November 14, 2006
Jeff Bowden resigns as Florida State OC
Santa came early for many Florida State football fans: 'Noles Offensive Coordinator Jeff Bowden has resigned. Under a deal reached with the university, Jeff Bowden will stay at FSU in another role outside the athletic department.
During a press conference this afternoon, Director of Athletics Dave Hart announced that Jeff Bowden has stepped down as FSU's offensive coordinator. According to Hart, he will continue to coach at least through the season finale versus Florida and then will be "reassigned" to a position outside the athletic department."Jeff initiated this conversation with me over the course of the last couple of days or so," Hart said. "There was mutual understanding and agreement that this decision was in the best interest of all concerned and that a public announcement should be expedited for all concerned.
"Jeff will be reassigned outside of the department of athletics and will finish his existing contract term which runs through August."
During the press conference (entire transcript available at Warchant.com), Jeff Bowden said that he believed that he was doing what was best for his family and his father.
... Twenty-five-plus years ago, he taught myself and a lot of players that have come through here to do what is right. And that's the reason I'm here, because I believe in my heart that, for Bobby Bowden, this is a decision I need to make and for myself and my family, maybe the most important, this is a decision I need to make for my family. I want to thank y'all. Florida State has the greatest fans in the country. I could not be happier with the future that this team has. I could not be happier that I had this opportunity, but it's just time for me to move on now. I just hope the next guy that comes in can close this deal for this program. Thank you.
According to FSU AD Dave Hart, Jeff Bowden has come to him several times this season, most recently after the Wake Forest game. Jeff Bowden gave Hart his resignation, but Bobby Bowden was not involved in the decision or negotiations related to Jeff staying on in any other capacity.
Bowden -- youngest son of head coach Bobby Bowden -- retains his present $141,000 salary until his contract expires next August. He then will receive annual payments of $107,500 until August 2012.
Head Coach Bobby Bowden released a short statement saying that he was disappointed about the decision and didn't want to discuss Jeff's choice.
"I am disappointed in Jeff's decision. I tried my best to encourage him to stay the course, but he was firm in his belief that it is time to move on. This is a big loss to me personally. I would hope that everyone understands that his decision is an emotional one for me and for that reason I'm not going to discuss it any further at this time."
Warchant.com publisher Gene Williams introduced a quick list of five potential candidates to replace Jeff Bowden at Florida State:
Chris Hatcher Current job: Head coach Valdosta State Valdosta State's all-time winningest football coach and oversees the offense. A disciple of Hal Mumme, Hatcher's system, called the Air Raid offense, has been arguably the most prolific in Division-II football over the past few years. Hatcher's six-year record at VSU is 68-10 (.870 winning percentage). He also reached the ultimate goal in 2004 when he won a national championship. FSU Ties: Has been around the program for years and involved in several coaching clinics and camps. Is friends with FSU Executive Head Coach and Linebackers Coach Kevin Steele, who's son plays at Valdosta State. Hatcher was in attendance for Saturday's FSU-Wake Forest game.Has been around the program for years and involved in several coaching clinics and camps.
Larry Fedora
Current job: Offensive Coordinator and QB coach at Oklahoma State
Resume: Has 16 seasons of coaching at the collegiate level. His 2004 Florida offense ranked first in the SEC in six categories: passing offense (271.1 ypg), total offense (426.9 ypg), third-down conversion percentage (47.8), touchdown passes (29), pass attempts (407) and pass completions (243). Prior to his stint at Florida, the 44-year old coach served as Middle Tennessee's offensive coordinator, producing one of the nation's most prolific offenses.
FSU Ties: Coached under FSU executive head coach and linebackers coach Kevin Steele at Baylor. Also, coached at Florida under Ron Zook from 2002-04.
Jimbo Fisher
Current job: Offensive Coordinator and QB coach at LSU
Resume: Generally considered one of college football's top offensive minds, while also serving as one of the school's top recruiters. Fisher has been a part of 59 victories, two SEC titles and the 2003 National Championship. The 41-year old coach engineered one of the nation's most potent offensive attacks at Cincinnati in 1999 (averaged 424.4 yards of total offense).
FSU Ties: Served as the quarterbacks coach at Auburn under Terry Bowden from 1993-98. He also served as the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at Samford for two years (1991-92) before joining Auburn with Terry Bowden. He also played quarterback for Terry Bowden for three seasons, two at Salem College (1985-86) and one at Samford (1987).
George Henshaw
Current job: Senior Offensive Assistant/Running Backs coach for the New Orleans Saints
Resume: Has been an assistant coach in the NFL working with offenses for the past 18 years and has been in coaching for 36 seasons. During that span, Henshaw has tutored nearly every position group on offense, served as an assistant head coach, and as an offensive coordinator. Prior to New Orleans, the 58-year old coach spent nine seasons (1997-2005) with the Tennessee Titans, the last six as assistant head coach/offense. In that position, Henshaw assisted in game-planning the team's offensive attack.
FSU Ties: Coached under Bowden at both West Virginia (1970-75) and Florida State (1976-82) working as both the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach. His son, Matt Henshaw, played for Bobby Bowden and the Seminoles from 2001-2005.
Brad Scott
Current job: Clemson assistant head coach, Offensive line coach
Resume: During Scott's tenure, Clemson has recorded six of its top-10 total offensive seasons in history. Served as offensive coordinator from 2000-03, and Clemson produced three of the top-six seasons in school history in total offense during that time. The 2003 team gained 5,467 yards, most in school history. Records were also established for passing yards, completions, and touchdown passes.
FSU Ties: Scott was on Bobby Bowden's staff at FSU for 11 years. The Seminoles went 10-0-1 in bowl games during that time. He spent his last four years as the offensive coordinator and OL coach. Those four years included FSU's 1993 National Championship season and a record-setting offense that featured Heisman Trophy winner Charlie Ward. Florida State posted a 44-6 (.880) record.
Brad Scott's return to FSU would be a very welcome occurance, and probably the most likely of these five. That said, give me Jimbo Fisher - of this five - if you can convince him to jump from the SEC. Fisher is not currently being talked about for a head coaching job, but it's likely that he could get some looks at head coach rather than an OC position.
And, as I'm sure several comments will point out - there's this guy with the Tennessee Titans that you might have heard of named Norm Chow. To get Chow (((long shot))) to take the FSU OC position, I think you have to promise him the top job on a definite timetable, as there are already head coaching jobs on the West Coast that would interest Chow.
I'd like to give big props to Warchant.com for having the inside line on the Bowden announcement this morning and to Every Day Should Be Saturday for being the first CFB blog to post it.
Comments:
Jon said:
posted on November 14, 2006 9:56 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
First off, I'd like to thank everyone who has stood with us making noise, bringing this issue to the forefront of the media over the past few years. They said our opinions were irrelevant... They said the boosters had no say... But it looks like we showed them! (this ones for you Joe..)
Second (and I hope I'm not alone on this issue), the mutiny is over. We fully support Bowden restoring this program with a new offensive coordinator. The majority of fans had issues with Jeff. The issues with Bobby only came when he created an ultimatum. I really hope Bobby continues with the program, because he does deserve to go out on top and he WILL GO OUT ON TOP.
And lastly, I'd like to see Jeff Bowden stays on the staff and go back to wide receiver coach. Maybe he can learn under this new offensive coordinator and maybe he will return one day and be successful.
It's a wonderful day to be a Seminole! Lets unite, stand together and show W. Michigan and Florida that this is our house.
You guys kick ass!!
Jon said:
posted on November 14, 2006 10:18 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
I submit my way of finding a new offensive coordinator.
1) Take the statistics.
2) Find the leaders in total offense.
3) Weight it accordingly... (how many years have they proven themselves)
4) Hire the best person who is willing to come to us...After we share a secret with them....which is...if they are successful...they will inherit the keys to the kingdom...(shortly)I think we need to focus on hiring the best person for the job.. not hiring an "old familiar name"
Joe said:
posted on November 14, 2006 10:39 PM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
Jon,
Don't flatter yourself.. You are a total embarrassment to FSU and continue to be. That you would attempt to force Bowden to fire his son shows truly you lack the very thing the Bobby Bowden has stood for. Jeff is gone. His decision. I have read no where that he said listening to the fans, and sign holders were the reason for his decision. He was the scapegoat that ignorant fans like you constantly ridiculed as the blame for everything. Guess you will be searching for a new one. I imagine the first loss and it will be right back after Bobby again. So ignorant and stupid.
I have never felt that Jeff was any more than an average OC at FSU. I am happy that Jeff made his decision to step down. As a son he showed his love for his father, something that the shrill classless booing and sign carrying types never will understand.
I imagine the next crusade will be who FSU's starting QB and RB should be. What a miserable time Chris Rix had. It is my hope that one day most "bandwagoners" will jump off. True fans support win or lose.
Personally, I blame the lack of quick changes happening because of fans like yourself.
When you push and disrespect a "legend" the changes occur much slower.
It was fans like you that pushed Bilichick out of Cleveland. New England certainly was happy with that decision.
I am just thankful that Jeff made the decision and not some stupid spoiled self-entitled fans that utter such classics as "WHY WOULD ANY RECRUIT WANT TO COME TO FSU?" Might as well get on the UF payroll.Kage said:
posted on November 14, 2006 11:38 PM — 71.229.26.75 — link — abuse?
I agree with u Jon that Jeff can stay @ Wide Recievers coach, but certainly not OC. The Buzz I've heard is about the Valdosta State coach that took Fabian Walker from FSU n won the D-II title. Chris Hatcher is the name of the Valdosta Sate coach, which somehow has some ties to Bobby
Joe said:
posted on November 15, 2006 5:37 AM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
Statistics are for losers
You hire an offensive mind that not only is a good game strategist, but knows how to develop character, loyalty,and teamwork. You hire a tireless recruiter that parents can trust that their son won't be treated like another piece of meat. You hire a coach that is familiar with the FSU offense and will utilize it to make it more efficient. Also you pick a coach that will utilize a players talent in such a way that he is put in a position to succeed.
The worst thing FSU could do is hire someone that is not congruent with what has made FSU the success it has been in the past. The hire or who knows? possibly hires should be those that understands the "BOWDEN" way. His record but more importantly his values are what has made FSU what it is today.Ash said:
posted on November 15, 2006 6:17 AM — 69.21.116.14 — link — abuse?
I agree with Jon, in that now we must present a united front in our support of Coach Bowden, as I have always said it is not his head I wanted. I want him to retire not in disgrace but in jubilation. We need to understand that the legacy he leaves (when he leaves) must endure for all time. I also agree that if we can convince Jeff to stay on as Wide Receiver Coach (a position that he filled admirably) would be best for the team and Florida State overall.
However one area where I do disagree with him is, the person that takes over this position needs also to be a very strong recruiter, an area where sometimes a name is what’s needed. But I also agree that only way we will get one of the top offensive minds is with the understanding that shortly they will take over the program. It looks very good that Chris Hatcher, may be our next Offensive Coordinator, however before the powers that be make a decision I have a name they may want to look at Paul Petrino, Louisville’s Offensive Coordinator, who may be convinced to jump ship if it was understood that he was the heir apparent, and is a name.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on November 15, 2006 8:33 AM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
Eh... Joe, don't be so hard on Jon. He's got the right idea.
I am firmly in favor of Bowden running the selection process and choosing his own OC for his own reason. The man is a living legend. No one -- including the athletic director, who wouldn't even have an athletic department worth ten cents without Bowden's life achievements -- should try to worm their way into Bowden's head and influence his decision.
I think FSU needs another Bowden-like guy at OC. Not to say Jeff was good, because he wasn't. But we need to see a guy who Bobby knows and trusts. Stats and numbers don't mean all that much. Trust is what matters. History is what matters. If Bowden trusts the new guy -- things will be good for the Noles. This might even be a golden opportunity to promote from within.
Chow would be an awful fit at FSU. I am sure he would be unhappy there, and Bowden would probably be unhappy with him. Can you imagine the "Southern Gentleman" and "King Bowden" himself having to share the stage with a brilliant offensive mind? Fur would fly. Better to let Bowden bask in the glow of the spotlight.
Joe said:
posted on November 15, 2006 8:33 AM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
This article states it all and expresses what truly FSU fans mindset should be at this time.
The "grass isn't always greener". Bowden is what he is but a certain group of silly, spoiled, and yes ignorant FSU fans played a most dangerous game of Russian Roulette with the winningest coach in CFB history. As you read the article think of why Bobby would refuse his son's requestto resign a year ago?
The answer lies in some fans insulting and foolish entitlement issues. You backed a legend into a corner and should have just shut up and JB would have left a lot sooner.
It is all about understanding the Bowden way. Personally I have found it the most appealing thing about FSU and its Football team.Link- required reading for FSU fans!
