January 17, 2007
Chuck the Chest returns to FSU
If you're a FSU fan, you really have to be pleased with the way that Bobby Bowden has re-engineered his coaching staff during the off-season. Let's review:
Out: Jeff Bowden, OC/WR
Out: Darryl Dickey, QB
In: Jimbo Fisher, OC/QB (LSU)
In: Lawrence Dawsey, WR (USF)
Out: Mark McHale, OL
In: Rick Trickett, OL (WVU)
Out: Billy Sexton, RB
In: Dexter Carter, RB
Out: Kevin Steele, LB
Now, former NC State head coach Chuck Amato has been hired as executive associate head coach and linebackers coach. That's right, Chuck the Chest is back in T-town.
"With Chuck Amato accepting the position we have completed our coaching staff and I could not be more pleased," said Bowden. "Chuck's return to Mickey Andrew's staff with Odell Haggins and Jody Allen along with the new offensive coaches and John Lilly should give us as good a coaching staff as there is in the country. I feel like the blend of maturity and youth will work perfectly for us. Chuck will fill the last void we had in our staff and allow us not to miss a beat."
And the rest of the coaching staff? Coach Bowden chose to retain DC Mickey Andrews, TE coach John Lilly, DL coach Odell Haggins, DE coach Jody Allen and strength coach Jon Jost. Many thought Haggins might be replaced, given some of the struggles the 'Noles had on the D-line, but I think that was more a product of trying to cover inexperience (plus players getting out of their lanes, trying to do too much, and covering for injured players) than it was a reflection on Haggins. After all, the FSU D-Line pedigree is pretty stout recently.
I can't lie - Steele was a *huge* loss for the 'Noles. He is a talented guy and an amazing hire for Alabama. But, in total, the Seminoles are far, far ahead of where they were just a few weeks ago when the season ended -- getting Amato back in the fold is a big part of that. The loss of Steele is mitigated with Amato back. The only fall off will occur with Sexton, who was a great recruiter and turned out some great FSU RBs over the years.
AD Dave Hart points out that FSU's staff is more diverse - racially, ages, backgrounds - than it has been in a long time, if ever.
"One of the most pleasing elements is the diversity of the staff," said Dave Hart, Florida State's director of athletics. "I'm not just talking about the racial diversity, which I'm very pleased about. I'm talking about the diversity in the balance of the staff. There is a great blend of youth and veteran experience with great tacticians and great recruiters. This is a unique blend of talent. Collectively, I really believe we have one of the strongest coaching staffs in college football."
And FSU is already seeing a dramatic change with these coaches. Former 'Nole lineman Matt Meinrod notes that Trickett is changing the way FSU recruits linemen.
Meinrod contrasts Trickett's WVU linemen against the long-standing FSU's past prototype - the 'Eers "fire off low, play until the whistle blows, finish blocks, and rarely seem to tire in the fourth quarter."
In other words, gone are the 90's prototype anvil lineman. Meinrod cites the decision to pull a scholarship offer from a 340-pounder, who went on to sign at a big time school. In their place, Trickett is recruiting agile guys who can move and block. (How novel!)
And the new staff is racking up the airline miles, too. Warchant is reporting that Bowden and four of his coaches visited a blue-chip recruit in his home this week.
Hats off to Bobby Bowden - an old dog who's mixing some of new tricks in with the old.
For those FSU fans wanting more insight into changes at Florida State, check out the seven day free trial of Warchant.com, one of the best sites in the Rivals network.
Comments:
noleination said:
posted on January 17, 2007 8:15 PM — 68.207.104.37 — link — abuse?
This hire truly apeases the loss of Coach Steele. They are basically a toss up as far as coaching. But The Chest may have the edge as far as recruiting. Sexton leaving shouldnt hurt too bad. The backs are going to have huge holes to run through with Trickett in there. Dawsey, and DC will be great recruiters; especially with the black athlete. All I know is I feel sorry for the rest of the ACC, and the Gators. Go Noles!!!
posted on January 17, 2007 8:19 PM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue said:
I'm definitely excited for the next year - it will be interesting to see how long it takes for our performance to match our potential.
posted on January 17, 2007 8:27 PM — 70.149.173.3 — link — abuse?
Umm...It's Jimbo Fisher...
fsu.fan said:
posted on January 17, 2007 8:30 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
I agree Kevin. It's an awesome time to be a Nole. The performance will match the potential immediately. I've referenced to this before but...
Look at Tennessee. Two years ago they went 5-6 losing to Vandy the last game of the year. They completely redid their offensive staff after that. They had a pretty great season this past year and were back in the SEC hunt - in only the first year of the new offense. FSU has younger kids than tenn did so they should adapt and relearn a system easier. Plus, I think Bobby has surrounded himself with better over all coaches than tenn did.
All in all. FSU will be back in the top 5 next year - our 14 year streak in the top 5 is long gone but... its time to start a new one!
GO NOLES!!!
Tom Blogical said:
posted on January 17, 2007 8:40 PM — 24.95.77.153 — link — abuse?
Very good acquisitions. I have to admit that I follow FSU also (not as closely as OSU, obviously), and I've always liked Bobby Bowden and the program down there, so it's good to see these changes.
I think the performance will change pretty quickly, even with the learning curve the players will have.
Trickster said:
posted on January 17, 2007 8:58 PM — 68.17.160.88 — link — abuse?
Hey, I'm a Bama fan and an FSU non-fan. I would love to maximize your Kevin Steele loss and minimize the gains.
But in all honesty you guys have definitely upgraded your staff over-all. You have a very impressive group now. Whether Bowden's still got it in him to produce big-time winners is the only question left. If it doesn't happen it sure won't be because of the staff and on-field talent.
NOTaNOLE said:
posted on January 17, 2007 9:37 PM — 24.170.134.145 — link — abuse?
So how do you think Mickey's gonna take it going from running the defense to being second to a proven defensive guy like Amato? Maybe he can follow Bobby around and keep him from wandering off. Great looking staff though, looking forward to breaking them in over the next few years...
It Great to be...
posted on January 17, 2007 9:55 PM — link — abuse?
Mickey is the #1 on defense, period. Longer term you could have an issue with Chuck clashing with Mickey, I suppose. I think the NC State exit took Chuck down a peg. All that said, I think these guys want to send Bobby out in style and will put the team first as long as Bobby is around. Just my 2 cents.
BamaNole said:
posted on January 17, 2007 11:00 PM — 66.184.203.98 — link — abuse?
Remember that the Mickey and Chesty tandem worked very well in the past. No, they will not agree on everthing, but I think that the from their arguments have come some of the best defensive schemes FSU ever ran. I think Mickey needs someone with the confidence to make suggestions. And no, there will be no argument over who runs the defense. Mickey does. Chuck will be plenty busy with all the auxillary issues that Bobby will dump on him now that he is back.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on January 18, 2007 12:35 AM — 4.88.28.7 — link — abuse?
A much improved staff! Maybe the Noles will give the Gators a game this year in Gainesville. However, if Weatherford starts for most of FSU's games next year it doesn't seem likely the offense will have a night-and-day transformation. Unless the QB coaching was really horrendous, I just don't think this kid has much potential. Calling it like I see it.
Scott said:
posted on January 18, 2007 7:01 AM — 152.163.100.196 — link — abuse?
Gatorpilot-
You say maybe FSU can give the gators a game this year? How soon you forget. Weatherford gave you 3 ints. (2 in your own teritory) and you won by 7. Congrats on the NC but don't forget you were given the chance by FSU giving you that win.
As far as the bad QB play, yes it was coaching. The last two QB's, Weatherford and Rix, both looked good as freshmen. But the next year there was no improvement if not a little regression. That points to coaching. Let's see how they do this year.
Jon said:
posted on January 18, 2007 8:11 AM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
if Weatherford starts for most of FSU's games next year it doesn't seem likely the offense will have a night-and-day transformation.
A few words of advice:
Anquan Boldin
Leon WashingtonWhy is this relevant?
First years in the NFL, they played much better than their respective place in the draft. Much better than they played at FSU?Why is this relevant?
We have no idea how good Chris Rix, Drew Whetherford, Xavier Lee, etc.is... they never were coached up to their level of talent and didn't have the opportunity to develop under a real offensive system.So I wouldn't make any predictions about FSU just yet. If these coaches are able to pull all of our players up to 80% of their potential in the first year, you are going to be a very sad person in November next year.
TampaGator said:
posted on January 18, 2007 9:24 AM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
I already miss Jeff Bowden. FSU has clearly made some good moves this off-season, though I still like our chances of extending our streak to 5 (...not a typo; we will never recognive "ref-gate" as a loss for Gators (or win for FSU)).
GO GATORS!!
P.S.--"The tits", not "the Chest". Chuck needs a man-bra like Joke-Campbell needed that brick facade!
fsu.fan said:
posted on January 18, 2007 10:28 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Scott nailed it. Chris Rix had more potential than maybe any QB Florida State has ever had (until Lee, that kid looks great). Rix was not under sized, had a strong arm, and decently mobile. His biggest problem - bad, bad, and then worse decision making and mental toughness. That's coaching. Drew has a lot of abilities along with Lee, the new coaching will unlock their abilities and put it on the field - Jeffy would have sat there twiddling his thumbs wondering what the combination to unlock it is.
Nolen1999 said:
posted on January 18, 2007 12:04 PM — 207.203.238.6 — link — abuse?
Gatorpilot & TampaGator:
Do I smell haters in the house?
Like Scott said... we gave you Gaytors the game? LOL... The score was 21-14, not 41-14! Does that mean FSU could have competed against OSU? I doubt it, even though we came close to upsetting UF in the last game.
We have a new QB coach running the show, we'll see if our QB's have potential to be great.
There was nothing impressive about UF the whole season, except for maybe the NC. UF "survived" all season. Maybe the Big 10 was overrated??? All I know is that Gaytor and Canes fans are not liking the direction that FSU is heading. The coaching changes were long overdue and now opponents are curious to see what FSU will be like come Sept.
