blame them for being worn out. I began to feel sorry for them as they kept trying.
And before you say the obvious, yes Wake Forest is a superior team to us and their defense played as much part in this debacle as every thing else. But it was obvious that this team was not ready to play, a Wake Forest who was ready to play, because they have something to play for.
How much more can we say and not be heard? What more has to be said? This loss is the last six years in a microcosm. I will say once again I don’t want Coach Bowden to go, but if he is not willing to make the changes in staff necessary to right this ship. If he continues to ignore the obvious and be so stubborn that he refuse to make the hard changes then maybe its time for him to retire.
Jeff Bowden be a man save your father from having to make that hard decision, STEP DOWN.
ky nole said:
posted on November 12, 2006 2:10 PM — 74.138.147.240 — link — abuse?
I'm sick. We are an absolute joke this year. Somebody needs to wake up down there and get this program together. Bobby can stay, fire everyone else tied to our sorry offensive scheme. Do we not have enough pride to prevent this from happening?
joe said:
posted on November 13, 2006 9:25 AM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
Allow Bowden to make the necessary changes.
Allow the players to improve.
If you think the players or the coaches don't realize any problems more than any fans you are delusional.
The only thing the "whiners" are doing is making the coaching and performance more difficult. Ever hear of the word "PROACTIVE"?
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 14, 2006 11:56 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Joe, let me get this straight...
You're saying the FANS are now as responsible for the way this version of FSU football is turning out?
You're kinda starting to sound like Bobby...
As you have repeatedly pointed out, none of those people in the bleachers are calling plays, coaching practices, devising game plans, etc...
Your support of Bowden is like a lemming...
Following the leader right off the cliff...
Joe said:
posted on November 14, 2006 10:57 PM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
I can guarantee that as soon as JB resigns they will be lining up singing Bobby's praises.
Spoiled fans contribute nothing to the success of a program. Never have and never will.
When they BOO it is inspirational to the opponent. Any opposing player will tell you that. When the home fans start BOOING it is the most motivating factor they could have.
True Fans support the coaches and players win or lose.
Of course as a gator fan I realize that such behavior is a foreign concept. Heck at UF didn't they BOO Leak? WOW !
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 15, 2006 11:03 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Well, Joe, certainly never heard any thing larger than a small smattering of boos during the UK game which were not directed at Leak but at the coaching staff...
Speaking of booing, isn't that what has been going on ALL season and most of last season at Ron Zook, err, Bobby Bowden Field...
Well, with the exception of the Wake Forest game,
since there's gotta be people in the bleachers to make enough noise to hear any booing...Yes, Joe, you are a true FAN of FSU football and Bobby Bowden...
As I said, earlier, a person with no personal interest or investment in the instituion as a whole can easily follow blindly behind one aspect of it...
Gatorpilot said:
posted on November 15, 2006 5:25 PM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
Wouldn't understand, Joe? Oh -- getting blanked 30-0 at home by Wake Forest? You're right. That must be a Nole thing. We Gators could never understand that.
Seriously, it's going to take many years to live down that humiliation.
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S.C.U.M. said:
posted on October 29, 2006 12:06 AM — 65.9.141.54 — link — abuse?I feel your pain, Kevin. I have shifted from rooting for my team to rooting against other peoples' teams. For me, if there's any comfort in this season, it's that FSU stinks. For you, it's probably at least a little comforting that Miami stinks worse. Man, what a crappy season!