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/11/15/Sports/For_FSU__time_is_righ.shtml
JZNole said:
posted on November 15, 2006 10:56 AM — 12.177.80.3 — link — abuse?
Sounds like Joe is over-reacting a little. I agree with Jon here. Obviously Jeff Bowden is going to admit that he's resigning because the fans are "getting to him". From what I've heard he's actually tried to resign a few times over the last few years but Bobby wouldn't let him. Kudos to Jeff for going straight to Dave Hart this time.
As for a replacement, I think it might be better of if he had NO ties to FSU. Why would we want someone familiar with the FSU offense when we've been horrible the last 6 years?
I agree with Kevin, the only way we have a shot at Norm Chow is to promise him the keys when Bobby finally does retire (on his own terms).
Go 'Noles! This won't fix the problem overnight, but its one he!l of a start!!!!
mudpuppy said:
posted on November 15, 2006 11:22 AM — 72.154.158.239 — link — abuse?
The thing that is disappointing about Bobby & Jeff is that it became personal. FSU is a state university and football is big business. The FSU football program needs to be run like a business and if you don't get results then you need to get someone who can. I have been a Bobby fan from the beginning - but he has lost sight of the big picture here. In the long run FSU will be much better off, I hope Bobby can come to grips with that. If not, then it is time to retire and bask in the honors that he deserves for all those wonderful years.
Joe said:
posted on November 15, 2006 12:18 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Gator hippy,
That you make such a disparaging remark about Bowden is totally predictable from a gator fan.
Suggest you read Romano's article in today's St Pete Times twice.. Hopefully, you will grasp the concept of the "Bowden Way"..
You quite obviously don't have a clue, and more disturbingly from you dialogue don't ascribe to the same values Bowden does. JMO but that is sad.
I guess that is called "BEING A GATOR" LOL
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 15, 2006 2:30 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
I guess, Joe...though I don't necessarily find it disparaging...more truthful and reportive of the facts...
Joe, nobody needed a clue to see what was happening to FSU with Jeffy at the helm...
It was vividly apparent to everyone in the country, including Bowden IMHO, but he was too stubborn to initiate the change himself...
In a professional environment leaders must subscribe people to their list sets of values in order to be effective and can't allow nepotism, egotism, and arrogance affect their decision making in that environment...
At this point Bobby's personal values have overinfluenced Bobby's professional values and drug the FSU program to the dismal low it's at right now...
And that was the problem with promoting Jeff to OC and the lack of action as it only got worse...
Bad PROFESSIONAL decision making...I commend Bowden for being a devout Christian and striving to bring those that want it to the same personal level of spirituality that he enjoys...
But in a professional environment you have to make a seperation between personal feelings and sound decision making...
And, Joe?
Usually when one veers from the issue and resorts to personal attacks it is a true sign of slipping onto the losing end of the debate at hand...
Joe said:
posted on November 15, 2006 4:12 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Like I stated read the linked article:
I guess we just look at the game of college football differently. I believe the writer understands what Bowden means to the program.
Likewise a fan of the "UNIVERSITY OF HELL YES WE CHEAT" would never be expected to understand, and I apologise for trying to change any gator fan's mind on this.
FSU doesn't operate like UF and I for one am extremely thankful for that.
Lest anyone forget the NCAA's opinion of UF in 1985...
UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA PLACED ON NCAA PROBATION
"Unfortunately, during the five-year period in which the violations occurred," continued Mr. Toner, "the football coaching staff operated unimpeded by any effort being exerted by the university's director of athletics or any other administrative authority at the university to assure control of the football program. Due to this fact, as well as the serious nature of many of the violations in this case, the Committee on Infractions and the Council considered this to be among the most serious infractions cases ever processed by the NCAA.”
Again I apologize gator hippy.. It is a Nole Thing" and you wouldn't understand. (if I may borrow the usual rhetoric thrown out by gator fans when they are asked to explain questionable behavior.)
Hey don't shoot the messenger! Who is veering?I stand behind Bowden and what he has stood for you don't. Obviously, we disagree.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/11/15/Sports/For_FSU__time_is_righ.shtml
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 15, 2006 5:07 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
"I guess we just look at the game of college football differently."
Who is we, Joe?
As you normally ask of others as this argument has grown...
What have YOU done for FSU football?
I seem to remember you stating you never even attended the school...
And as usual and on cue, you want to bring up the probation issues again, which have nothing to do with this thread...
So it's a Nole thing to make poor managerial decisions at a high leadership level?
To allow incompetence to run wild on a mangerial staff for several years dragging the product down with it?
C'mon, Joe, you can't really belive that...
Gatorpilot said:
posted on November 15, 2006 5:40 PM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
Ah, the Bowden Way.
Does that include taking payoffs to do the right thing? I suppose it must.
Ho, ho, ho. These are good times. Joe's flustered and flummoxed, the Seminole "Nation" is in total disarray... man. I hope it lasts forever.
ASH said:
posted on November 15, 2006 5:59 PM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
The acceptance of mediocrity should never be tolerated in anything, to say someone is not a true fan because they are not willing to wait for a team to get better is a very unsound philosophy. It is my understanding (I may be wrong), that football is just a game, of which the main objective is to win. If it’s not then why keep score, and if your not winning then why play the game? In collage football the secondary objective is to win the National Championship, if you take care of the first the second will naturally follow.
If a team, known for winning suddenly slips into mediocrity, you naturally look for the reasons as to why this happing. A first its easy to go to the old blame standards, it’s a rebuilding year, it couldn’t last forever, the talent isn’t what it use to be, and recruits are going to other collages because they can start now. As the trend continues the blames get more sophisticated, if we just get a better quarterback, our wide receivers aren’t what they use to be, if we hadn’t missed that field goal, and their defense is better then we thought. The more the trend continues the less blames are thrown out and hallucinatory optimism sets in, wait tell next year. Tell finally after six years of mediocrity you face reality, and the only constant through out the mediocre( which means by the way adequate but not very good) years, Jeff Bowden.
Joe I’m not sure why you have such unwavering loyalty to Coach Bowden and his son, but it is admirable, however to say that those of us who find mediocrity unacceptable because we want better then average, because we don’t want Coach Bowden’s legacy destroyed by inadequacy, is truly unfair. I’m sure that there were many who stood by Nero while Rome burned, that later wish they hadn’t. But to say fan’s like Jon shouldn’t “flatter yourself.. You are a total embarrassment to FSU and continue to be. That you would attempt to force Bowden to fire his son shows truly you lack the very thing the Bobby Bowden has stood for. Jeff is gone. His decision. I have read no where that he said listening to the fans, and sign holders were the reason for his decision. He was the scapegoat that ignorant fans like you constantly ridiculed as the blame for everything. Guess you will be searching for a new one. I imagine the first loss and it will be right back after Bobby again. So ignorant and stupid.” shows that you are willing to accept mediocrity, but don’t ridicule us, don’t demean us, or cast dispersions against us, because we wanted more then average, because we wanted the national championship to be ours for the loosing, because we want Coach Bowden to go out into that good night with all glory and acclaim that is his right and distinction.
I may not be your type of fan Joe but I hope that me and those like me are always around to insure that winning and not mediocrity is the standard that FSU always plays for. And just once more for the record, we never wanted Coach Bowden to leave, we just didn’t want him to ignore us.
Joe said:
posted on November 15, 2006 6:09 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
We is You and myself.
Again, I suggest you read the article..
As to the question? I am nothing more than a fan of FSU. Whether I donate $10,000 or 10 Million that would never be an issue. Again, I understand that this is a foreign concept to you, whom I guess feels the Gators owe you something?It is just a game to me and though I want FSU to win them all if they don't it doesn't end my world.
The NCAA quote is most appropriate because you have never seen nor ever will see such a quote attributed to FSU under Bowden.
It is all about family, loyalty, and decency. Those are qualities I have always admired with Bobby or anyone for that matter.
Your entitled to your opinion. The fact that we differ I find most comforting. Kind of separates us as fans. I am indeed grateful for that difference.
ash said:
posted on November 15, 2006 6:21 PM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
The acceptance of mediocrity should never be tolerated in anything, to say someone is not a true fan because they are not willing to wait for a team to get better is a very unsound philosophy. It is my understanding (I may be wrong), that football is just a game, of which the main objective is to win. If it’s not then why keep score, and if your not winning then why play the game? In collage football the secondary objective is to win the National Championship, if you take care of the first the second will naturally follow.
If a team, known for winning suddenly slips into mediocrity, you naturally look for the reasons as to why this happing. A first its easy to go to the old blame standards, it’s a rebuilding year, it couldn’t last forever, the talent isn’t what it use to be, and recruits are going to other collages because they can start now. As the trend continues the blames get more sophisticated, if we just get a better quarterback, our wide receivers aren’t what they use to be, if we hadn’t missed that field goal, and their defense is better then we thought. The more the trend continues the less blames are thrown out and hallucinatory optimism sets in, wait tell next year. Tell finally after six years of mediocrity you face reality, and the only constant through out the mediocre( which means by the way adequate but not very good) years, Jeff Bowden.
Joe I’m not sure why you have such unwavering loyalty to Coach Bowden and his son, but it is admirable, however to say that those of us who find mediocrity unacceptable because we want better then average, because we don’t want Coach Bowden’s legacy destroyed by inadequacy, is truly unfair. I’m sure that there were many who stood by Nero while Rome burned, that later wish they hadn’t. But to say fan’s like Jon shouldn’t “flatter yourself.. You are a total embarrassment to FSU and continue to be. That you would attempt to force Bowden to fire his son shows truly you lack the very thing the Bobby Bowden has stood for. Jeff is gone. His decision. I have read no where that he said listening to the fans, and sign holders were the reason for his decision. He was the scapegoat that ignorant fans like you constantly ridiculed as the blame for everything. Guess you will be searching for a new one. I imagine the first loss and it will be right back after Bobby again. So ignorant and stupid.” shows that you are willing to accept mediocrity, but don’t ridicule us, don’t demean us, or cast dispersions against us, because we wanted more then average, because we wanted the national championship to be ours for the loosing, because we want Coach Bowden to go out into that good night with all glory and acclaim that is his right and distinction.
I may not be your type of fan Joe but I hope that me and those like me are always around to insure that winning and not mediocrity is the standard that FSU always plays for. And just once more for the record, we never wanted Coach Bowden to leave, we just didn’t want him to ignore us.
Jon said:
posted on November 15, 2006 7:06 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Tuesday: "I am disappointed in Jeff's decision," Bobby Bowden said. "I tried my best to encourage him to stay the course, but he was firm in his belief that it is time to move on."
Wednesday: "It's just amazing," Bobby Bowden said Wednesday. "When things go wrong the first thing they blame is the offensive coordinator. That's kind of the game we Americans play."
I have to be honest here... I'm a little worried about Bobby Bowden. These quotes seem bizarre to me... Almost like he has entrenched himself in football, Bush, Fox News, Jesus....
I hope he is not suffering from dementia. :-(
Jon said:
posted on November 15, 2006 7:23 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Joe - That article does nothing but stroke his ego and make excuses for something that is inexcusable.
From the article:
"Yet, you should also stop to examine it from a father's point of view. A man seeing his greatest accomplishment crushing his youngest son."To Bobby's credit, he valued the love of family over the cost of his reputation. And to Jeff's credit, he could no longer allow his father to take shots for him.
The author needs to remember: Bobby Bowden chose to bear this cross. When you hire a family member, you have to be prepared to judge them objectively. When Bowden was fighting to get his son hired, do you think he told the University that his love would come before the good of the team and doing his job? Unlikely.
Ash said:
posted on November 15, 2006 7:24 PM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
The acceptance of mediocrity should never be tolerated in anything, to say someone is not a true fan because they are not willing to wait for a team to get better is a very unsound philosophy. It is my understanding (I may be wrong), that football is just a game, of which the main objective is to win. If it’s not then why keep score, and if your not winning then why play the game? In collage football the secondary objective is to win the National Championship, if you take care of the first the second will naturally follow.
If a team, known for winning suddenly slips into mediocrity, you naturally look for the reasons as to why this happing. A first its easy to go to the old blame standards, it’s a rebuilding year, it couldn’t last forever, the talent isn’t what it use to be, and recruits are going to other collages because they can start now. As the trend continues the blames get more sophisticated, if we just get a better quarterback, our wide receivers aren’t what they use to be, if we hadn’t missed that field goal, and their defense is better then we thought. The more the trend continues the less blames are thrown out and hallucinatory optimism sets in, wait tell next year. Tell finally after six years of mediocrity you face reality, and the only constant through out the mediocre (which means by the way adequate but not very good) years, Jeff Bowden.