Nolen1999 said:
posted on January 18, 2007 12:05 PM — 207.203.238.6 — link — abuse?
Gatorpilot & TampaGator:
Do I smell haters in the house?
Like Scott said... we gave you Gaytors the game? LOL... The score was 21-14, not 41-14! Does that mean FSU could have competed against OSU? I doubt it, even though we came close to upsetting UF in the last game.
There was nothing impressive about UF the whole season, except for maybe the NC. UF "survived" all season. Maybe the Big 10 was overrated??? All I know is that Gaytor and Canes fans are not liking the direction that FSU is heading. The coaching changes were long overdue and now opponents are curious to see what FSU will be like come Sept.
We have a new QB coach running the show, we'll see if our QB's have potential to be great.
Ash said:
posted on January 18, 2007 12:48 PM — 69.21.116.14 — link — abuse?
Everyone said we had the talent but needed better coaching, well with this coaching lineup I guess the proof is in the pudding. With this team, and the personnel we have coming back, ACC Champions comes to mind, and yes now that the NC is over with, and I can go back to gator hater, we may just surprise you in Gainesville in November. That loving feeling is back GO NOELS!!!!!!!!!
Joe said:
posted on January 18, 2007 12:53 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
The biggest change in FSU hopefully will be in cohesive game planning and finally an end to the "Chinese Fire Drill" that has been endemic with FSU since Charlie Ward. Truthfully, had it not been for Ward's uncanny ability to turn a busted play into a touchdown, the problem still would have been apparent then as well. "Too many cooks" always leads to a very confused and inefficient product. IMO I do believe Bobby is finally releasing the offense to others.
Truthfully, it does look like FSU will get back to an NFL style offense with a good strong running game and deadly passing game. This will help to an already great reputation and enhance even more FSU to being "the pipeline to the Pros" as a recent comprehensive Wall Street Journal pointed out most accurately. No one has been better in the last decade or so at producing quality pro prospects.
Potentially, a terrific staff if they all can work together towards a better product. Amato will be good at keeping the defense consistent. His devil's advocate approach will certainly help. Great! South Florida recruiter.
As good of a recruiter that Steele was, I think FSU's staff is far better in that area as well with the new additions.mblackburn6 said:
posted on January 18, 2007 3:07 PM — 169.139.112.9 — link — abuse?
I'm as die had Nole as they come.
I absolutely believe the team will be drastically improved from last year.
But whether we can beat the Gates in Gainsville remains to be seen. That's going to require a tremendous amount of turn around in one year.
The Lizards, especially their offense, just looked kind of bored and unfocused against us in Tally this year.
It could have been a lot worse if they brought their A game.
Lets win the ACC first, then we'll worry about the Lizards.
MBclemson1981 said:
posted on January 18, 2007 3:53 PM — 74.242.87.164 — link — abuse?
ill tell you now all these changes i see FSU stru-gl-ing next season, but in a year or so with those traditional late recruiting season signes FSU will be back at the top of the ACC, but with a little competition from my tigers;)
PopsMich said:
posted on January 18, 2007 7:24 PM — 71.77.24.80 — link — abuse?
FSU was tough to gauge this year. I never thought anyone, never mind Wake, would beat 'em down 30+ to zip at home.
They played tough in those last 2 games, have a young team, and seem VERY serious with these coaching changes.
Gonna be interesting to watch, especially when the go to Raleigh this year (I think NC State is home this year).
fsu.fan said:
posted on January 18, 2007 7:55 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Lets not forget. Yes, record wise FSU was not impressive in any way what-so-ever. Six losses will make any fan cring. However, with the exception of the Wake Forrest game, FSU lost the other 5 games by a TD or less - including to the NC gators. So they lost 5 games they could and probably should have won. It was a very young team that didnt know how to close out games, added with an inept coaching staff. Now the coaching staff may be the best in the nation, the kids have a year under their belt. I'd expect a huge difference next year.
FEAR THE SPEAR!
Renegade07 said:
posted on January 18, 2007 8:29 PM — 216.220.208.123 — link — abuse?
With all these sudden changes and the totally revamped offensive staff I think Florida States futures looks extremely bright! But as far as us winning the NC next year I don't think were there just yet. The talent is obviously there (and for those of you who don't think it is your IDIOTS, STUPID, NO NOTHING ABOUT TALENT!!!) But it takes a bit of time to adapt to a totally new system, while the defense will be great again as usual the offense will be better but not at its full potential. Come 2008, 2009 though the country better watch out. We'll have a QB with a year in the system under his belt and a year of coaching from Jimbo, we'll be fine and preseason top five. With all these changes on Offense that wasn't our only problem, our special teams was harendous! That also needs to change.
But I think we did a great job assembling the staff and with the lost of Steele I thought we were in trouble but I think Chuck will be fine. His schemeing with "The Mick" will be great. And as far as his recruiting ability I heard he's great at is as was Steele especially in South Florida which we have seem to loose out in the past few years. I don't know personally but I know at NC State his talent level wasn't that high so we'll see but the addition to him to our staff was key and now we have everything in place and will only be a matter of time before we're back on top (three years top) and recruiting ever kid in the world like we use to and putting fear back in to the hearts of teams around the country.
Let the Warchants begin....Gatorpilot said:
posted on January 19, 2007 12:07 AM — 4.88.28.99 — link — abuse?
Do you smell haters... ? No, most likely you smell the stench of a 7-6 season which came daaaaaaamn close to being 6-7.
Yeah, Florida won by a TD. Yeah, our kicker had an awful game, missing 2 of 2. Yeah, as usual, FSU played inspired when UF came to visit -- a Gator win in Doak-Campbell is always hard. (Although I note that the Gators are 2-0 on Bobby Bowden Field, where only Gators get out alive.) Yeah, FLORIDA WON for the fourth time in a row. (Swindle in the Swamp will not be forgotten... YOU HEAR ME, CHILDRESS?)
But the fact that FSU fans take solace in the fact that they lost by a respectable margin shows how far FSU football has fallen. Florida State fans actually seemed pretty happy with that loss. WOW! Let's be honest, despite the staff improvements this is a team which has flat out sucked, steadily declining year after year in the 21st century. Do I think the coaching changes will help? Certainly... and that's good for Florida, who needs FSU to be a reasonably competitive foe. FSU's lowly perch on the totem pole nearly cost Florida their 2006 national championship.
Here's hoping that FSU will find the inside of the Top 25 in 2007.
NOTaNOLE said:
posted on January 19, 2007 5:03 AM — 24.170.134.145 — link — abuse?
Gator pilot...... Perfect!! I love the fact these guys have hope, last season sucked when you couldn't find one semenhole willing to argue over the upcoming game. And other than our first national championship BLOWOUT, when does that game not turn into a battle year after year? These guys have actually beat UscuM at being the first team to forget about how bad they were last year and predict some idiotic revelation about what's in the future. Seriously, these guys are sophmores, juniors and seniors that only know one thing...SUCKING! Sure the new coaching staff will help build this team back to a contender in time, but you guys are dreaming to think you won't be wooped over the next three years by UF. Six in a row, wow that's never happened in this matchup. Man we love setting records. And UF over FSWHO by 7 in Antarctica is a whoopin whether you like it or not. Bet you our rings are nicer than yours! Emerald Bowl....He! He! But I'm atleast glad to see Kevin back in there rooting for his ole team again. Kind of missed your subtle smack!!! Don't miss that Mike Boone though, What a one sided freak!
Scott said:
posted on January 19, 2007 6:39 AM — 205.188.116.133 — link — abuse?
I am not saying the loss to the gators was a good loss. I was pissed when the game was over. I never want to get to a point where we say "Well at least we played a good game." But don't spout off that it wasn't a game.
Like fsu.fsu said we lost 5 games by 7 or less points. That is with playing 17 true or redshirt freshmen. When these kids learn how to be great players with the coaches we have now. Eveyone better watch out.
I am not saying we will win the NC this year. I will be surprised if we don't finsh in the top ten. And yes that isn't like FSU to not to expect a NC, but we are rebuilding. We had the players, now we got the coaches that can coach them up.
If you will remember back to the Zook years. Yall had the talent but for some reason couldn't get it done. He gets fired and yall get a new coaching staff and you look alot better off. That is what we are trying to do here. No major changes on defense b/c they were and will be fine. Our offense sucked, so we upgraded.
The great thing about Amato coming. He gameplanned against us a beat us more than he lost. So he can come in and say, this what I saw and exploited. And Mickey can correct those. To me that is the biggest upside to him coming back. That an recruiting.
gatorader said:
posted on January 19, 2007 9:30 AM — 64.252.53.126 — link — abuse?
Now the only staff change you need to make is that old geezer you've got at the helm!
After your last season, I'd say HANG HIM HIGH!And you didn't give the Gators the game. The Gators gave you a chance, and you couldn't handle it!
Joe said:
posted on January 19, 2007 10:29 AM — 65.32.170.228 — link — abuse?
Personally, I saw no difference between the gator game and every other game FSU played last season.
I guess one could be of the opinion that the gators didn't bring their A game but after watching the gators throughout the season, I noticed very little difference in their performance. Just like many other games throughout the season the gators played just well enough to win. Just as the Seminoles played just bad enough to lose except for Wake Forest.
The only time that UF really shined against a quality team was the game with Ohio State. Probably more due to Ohio State having more than 7 weeks off before playing the game. I do believe the gators actually played 2 additional games after Ohio State finished their season. OSU played their last game on the 18th of November Florida played FSU on the 25th and Dec 2. I do believe that made a difference because Ohio State looked more like Western Carolina than a team that had won 12 straight regular season games in a row.
That being said how FSU will do will depend on many factors... Could be as gator fans opine that FSU will be terrible and the team will only get worse... That sounds like wishful hoping since FSU even in a down year was only 7 points less than the MNC gators. On the other hand, it would be far too optimistic to state FSU will contend for the MNC next season. As an FSU fan I think they will be improved greatly with possibly mistakes by the New Offense being the biggest handicap.TampaGator said:
posted on January 19, 2007 10:57 AM — 152.163.100.196 — link — abuse?
NotaNole:
Well said. FSU fans were uncharacteristically nice last year, like puppy dogs lying on their backs ("...please have mercy on me!")
Nolen99:
You "almost" won? 10 of 14 teams we played this year could brag about that. What's that get ya? B/t/w, you should'a heard the SH#T y'all were talking that 3rd Qtr!!! First time all year I heard 'noles acting like 'noles (ie.--assholes).
Renegade07:
Props for a sweet handle. You're right--'noles have a lot of talent, so they should be good. I think we could be looking at a helluva showdown in the Swamp this year, reminiscent of the mid '90's....but I still prefer our chances.
I love it when 'noles get all confident. The fall...the figurative face plant of the ego...simply beautiful!!!
GO GATORS!!
P.S.--"The tits", not "the Chest"; Chuck needs a man-bra like Joke-Campbell needed that brick facade!
clemson1981 said:
posted on January 19, 2007 4:12 PM — 74.242.87.164 — link — abuse?
andrews is not next in line when bowden goes he goes, thats life, andrews is old too, so its either going to be one of the three that follow:
Jimbo Fisher-he has time but time will tell if he really could be a legit guy for the FSU job after papa nole.Chuck Amato-the odds on favorite, been at FSU for a while, a former HC, loves it down there, and if he becomes the HC, and does well, NCS fans will be screaming WHY OH WHY?
Tommy Bowden- The bowden name is Florida State Football, now terry is an analylist who will never coach again, steve well hes a crook, and jeff well lets say jeff wont be welcomed back to the FSU community anytime soon, tommy is a coach now he should not be the favorite to get this job, but if papa nole has any last words to TKW after retirement, you can gurantee that tommy will be on that list.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on January 19, 2007 7:18 PM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
FSU is in for a long, hellish spell with Urban Meyer at the helm in Gainesville. C'mon, guy comes in, routs FSU in his first year, is 6-0 against Florida's rivals, doesn't lose a home game, goes 13-1 in his second year, wins the SEC and the freaking NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP?
He is the best. Period. FSU fans had better keep praying for a miracle. It will take one to usurp Florida from the throne.
Scott said:
posted on January 19, 2007 7:53 PM — 205.188.116.133 — link — abuse?
Gatorpilot
So you say Myer is the best. PERIOD. I belive a few years ago yall were saying the same thing about some guy named Spurier. I can't quote his record against FSU. But I will say it was not the best. PERIOD. Myer came in at the right time. Lets see this year when he has to replace quite a few starters while FSU lost 5-6. And a new coaching staff to coach up these very youg players. So enjoy it wile you can b/c it has been a while since you can boast over FSU like this. Your time is ticking down very quick.
Jon said:
posted on January 19, 2007 9:32 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
Gatorpilot -- We shall see.
I'll give you that he did look good vs. Ohio State and an idiot D-Cord who refused to adjust a soft zone that Florida was picking apart.
Even though Gators had an unbelievable defensive line and a pretty decent QB (who you will realize was underrated when Teebow gets to start), they still did not strike me as a team being coached to the best of their abilities. Through out the year, it seemed like he became far too conservative with a lead. And at times, the play calling wasn't logical.
Lets wait and see how long it takes him to realize Teebow is useless... and starts Cameron Newton.
If he realizes it before the first game of the season, he will go higher on my list...
(Remember who told you)
fsu.fan said:
posted on January 19, 2007 10:00 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
I have respect for what Meyer has done in a short time - and the fact Florida won the "title." With that said, gator fans shouldnt get too carried away here. This point has been made several times but the funniest part is - no gator fan wants to address it...
Florida BARELY and I mean BARELY won 4 or 5 games - if not more. They struggled with VANDY. If not for someone on the Florida team with a freakishly long ring finger; they would have lost to S. Carolina - 3 blocked field goals, get real. Not to mention a team they own more than anyone (uga) almost beat them with a true freshman QB (while UGA had their worst year ever under Richt). Then vs their arch in-state rival, a team with more starting freshmen than any team in D1 - guess what? Dispite the fact FSU tried to gift wrap the game. The older more veteran Gator team showed no ability what-so-ever so close out a big game. Dont try to give me this BS about trying to give FSU a chance to win - Florida was in the NC race, yet they showed no killer instinct.
The only "impressive" win they had all year (not counting D2 schools) was in the NC game - against an OSU team that had more layoff before the game then the Great Depression. We wont even mention the fact the guy who ran the opening kick back for a TD didnt even play after that.
So yes. Florida won the national title. But dont get carried away thinking suddenly UF the greatest team of all time. Timmy boy is a sophmore next year. No one even knows how well he can read a D, make the right types of throws, all we know is he can run.
Enjoy your bit of glory while it lasts gators but try to be some what realistic - UF is very, very beatable.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on January 20, 2007 10:47 PM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
fsu.fsu: Let's get something straight. When a team has to attempt an on-sides kick late in the game for a chance to get the ball back, score, and win, it wasn't that close of a game. Besides, who cares if it was close... their final 13-1 record (same as Ohio State) was earned playing the toughest schedule in the nation, dealing with a quarterback who didn't fit Meyer's system, and a kicker who couldn't make 30-yard field goals. Suffice it to say the coaching was amazing (and so was the defense.)
Meanwhile, FSU was blown out 30-0 by Wake Forest at home, and lost six games in the ACC, which was one of the weakest conferences in the NCAA last year. (And it was definitely the weakest BCS conference.) The "delta," as they call it, is pretty high between Florida and FSU right now when it comes to football. FSU has a long way to climb.
Joe said:
posted on January 21, 2007 2:29 AM — 65.32.170.228 — link — abuse?
Truthfully, this is the first time in UF history that they truly came claim not only a MNC but at least for one year that they are far better than UM ( who they avoid playing) and FSU.
Their "woofing" and "bragging" that they are the greatest and best in the history of CFB is not the least unexpected, nor is their prediction that FSU and Miami will be perpetually in the gutter from now on. For once gators won't have to say wait til next year. Who knows they keep this up and one day they may make the College Football Hall of Fame as a dynasty like Miami and FSU.
After all they are gator fans! Even when they weren't winning they always claim they are the best.
fsu.fan said:
posted on January 21, 2007 10:57 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Gatorpilot. Dont get me wrong. I'm not saying UF didnt have a nice year. Clearly they did. Going 13-1 in the SEC is impressive on paper. But dont give me this junk about onside kicks and it not being a close game. The only thing that matters is the score board and it says it was a close game. It SHOULD have been a blow-out. FSU SHOULD have been killed, they werent. All I'm saying is: 12 reg season games UF wasnt overly impressive. The SEC championship game they wernt impressive either. They were being DOMINATED by ark in the second half. UF couldnt even get a first down in the second half and they were losing, on top of that they couldnt stop ark's offense. The entire game changed when an idiot ark player screwed up a punt and tried to catch it OVER HIS HEAD while it was inside his own 10 and UF recovered it for a touchdown. After that momentum changed and the gators rolled - if not for that idiot play who knows what might have been. The point is - the gators WON but they didnt DOMINATE.
Yes it's a NC team. Yes 13-1 is impressive on paper. Lets not get carried away though. This isnt a 95 Neb team that BEAT people by an average of some 40 points a game. This isnt a dynasty football team. Maybe they will be. But not yet. After all, it's hard to build a dynasty in the SEC and despite FSU's appalling seasons the past several years it looks like the program is quickly on the rise (only time will tell). So, enjoy your NC because UF did win and earn it but like I said - they didnt DOMINATE all year and they dont strike fear in other teams like great teams of the past have - even USC the past several years.
Enjoy it but dont get too carried away.
fsu.fan said:
posted on January 21, 2007 3:24 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Actually. Most of what I've read is about how great the new coaching changes are. Most of what I've read is about the future of the FSU program and how good it looks. It's very easy for a UF fan to say FSU and Miami fans live in the past with UF's very recent success. Trust me, when the chips are down for UF their fans live in the past just as much as anyone. It's natural to reflect on the better times of the program - kinda like when UF fans kept talking of the glory days of good ole steve when Zook took over.
Luke said:
posted on January 21, 2007 9:24 PM — 24.250.217.142 — link — abuse?
I'm surprised that being a fsu fan you read anything. But that's besides the point, you are already proving yourself to be stupid by putting down a team that won a national championship just a couple weeks ago. I think it's better to win close games than to get shutout at home.
I'm glad you agreed that fsu "should have been killed." You fsu fans are finally getting in the right state of mind about your team. If you guys are happy losing by small margins that's fine by me. hopefully next season u guys can have a losing season but you'll be able to talk about those games you almost could have won..fsu.fan said:
posted on January 21, 2007 10:48 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Luke please spare me your lame attempts to insult me. It's really a joke. I'm here to debate sports topics like most people are. If you're here to make ignorant comments about how much other fans read or to try to insult the intelligence of people by calling them stupid - that's fine. Just leave me out of your childish actions so I can talk actual sports with an adult.
No I was not putting down Florida. I've given them their dues for winning the NC. I simply said they werent the most dominate team to ever step on a football field like some people are trying to make it sound like. Personally, I don't care about college football "national titles" regardless who wins them if there's no playoff system - but thats a whole other subject. Enjoy your national title, you won it and earned it. I've also never claimed FSU's season was better than UF's like you made it sound like I did. I never claimed or made it sound like FSU's season was great - it was appalling. Clearly winning close games is better than getting shut out, who's not agreeing with that? I was simply stating that FSU lost 5 games by only one score to prove a point that the team isnt far away from success and the new coaching staff should put us over the hump.