Joe I’m not sure why you have such unwavering loyalty to Coach Bowden and his son, but it is admirable, however to say that those of us who find mediocrity unacceptable because we want better then average, because we don’t want Coach Bowden’s legacy destroyed by inadequacy, is truly unfair. I’m sure that there were many who stood by Nero while Rome burned, that later wish they hadn’t. But to say fan’s like Jon shouldn’t “flatter yourself. You are a total embarrassment to FSU and continue to be. That you would attempt to force Bowden to fire his son shows truly you lack the very thing the Bobby Bowden has stood for. Jeff is gone. His decision. I have read nowhere that he said listening to the fans, and sign holders were the reason for his decision. He was the scapegoat that ignorant fans like you constantly ridiculed as the blame for everything. Guess you will be searching for a new one. I imagine the first loss and it will be right back after Bobby again. So ignorant and stupid.” shows that you are willing to accept mediocrity, but don’t ridicule us, don’t demean us, or cast dispersions against us, because we wanted more then average, because we wanted the national championship to be ours for the loosing, because we want Coach Bowden to go out into that good night with all glory and acclaim that is his right and distinction.
I may not be your type of fan Joe but I hope that me and those like me are always around to insure that winning and not mediocrity is the standard that FSU always plays for. And just once more for the record, we never wanted Coach Bowden to leave; we just didn’t want him to ignore us.
Ash said:
posted on November 16, 2006 8:33 AM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
The time for rhetoric is over Jeff is gone (we hope that he can still lead us to a bowl), and a new era is beginning. Who ever takes over the helm as Offensive Coordinator will need out support as united fans. We gave Jeff six years to bring it around, that’s longer then just bout any other offensive coordinator would ever have been given. We need to be at least as half as patient with the new guy.
One thing that I agree with Joe about is that the final decision of who is the new offensive coordinator should be Bobby’s and no one else’s. It’s his right, he’s more then earned it. I also agree that the new guy should stand for everything Bobby believes in, Chuck and Mark were his prodigies, and look how good they turned out. I think that everyone has it wrong it wasn’t the FSU style of offensive that was the problem, (NC State and Georgia seem to do well with it), it was the fact that we weren’t playing FSU football that was the problem.
But now as the smoke clears and the battle lines move back, we need to unite, for those young men still playing on field, for a great man that we all admire, and for the Garnet and Gold we love. This Saturday we need to fill that stadium and cheer, as loud and as passionately as we have argued. Let’s remind those young men why they choose FSU, lets show our love for Bobby Bowden and lets do it together so that others teams fans know that all is right in Tallahassee.
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 16, 2006 10:14 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Gee, Joe...
You left out the part in the Bowden Way about holding out for half a million bucks before one "does the right thing..."
Apparently, the Bowdens are about family, loyalty, decency AND CASH...
The comforting thing is that FSU will be paying for a mistake that should have never happened for the next 6 years...
$500,000 could be used for alot of things at the school I'm sure...
It seems that if the Bowdens are truly the type of people that you and your article claim, Jeff would donate that money back into the athletics program for scholarships, facility upgrades...
Or maybe a signing bonus for a new offensive coordinator...
I'm curious how much of this Bobby really "didn't" know about...
GatorMatt said:
posted on November 16, 2006 10:31 AM — 130.218.254.81 — link — abuse?
I don't know about you guys, but I have a feeling once Florida rolls into Tallatrashy and destroys FSU (so long as Florida remembers that you still have to play offense after halftime), the heat will be back on. Losing to your rival in your own stadium I think is worse than losing to an unranked team in your own stadium. And also, does Bowden even coach anymore? Or does he just stand on the sidelines and watch? I would love to see some changes, b/c I remember a 4 years ago when I was a freshman, and FSU was considered a challenge. Now all they are doing is hurting the Gators strength of schedule
Joe said:
posted on November 16, 2006 12:04 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Since Jeff got paid rather well, I Guess Jon's Noise making was a bit expensive.. Time will tell if it was money well spent. Truly though it was the best that could be done in a difficult situation.
Jon,Just an observation but don't you find it a bit odd that these gator fans totally agree with your opinion? Hmmm? I believe there is a message there... LOL
JMO but I have never known a gator fan to be anything but a deceitful liar when it came to FSU. Proof of my point? Gator Matts post... "Be careful whom you sleep with" JON.Of course FSU could have handled it the "gator way" and ran JB out on a rail, or had their most legendary coach quit on them, but like I say FSU does things just a bit differently.
I am confident Bobby's choices for staff changes will be good ones. While the jury is out on Mchale( Takes time to institute zone blocking and recruiting those types of lineman), I expect the PlayStation All-Americans will make him the next scapegoat. I think the Steele hire was an excellent choice as he is a great recruiter and LB coach.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on November 16, 2006 12:45 PM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
As weird as it sounds, FSU has slid so far that we Gators actually need them to pick it up and get it in gear somewhat. It's fun to see them have a bad year or three but they're starting to look more like a D-IAA or even D-II program rather than the former "national champions."
Sort of a yin and yang thing, I guess. The Gator Nation is the light, FSU is the darkness. We need them to be a reasonably powerful foe, with at least a chance of beating us occasionally, for the light to remain bright.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on November 16, 2006 12:59 PM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
Right on, gatorhippy. Joe's really grasping at straws now. :)
JZNole said:
posted on November 16, 2006 1:08 PM — 12.177.80.3 — link — abuse?
Considering how UF has been struggling with such powerhouses like Vandy & South Carolina, its pretty funny that you're talking trash right now. All it can do is come back and bite you (GatorMatt). You guys should take a clue from gatorhippy and learn about class.
With that said, I'm not doubting the fact that it COULD be a UF blowout, hell Wake Forest did it!
But that game will have no impact on any "heat". Jeff Bowden will still be the offensive coordinator, so Bobby will get a free pass until next year.
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 16, 2006 4:59 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
G-Matt:
Those guys got a point...
Gators haven't won squat yet and with only one victory in Tally in the last 20 years...
Well, let's just say nothing's guaranteed...
I mean, the way the Bowdens blackmailed FSU you would think that SEC referees might not be outta their league...
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 16, 2006 5:13 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Yikes, Joe...
You seem okay with the fact that the Bowdens have basically stolen money directly from the coffers of the athletic program and deserving student athletes that could use those funds...
Do you not find it disturbing that Jeffy essentially LIED to the entire world at his press conference claiming his resignation was because of his old man and the lessons and love he has gleened from this upstanding icon?
When in reality it was because they finally offered him enough cash to leave...
Wouldn't the impeccably high ethic and moral standards of the "Bowden Way" truly prevent a person from taking money they haven't earned from the availability of the student athletes it is there to provide for?
Or are the Bowdens "entitled" to this money because Bobby built the program and brought it to where it is today?
Sorry, but yet again the true Bowden colors are starting to glint out from underneath a worn and broken visage...
I hate to tell you this but it's not just Gator fans that agree with Jon...
It's pretty much everybody that follows college football...
As a matter of fact, YOU seem to be in the vast minority when it comes to the Bowdens...
Jon said:
posted on November 16, 2006 6:06 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
I understand the payoff.
Basically his contract was set to expire in August 2006 (which was a stupid move on part of the administration, considering we would never be able to bring in a new OC that late...if you ask me, college football contracts should renew in January or February).
We are basically honoring the contract and paying him the remainder of his salary, which we are probably legally obligated to do...He probably has a buyout clause in his contract and it is probably equivalent to his payoff amount. I mean, there is no way we could of afforded to wait until his contract expires in August. It just came out of booster money instead of University money, to make it more justifiable.
It pissed me off at first, but after considering 1) the contract issue, 2) he would of made roughly the same amount if he continued working until August and 3) we cant hire another coordinator until he is gone...It makes perfectly logical sense.
Jon said:
posted on November 16, 2006 6:14 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Yah.. I definitely think if we fired him we would of legally had to honor the rest of his contract anyways...or we would of had to pay a buyout clause.
We did him a favor and give him the opportunity to step down and resign on his own terms before it got ugly and dragged his father into it.
Smart move all-around, but not nearly as smart as not hiring him in the first place and defining a clear set of performance objectives.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on November 16, 2006 6:45 PM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
gatorhippy: All I can say is, I think we're going to be using Joe's "Bowden Way" phrase a LOT here on fanblogs. :)
GatorMatt said:
posted on November 16, 2006 8:18 PM — 65.213.191.153 — link — abuse?
Ash,
If I recall correctly, the last time Florida stepped into Nole Country, the field had just been named "Bobby Bowden field at Doak Campell Stadium," or some long name like that. Ron Zook, RON ZOOK managed to hand FSU a loss. And of course we all remember last years "close game." Now that the Gators have their head on their shoulders, I don't forsee a win for the Seminoles. I realize that talk is cheap, but a 5-5 record is nothing to write home about. Hopefully you guys will get into a bowl game at least. Maybe something called the Credit Union Bowl or something
Ash said:
posted on November 17, 2006 6:07 AM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
GatorMatt,
I'm just saying after Vandy & SC you can't say the Gator's are lock yet. You can talk about the past, but were not playing those games again. Were playing this years and the way Florida is playing (I hate to say) down to thier opponent, Florida State actualy has real chance unless your Coach can wake them up.
Dan C said:
posted on November 17, 2006 7:18 AM — 72.150.174.240 — link — abuse?
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Wrestler79 said:
posted on November 17, 2006 9:39 AM — 70.154.161.209 — link — abuse?
I blame the people at FSU for this, they should have never allowed Bobby to hire his own kids because sooner or later something like this was bound to happen. Nepitism can cause huge problems. I like Jimbo #1, Fedora #2 and Fisher #3.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on November 17, 2006 10:18 AM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
Jon, (Post #40)
Not to pick nits, because you seem pretty smart for a 'Nole fan, but I've read that same argument at warchant and it makes no sense. If his salary is $141,000/yr. and was up in August of this year, how does paying him an additional $537,000 "compensate" him in any way for any perceived loss? Additionally, he is going to be assigned outside of the athletic department until his contract is up, so he's not even going to lose any money.
I'm afraid that this $537,000 buyout to leave, which as far as I know is an unenviable first for a Division I-A offensive coordinator, is going to be a badge of shame for FSU's program for the indefinite future. Offensive coordinators are simply fired when they don't perform. Jeff's status as "Baby Bowden" preserved his job in such a way that boosters had to step in and pay him off to leave. Pretty disgusting, no matter how you shake it, but at least you got rid of him.
GatorMatt said:
posted on November 17, 2006 11:07 AM — 130.218.254.81 — link — abuse?
Ash:
I don't like discussing years past, but I felt it was relevant in this situation. Also, in talking about how the Gators have been playing lately, I'll be the first one to say the offense needs to get their heads out of their a$$es. But with the way the Seminoles have been playing is embarassing. Getting shutout at home? That's not supposed to happen to any of Florida's 3 powerhouse teams. I'll take a 9-1 record vs. a 5-5 record any day.
Jon said:
posted on November 17, 2006 11:10 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Gatorpilot -- To be honest with you, I'd really have to read his contract. It is pretty common for coaches to have buyout clauses in their contract. If he has a clause that says something to the effect of: FSU agrees to pay Jeffy 141k over 6 years for being a horrible offensive coordinator. Any early termination of this contract entitles Jeffy to a lump sum buyout payment of 500k.
The catch-22 in his contract is that it expires in August. This means, FSU cannot hire a new offensive coordinator until August, unless they terminate Bowden early. Which means Bowden gets his buyout clause.
So basically.. He resigns (to save face) because he knows he is getting fired.. The boosters end up paying his buyout clause (because using University funds for such would be heavily scrutinized). And FSU gets the power to hire an offensive coordinator earlier than August of next year.
But if I were to take off the rose colored goggles. This would be my real theory:
They paid what they had to get rid of Jeff and pacify Bobby Bowden. There is no way a buyout clause for an offensive coordinator would of been much more than the remainder of his base salary. Bowden was told that his son would have to go and the Boosters did it to pacify him....so he wouldn't throw the hissy fit and retire (like he assured us he would)... So now daddy doesn't have to worry about little Jeffy paying his bills..
Now consider this...
1) Bobby Bowden is responsible for generating a lot of booster money.
2) Bobby Bowden would of quit had they not thrown in this going away present for Jeff (loss of booster money)
3) Just a wild guess, but the moment Jeff Bowden resigned, boosters all over the country went to shangri la (in their minds) on a euphoric vacation ....leading to a large surge of booster money $.So there you have it. Financially speaking, Keeping bobby bowden coaching + getting rid of jeff ....has the potential to earn a lot more than 537k it cost us... And it may of been the best way to accomplish the mission of maximizing contributions..
*Shrug* Hell if I know.
GatorMatt said:
posted on November 17, 2006 11:54 AM — 130.218.254.81 — link — abuse?