In summary. Luke, you're past two posts in this forum have been nothing but "insults" and cheap shots. If you ever decide to actually debate sports in an adult manner then direct a post toward me. I'd love to talk sport - not about weather rival fans read or if they are stupid. I love sports and respect other fans who also love sports, regardless of team. If you're going to try and make another attempt to "insult" me Luke then just dont waste your time or effort, I won't bother responding - it's not worth my time and again, not why I'm here.
Have and great day Luke and best of luck next year.
Diggs the Mountie said:
posted on January 21, 2007 10:50 PM — 68.48.90.248 — link — abuse?
Luke #46,
There you go, keep on goin brother, you keep making yourself look more like a jack-ass every time you post. Miami and FSU might have had less than stellar seasons the past couple of years, but with that said.... they're also not even close to being "has beens" or so called teams that "live in the past".Think about this .....FSU played in a National Title game in 2001, has had 8 BCS appearances and two out of those 8 they have won. Don't get me wrong their BCS record in that span is .250, but as far as has been goes?? Let's leave that honor to notre dame.... I mean c'mon....they have not even won a bowl game in 12 seasons, and are 0-9 in their last appearances in Bowl Games. Now that's the very definition of a "has been".
Diggs the Mountie said:
posted on January 21, 2007 11:05 PM — 68.48.90.248 — link — abuse?
Luke #46,
As for Miami, they played for the title in the 02'-03'season against Ohio St. and we all know that game was controversial at that. I'm not one for the coulda woulda shoulda crap..... Ohio St. won the game period.
From the '00 season to 03' season, Miami went to 4 BCS games and "WON" 3 of the 4. Fast forward 1 year to the 2004 Peach Bowl in which Miami the so called "has been" beats your boys up by the count of 27-10. Enjoy your moment in the sun for the moment.......but as for throwing out the ole "has been" title.......leave that one for notre dame. "0" Bowl wins the last "12" seasons and "9" Bowl Game losses in a row!!! There you have it, the Undisputed Champions of the "has beens". (We don't need a play-off to decide that one now do we)?
Blankchannelbob said:
posted on January 22, 2007 5:21 AM — 69.139.143.225 — link — abuse?
Odell Haggins, the DL coach, should be replaced.
Just look at Broderick Bunkley's production with Philadelphia in his first year. A recent article on the website, he described how much the NFL was an eye opener as far as technique. He struggled badly with poor technique and being a professional throughout his first year despite constantly being preached to him throughout.
Their line was poor giving up 200 yards a game on the ground many times thru the season and he still couldn't get on the field.
That does not show well for Haggins and what he is teaching or shall I say what he is not teaching.TampaGator said:
posted on January 22, 2007 9:18 AM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
FSU.FSU:/#41/49:
Just a couple of quick points: first, I agree with your resply about FSU/UM not living "...in the past". How I wish they were. UM and FSU have had serious OFFENSIVE problems in the past couple of years, but both of their defenses have remained respectable. FSU has made great strides this off season in addressing that issue; I'm not sure about Miami, though. I know they hired Randy Shannon, but I understand that they're having problems landing an OC.
2nd: I am huge UMeyer fan; I was salivating over the guy when he was at Utah, before UF canned Zook (you could never tell where the ball was with that Utah team). But I'll concede, Gators didn't win this year with his X's and O's; they won with talent and grit. As you pointed out, only in a hand full of games (OSU being one of them) were his X's and o's able to work.
That said, Meyer is man enough to back off of a faulty game plan, and alter it (contrast to Jeff Bowden, and Jim Tressel in the NC game). You said he doesn't get the best out of his players--I couldn't disagree more. Perhaps the execution of the game plan left room for improvement, but these Gators left no fight on the field--that's how they got to 13-1. Gators have always been loaded with talent; few coaches have ever been able to get the fight and the grit from the players to win those close games. That's bear-Bryant stuff. Dawgs used to own the Gators becasue they'd out fight us, show more grit. Same for FSU, and Miami. Not so under Meyer.
So I'll grant you, FSU is by no means a "has been" or washed up. FSU is still very much a force to be reckoned with; but with Meyer at the helm, you can count on this: when your 'noles, or anybody takes the field with the Gators--they're going to be in for one hell of a fight--and that's all I ever wanted from my Gators!
gatorstud said:
posted on January 22, 2007 10:13 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
hey joe..#44..do you even know what your talking about..
i really do not know how you can call fsu a dynasty....in my opinion, a team should win more that just two nat. titles to be considered a dynasty....i will give miami that distinction because of their title (5), but fsu....NO.....even though the gators have (2) NC...a dynasty they are not...but, it could be with the talent they have, coaching and players....it is all set up for a run like usc had....but, then again i though that when leak was recruited....i though we would get (2) with him at the helm of the offense....now, with the way his career went, i am thrilled we got one.....
now, i am a true blue gator fan, but i am also a fan of college football, and i know that miami and fsu will bounce back and bring their program back from their dismall seasons...the state of florida is still the hotbed for talent and miami and fsu will get good talent and will be back...
as for the fla-fsu game this year....i really thought that we should of beat them by more...but, then again it's fla-fsu...c'mon guys....this is a tough game....even when fsu was at its best during the nineties....florida was still a tough opponent at gainseville...so your "you should of beat us by more" comment doesn't hold water...
florida did not have a dominant season and yeah, there were a couple of game that were almost losses instead of wins...but then again there was a BS fumble call late in the auburn game that cost us a game....but, that's football....you have to live with the good...and the bad...college football has always had bad calls and close games that will be scrutinized... just ask oklahoma (oklahoma - oregon)...
i can guarantee you that if you ask any florida gator fan or player if they want to put miami back on the schedule, they will say yes....my philosophy on it is...you can't BE THE BEST, unless you
BEAT THE BEST.....so you can come on here and shout at the heavens if you want...it is not up to us fans who we play.....so get over it..i hope that fsu returns to glory...the fla-fsu game is one of my favorite games of the year.....and i would like it to get back to national title implications for both programs...then the game will mean a lot more....but until then..us gatorsget to walk around for the next year gloating about how good we are....and everyone else doesn't....how sweet it is....
to fsu.fan.....i like your posts...charcter isn't something a lot of people show in their posts...you get your point accross without being a putz...good luck to your team next year...
fsu.fan said:
posted on January 22, 2007 1:44 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Tampa #53.
I completely agree. While UF may not have blown every team out of the water myer did an amazing job with that team. He went 13-1 in the hardest conference in the nation (i'm tired of hearing about the big 10 - thier two best teams OSU, Mich respectively were blown out of their bowl games). Not only did he go 13-1 but he did it mostly with Zook's players. While Zook might not have been a great game day coach, he could recruit and bring in talent. UF was a talented team but didnt always fit in myers "system" but he made it work anyway.
With that said, I'm not sure what to expect from UF in the future. Obviously a very great program and a fast start by myer. Bob Stoops won the NC his very first year at OU (beating fsu sadly enough) and most people thought he'd own CF. Actually, stoops hasnt done much since - seems like Texas has the upper hand now. There's a chance myer might suffer the same way, after all there's no way to tell playing in the SEC. I'd imagine it'd be very hard for UF to have a run like USC being in the SEC and hopefully getting a little more competition from my noles in the near future. No doubt UF has been a serious NC contender and will continue to be. Best of luck UF (not that you really need it right now).
fsu.fan said:
posted on January 22, 2007 1:54 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
gatorstud #54.
Thank you for the kind words. I would say how ever that clearly FSU is not a dynasty now I'd lable them one in the 90's. UF could be on their way to being a dynasty again - I say again because I'd lable them a dynasty in the 90's as well.
The reason I'd concider the two programs both dynastys is because they both dominated college football.
On FSU's side they won two NC in the 90's (not the most ever in a decade by any means) but played in 5 of them (2-5 also isnt the best record). In my opinion NC in college football is a bit over rated. There's never been a great system to decide what two teams play. I think with a playoff at least more than two teams get a chance, but thats a whole another can of worms. Plus every year in the 90's FSU finished in the top 5 (also started in the top 5 i believe).
On UF's side they did win a NC in the 90's (you killed us for it). Lets face it though, UF plays in the SEC. In the past two systems it's been hard to go through an SEC schedule and get a NC shot - on top of the brutal conference you played FSU at the end of the year. Under Steve UF did win 6 SEC titles - that's very impressive.
Both programs have showed they can dominate college football. One is showing they could easily do it again. The jury is still out on the Noles. This coming season will be a big indication.
Best of luck to both programs going forward.
Joe said:
posted on January 22, 2007 2:43 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
Well gator stud??? Interesting moniker..
I suggest you visit the College Football Hall of Fame and see for yourself. Miami and FSU have both been designated College Football Dynasties. Florida has not. The basis for achieving such status is consistent winning over a long period of time. It is not measured much by the MNC's one acquires as they are not an official championship awarded by the NCAA.
Here is a part of the Hall Of Fames press release:
(notice this was even before FSU's wire to wire MNC)The College Football Hall of Fame unveiled its "Dozen Dynasties" exhibit Friday, January 7,1999 at the world-class sports museum in South Bend, Indiana.
Alabama, Florida State, Harvard, Miami (Florida), Minnesota, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Southern California, Texas and Yale are the schools represented in the exhibit honoring the 12 greatest dynasties in college football history.
Notre Dame and Oklahoma are the only schools recognized as achieving "dynasty" status in two different eras.
Back on topic:
What is truly amazing about all the recent hires is the immense respect the coaching fraternity has for Bobby Bowden. These excellent coaches came to FSU because of Bowden and his exemplary career of the highest ethics, honesty, loyalty, and integrity.
For a change it wasn't about the Money$$$!!! as these coaches could actually make better $$'s elsewhere. How refreshing!! It appears others recognize the quality of Bobby.
TampaGator said:
posted on January 23, 2007 10:43 AM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
Joe:
Great post; thank you for the leg work and for the authoritative research. Congratulations to FSU for that recognition. Hopefully the Gators will be able to add their names to that list someday.
The only exception I'd offer is directed to the latter part of your post. I'll concede the first part of your comment: there is no question that B.Bowden has earned and holds the respect of the coaching fraternity; they guy is a living legend. However, that respect is not based on "...the highest ethics, honesty...[and] integrity"; all of which have been questionable, and questioned continuously, throughout his career. His respect was earned plainly and simply through success on the field (perhaps even by cutting a few corners, but we'll just leave it at success on the field).
As for "Loyalty"--no one can question Bobby Bowden's loyalty to FSU or his family; hence I carved it out of my "exceptions".
Additionally--and this may be due to my cynicism- I don't think those coaches are taking jobs with Bowden out of benevolence or loyalty of their own. I believe there are more self-serving motives at work here--one of which I'd call "circling of the vultures"-i.e.-they're positioning themselves to succeed Bowden as captain of that sturdy vessel he built, believing that the end is near.
Another self-serving motive: FSU has a lot of upside going into this season. By taking a position with FSU's staff, they are almost assured of success for their resume, while insulating themselves from exposure to failure, by (continuing above analogy) being captains of less sea-worthy vessels. There are other motives I could lay out, but I’ll just leave it at that.
The bottom line--Bobby Bowden is a great football coach- easily one of top 5 all time based on overall success (along with the likes of Rockne, the Bear, and Paterno…). No one can take that away from him—on one is trying to. But let’s not get carried away by imputing saintly virtues to him, based only on that success; I can assure you, Bowden did not achieve his success by playing “nice-nice.” ….and I’d definitely be reluctant to read virtue into those assistant coaches taking jobs with Bowden; …just be glad you have a loaded staff, and hope it translates into success on the field!
Good luck next year ‘noles; we’ll see YOU in the Swamp!
GO GATORS!
gatorstud said:
posted on January 23, 2007 1:33 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
joe #57...if that is what it says..then kudos to fsu..i really do not understand how a team can go 2-5 in nat. champ. games and be considered a dynasty....now, during the 90's i know that fsu, fla., miami, nebraska, were the best teams in that decade...so if florida is singled out fo that group then, oh well....i know i do not need the college football hall of fame to tell me how good my gators are....three nat. title games in 11 years....won two.....along with a ton of sec titles.....i'd say that's pretty impressive....
as far as b. bowdens coaches....if you think that those coaches went there because the wanted to just be asst. coaches under bowden..then you are dillusional....those new coaches know that if bowden doesn't turn the program around and resigns in a couple of years they have a shot at being the next head coach there...so, your comment as i read it says:
"What is truly amazing about all the recent hires is the immense respect the coaching fraternity has for Bobby Bowden. These excellent coaches came to FSU because of Bowden and his exemplary career of the highest ethics, honesty, loyalty, and integrity."
is nothing but a fan pouring on sugar to make a sour situation, sweet...nice try, why don't you try clicking your heels three times and repeating.."there's no place like home"....but, then again...you lost games there too...
if you truly believe that those coaches went there just to work for b. bowden because of who he is then you are truly dillusional..."tampa gator" hit the nail on the head..they are there for themselves. i have a ton of respect for bowden for what he has done not just for fsu, to bring national championships to a school that was once an all girls school, but what he has done for college foobtall, truly amazing....but he better keep looking over his shoulders, cause there might be people behing him getting ready to push him off that ledge he has put himself on for the terrible seasons he has had there lately....good luck with that..as wellas next season....
and for all you gators out there that didn't catch that i'll repeat it....fsu was once an ALL GIRLS school......all us gator think it still is.....just pokin fun....
Joe said:
posted on January 24, 2007 5:52 AM — 65.32.170.228 — link — abuse?
tampa gator and and gator stud,
I most certainly can understand your cynicism towards Bowden and the values he espouses. I also am certain with all the churches that he speaks to that you also believe that is just for show. Is Bowden perfect? Of course not but once again have you ever heard him speak with such derogatory and cynical remarks as you do towards him? You are gator fans and Bowden is coach of the enemy in football. Your remarks are natural for the envious and jealous.
The USA Today had a headline a few years ago calling Bowden and Paterno "National Treasures"!
Obviously, they didn't consult you for that designation. Bowden and Paterno are truly rare gems in football.
You may have a point in that these coaches certainly are interested in advancement in their careers by working for the winningest coach in Division One history. However referring to them like vultures is a bit over the top.IMO
Fisher took a pay cut over what he would have made at LSU or Bama to work for Bowden. His exact quote: " Knowing that Coach Bowden is here and knowing that you can work under the winningest coach in college football, you can't pass that up."
As for being delusional, Bowden is never going to resign. The only way he will leave FSU is for health reasons. That simply is not going to change. The guy is a legend. It was a most difficult situation last season with his own son taking so much heat, but Jeff stepped up to the pump and made the best choice of a most difficult situation with the boosters out of respect for Bobby sweetening the pot for JB. Pure class IMO.What you to guys just don't understand is Bowden is not just about winning football games at FSU. Those that know him value him for his character and decency and the family values that he not only espouses but lives every day. Again he isn't close to being perfect. No man is but he most definately is admired by many.
I would agree that there most certainly are small group of ignorant and stupid FSU fans that lack the intellect to understand what the presence of Bowden means to FSU. However, those with a deeper understanding of the situation are thankfully in charge of the situation.Most certainly all coaches seek betterment in their careers and working for Bowden certainly is a most high point in one's resume'.
As for the "less sea worthy comment" that sounds pretty ridiculous in the face of the longevity of Bowden with FSU. One bad season does not a career make. Lest we forget FSU was in a BCS bowl in 2005!
Lots of changes have occurred from last season, and Bowden is becoming more of a CEO to the offense. He most obviously is giving his offensive generals more control.
It also appears that great players of the past are lining up to be there to continue the "Bowden way" when he finally is gone. See: Dawsey, Carter, and Haggins. Derrick Brooks is heavily involved and I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a role in the future.FSU and Miami had a hiccup last season and the gators are #1 for at least one season. I realize watching Miami and FSU dominate in football for so many seasons has been a bitter pill for UF fans to swallow hence the less than complimentary remarks towards Bowden and the program. Perfectly natural if not truly believable.
Speaking of instability wonder how long Meyer will be at UF given his history and ambition? Will UF be willing to offer that 5 Million dollar plus multiple year guaranteeed contract in the future to keep him?? I think such a scenario would define UF rather well in comparison to someone like Fisher taking a pay cut to work with Bobby.
Don't you agree??gatorstud said:
posted on January 24, 2007 9:59 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
there you go agoin joe......show me one thing i said derogatory about bowden.......you are such an idiot...i have chatted with fsu fans before but, and have always enjoyed it until now...the crap you spill out in your posts, is just that...crap....
fsu really deserved that bcs bid last year didn't they...everyone in the country knew that fsu didn't deserve to go a bcs game last year, with the record they had...so go ahead and toot your horn...and yes bowden and peterno are two of the greatest coaches ever....ever....and no-one should be able to tell them to retire....i never, in any of my posts have said otherwise.....so your accusations about me not respecting your coach, is without merit.....once again your dilerious.....and if you think all those new coaches are there for just there for the experience of working under bowden...and not there for possible head coach position.....once again...delusional.....
as for your "hiccup" of a year.....we had three of them with zook...and now we are back where we belong..on top...now who has the bitter pill to swallow...and on top of that our basketball program has a national champ. too....something fsu and miami fans will never see....ouch..that's gotta sting....
so i will raise my glass and make a toast to miami and fsu.....heres to you guys on the bottom lookin up at the gators.
aaahhhhh, it is a beautiful day.....the sky is a brilliant blue...and the sun is a bright orange....let us all say it together..."IT'S GREAT TO BE A FLORIDA GATOR"
and i hope you have the nuts to stay on this blog throughout next year....cause now i am really lookin forward to fsu coming to b. h. g. stadium next year.....can you say five in a row.....
TampaGator said:
posted on January 24, 2007 3:06 PM — 205.188.116.133 — link — abuse?
Joe/#60:
Points for clarification/rebuttal:
1. My comment about "...less sea worthy vessels" was directed to programs other than FSU; not to FSU (I referred to FSU as a "...sturdy vessel")Please re-read my comments to confirm.
2. My comments are clearly NOT born of "envy or jealousy". I yielded about as much respect as was owed to Bowden and FSU. Respect is significantly different from envy.
3. My comments were directed only to YOUR characterization of B.Bowden's "...highest ethics, honesty...[and] integrity". Please note that even the quote you sited for Jimbo Fisher pointed to Bowden's success ON THE FIELD ("...winningest coach.."); nothing said about "...the highest ethics, honesty...[and] integrity". Frankly, entertaining such notions would be dilusional--and more to point, open up a can of worms that neither you nor FSU would want opened.
4. Going to church--let alone speaking at churches (probably for a fee) hardly constitutes "...the highest ethics, honesty...[and] integrity", nor does it exhonerate one from prior indescretions (upon which I purposely declined to elaborate out of respect, and class).
You should really learn to take a compliment. I complimented your post, your coach, and your program. What the hell else would you have me do--join you in entertaining dillusions of sanctity?
We'll take this deeper if you want; I was simply "giving the devil his due" (no, I did not just call Bowden or FSU "the devil"; it's an expression, so settle down), and pointing out a couple of "exceptions" to your post.
The bottom line is this--the Bobby Bowden story is an excellent story as it is; no need to embelish it with fluff. Stick to the facts and save the mythicism for the kids...or we'll continue to call you out on it.
See y'all in the Swamp!
GO GATORS!!
Joe said:
posted on January 24, 2007 8:51 PM — 65.32.170.228 — link — abuse?
You guys don't care much for Bowden. That is quite obvious from both of your posts. I have no problem with that. Dripping sarcasm and smarmy remarks noted.