I couldn't agree more. I've been trying to tell some people that, but I just don't think there will be a turnaround that quickly. I really am hoping that FSU gets a good O.C so the rivalry can go back to what it was. I really don't wanna see a crappy game next weekend
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 17, 2006 12:26 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Gatorpilot:
The even funnier thing about this "Bowden Way" that Joe keeps speaking of is the loyalty issue and how Bowden stated he is so loyal and committed to his personnel...
How he won't "sacrafice one guy" over the rest...
But yet, I seem to remember in 1984 the canning of Art Baker; who BB lured away from East Carolina; after one season that ended in a 7-3-2 record after his vaunted veer offense didn't take...
Again, I guess just another great example of the "Bowden Way"...
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 17, 2006 1:09 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Jon:
Here's a link to the Bowden contract...
www.tallahassee.com/assets/doc/CD501231115.DOC
It appears that this is a totally different agreement outside his current contract...
To me the more disturbing incident in this is the fact that Jeff would take this money for a job he:
A) Quit...
B) Performed horribly at...Just doesn't seem right...
I know anytime I come to Doak in the next six years, I will be boycotting the concession so I know my money has not contributed to this theivery and extortion of the university by the Bowdens...
I would suggest all Nole fans this situation has upset to do the same...
Joe said:
posted on November 17, 2006 2:23 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
With gator fans suggesting FSU fans should be angry with the payout is all I need to know that FSU did the right thing.
How any FSU fan could listen to any gator fan about what FSU fans should do is beyond my comprehension. Lest we forget the "University if "HELL YES WE CHEAT" has a sordid and sullied history unmatched in the state of Florida and ranks right up near the top in the nation in terms of corruption.
Glance at the 84' statement above by the NCAA. WOW!
Think the "footlocker" was grevious??? What about "TANK BLACK".???????? UF officials claimed they didn't know for almost 3 years despite MO COLLINS in the Fiesta bowl??? Double WOW!!
_____________________________________
While the payout might seem steep I would suggest it is a paltry sum and relieved FSU of a potential markteting disaster. I wonder how much $$$'s Bowden has generated for FSU both directly and indirectly.
Looked in that light it was a mere pittance and not even worth mentioning accept by silly gators with an agenda.
JB showed himself to be a good capitalist, and isn't that the American Way?What did SOS get in severance from the Redskins?
hmmmm?
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 17, 2006 4:40 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Ash:
No doubt, it was worth the money to get rid of what had just turned into a totally putrid attempt at something vaguley resembling an offensive scheme...
It's just a shame that because of the nepotism factor that it drug on so long and resulted in a state institution having to pay some clown for work not done when his work wasn't even that good...
As I posted earlier, obviously Art Baker wasn't afforded the same tolerance as Jeff was...
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 17, 2006 5:06 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Joe, I suggest you take a look around the net and the media...
There are alot of boosters and alumni that are very upset with this extortion of the school...
Wait lemme guess though...
"UF Probation, Tank Black, Blah, blah, blah..."
Keep squashin your grapes, Joe...
This situation with Jeff has been a fiasco from beginning to end...
Jon said:
posted on November 17, 2006 6:09 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
gatorhippy - Well after reading that contract... it's pretty clear that the payoff was a bribe to get him out quietly...instead of having fire him and getting the elder Bowden pissy... and having this turn into a pissing content on national tv, one in which ESPN would back Bowden 'the most winiest coach' and scrutinize the University...it would get ugly, with half the FSU fans behind Bowden and the other half against.... and then we still have his name on the field and his picture on the stained window at the stadium...
It is a very complex situation... I would never be able to judge it, without knowing all of the details. I have to hope that the boosters are acting in the best interest of the University...Whether we understand their actions, or not...
Ash said:
posted on November 18, 2006 4:21 AM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
Well it’s seems that one, two, or more Boosters put up the $537,500. The agreement says it came from non-donor revenue, which means they didn’t pull it from the scholarship funds. Again I’m sorry I don’t have an issue here, if it means we get what we want, Jeff gone, Bobby happy, and a brighter future, then as a Booster, I ask where can I contribute? Yes it’s an ugly end to an ugly situation, but lets not dwell on the now past, and instead look to the now future. GO NOLES.
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 18, 2006 10:02 AM — 72.40.35.247 — link — abuse?
Ash:
Actually the funds will be coming from sources such as concession sales...
I will agree though that at least the Noles got rid of him...
It's just too bad that it had to happen like it did...
My real issue isn't with that, it's about putting to bed this facade of "Bowden Way" that Joe holds so dearly on to...
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 18, 2006 10:04 AM — 72.40.35.247 — link — abuse?
Jon:
Yeah, my favorite section is the one where the boosters wrote in Jeff couldn't sue the Boosters, Inc or the school...
I also have to think that there was definitely a Bobby hand in this despite his denial of knowledge...
But that could just be the Gator in me...
LOL
Ash said:
posted on November 18, 2006 7:16 PM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
Gatorhippy,
The story will get out soon enough CokeCola paid the money, outright. The money was to go to the University, however it went to Jeff instead. It was a deal the AD and Booster's president worked out with them, to keep Bobby on.
Joe said:
posted on November 19, 2006 1:19 PM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
There are two sides of the fence...
The one that a couple of mouthy gators are on supported by some very naive Nole fans
or
the side that supports Bobby Bowden and what he has meant to FSU.
Being an FSU fan which side do I want to be on??
Wow! that is a tough one!! Later boys!!gatorhippy said:
posted on November 20, 2006 10:42 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Joe:
Once again spoken like a true FAN that enjoys FSU football and Bowden rather than a booster/student/alum with personal interest and ties to the institution as a whole...
You speak as though FSU would not even exist if not for Bowden...
You can talk about what Bowden has meant to FSU, but FSU gave the man a job and provided him with the facilities to attract and develop his recruits and the capital to higher top notch (or family members)coaches...
Would Bowden been able to acheive this at, say West Virginia?
Doubtful...
Sorry, but Bowden isn't bigger than the very place that gave him his stage...
To think so echoes the very arrogance that Bowden has displayed as of late...
Joe said:
posted on November 21, 2006 5:20 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
Ash,
I believe enough disclosure has been given.
What more do you need? Where does this entitlement come from??? You really must hate Bowden and FSU. How absolutely conflicted!!
Oh and lest you get all warm and fuzzy with comments by such truthful?? gator fans that are 100% in agreement with you.
Are you aware of the following??:
Gerald Owens?Hassan Jones?
the TGRRT?
Careful with trusting such fans helpful?? suggestions... JMHO
Jon said:
posted on November 22, 2006 4:48 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Joe - we know how relevant your opinion is... You have spent the last 2-years telling us how great Jeff Bowden was....and how he would never lose his job.
You have been the equivalent of a parrot sitting on these message boards.... roaaaaaaa "entitlement" ... roaaaa "fair-weather"..... roaaaa "bowden way"
I got news for you... I wish we had fans who cared as much as gator fans do about their football team. I wish FSU fans were that devoted... I wish we had fans that realized that the future cannot be sacrificed because of past allegiance/tradition. I wish we would of fired Jeff Bowden just as fast as they fired Ron Zook... God knows we wouldn't be sitting with a .500 season right now....
And guess what Joe? My wish will come true...
The following generations of fans (who are internet savvy) are going to have instant access to tons of information... And we are not going to tolerate the destruction of things we love... So yes, I am entitled biotch..but...you better learn to love it, because your time (worshiping the past) is quickly coming to the end.
Ash said:
posted on November 22, 2006 5:57 AM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
Joe,
You are delusional, having full disclosure has nothing to do with or about gator fans. You act like that’s what’s been driving this train. Wake up, the real world is calling. Jeff Bowden sucked as an offensive coordinator, and was highly compensated for sucking. There is no way to hide these truths. In the six years he was OC the offensive steadily declined, in every major category. But in your delusional world if we just waited two or three more years he would have brought it around. AND JUST SO WE UNDERSTAND ONE ANOTHER, ONCE AND FOR ALL, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BOBBY BOWDEN, so get off that horse it don’t want to ride no more. If you did as bad job in your work as Jeff did you wouldn’t have lasted a year, a month, a week and you sure as hell wouldn’t have been highly compensated for doing a BAD job.
The $537,500, Jeff is to receive was intended for the general scholarship fund , so now many deserving none athletic kids may not receive a scholarship this year, (some may not even be able to go to FSU now) while Jeff sits for the next five and a half years as an “independent contractor” for the University. JOE WAKE UP KIDS WILL SUFFER BECAUSE A MAN WHO WAS BAD AT HIS JOB WILL GET PAID UNDER THE TABLE, JUST SO HIS FATHER WONT LEAVE.
I don’t listen to Gator fans, very often, there opinion means nothing to me when it comes to Florida State Football. But if I have to choose between a Gator fan who is making sense or a delusional FSU fan who thinks its all a great conspiracy to get rid of Bobby Bowden, I’ll take the Gator fan, sorry.
Cane_Nation said:
posted on November 22, 2006 10:53 AM — 205.166.218.39 — link — abuse?
I hate to break it to all of you, but the problem at FSU are much bigger than Jeff, although that is a good place to start. How about the strength and conditioning coach? Mickey Andrews gets really conservative on defense against the likes of NC State and Maryland, but will blitz the hell out of Miami. I know we suck worse than you right now, but if you'll blitz a team with equal athletes then why not one with lesser atheletes. These two schools still have better atheletes than 95% of their opponents, the problem is that we are not developing the skill players at all. The quarterbacks, running backs, and recievers are not improving with age. The gap in talent isn't what it used to be. While a Maryland still don't match up athelete for athelete with either of us, the gap has shrunk enough that better coaching will more than make up the gap. And that is what we're seeing right now. So be happy that Jeff is gone but don't think the work is over quite yet.
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 22, 2006 1:24 PM — 72.40.35.247 — link — abuse?
Ash & Jon:
Joe's Bobby "fetish" is beyond reproach...
I'm glad for the Noles that you all were FINALLY able to get Jeff out of there...
Unfortunately at the expense of a large chunk of athletics money of which he did not deserve...
I've been looking for info on who some of the other likely coaches that will be leaving as well..
Any info on that?
I would assume some of the offensive position coaches would be on the way out as well...
Joe said:
posted on November 22, 2006 2:46 PM — 65.35.217.174 — link — abuse?
For the record:
I have never been a advocate or vocal critic of JB. Never have stated whether he would leave or stay. I just knew it wouldn't be any fans decision. Seems I was exactly right!! LOLI never feel that there is a single scapegoat for anything in football.
I just feel as a fan there is a right and wrong way to do things. Whining and crying about things you have no control over seems delusional to me.JMO
I know this is hard for some of you to grasp but it is only a GAME!! Unlike Jon and Ash I don't wrap my self- worth on whether FSU wins or loses.
If that is being delusional so be it. I call it reality.
Sure I am unhappy when FSU loses, and happy when they win but thats where it ends.Not that it matters and not that I give JB credit but FSU despite its won/loss record Every major category did not decline.
FSU led the ACC in Passing last season and is close this season. They had their 4th best rushing totals in history in JB first year calling plays. Just a few facts.
JMHO but how the quality of the players and how they execute and avoid mistakes has more to do with winning than anything else in CFB. Think if FSU had Phillip Rivers rather than Chris Rix the results would have been different? Who recruited Rix? Wasn't it Mark Richt?
If I am a booster and I decide to give JB a going away present$$ I am not allowed to? Ash
Wow! Are you some kind of communist or welfare junkie?
If I was such a booster, I definately wouldn't endow a scholarship to either of you two jerks.
You are an embarrassment to FSU with your severe entitlement issues.Bowden isn't perfect but you two and your value system can't hold a candle to what he has stood for at FSU.
I admire very few, but I admire Bobby and his values, and what he means to FSU. I can guarantee he wouldn't display the classlessness and lack of decency you two numbskulls have shown in these threads.
As to gator hippy's remark about "Fetish" lets leave his sexual attitudes out of this discussion, I am not interested and have no desire to participate in his own personal "Crying Game". That I am afraid is his own problem.Perhaps he needs to run to some message board that will better cater to his apparent deviant life style of choice. lol
Oh and feigning interest in FSU coaches leaving or staying is a nice touch.... Try being less transparent the next time. Must be a member of the old TGRRT. Now that is a Tally organization that all gator fans must be proud???
Luke said:
posted on November 22, 2006 8:56 PM — 67.35.110.26 — link — abuse?
I know Bobby was once a great coach. I just want to know why everyone blames jeff for the teams problems, I mean yes he is incompetent. But Bobby is the one that hired him so it's really his fault in hiring an incompetent offensive coordinator. Why do you think the good assistant coaches leave for other teams? Because Bobby promotes his incompetent son instead of more deserving and experienced assisstant coaches. From an outsider's view, FSU's football program is corrupt and it will not become efficient and good again until the corruption is stopped (starting with Bobby.)
Hell, he's an old guy and he wants to help out his friends and his sons, at least he knows how the world works. It's too bad FSU football has to pay the price.
Ash said:
posted on November 24, 2006 12:55 PM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
Joe,
There’s an old saying that goes, “never try and teach a pig to sing, it waist your time and annoys the pig.” That’s how I feel when any of us discuss this issue with you, so I’m going to stop wasting my time with you and walk away from this conversation.
And just for the record I am an FSU booster and season ticket holder, who’s money by the way went to the general scholarship program and not to one man’s pocket, so hopefully some kid will be able to do what I haven’t so far in life, and attend FSU next year thanks to me. One last point I didn’t become a booster because of one man, or one team, but for the University I have come to love and support. So I support all FSU teams, no matter how this plays out, no matter who is what coach next year I will, like those players on the court, field or diamond am a Seminole.
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 24, 2006 6:15 PM — 70.121.108.178 — link — abuse?
Bwahahahahahaha....
Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe...
Where should I start...
First:
You thought I was referring to myself with the Fetish comment and that it was in a sexual conotation...TOOOOOO FUNNNNY!!!!!
Secondly:
"Fetish" in general refers to any unquestioning loyalty and devotion of objects or figures...So as you can see this would and is a perfect description of your feelings regarding Bobby Bowden...
Third:
That you would put Bowden and sexual feelings together perhaps tells us all (albeit somewhat disturbingly) perhaps where YOUR feelings for the Bowdens actually lie...Your unflittering respect and devotion reminds me of the song "Opiate" by TOOL...
Look up the lyrics...I think you'll recognize some of your feelings and be able to relate...
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 24, 2006 6:24 PM — 70.121.108.178 — link — abuse?
Ash & Jon:
Joe's irrational suspiscion and fears aside...
Have either of you heard any rumor or whispers of a possible canidate list for the OC position?
Also, I happened across this in the Orlando Sentinel this morning...
"Bowden wants son to coach in bowl..."
What do you fellas think of this?
Seems like Bobby is continuing to stoke the flames of the booster fire...
Ash said:
posted on November 24, 2006 7:05 PM — 71.52.20.71 — link — abuse?
Kevin gave the canidates at the begining of this stream. Chris Hatcher is still #1 on everyones list, I don't think thats going to change. It also sounds like he will be bringing most of his own staff with him. Jeff can't coach at the Bowl Game the agreement goes into affect November 26, 2006. I think thats just a rumor, however if they can't get anyone by the Bowl then they may let him stay through the Bowl Game.
gatorhippy said:
posted on November 24, 2006 7:29 PM — 70.121.108.178 — link — abuse?
Ash:
Yeah, I saw that but was wondering if there was any newer info on that...
I would think with the UM job opening up, Jimbo and Fedora might be a stretch...
Hatcher seems like a natural fit with the current staff and the obvious aquaintances he has there already...
I just wonder how well B. Bowden accepts the guy replacing Jeff, especially if things don't pick up next year with the change...
Good luck Saturday, freaking Noles scare me to death going into this one...
Jon said:
posted on November 24, 2006 9:59 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
gatorhippy - To be honest with you.. after finding out all the details behind Jeff Bowden leaving..Knowing his dad spent his entire career claiming the game was "about more than money".. Knowing that he (Bobby Bowden) played an ultimatum card causing us to have to keep his son longer.. Knowing that Bobby Bowden will not keep his word and step down, even though the University did force his hand (regardless of the semantics)..
To be honest with you, I am having a hard time staying interested in FSU news. I'm going to need an off-season to clear my head and purge myself with the negative feelings I harbor right now...
So.. I don't care who they put as offensive coordinator, as long as they are willing to learn. I think they could of placed me as offensive coordinator (having no coaching experience) and I would of been more successful than Jeff Bowden. As long as we hire someone where ego is not an issue, we should be fine... Someone who watches Belichick, Spurrier, Parcells, Petrino and Shanahan.. and uses these amazing existing offenses as a building block for their own sculpture. The game has grew more complex and if Bobby Bowden is right about the "parity" he always uses as an excuse, we are going to need an offensive coordinator who is one hell of a coach. Someone who can handle the dynamics of shifting game-plans in the middle of the game, instead of "staying the course" (during a game) and adjusting during the week (when you have already lost).
Renegae06 said:
posted on November 26, 2006 4:20 PM — 216.220.208.238 — link — abuse?
Cane_Nation...
You could'nt be more right when referring to Mickey Andrews. I've been saying the same thing to my self that past few years. Though he is a great defensive cordinator and one of the greatest defensive minds in college football his scheming and conservativeness is sometimes a cause for concern. I see us play Miami every year and total up several sacks because he blitz's the hell out of you guys. But when we play the teams you mentioned as well as Clemson this year he won't blitz. Why is that? I Don't mind because we always have one of the better defenses in the kountry and our defense keeps us from goin 4-8 instead of 8-4 most of the time. Statisticly we are ranked among the top 15 or so every year. But like you said that as well as the strength and conditioning must improve. And most importantly the offensive lines caoch and QB coach (Darryl Dickey). But that is a valid point you made, one that I noticed my self.Jon said:
posted on November 26, 2006 10:47 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
His defense reminds me of the Denver broncos zone coverage....It fails badly vs. decent passing teams, allowing far too many 3rd and longs...
However.. he mans up a lot more when his team is not destroyed by injuries...and the zone defense is by far the best way to minimize the bleeding..so IMHO, he is calling exactly what he should be calling...
And with that said.. we have got to start using more scholarships on the secondary.. Not calling anyone out *cough Carter*, but our secondary is weak on one side... just like it has been for what seems like forever (Sanders days)
Joe said:
posted on November 27, 2006 3:23 PM — 65.32.106.22 — link — abuse?
How refreshing to find Jon is no longer interested in FSU news. That is the best Christmas present yet!! Glad to see you are finally seeing the light. Jon....
As to Ash and his professed self-importance as a FSU booster????......
I remain far more impressed with Bowden as far as what he has meant to FSU.
Sorry, Ash but giving some inflated SAT and GPA student today a free scholly doesn't impress me that much. Good intentions aside, I have found little to be impressed by when it comes to higher education in the state of Florida. Perhaps you can enlighten me?
--------------------------------------------
I do hear they have excellent degrees in "NEGATIVOLOGY"(LOL), and obviously Jon and Ash are working on their PHds... Good luck! and if it makes you happy? Who am I to turn you away??
As for me I just Cheer win or lose. I love it when FSU wins and certainly am not happy when they lose, but it still is only a game to me. That it is more than that to some is a bit troubling.See: USC fan killing the Clemson fan!! CHILLING!!
I realize that Jon and Ash claim they know all
the answers and somehow think they can initiate change by their whining and crying???
Just me but I found out a long time ago of what I can and can't change. Bowden and FSU will make the decisions regardless of fans wishes.
I take great comfort knowing that!!Joe said:
posted on November 28, 2006 2:17 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
Well, gator hippy it has been my experience when someone has given about 25 years of their life to a program, that giving a little financial reward is the right thing to do.
Now if those boosters involved were reluctant to do such a thing I could understand some silly gator fan's assertion.Clearly, that wasn't the case.
Of course being a gator fan.. You wouldn't understand!!I must admit though I am rather puzzled why a gator fan would care so much about this???
Care to explain?
Just a theory, but could it be you are "tooling" Ash and Jon, and they are just too naive to realize it?Unlike them, I learned many years ago... NEVER TRUST A GATOR FAN!!
Jon said:
posted on November 28, 2006 11:26 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Joe - you have never contributed anything relevant to this board. Not one person on here gives a damn about anything you have to say. I respect the opinion of every single person on here, with you being the only exception....and I guarantee you I am not the only one. You have managed to make a complete jackass out of yourself in every thread you have graced. The only person who believes the bullshit you type = yourself.
Do us all a favor and don't respond to this.
Go troll somewhere else.
Joe said:
posted on November 29, 2006 11:40 AM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
And your contribution is the following: You grouse continually about something you have absolutely no control over, Continually berate and ridicule the one person that actually defines your existance on this message board for without his accomplishments you wouldn't even be here. You have totally shamed all that Bowden has meant to FSU with your constant whining and measurement of your own self-worth on the fortunes of a football team. Grow up son! It is only a game.
Your problem is Jon is that you know deep inside that I am right in my opinions about FSU and Bowden and this makes you look extremely foolish and shallow. There is right and wrong and FSU fans like you have done more harm to FSU than Bowden if FSU lost all their games for the next 10 years.The nation is looking at FSU fans like you with total revulsion. They understand what Bowden is to CFB and what he has stood for. Perhaps you should heed their message.
No one person gives a damn what I have to say????
Hmmm? Interesting that you respond? Guess that shows the credibility of your statement.LOL Not that anyone should be surprised.gatorhippy said:
posted on November 29, 2006 3:53 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Well,Joe...
It appears the grousing, ridiculing, berating, whining and measurement paid off for Jon, Ash and the majority of Seminole fans that held a similiar opinion...
However, on the other hand I do like to hear what you have to say on the subject of FSU football as you do certainly have an unfailing lemming type following of the "Bowden Way"...
Gotta disagree with you on the fact that FSU wouldn't have enjoyed success if not for Bowden...
Given probation laden programs such as UF and UM and the abundance of talent in the Sunshine State itself, FSU would have still gotten their turn...
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on November 29, 2006 4:13 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
gatorhippy:
RE post#98: Interesting thought - and I did not even have to say it. But I agree, in a "recruiting hotbed", you have all kinds of options. We tried a couple guys out at USC for awhile (Ted Tollner and Larry Smith) and they were okay. But, not exactly up to "normal tradition". Once Pete Carroll got here, with the recruiting base, it didn't take long at all. It could happen like that anywhere where there is talent. Look what Urban Meyer has done in two years already.
Tommie T
Ash said:
posted on November 29, 2006 5:36 PM — 69.21.116.14 — link — abuse?
I can’t believe that we are still going down this road. Joe, Jeff is gone; nothing is going to change that fact. Someone new will be in his place next year, and Seminole Football will continue. Soon (probably very soon) Bobby Bowden will be gone and someone will be in his place, and Seminole Football will continue. I don’t think the nation is looking at FSU fans with revulsion. I mean Miami fans; Alabama fans, NC State fans seem to be the topic of conversation, we only got a bad offensive coordinator fired, they got their Head Coaches fired, but we are the revolting ones.
Remember this Joe whoever takes over for Jeff and later for Bobby we’ll be watching, were not going anywhere and as long as fans like me and Jon are around Seminole Football will not just continue but be a force to contend with. Until Next Year Joe.
joe said:
posted on November 30, 2006 6:59 PM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
JB is gone. I have no problem with that. I have often stated I was neither and advocate or critic of JB. It was an incredibly difficult situation to get done and I am glad it went as smoothly as it did.
I also have no problem with the Seminole boosters sweetening the pot on his departure. It is called handling a situation with class rather than the way apparently you and Jon wanted. JB gave his heart and soul to FSU, and you want to kick him to the curb??? Sickening!!It is incredibly easy to be "a Negatologist Fan" today. After all anything less than perfection gives you something to cry and whine about since perfection is always an impossibility.
Never have like cowardly crybaby fans, and doubt I will ever change that thought.
IMHO
However, it takes real courage and character to be patient and look at the whole picture without being so shrill, irrational, and emotional with little reasoning behind it.
Carrying signs berating coaches and players is totally classless as is "Booing" the team. Do you honestly believe that motivates the team?
An opposing player will tell you the greatest motivater is hearing the fans boo their own team.
Stating stupid things:
like Bowden is killing the program. Ridiculous!
How about things like:
"The second string guy should transfer.""why would any recruit want to come to FSU"
The coaches all suck.
Fire somebody..
All are stupid,ignorant,insulting, and totally counterproductive to a team being successful.
Support and encouragement are always the best way to motivate."The ultimate measure of class is how the fans treat the players and coaches"
You are correct in looking at Alabama and Miami.What great coach in his right mind would want to take a job at such a fickle, schizophrenic group of fans boosters and Administration?
You are also quite correct in that Bowden won't be around too much longer. I just hope the numbers of fans of you and Jon's ilk are in a minority when that occurs because with a fan base of that type will be the quickest way to being a habitually losing and unsucessful program.
One last comment and I have stated before. If gator or cane fans are agreeing with you, you are on the wrong side of the fence. You will notice "the love"!! all gator and cane fans have for me!! LOL
If that isn't convincing enough you never will get it!!Oh and minor correction JB decided to leave he wasn't fired. He did the right thing. Don't flatter yourself!
Oh and gator hippy why do you think UF started cheating in the early 80's?? NEEEEEEEEEEEEEXT!!Joe said:
posted on November 30, 2006 11:51 PM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
Here is a partial ditty from the Seminole Boosters:
Think it is rather remarkable how similar my viewpoints mesh with the authors.Perception is not a small thing.