I would state that he is far better man than even a head coach. Certainly far better than both of you that wish to impugn his Integrity, loyalty, honesty, and decency.
I especially admire how he conducts himself in public. I find few in the public theatre that conduct themselves with such class and dignity. When have you read or heard Bowden cast a disparaging word towards anyone??? Understand I am not one to throw out such compliments easily towards any man.
I have never read or seen evidence of the tarnish you infer.
You inference is that Bowden lacks ethics, integrity, honesty and decency. I personally take offense to that.
Please elaborate.
He has always been about Family and Faith.
Disagree??
I see little embellishment from my remarks below.
My quote: "Again he isn't close to being perfect. No man is but he most definately is admired by many."
Is that embellishment?? WOW!!!If I misinterpreted your "Seaworthy " I apologize.
Delusions of sanctity, Idiot, Mythicism for kids, and indescretions??? Are you sure you aren't confusing Bowden with that staunch Tally gator fan the dear??? departed Republican Marty??
Please elaborate with links and facts.Yeh, those are not personal insults directed at myself and Bowden. Gee!! Could anyone not guess you were gator fans??? Why would a gator fan even be on a thread celebrating the fine hires for FSU?
Try being a little less transparent the next time.
I pointed out quite factually that these coaches took paycuts to coach at FSU and that is a strong reflection for wanting to work under Bowden.To that declaration I get a bunch of smarmy remarks proving rather well your insincerity on the whole topic.
Call me out all you like. We can compare FSU's and UF's history on matters of ethics and integrity anytime. Bring it on boys!! Sure you want to go there??
Gatorboy40 said:
posted on January 25, 2007 1:57 AM — 138.163.160.41 — link — abuse?
Nole1999 (post 20) I wonder what will be your excuse after next season.It won't happen that easy. I see that you get some satisfaction by (ALMOST) beating Florida. Remember, Larry Croker fired all his staff, at Miami after the 2005 season, and did worse the following season. So will you to, call for Bobby B to step down if your Noles have another diaster season. Florida nor there fans are a bit concerned about what the Noles are doing, or how they are doing it. Futhermore, I am sure that ANY change by the Noles, are welcomed by the fans at this point. When you fall so low, you can only go up. Good luck with your changes.
Joe said:
posted on January 25, 2007 10:53 AM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
Gatorboy 40,
You may be right and FSU will not improve with the new staff and perhaps be searching for reasons? Excuses?
You state:
"Florida nor their fans are a bit concerned about what the Noles are doing or how they are doing it."
That seems a rather questionable remark since here you are commenting on FSU coaching changes? Sounds like a pretty disingenuous statement to me.
I would suggest though your words claim differently, that gator fans very much care about the great changes made in the FSU staff, and are just putting on the usual gator "front" acting like they are not the least bit concerned while trying desperately to shake Nole fan's optimism and enthusiasm over the changes.Not unusual opposing fan's speak. In fact I would state that every gator on this thread has the same agenda. ie "Rain on the FSU parade."
Admittedly going so low as to only win 7 games and lose 6 with a bowl win is indeed extremely poor considering FSU's past 20 or so years.
However, as has been mentioned... except for the Wake Forest game.... if the ball had bounced a bit differently FSU could have won all the others, and almost have a UF like season. ;-)
FSU indeed does have talent and with the proper coaching, player growth, less injuries, and limited mistakes most surely can be right back in the hunt for a successful season next FALL. The schedule is indeed tougher though.
I would wish the gators good luck but as everyone knows gators don't need luck because they are always the best!! Right???? LOLTampaGator said:
posted on January 25, 2007 4:21 PM — 152.163.100.196 — link — abuse?
Joe:
"…Again he isn't close to being perfect. No man is but he most definately [sic] is admired by many.” Is that embellishment?? WOW!!!...”
--of course not; the “embellishment” to which I referred was your characterization of Bobby Bowden's “…exemplary career of the highest ethics, honesty...[and] integrity" (again carving out "loyalty")”—which I laid out pretty clearly in my prior post.
__________________________________________________"...You inference is that Bowden lacks ethics, integrity, honesty and decency. I personally take offense to that." [sic]
--You must offend easily. I stated my exceptions to YOUR CHARACTERIZATION of Bobby Bowden's CAREER being of "...the highest ethics, honesty...[and] integrity" (again carving out "loyalty").
You inferred that "...Bowden lacks ethics, integrity, honesty and decency" on your own.
__________________________________________________
So let us examine the following episodes under the standard you provided--"...the highest ethics, honesty...[and] integrity":1981: Criminoles I: Six FSU players arrested and charged with stealing TV’s, stereos and the like from Maas Bros; Bowden’s response? Boys will be boys.
--By "...the highest ethics, honesty...[and] integrity", did you mean—no accountability for the actions of one’s players?
1994: Criminoles II: Agents treated players to a $6,000 shopping spree at a Foot Locker store -- leading to the joke that FSU stands for "Free Shoes University." Five players were suspended as a result of the incident, causing FSU to spend $400,000 in attorneys’ fees to clear Bobby Bowden’s good name.
-- By "...the highest ethics, honesty...[and] integrity", did you mean "...the highest ethics, honesty...[and] integrity" money can buy?
1999—Peter Warrick and L. Coles were charged with theft. Bowden summarily dismissed Coles from the team, while only suspending Warrick for 2 games, for no apparent reason (other than Warrick was more valuable to the team).
--"...the highest ethics, honesty, loyalty, and integrity"…but only if you’re a really good player? [loyalty intentionally kept in this time].
2002: Adrian McPherson kicked off team for gambling—AFTER he implicated others in FSU program. Bowden doesn’t call police upon learning that his QB has run up an $8,000.00 gambling debt; instead, he institutes a half-assed investigation (three interviews and no written records) which conveniently focuses on, and singles out Adrian McPherson, rather than on several other players who were also allegedly involved.
--"...the highest ethics, honesty, loyalty, and integrity” …as long as it doesn’t reveal the truth? [again, “loyalty” intentionally kept in].
In 2001 game v. Florida, Bobby Bowden permitted Darnell Docket to play, notwithstanding the fact that he had been ejected from the preceding game against Clemson. Docket proceeded to twist Earnest Graham’s knee under pile, after the play; Bobby Bowden proceeds to impugn Graham as a liar, and label Steve Spurrier as a whiner--no punishment to Dockett."...the highest ethics, honesty...[and] integrity"…as long as it doesn’t jeopardize your chances of winning? ...and no matter who gets hurt?
__________________________________________________
I was content to yield to Bowden respect for his success on the field--in retrospect, I may have yielded more respect than he was due. How was that for transparency--clear enough for you?
GO GATORS!!!P.S. Read through slowly before posting reply...
P.P.S.—CORRECTION: although I printed “mythicism” in my prior post, I meant “mythology”—I was rushing because I had to make it to the neighboring county by 5:30.
Joe said:
posted on January 25, 2007 11:38 PM — 65.32.170.228 — link — abuse?
Tampa Gator:
Well you can’t state you weren’t warned. Why?? any gator fan chooses to turn over this rock never ceases to amaze me!!
1981: Criminoles I: Six FSU players arrested and charged with stealing TV’s, stereos and the like from Maas Bros; Bowden’s response? Boys will be boys.Yes, the old TV stealing episode from 1981. Funny, are you sure there was no disciplinary action taken? Please post a link to lack of any punishment for the crime.
Likewise please list NCAA actions taken against FSU for not dealing with the misbehavior properly.Shall we compare UF’s tawdry history from 1980- 1984??
UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA PLACED ON NCAA PROBATION
"Unfortunately, during the five-year period in which the violations occurred," continued Mr. Toner, "the football coaching staff operated unimpeded by any effort being exerted by the university's director of athletics or any other administrative authority at the university to assure control of the football program. Due to this fact, as well as the serious nature of many of the violations in this case, the Committee on Infractions and the Council considered this to be among the most serious infractions cases ever processed by the NCAA.”Most surely you jest trying to compare some bad student behavior as a smirch against Bowden’s integrity?? Geesh! Coming from the University of “HELL YES WE CHEAT” I find such charges hysterical!!
1994: Criminoles II: Agents treated players to a $6,000 shopping spree at a Foot Locker store -- leading to the joke that FSU stands for "Free Shoes University." Five players were suspended as a result of the incident, causing FSU to spend $400,000 in attorneys’ fees to clear Bobby Bowden’s good name.Again I ask for the NCAA action?? for this apparent most grevious agent action at a University. For the record FSU hired the NCAA’s best investigative team to go over the entire program. The result- No SANCTIONS! Care to peruse the gator sanctions over the Bowden tenure??.. Please list scholarships lost, Titles stripped, Post seasons missed, and of course coaches fired. LOL
Oh and while your at it shall we compare the Tank Black era at UF when about every star player on the gator roster was on the Tank Black payroll for over 2 years. Funny, You would think the UF administration would have thought something was fishy when Mo Collins RS Freshman was found taking agent money in the Fiesta Bowl. Yeppers!! UF really knows how to monitor such things and to think you have the unmitigated gall to mention “Free shoes U” get a grip Tampa Gator!! LOL
Oh and for your memory of not so long ago:
Fred Taylor - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Reidel Anthony - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Ike Hilliard- Dealings with agent Tank Black
Javon Kearse - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Jacquez Green - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Mike Peterson - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Reggie McGrew - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Johnny Rutledge - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Keith Council - Dealings with agent Tank Black
Tim Beauchamp - Dealings with agent Mike McDonald
Dock Pollard - Dealings with agent Mike McDonald
Mo Collins - Accepted cash from agent
Tony George - Family at Holiday Inn on agents credit cardCare to list how much punishment these fine gator players received from UF? I most distinctly remember Derrick Brooks punishment for the footlocker…
1999—Peter Warrick and L. Coles were charged with theft. Bowden summarily dismissed Coles from the team, while only suspending Warrick for 2 games, for no apparent reason (other than Warrick was more valuable to the team).