Selective perception determines much of our memory, as well as molding our expectations. The outcome of the Florida game helped determine how this 2006 season is remembered. Had we beaten Florida, we would have beaten the ‘Canes and Gators in the same season, won the state championship, gone to a bowl, overcome adversity and injuries, and set the stage for a prosperous 2007.
But even though we lost only by one score, this may be remembered as the season of the Wake Forest shutout, the desperate, undermanned defense, the under performing offense and controversy on the coaching staff.
I assembled a trunk load of material from the 1996 college football season and I’m thinking of writing a book titled, The Greatest Season That Never Was. What do you remember about 1996? Probably not a great deal. Most Seminoles remember it as the year that our humiliating loss to Florida in the Sugar Bowl handed Steve Spurrier the national championship.
The perception is that it was a bad year for us. The truth is that it was the Seminoles, not the Gators, who ended the season undefeated. Our 24-21 victory over them in Tallahassee was one of the greatest games ever played by a Seminole team.
It was only through the whims of fate and a back-room deal that a forced re-match in the national title game took place that year. And, even after taking the 52-20 pounding in New Orleans, FSU still finished 3rd to Florida’s 1st in the AP final poll. We tend to recall only that Florida’s best team beat us, and not that our team was great as well.
Sportswriters and television commentators rightly continue to shower glory on Bobby Bowden’s 1987-2000 Dynasty, and intone the mantra that such a feat will likely never be seen again. That is the perception, and no doubt that is true.
But the perception of those Dynasty years doesn’t quite mesh with reality. Yes, the astonishing fourteen year run was the best ever seen in a college program, but the Dynasty wasn’t a fabulous, unbroken string of victories any more than the last six seasons has been a bleak landscape of failure.
Looking at the last six less-than-Dynasty years, you and I shake our heads and say there’s no excuse for a even a weak Florida State team to fall 0-30 to Wake Forest. True, but neither was there any excuse for a Florida State team to be down 3-31 to Florida on our own home field. Yet there we were in 1994, defending National Champions no less, watching the Gator players strut and dance along the yard markers as the third quarter changed to the fourth quarter.
In 1994, we charged back in that fourth quarter and “beat” the Gators 31-31. The Seminoles settled the issue in a Sugar Bowl with a re-match won. Dr Jay Rayburn’s students got top grades for convincing the Sugar Bowl to actually change the scoreboard readout and promote the game as the “Fifth Quarter in the French Quarter.”
There was no excuse for the pre-season #1 ranked Seminoles to fall 0-31 in the season opener, but that’s what happened in 1988. Instead of collapsing, the team re-grouped under Bobby Bowden’s leadership and ran the table to whip Auburn in the Sugar Bowl and finish #3 in the country.
Another Dynasty year of great promise began with two appalling losses, to Southern Mississippi in Jacksonville and Clemson in Doak. How could such a thing happen to a Bobby Bowden-coached team? But again, Bowden led his boys on another undefeated rampage and crushed poor Nebraska 41-17 in the Fiesta Bowl. Those 1989 Seminoles finished #3 again.
We all complained when we looked bad in the National Championship game against Tennessee in the Fiesta Bowl in 1998, losing by, well, only losing by a touchdown “but-we-still-looked-bad.” Few of us fans took into consideration that our quarterback was the third string guy in only his second career start. We’re the fabulous Florida State! We should win. No excuses.
The Dynasty ended after 2000 and since then we have meandered unevenly through passages of success and failure. In six years we’ve won some bowl games, we beat-up Notre Dame pretty badly on their own field, we’ve beaten both Florida and Miami, we won the first ACC Championship game, and according to the experts we’ve had great recruiting classes.
On the other hand, the offense has slowly withered, dampening fan enthusiasm and requiring the defense to do the heavy lifting. This 2006 season will be the weakest of the last six, but it could also be the last before the next-Dynasty revival. There is hope and there is a sense that good things are coming.
A key to the new Dynasty is Bobby Bowden himself. I don’t know him as well as some, but I think I have a sense of him that many in the public do not. I will not be surprised if he coaches another three or four years or more. I think I know what drives him, and I think his son’s resignation, while it upset and hurt him, will also have the unburdening effect that Coach Jeff Bowden no doubt wished it to have on his father. It closed a chapter and opened a door.
We’ll know when the Seminoles are back. A couple of sequential Top Four finishes should do it. So don’t depress yourself by believing that 2006 is the signature of Seminole Football. Public perception changes quickly, and when you continue to win, reality catches up.
Your University and this Athletics Program are run by honorable people. They are people of integrity and vision who are guided by their professionalism and a love for Florida State.
Trust is the key word. Seminole Booster CEO Andy Miller has always stressed that our organization must remain trustworthy in the eyes of our many contributors and supporters. We make every effort to keep your trust, and to do what’s right for the program.
Yes, this has been a mess, hooted over by our rivals and the media, and decried even by some of our own. Life is messy because we’re Human Beings with all the foibles and emotions and problems that presents.
But good people move forward when things must be done; even sometimes the ones who stand to get hurt by the process.
Interesting perspective don't you think Ash and Jon?
Might I say? I concur completely!!
This is the embodiment of what I call being a Seminole Fan and one that knows the "Bowden Way"Ash said:
posted on December 1, 2006 7:07 AM — 69.21.116.14 — link — abuse?
Joe,
I do stand corrected, what I meant to say was that Jeff resigned before we got him fired.
What amazes me is you said:
“However, it takes real courage and character to be patient and look at the whole picture without being so shrill, irrational, and emotional with little reasoning behind it.”
It took six years before the “cowardly crybaby fans” finally spoke up and demanded a change, how many more years would you have waited? Seven, eight, nine, ten, or fifty what limits does your “real courage and character” afford you? Once again its you who seems to dwell on areas that meet your requirements and not “look at the whole picture”.
As an example when I said “there is no way to hide these truths. In the six years he was OC the offensive steadily declined, in every major category.” You said and I quote “FSU led the ACC in Passing last season and is close this season. They had their 4th best rushing totals in history in JB first year calling plays. Just a few facts.” Both are true statements FSU did lead the ACC in passing last year but was substantially down in overall average ever year since Jeff took over. Also as a reminder in Jeff’s first full year, he had players recruited by Mark Richt.
No matter what spin you put on it, FSU is a great University and there are a lot of Coach’s who will want the position because we do show "The ultimate measure of class is how the fans treat the players and coaches", we gave Jeff six years anyone else would have been gone in two and they all know it.
And as to “One last comment and I have stated before. If gator or cane fans are agreeing with you, you are on the wrong side of the fence. You will notice "the love"!! all gator and cane fans have for me!!” Rational people often think alike.
This will be the last time I respond about this issue, I think that perhaps your right I will never change your mind when you think “I just hope the numbers of fans of you and Jon's ilk are in a minority when that occurs because with a fan base of that type will be the quickest way to being a habitually losing and unsuccessful program.” Because from what I can tell we are the majority and we are here to stay, and I can see that I am wasting my time. GO NOLES.
P.S. Any one out there have Chuck Amato’s Phone Number, we need to be calling him right now.
gatorhippy said:
posted on December 1, 2006 1:02 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Joe, be assured there were larger intentions in Pell's antics than beating FSU...
Slapping around FSU for six straight years was more of an afterthought for Charlie...
Giving that you are so keen on talking up probations and NCAA compliance issues…
Why, don’t we ever hear you mention the Hugh Durham era of FSU Basketball when speaking of the “squeaky clean” image of FSU athletics…
Joe said:
posted on December 1, 2006 2:23 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
I never have claimed FSU was completely sanction free for all sports over their entire history.
My only statement has been under the Bowden watch the football program has been "serious sanction" free under his stewardship which has always been maintaining the highest standards of honesty, decency, ethics, integrity, and class.
Such statements can't be made about UF or UM over the same period.
Oh and to ASH... see what I mean about gators??
As to the majority?? I still see Bowden and the administration making decisions that I agree with. They do things the "right way". I find that most comforting... I am always glad they pay little attention to fans like Jon and Ash. Oh and for the record Jeff would have never been fired. Take it to the bank!
Perhaps Ash you need to reread that message froma spokeperson from the Seminole boosters again. What do you think?
Again, for clarification I am glad Jeff made the decision he made, and totally agree because of the way it was handled was in the best interest of FSU for the future, and in keeping with the "Bowden Way".
Merry Christmas ASH and Jon though misguided you are at least Nole fans. I would re-evaluate being too close to gator fans and their opinions though.. Just a thought!
Cane_Nation said:
posted on December 1, 2006 3:41 PM — 205.166.218.5 — link — abuse?
Joe:
" If gator or cane fans are agreeing with you, you are on the wrong side of the fence."You may be right about the Gators, but not one Miami fan I know is happy about the state of FSU football this year. The only thing that sickened me worse than FSU this year was Miami. As a true fan of the Canes and college football, I want to get back to the stretch of one of these two teams playing for the national title every year. I want to watch our teams play in the ACC championship game every year. Can we do that if FSU sucks? So don't drag the Miami fans into this. I haven't seen a Miami fan on this site disrespect FSU or vice versa. This is a heated, but repectful rivalry that I hope ot see back at the top of rivalries that matter.
So, Joe, get off of your holier than thou crap and be happy that Jeff is gone. You can deny it all you want, but you know the program will be better off without him. And for the record I've always liked Bobby Bowden, but he's shown me something this year that I honestly never thought I would see. He came across to me as arrogant. This whole "I built this program and I'll be damned if I'm gonna be told what to do" attitude he gave really shocked me. I understand he built this from nothing, but does that give him the right to let Jeff run it in the ground? Really disappointed, Bobby. But still much respect for ya, but even more for the program you built.
Joe said:
posted on December 4, 2006 5:16 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
Cane Nation,
I certainly agree FSU will be better off without JB.
It was a difficult situation made far worse by too many belligerent "entitled fans". JB made the right choice and spared Bobby and FSU further embarrassment.
There were 4 choices:1. Keep JB at OC... That was not going to happen.
2. Demote JB- Possible but extremely unlikely.
3. Fire JB- Wasn't going to happen either..
4. Jeff resigns gets severance $$ by boosters.. "best choice" and what actually happened.
Jon said:
posted on December 7, 2006 10:32 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Joe - hypocrite. You have no control over anything we type of here... Yet you come on here and berate and scold us... And the sad thing is, you don't even care about us.
Now what makes more sense?
"Entitled fans" (who care about the thing they are targeting)... People coming together to share their opinion... explaining it online... in order to build numbers and make changes happen.
Or an "entitled enemy" (someone who is acting out of hatred of others actions..). So before you go waving that finger, remember.. when you respond to this with your typical negative drivel..and random LOL (that no one finds funny). you are just as guilty of the behavior that is arguably worse of the one you are accusing everyone else of...
I have invited you to a public debate. You have refused to release your identity. Hell, I can get us a spot on sports radio on 106.1 and completely demoralize you to your face... But I'm afraid that you would just find that the entire city consist of "entitled fans" ...who would be baffled as to why someone who classifies themselves as a "true fan" is willing to stand unwavering as the program burns down.
I care Joe. I care enough about the program to do everything in my power (within the law) to change things that I considered detrimental to the program. I am not capable of unconditional love of a football program. I believe that type of caring should only be reserved for friends and family. I believe your unconditional support troubling. But whatever floats your boat. But make no mistake, I love FSU football.. I love being able to judge the quality of athlete, judge the play calling, judge the coaching and judge the officiating..I love how football provides you with statistics that make measuring performance easy...and how accountability is clear and definable... In a world where politics and bureaucracy constantly drags us down, there is football...
Joe said:
posted on December 11, 2006 5:35 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
Amazing!! self-professed boasting there Jon boy!!
My only question where does this HS come from?
That you actually believe you can initiate change even lowers my less than steller evaluation of your intelligence.
Control what you type??? ROFLMAO!!!
Truthfully, I enjoy what you type... that way it removes all doubt of what a Maroon you are!!Tell us all again how?? you are going to choose FSU's new OC!!! LOL
As for your stats... I pretty much destroyed your childish analysis in the Jeff Bowden thread.
Keep bragging about how important your opinions are.. Heck, eventually someone might believe you!!
As for me I remain completely unimpressed and just a little disturbed over this "alleged power intelligence" you claim... NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!
So again you want my name??? HMMMMM? Sounds like a perverted internet stalker to me!!!
Should I be scared?????
Reality!!! JON!!! You are just "a nobody" fan like everyone else!~~Joe said:
posted on December 12, 2006 10:52 AM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
"I am not capable of unconditional love of a football program. I believe that type of caring should only be reserved for friends and family."
Interesting thought there Jon.. Yet, you deny Bowden that same right??Your major problem is you fail to see "the bigger picture" and that is the "perception" of FSU that is given to the nation by fans like yourself.
You also have a major flaw in thinking how you can influence FSU decisions. Negativity only brings more failure.
You obviously don't understand how FSU was built under the Bowden watch. You somehow expect him to change and adopt unethical, indecent, and less honest values losing all integrity. Thoset are not the standards by which Bowden and FSU built the program.
No one hates losing or poor performance more than the players and the coaches. They are always their own worst critics. Yet you somehow believe that "piling on" will improve the situation. You are indeed WRONG!
You speak of not having unconditional love of the program. So I guess you have unconditional HATE? for the program. As I have stated before your biggest problem is you wrap up your own self- worth into the fortunes of a football team you are a fan. That is the problem you must learn to deal with. Learning that you have "no control" over such things is a part of a maturing process. I wish you luck and good health at achieving that admirable goal. I do believe you will enjoy the game more and be much better off with this outlook. It has nothing to do with "CARING".gatorhippy said:
posted on December 12, 2006 4:00 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Joe;
No doubt BB has "unconditional love" for JB...
The problem stems from the fact Bobby allowed his personal life to affect professional decision making...
Just the way I see it, but I'm sure you'll dismiss that as mouthy secretive undermining and sabatoge...
Joe said:
posted on December 13, 2006 9:37 AM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
Actually, gator hippy Bobby indeed put himself in an untenable situation with his promotion of his son to OC.. It was indeed an impossible situation when you are forced to abandon family values for the possibility of a more successful football team.
As pointed out it was a difficult situation and Jeff made the best decision of the 4 choices available.
When Bowden promoted JB and hired Dickey there were good rational reasons for the moves from a continuity standpoint.
It appears that Bobby is finally going to become a CEO of the offense rather than director in his final years.
From what I am hearing the whole Offensive staff is going to be changed and run by a new OC largely in charge of the whole show with new assistants.Joe said:
posted on December 15, 2006 4:33 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
The "fans" choice is Jimbo Fisher supposedly he will bring in the OL coach from WV and Dawsey from USF to coach the WRs.
Still pretty much in the air and Hatcher and a few others have been mentioned.
Personally, I don't have a clue on what the new Offensive staff will look like, but Bowden does appear excited about it. I think he is ready for the shakeup in the staff.
Truthfully, I am excited for the change. I realize that I am a minority opinion, but I don't think FSU's offensive staff has been well organized since the late 80's. If JB resigning is the impetus for a more coordinated and organized offensive game plan I am all for it. Would love to see FSU return to good fundamental football... running the ball with a well designed passing offense.Joe said:
posted on December 19, 2006 2:16 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
With the filling of both the LA Tech and UAB jobs it appears that the Jimbo Fisher hiring could be imminent. It is rumored that Lawrence Dawsey WR coach at USF and Trickett OL coach at WV will be joining him. Just rumors at the moment but they appear to have legs.
Not to beat a dead horse but a recent article in ESPN the Magazine addressed Bobby Bowden rather well IMHO.
Quoted from the article:
"But not unlike Bowden, today's angry FSU faithful have lost some memory. A middling record in 2006 can dilute decades of excellent work that came before it. So you won two national championships. So you finished Top 5 for an absurd
14 years. What did you against Clemson last week, Ya Bum?What's the saying - you can tell a lot about society by how it treats it's elederly? Well,sports nation is rabid and irrational and loud and forgetful of things like history and dignity. Like Joe Paterno, Bowden deserves to leave as he pleases."
____________________________
"Noise dies. Immortals don't."
I think that pretty much captures my perspective on Bowden and what he has meant and accomplished at FSU. Logically, you can see why? some irrational "entitled" fan's opinion of Bowden means little to me. Also, I believe such opinions deserve all the chastizement they can receive.gatorhippy said:
posted on December 20, 2006 4:02 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
With all the buzz surrounding Jimbo and his apparent disinterest in open jobs...
Is this scenario possible...
Bowden stumps for Jeff to join the team in San Fran as he has knowingly made the decision to retire...
Jimbo has alredy been tapped to replace Bobby starting in 2007...
Not stating this has/will happen, just voicing a possibility...
Joe said:
posted on December 22, 2006 12:23 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
Bowden at this point has absolutely no interest in retirement barring of course "health concerns". He appears well on that front. If anything he appears more energized than ever with the removal of a very difficult problem that was finally solved.
I do believe that if indeed the Fisher hire is accomplished, Bobby will finally become more of a CEO like he has been with the defense.Truly at this time that is the best role for him, and he has earned the highest respect in that regard from his peers throughout college football. His sense of loyalty to his coaches is known well.
Face it any "up and coming" assistant coach would love to work with "a living legend", and certainly Bowden won't last forever, so a major "plum" may indeed be available in the future.
gatorhippy said:
posted on December 23, 2006 10:55 AM — 70.121.108.137 — link — abuse?
I dunno, Joe...
Sexton announces his resignation yesterday as per the Orando Sentinel...
It sure seems like this could be Bobby's way of sticking it to the fanbase that has began to grumble...
BTW, I didn't see that Sexton got a $500,000 severance contract for his 30 year tenure at FSU...
He did get a job with Seminole Boosters, Inc. though...
Joe said:
posted on December 24, 2006 7:56 AM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
You are misinformed and using the Orlando Sentinal as a source of info on FSU is not reliable at all.
As to the fan base, some have been a total embarrassment to FSU, and any coach that allows those types of fans make any decisions surely are on the wrong path. Thankfully, those types have no say nor should they!
Sexton was a 30 year employee and extremely happy and grateful and excited to be moving on to a new position.
Really, you need to get over the JB severence package. FSU does things differently than many Division One schools. They do things the RIGHT WAY in my opinion and many others.Bowden has earned the highest respect possible from those that truly understand what he has meant to the program. Even the potential hiring of a new OC is being done in a most respectful and ethical way. You need to talk to Billy about what he thinks of moving on to a new challenge. Just like Gladden moved on to a position off the staff Sexton is following suit. How about Jimmy Heggins exit or Richt or Amato? Even Brad Scott. FSU is making its changes in a most decent way as it always has. To suggest otherwise is foolish.
Need we look at how Florida has handled its hirings and firings the last few years??? Talk about shameful!! Even more embarrassing historically is looking at some of the UF firings of the past, and why? they occurred!!;-)
Just a thought but I think you could use a bit more insight into Bowden "the man" before casting such aspersions. It doesn't exactly paint a particularly good picture of you, and your own personal standards of ethics, family, and decency from my observation.Bowden is truly an admirable man, and to not recognize this at this late stage is pretty sad. His history is well documented. Is he perfect? Heck no! However, there are very few coaches that have set a better standard, and those standards are not at all about his phenomenal winning record. Bowden's loyalty and integrity are well documented. Perhaps you need to watch the "WE ARE MARSHALL" film.
gatorhippy said:
posted on December 24, 2006 11:37 AM — 70.121.108.137 — link — abuse?
And exactly what would your "observations" be on my standards of ethics, family, and decncy...
Better yet...
Without even knowing me or my family and having never even met me personally how can you make any observation of me at all...
Back to the Bowden fallout...
I would say that in all my time following athletics, I personally have never heard of signing a coach to a new contract after he resigns...
Maybe paying out the current one, but never signing a new deal as a severance package...
Please document for me exactly where this precedent was set at FSU or any other sporting institution; amateur or professional...
Once again in terms of Bowden's alleged "legendary loyalty" to his staff, I ask you to exactly explain why in 1984 Art Baker wasn't afforded this loyalty that you speak of...
Hell, the '84 Seminoles went 7-4 under his veer offense but yet he was canned at the end of the season...
Seems contradictory to the Bowden Way you speak so highly of...
But yet JB was afforded to continue even after a continued downward turn in W/L annually over six years...
Seems maybe it does pay to where the Bowden name...
I'm a little confused on your comment about the O-Sent...
Are you trying to say that Sexton didn't resign...
Uh, because he did, as can be seen from perusing the Tally Democrat as well...
One last thing...
You don't think Bobby has a problem with the lack of support even from Wetherell's office...
Again, not saying it is gonna happen, but don't be surprised if Bowden bails unexpectedly...
I won't...
Joe said:
posted on December 26, 2006 2:40 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
I believe it was a most respectful choice towards both Bobby and Jeff. You disagree. Sexton has 30 years of service at FSU. He moved on to another challenge. Seems fine with me.
I understand that perhaps you find such things as possibly repugnant and unattractive. I don't.
I think it is called doing the "right thing" in a most non- obtrusive way. I think it is decent and the RIGHT thing to do. You don't. That is why I questioned your own personal values.Based on your comments which choice would you personally preferred???
1. JB fired?
2. JB Demoted?
3. JB retained?
4. JB resign with a very respectful severence?
I choose number #4 since it honors both JB and Bobby for what they have meant to FSU.This 1984' piece of trivia? you continue to bring up? Is this similar to gator arguments over the cancellation of Washington on the schedule as a means of defending UF dropping UM?
Truthfully, the only thing I remember from 1984 was "Hell Yes WE Cheat", and some NCAA bigwig stating...paraphrased.... "UF's cheating was among some of the most grevious ever processed by the NCAA"
Heck, Kines was released not too long ago to become the DC of Bama.. Seemed OK to me...As to Art Baker... Are you serious??? Not really aware of anything major about the issue.. that you bring up such trivial stuff sounds like you might be a candidate as a new spokesperson for the Ole TGRRT in Tally. Perhaps you can take departed Republican Marty's place? Just stay clear of that moral turpitude stuff!! Did he make all gator fans proud ???
If indeed this Baker removal was so horrible.. I guess I will refer you back to my comment.. "Is Bowden perfect? Heck No!" That being said.. I certainly respect him 10,000 times more than some silly gator fan trying to trash him!! I suggest such fans show some of his class for change!! Would Bobby ever utter such stuff personally towards you?gatorhippy said:
posted on December 26, 2006 7:36 PM — 70.121.109.213 — link — abuse?
Not saying there is anything "so horrible" about the Baker deal...
Just curious where Bowden's "loyalty to his coaching staff" was in regards to this particular staff member...
Why wasn't he afforded the a 6 year chance at running the offense after a sub-par showing...
I believe you have missed the point with the Sexton issue...
I simply am curious why a 30 year employee and obvious Bowden loyaltist would decide to leave so suddenly...
Again, I just speculate this could be a precursor to the Bowden exit after the Emerald Bowl and recruiting is over...
Just a speculation, Joe...
Try not to get your panties so wadded up...
Joe said:
posted on December 27, 2006 11:54 AM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
You continue to ask questions which I answer, but refuse to answer mine. Why is that????
Restating for a clarification on your personal ethics and integrity which you infer I am wrong about.
Based on your comments which choice would you have personally preferred???
1. JB fired?
2. JB Demoted?
3. JB retained?
4. JB resign with a very respectful severence?I patiently await your response. Should I hold my breath??
gatorhippy said:
posted on December 29, 2006 10:23 AM — 70.121.109.213 — link — abuse?
Well, Joe...
If I was a Nole fan, and was limited to THOSE choices...
I would have picked to have him demoted, rather than reward him for sub-par performance...
He was a decent receivers coach, but lacks something when it comes to organizing an offensive scheme...
However, his resignation is what should have happened, just not at the expense of paying him for the next five years after a performing poorly on the job...
Again, show me where FSU (or any other school) has set the precedent of paying ANY coach other than the lead dog a five year half a million dollar contract after annually performing below expectations...
Rather than just buying out the current contract...
I'll be patiently waitng for that answer...
And beleive me, I won't hold my breath...
Joe said:
posted on December 30, 2006 11:59 AM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
Well gator hippy I can understand if you were a Noles fan you might indeed wish for that choice. However, that choice would not be the choice of those Nole fans that understand what Bobby Bowden has meant to the program and also understands the way he operates and runs the program. I am sure many CFB fans today feel the same way as you do about such things. In the “what have you done for me lately” crowd this kind of mantra is often found. I think it revolves around a lack of respect for accomplishment, loyalty, service, and achievement. If you have accomplished very little it is easy to dismiss and disparage those that actually have accomplished something. It evidently is a new phenomenon among many today. Unlike you and many others, I do respect accomplishment, service, and more importantly those that seem to always make thoughtful and decent decisions based on ethics, loyalty, integrity, and honesty.
Demotion would have been insulting and demeaning to both Bobby and Jeff. Jeff (while I certainly won’t deny) was part of the problem with the offense, he certainly wasn’t the only problem. You certainly I am sure are aware of Billy Sexton’s recent move to another position with the University? FSU does things just a bit differently than some. You may prefer other methods. Personally, I like the way FSU operates on such matters.