Coles ran out of chances. More importantly he lied about an agent trip. Warrick actually graduated from FSU, and most certainly was punished severely by both the criminal justice system and FSU. WOULD you Care to list all the games missed by equally felonious Derrick Gaffney??
Oh and since you again choose the subject of Boys behaving badly as somehow impugning Bobby Bowden’s integrity. Shall we compare with UF not so recent history of the same era?Thefts
Jabar Gaffney - Multi thefts of money and items
Reidel Anthony - Credit card fraud
Fred Taylor - Credit card fraud - some law books among other things
Ron Graddy - Multiple offenses including accessory armed Robbery, driving a getaway car
Doc Pollard - Multiple - Book theft - skipping classes
Jamie Richardson - Threw a deadly missile into a restaurant, aggravated battery (pool stick), credit card fraud
Damian Hill - Book theft
Pat Browning - DUI, Purse theft
Takeo Brown - Domestic Violence (slammed pregnant girlfriend), credit card fraudAssault
Derrick Corker - Domestic battery and criminal mischief
Dwight Edge - Aggravated Stalking, battery
Jamie Richardson - Threw a deadly missile into a restaurant, aggravated battery (pool stick), credit card fraud
Anthony Mitchel - Misdemeanor Battery
Ernie Badeaux - Battery, Battery
Johnie Church - Domestic Violence (assaulted wife)
Elijah Williams - Sexual Battery, obstructing an officer without violence, coercing witnesses to lieTakeo Brown - Domestic Violence (slammed pregnant girlfriend), credit card fraud
Tony Davis - Held girlfriend over the railing of her fourth-floor dormitory balcony and threatened to let her go
Aubrey Hill - Assault women
Darren Hambrick - Assault with deadly weapon
Anthony Riggins - Assault with deadly weapon
Willie Jackson - Attacked police officer at Gator GrowlDUI/Driving
Pat Browning - DUI, Purse stealer, theft
Ryan Kalich - DUI, crashed into an off-duty deputy
Ian Skinner - 15 Days jail - multiple driving infractionsDrugs
Gerard Warren - Marijuana possession
Ian Skinner - X
WeedoGuns
Zach Zedalis - Gun in dorm
(this list does not include the Gaffney and Respert incidents)
1999) Derrick Corker - Arrested for domestic battery and criminal mischief.
1999) Dwight Edge - Felony Stalking.
1999) Rod Graddy - Accessory Armed Robbery.
1998) Dwight Edge - Misdemeanor battery.
1998) Jamie Richardson - aggravated battery.
1997) Anothny Mitchell - misdemeanor battery.
1997) Ernie Badeaux - Assualt.
1997) Elijah Williams - Sexual assualt.
1996) Jamie Richardson - Charged with throwing a deadly missile into a restaurant.
1995) Ernie Badeaux - Charged with hitting someone in the back of the head.
1995) Johnie Church - Domestic violence.
1995) Teako Brown - Aggravated battery against his girlfriendPerhaps you can list all the stiff punishments UF dealt out for their “BAD BOYS”????
2002: Adrian McPherson kicked off team for gambling—AFTER he implicated others in FSU program. Bowden doesn’t call police upon learning that his QB has run up an $8,000.00 gambling debt; instead, he institutes a half-assed investigation (three interviews and no written records) which conveniently focuses on, and singles out Adrian McPherson, rather than on several other players who were also allegedly involved.
First of all Adrian McPherson was kicked off the team for lying to Coach Bowden about stealing and trying cash a forged check. Secondly AD was though charged with gambling was never convicted after a extensive Criminal investigation. Did he gamble? Could be but to state FSU should have prosecuted him for it is patently ridiculous. However I am glad you brought up “Gambling”. While AD was kicked off of FSU forever let us revisit the gators foray into such things. We could start with Teddy Dupay but heck lets just stick with Football…
Published on October 18, 1989, St. Petersburg TimesAnonymous tip alerted UF // Letter to Arnsparger told of Gators' bet
GAINESVILLE - An anonymous letter that University of Florida athletic director Bill Arnsparger received Friday tipped offschool officials that starting quarterback Kyle Morris and reserve quarterback Shane Matthews bet on college and professional football games.When confronted by Arnsparger on Sunday morning, Morris and Matthews admitted to making bets between $25 and $100 on football games that did not involve the Gators. Both players were declared ineligible.
--------------------------------------------------Published on February 21, 1990, St. Petersburg Times.
Teammates tell of big bets by suspended Gator Morris.
University of Florida quarterback Kyle Morris gambled up to $1,500 a week on college football and on at least one occasion listed a game involving the Gators on a betting slip, according to sworn statements by teammates filed Tuesday with the state attorney's office. .The testimony was given by UF freshmen quarterbacks Lex Smith and Donald Douglas, who shared hotel rooms whereMorris and reserve quarterback Shane Matthews placed illegal bets by telephone last fall with…..
-----------------------------------------------
Published on February 16, 1990, St. Petersburg Times.
Report: 2 more Gator players were gambling.
Two University of Florida football players who were not suspended from the Gators' football team during disciplinary actions for gambling last October made illegal bets with bookmakers, according to an investigative report released by the university Thursday.
Senior punter Hank Rone and senior placekicker John David Francis used the telephone to place illegal wagers on National Football League games, the report said.
Using the telephone to place bets is a first-degree….
--------------------And Hmmm? It appears all was forgiven for both Mathews and Morris as both were happily play for Spurrier the very next season!!
So lets see you bring up someone never even formerly charged with gambling at FSU????....
Unbelievable and Outragous! when compared with Players at UF that actually were admitted gamblers and not only that a couple remained on the team anyhow while the others made it right back the next season!!
In 2001 game v. Florida, Bobby Bowden permitted Darnell Docket to play, notwithstanding the fact that he had been ejected from the preceding game against Clemson. Docket proceeded to twist Earnest Graham’s knee under pile, after the play; Bobby Bowden proceeds to impugn Graham as a liar, and label Steve Spurrier as a whiner--no punishment to Dockett.This undoubtedly is the silliest claim of all. Absolutely ridiculous! Was there even a penalty on the play??
Oh and since you seem to be really into this “Bad Boy” stuff Care to explain this under Zooker?
Reid Fleming: arrested for underage possession of alcoholAlex Kish: arrested for possession of marijuana and drug parapernalia
Kelvin Kight: arrested for open container and underage possession of alcohol
Sylvester McGrew: arrested for underage possesson of alcohol
Mo Mitchell: arrested for open container, charged with eight misdemeanor counts of criminal mischief for ripping mirrors off cars
Bryan Savelio: involved in domestic incident with his wife
Brian Crum: charged with eight misdemeanor counts of criminal mischief w/ Mitchell
Reggie Lewis: battered a coach of Wolfson High School
Taurean Charles: charged with battery of UF student for slamming her on a bed, a desk, against a wall, and onto the floor
Dallas Baker: charged with stealing a bike
Channing Crowder: charged with eight misdemeanor counts of criminal mischief w/ Mitchell, arrested for aggravated battery, arrested for disorderly conduct
Steven Harris: arrested for aggravated battery
Jarvis Herring: arrested for resisting arrest
Joe Cohen: arrested for disorderly conduct and criminal mischief
And of course it wouldn’t be complete without revisiting the “tight ship” Meyer is now running at UF. Should we discuss Marcus Thomas and his on again ( tough teams) off again ( weak teams playing time this season? Or perhaps the Avery Atkins saga? Is girlfriend abuse endemic at UF?? Wasn't there even more gun shooting last season??Gator fans you gotta love em!!
Why they go to this area is absolutely amazing considering UF’s "Sordid and Sullied" past on such matters!!
I leave with you with Coach Trickett’s remarks…
Pay attention:
“COACH BOWDEN IS A MAN OF INTEGRITY AND MAN OF CHARACTER”
Now again I ask whom should I believe???? ROFLMAO!!
Joe said:
posted on January 26, 2007 8:44 AM — 65.32.170.228 — link — abuse?
Slight Mistake in last post!
Should have read the felonious Jabbar Gaffney!
His brother Derrick and Family obviously took care of his room in and board along with other gator boosters when Steve Spurrier issued his Harsh?? penalty on Jabbar after his theft of valuables at Benny Hill during high school playoffs. Heaven Forbid! that Gaffney should actually miss games... HECK NO!! Not when you are the "BEST" receiver on the team!!For the record: Peter Warrick sat for the Miami game... You know! the team that UF annually avoids playing... LOL
And these gator fans wish to impugn the integrity character honesty and decency of Bobby Bowden!! Absolutely outragous!!
They should be ashamed of themselves!!!gatorstud said:
posted on January 26, 2007 10:05 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
poor joe....wow for someone who doesn't like the gators...you sure do know a lot about them....
now i see that you listed all the gators problems....and it is a long list.......now, i am sure that tampa gator didn't get all the athletic problems at fsu, i am quite sure there were more than he wrote about....so in all fairness, if your gonna compare the two football programs in that light the why don't you write back with ALL fsu athletic indescretions...and i mean ALL of them and then we'll compare the two...
all tampa gator was doin was disputing your claim that bobby bowden is a saint...he is not....i am sure he has bent the rules once or twice while he been there....and if you think he hasn't then you are one very sad individual who has no grasp on reality
i sure as hell will not say that florida hasn't had its problems with players, coaches, and administators......all universities have had problems in that area.....even yours.....and the only reason i am on here, is that you keep saying stupid stuff....apparently you havn't notice no other fsu fans on here talking trash like you.....maybe you should take that as a hint....hhhmmm
and, oh yeah...i have seen the acc schedule....good luck winning 7 games next year.....lol
TampaGator said:
posted on January 26, 2007 10:10 AM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
Joe:
You’re obviously obsessed with UF football program; thank you for your interest.