Ponder for just a moment another idea. Think about the following things: Respect, Family, Loyalty, and “Doing the Right” thing. Sometimes you have to do things with just a little deeper thought. Think of The FSU program today with all its success and accomplishment that have actually exceeded UF and most programs that have been around soo much longer.
Think about how long! JB has coached and been involved with the FSU program?? Also, consider that he indeed is the son of a “living legend” in CFB. Whether you choose to accept it or not, Bowden has made the FSU football program what it is today. As a UF fan I can understand how this would be difficult for you to comprehend given the many times UF has replaced coaches and kicked them to the curb. Heck, Spurrier just quit on UF because of the booster attitudes there. I can readily understand how it is difficult for you to comprehend how FSU does things.
At FSU it is much different. Bowden is to FSU what Paterno is to Penn State and Bear Bryant was to Alabama. UF has never had such a "legend" coach them so I understand your difficulty in understanding.
Jeff may not have been the greatest OC when put in the light of what FSU accomplished from 1987- 2000. Certainly records of 8-4, 9-5,10-3,8-5, and 7-6 are not near what was accomplished in 1987- 2000. However, name me any other program that has ever had such an impressive run as FSU had from 1987- 2000??? There aren’t any. By your idea of “under- performing” using the FSU “standard” of 1987-2000 using your logic there wouldn’t be a single CFB team in the country without someone being demoted or fired almost every year!!!!!
This was a most difficult issue for FSU to deal with because truthfully Jeff Bowden was not the only “scapegoat” causing FSU’s drop in performance. There have been many “factors” that have led to the decline, and those with good insight realize them. I do believe you know the myriad of reasons so I will not bother to list them for there are indeed many!!
Put in simple terms Jeff “fell on the sword” to help his dad and FSU make the changes that needed to take place. He actually tried to do it last year, but Bobby wouldn’t let him. That the boosters sweetened the pot was due to their doing the right thing for the Bowden family and Jeff in an extremely respectful manner. It may indeed seem unusual to you but really isn’t when you consider that Jeff wasn’t the “only problem” at FSU. While coaching certainly is a part of what happens on the field, it still comes down to the players executing and not making mistakes. All the coaching in the world will never stop mistakes from happening. Heck, UF’s offense has been constantly making mistakes all season. Had it not been for a stellar defense and special teams they wouldn’t be the MNC game. Should Meyer and his OC be replaced because of this? Of course not!!While I stand corrected, I don’t believe Bowden has ever demoted anyone. Perhaps there is another “Art Baker”??? example you will provide.
Speaking of the Art Baker issue I did a little research on the topic. WOULD YOU CARE TO EXPLAIN??
Miami Herald, The (FL) - January 9, 1984FLORIDA STATE HIRES EAST CAROLINA ASSISTANT BAKER Art Baker, associate head football coach at East Carolina last season, was named No. 2 man Sunday under Coach Bobby Bowden at Florida State.Baker, 55, will take the place of Mike Kruczek, the quarterback coach who resigned to try a comeback as a player with the USFL's Jacksonville Bulls.Baker was head coach of The Citadel from 1978 to 1982, compiling a 30-24-1 record, and previously had led Furman to a 27-24-4 mark in five seasons.
Miami Herald, The (FL) - January 29, 1985BOWDEN NAMES TWO ASSISTANTS Florida State football coach Bobby Bowden, who lost assistants Gene McDowell and Art Baker to head-coaching jobs, Monday announced their replacements. Wally Burnham, 43, joins the Seminoles as a defensive assistant. Burnham, a former teammate of Bowden's at Samford University, served on George Allen's staff with the USFL Arizona Wranglers last season. He replaces McDowell, who became head coach at the University of Central Florida.
Seems pretty legitimate when you leave to become a head coach somewhere else. Perhaps you are relying on just another gator fabrication on the “BAKER” issue.
Not that I would be surprised of such stuff coming from the UF camp. Is this something endemic with being involved with UF?? Not very flattering!!! IMHO. I think I do indeed understand your confusion over Jeff leaving and his severance package.
WOW! To think I was almost ready to accept your comments concerning FSU and Baker as being factual????
Come on Gator hippy! Shame on you!!! Hopefully, the fabrication came from someone else perhaps one of those "old lying" TGRRT members.. If that indeed is the case, I would avoid repeating their falsehoods without a bit of research on your part. As the articles show it does indeed reflect badly on your credibility.
While holding your breath may indeed have not been a good choice for you, I do believe I have answered your question in a most thoughtful and timely way.
You may not agree with the way FSU did it but I do!! We choose to disagree. Personally, again I am glad FSU handled it the way they did. I don't respect the way UF handles such things!! Have a Happy Holiday!!gatorhippy said:
posted on January 1, 2007 7:52 PM — 70.121.109.213 — link — abuse?
Joe, I guess what you are saying is that there isn't a precedent to this and that FSU is indeed acting upon the fact that Jeffy is being paid for his name...
I'll take the links on those articles if you don't mind...
Every thing I remember about Baker and his stint at FSU was the fact that there were constant grumblings as his offense sputtered for the season and that he left FSU and received the East Carolina job subsequently...
Baker did not leave for the ECU job, it was given to him after the fact...
Again, I would love the link to both articles you have referenced in order to read them in their entirety...
Secondly, if you don't like the Baker comparison, then how about former 19 year FSU OL coach Jimmy Heggins who "resigned" two years ago...
He certainly put in his time with the Noles...
Bottom line: Jeff was payed off because of his last name...
You may not want to admit it and can even continue to lie to yourself about it while wrapping yourself in your "Bowden Way" mantra...
Using your own example...
Take a good hard look at the University of Alabama...
Do you see where they are now...
FSU is steering themselves down that road...
And it ain't gonna be pretty...
Dad'gummit...
Joe said:
posted on January 2, 2007 7:35 PM — 72.185.22.184 — link — abuse?
Well I see little resemblance between the coaching search at Alabama and FSU. Frankly I think Alabama is acting more like Foley when he went shopping for Zook.
Like I said FSU does things a bit differently and Heggins accepted a new coaching position before exiting just like Mark Richt and Amato. FSU allows their coaches to leave with dignity rather than being sent to the curb.
Of course with the new staff changes being made there actually may be some that are released because from my understanding the NEW OC will be the one deciding who stays and who leaves on the new Offensive staff.
Lets get something straight on JB. He resigned! Though he may get to be the WR coach at Georgia it hasn't been offered yet. Heggins didn't resign until he had another coaching position at Kentucky.
You are correct Jeff having the Bowden name does count for something and that he was given an decent severence for his extended SERVICE with no job at the moment was the right thing to do for the Bowden family.
Personally, I couldn't be prouder of the way FSU and the boosters handled this entire most difficult situation. I guess we will just leave it to a few disgruntled Nole fans that don't count and I guess gator fans like you to grouse about it! Myself, I am extremely optimistic that next season FSU will be on its way back.
As to BAMA? That I am afraid has been a national embarrassment the way its been handled. Glad FSU chose a different path.
gatorhippy said:
posted on January 2, 2007 9:59 PM — 70.121.109.213 — link — abuse?
I notice that you still haven't provided links for those articles yet...
As well, failing to show the precedent for signing a resigning coach to a new half a million dollar contract regardless of whether he gets a new job or not...
Heggins like Baker received a new job offer after leaving FSU...
He did not leave because of an offer at Kentucky...
Jimmy was held up as a scapegoat in defense of Jeff...
Just like Chris Rix...
You seem proud of the Bowden blackmail of Nole Boosters, INC. while the rest of us see it for what it really is...
A sick payoff due to law breaking nepotism...
Rerread the post, Joe...
FSU is "heading down the same road as Bama"...
They aren't there yet but have pulled up to the crossroads...
When Bobby is gone, it will be a constant search for Bowden ties and NONE of them will live up to the booster and fan standards...
There are only two things holding him in position right now...
Paterno's refusal to retire in face of a extremely severe injury and a pigheaded attempt to prove to all the naysayers that he indeed can still put it together...
All at the cost of his dignity and and the sacrafice of the program he has built with the help of FSU...
Once again...
I challenge you to filling me in on the precedent that set the groundwork for Jeff's new contract at resignation; as well as providing the links for your Baker "research"...
Joe said:
posted on January 4, 2007 3:52 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
The articles are published from the Miami Herald. The dates are completely accurate. If you want to read the entire articles go to the library. The point is they were actual articles printed by the Herald, unlike your opinions that come from ????? I produce actual articles, and you have the unmitigated gall to question their veracity??
Why do you care so much about this? I can understand the confusion over such matters as honoring extended service coming from a school that such ideas are foreign. UF represents "HELL YES WE CHEAT" and "ETHICS AND INTEGRITY BE DAMNED!" Why don't we go and review the whole story on Marcus Thomas... Damn! It sure takes a lot to get removed from UF?? It would be nice to see UF actually have some strict rules that are applied to all players.
Relax! gator hippy being a gator fan you will never understand class, respect, and dignity.. Its a "NOLE AND BOWDEN THING" You just wouldn't understand.
Nepotism? Oh Please!! If laws were broken most certainly there would have been legal charges. Like most of your utterings you just lack any credibility. You just appear to be just another angry, silly gator fan. Why this is so important to you, I haven't a clue?I challenge you to provide anything more than mindless jealous gator fan drivel??
Is anyone that actually means something to FSU complaining about JB's severence?? Perhaps you can link that!! gator boy!!
oh and for Heggins his own words:St. Petersburg Times (FL) - January 5, 2005
Assistant's exit could spur more changes at FSU
The shakeup of Florida State's offensive staff began Tuesday with the resignation of line coach Jimmy Heggins."I've enjoyed my 19 years at FSU, and right now, I think it's time to move on," he said in a statement. "I've got some other things I'm pursuing. I'll always be a Seminole."
and this:Tallahassee Democrat (FL) - January 15, 2005
Kentucky hires former FSU assistant Heggins
Jimmy Heggins has found a new home in Kentucky. Heggins, who resigned as Florida State's offensive line coach Jan.4, was hired Thursday as offensive-line coach at Kentucky by head coach Rick Brooks.Heggins joins a staff that is looking to make tangible improvement after going 2-9 last season.
I realize that getting hired 2 weeks later isn't enough for you, but it will do for me. Whose opinion to trust? Gator misfit? or Jimmy Heggins and articles stating his intentions and results? Gee! that is a tough one!
gatorhippy said:
posted on January 4, 2007 4:29 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Ok, Joe...
So where is Mark McHale's parting gift?
Surely he should be paid some type of severance or new contract on his way out since "FSU does things just a bit differently" and as that seems to be the "Bowden Way"...
Nope, instead his contract just will not be renewed...
Why was this not an option for Jeffy?
Don't answer, I'll answer for you...
Because his last names is BOWDEN...
McHale has just become the latest scapegoat for Jeff's poor performance...
Like Jimmy Heggins...
Like Chris Rix...
Still waiting on those Baker article links...
Really would like to see the entire articles...
gatorhippy said:
posted on January 4, 2007 10:59 PM — 70.121.184.145 — link — abuse?
Joe, apparently Tally Dem's own Randy Beard feels differently on the Heggins situation...
http://www.tallahassee.com/legacy/special/blogs/2006/11/on-jeff-bowdens-buyout-and-other-acc.html
Tallhassee Democrat - Friday, November 17, 2006
On Jeff Bowden's buyout and other ACC notes and quotes
"Dave Hart said earlier this week that it isn't unusual to pay an assistant football coach a severance package beyond what's owed in his contract. He indicated in an interview with Steve Ellis that Jeff Bowden won't be the first coach to walk away with a little extra spending money in his pocket. That would suggest that Jimmy Heggins was given a buy-out, too.Guess that means we need to make another FOI request."
Hmmmmm...Beard later in the discussion section over this article makes this comment:
"You could be right. It could have been both, although Heggins was the one who was more or less forced out the door."
Lemme repeat that...
"Heggins was the one who was more or less forced out the door."
So who to believe...
A smarmy 'Nole who only posts half the story trying to pass it off as the whole "truth"...
Or...
A celebrated journalist who certainly has an inside track to inner workings in the FSU program...
I think I'll stick with Randy's opinion on how it shook out...
As to Heggin's statements in the PUBLIC EYE...
Wouldn't be very prudent to bad mouth your former employer publicly...
Kinda put a damper on finding your next job...
Once again...
Still waitng for the situational precedent that shows FSU "does things a bit differently" by resigning outgoing coaches to contracts rather than just paying out their current one...
FYI, I'll check on your Baker article sources...
Since you are reluctant to provide a link...
BTW, Steele is a smart man for getting the hell out of Tally before Bowden chooses "not to renew his contract"...
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MB007 said:
posted on November 14, 2006 9:31 PM — 70.147.122.236 — link — abuse?Yes! There's hope!