I never claimed that UF has run a squeaky clean program—this is about your claim of Bowden’s “…exemplary career of the highest ethics, honesty, loyalty, and integrity.”
Your defenses to the incidents I cited were weak—and those were a mere sampling of incidents off the top of my head (the only research I invested in the post was to confirm a couple of years that I may have been confused about—in fact, even after I posted, I realized that Criminoles II was the Peter Warrick affair, which I confused with Free Shoes matter…..whatever).
Your comparison of Bowden’s tenure to those of UF coaches who were fired precisely due to failures/shortcomings in the character department…pretty much seals my case.
By comparing Bowden’s career to the tenure of Charlie Pell, Galen Hall and Ron Zook, you pretty much make it clear that his career must not be of “…the highest ethics, honesty, loyalty, and integrity.”
Thanks for playing.GO GATORS.
gatorstud said:
posted on January 26, 2007 2:11 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
here are some that tampa gator didn't mention about the 2000 national champion criminoles...
Following off-the-field events involving players from the 1999 season, the 2000 squad has firmly planted Free Shoes U atop Mount Tarnish for a second consecutive year. Take, for example, lineman David Warren's September arrest for allegedly pushing his girlfriend to the ground, or All-American safety Derrick Gibson's August incident, in which he is said to have offered an undercover police officer $10 for sex. There was also 2000 graduate and Oakland Raiders' number one draft pick Sebastian Janikowski, who was reportedly picked up outside a Tallahassee night club with the date rape drug GHB. And let's not forget backup quarterback Marcus Outzen, who was charged with simple battery for reportedly fighting with his off-campus neighbors.
According to head coach Bobby Bowden, "I think one of the most misused conceptions in college football is the 'suspension thing'…Suspending doesn't hurt (them) at all. It hurts your team." Bowden's preferred remedy: Making players run the stadium stairs. Perhaps that's why FSU is such a dominant team….
and that was a quote right from big bobbys mouth...
soooo joe.....wht u got know.....you just can't admit that bobby bowden does cheat....which doesn't surprise me.....they way you talk about him, i am sure you are on you knees in front of him now.....
too funny...janikowski gets caught w/ a date rape drug and isn't even out for one game.......oh...how proud you must be joe...ha..ha..ha
clemson1981 said:
posted on January 26, 2007 3:58 PM — 72.155.183.249 — link — abuse?
all you GATOR and FSU fans:
i know yall have a good rivalry and all,but this whole bombardment of telling eachothers past history of trouble proves nothing to one another. everybody knows of the criminoles and very little people know of floridas troubles, including myself but ive heard of them. now what happened happened, and everybody knows, telling people about it constantly wont help change it, its always there. just one mans opinion, hope the best to both of yall next year.
GO TIGERS!!!TampaGator said:
posted on January 26, 2007 4:09 PM — 152.163.100.196 — link — abuse?
Joe:
First, I never claimed that UF has run a squeaky clean program—I’m all too aware of UF’s sanctions handed down by the NCAA, and of the lack of discipline under the Zooker’s reign (although thank you again for the leg work/research; it’s good to have all the dirt in one neat collection). I only took exception to your claim of Bowden’s “…exemplary career of the highest ethics, honesty, loyalty, and integrity.”
Now, after you've finished picking your self up off the ground and wiping the drivel off your chin, you may want to take a step back, and realize what you actually accomplished, as opposed to what you think you accomplished.
Your defenses to the incidents I cited were pretty weak—and those were a mere sampling of incidents off the top of my head (the only “research” I invested in the post was to confirm a couple of years that I may have been confused about—in fact, even after I posted, I realized that Criminoles II was the Peter Warrick affair, which I confused with Free Shoes matter…..whatever).
Moreover, in your zeal to post all of that UF dirt, you managed to undermine your own cause more than advancing it—and even showed less respect for Coach Bowden than I, in my original posts--you may recall I listed him along with the likes of Paterno, the Bear, Rockne…. You instead compared Bowden’s career to the tenure of Charlie Pell, Galen Hall and Ron Zook…UF coaches who were fired precisely due to failures/shortcomings in the character department(although Zook canned after MSU game, his fate was sealed prior thereto as a result of athletes constantly getting into trouble).
In any event, your post shows that Bowden’s tenure is more comparable to Pell’s, Hall’s, and Zooks, than Paterno’s, Rockne’s or the Bear’s. Bowden’s career then, clearly mustn’t be of “…the highest ethics, honesty, loyalty, and integrity”.
Thanks for playing.
GO GATORS!!TampaGator said:
posted on January 26, 2007 4:38 PM — 152.163.100.196 — link — abuse?
NOTE re. double post:
I submitted first post in the morning; I came back and checked in afternoon and it appeared that it had not posted, so I re-submitted it (with some fine tuning); hence the double post on same matter.
Joe said:
posted on January 26, 2007 4:42 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
If you will point to just one example of Bowden cheating??? His character has always been exemplary. He is honest, loyal, promotes family values, and as always exhibited decency towards others throughout his career.
That "bad boys" list was a point of reference to Tampa gator's silly post.
Here is the DEAL... UNDER BOWDEN's Watch not a single serious sanction has been levied by the NCAA. That points to an extremely clean and pristine program despite your gator claims otherwise.As to the trash talk is again a point of reference on how the programs discipline their problem athletes. There is no comparison!!
Bowden and FSU have had far more stringent policies adhered towards their student athletes than UF and it has nothing to do with more grevious problems.
When was the last "Star" athlete kicked off of Florida?
When was the last "star" Student? Athlete for UF suspended for bad academics?
Other than suspensions for the 2 (now 3)- "Lil sisters of the poor" what other tough games has UF suspended players?
Oh there are a few, but it is miniscule compared to FSU. Yet FSU is referred to as Criminoles??
Janakowski??? First of all the incident you mentioned was after he was no longer enrolled at FSU... On top of that he was found innocent after a court trial. Not that would keep you from stating his guilt.. Geesh!
Bowden most certainly doesn't suspend them all and indeed some do run stadium steps for minor issues or lesser issues or charges. Common Sense prevails.
Bowden indeed isn't perfect but he has always run the tightest ship in the state of Florida. There is no disputing this. So quit your smarmy and silly remarks gator fans!!----------------------
This thread is about great FSU coaching hires. Why in the heck are you here?? Did you get lost???
As stated above there is not a single gator fan that is here to compliment FSU on its great hires of assistant coaches. Just here to rain on the parade. Sad!! One truly has to wonder why Gator fans are so insecure???fsu.fan said:
posted on January 26, 2007 6:55 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Ok.
Stop with the crap.
No programs is perfect - WE KNOW (look at USC right now).
We also know BOTH programs have had their issues - EQUALLY.
Lets talk FOOTBALL - leave the "criminal" and "illegal" crap to court tv or judge judy.
Joe said:
posted on January 26, 2007 8:26 PM — 65.32.170.228 — link — abuse?
fsu.fan,
Of course no program is perfect, but there is no way in Hell!! FSU has ever been equal concerning the way both programs have been run and the way they have been dealt with by:
1. The media in the state of Florida in dealing with both programs.
2. The SA of each district: Meggs vs Cervone in their dealing with those "issues".
3. The influence the boosters have had towards both programs.
4. The way each others administration has dealt with the other.
5. The way each program has been run.
6. What both programs have accomplished in Division One CFB.
Looking at the FACTUAL record there simply is no comparison. Not to get off on a tangent but it is precisely your "Perception" of both programs that shows a total lack of knowledge of both programs and their histories.================================================
Back to the original thread:
FSU fans are filled with optimism with the new coaching hires. It is impossible not to be extremely excited for the future of FSU football as the Program has been totally revitalized. Which brings me back to the point why? there are gator fans on this thread.
Gator fans everywhere are rejoicing over the cinderella season just completed as they just won their 2nd MNC in Division One. They have every reason to be ecstatic.
However, the incredibly exciting FSU coaching hires has stolen some of their "thunder" and that is why they are here. They aren't on this thread to praise FSU!!
They are here for one purpose:
Stifle any enthusiasm and optimism FSU fans have for FSU's exciting future.
They are here to put FSU and its fans down.
fsu.fan,
I suggest you review all the gator comments on this thread and if you don't see the "Agenda" you are obviously blind.fsu.fan said:
posted on January 27, 2007 11:29 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Joe,
I am aware of the "agenda" thank you. I've noticed that not only on this thread but also on the fisher thread what's happening. I've noticed Gator fans swarming like flies on a pile of crap - keeping their eye on the FSU program and where it's headed. That's understandable. FSU is makin BIG TIME moves to become a big time player in CF again. Yes, they have been trying to down play things. I suspect if the situations were reversed we'd probably doing the same thing. Each side loves their school. Period.
At the same time FSU fans (myself included) has tried to bring down the glory of UF's NC. People (myself included again) have talked about the games the Gators COULD and maybe even SHOULD have lost - they didnt. People (myself included) have talked about how OSU had the long lay off and werent ready to compete. People (myself included) have tried to negate the validity of the Gators NC. Why? Because I love the Noles and dont like to see the gators win NC while we finish 7-6; its sickening.
At the same time. Gator fans deep down (weather they admit it or not) DO like seeing the FSU program down from what it used to be. They may not want FSU to become Duke because that would take away from the rivalry and their strength of schedule, but I believe they'd want FSU to stay a notch or two below them. However, FSU has made AWESOME changes to drastically improve the program. They cant like that, its understandable.
Most of the time, if it's "great to be a florida gator" than it's bad for FSU. Goes the other way too, if it's great to be part of SEMINOLE NATION than it's not so great to be a gator. Usually means one school is having success at the others expense. As of right now. It's great for both side. UF just won the NC in both major college sports. On FSU's side the program has made GREAT strides to get back on top, the future is very exciting. Both sides are trying to make the others recent success and improvements look bad.
Last year is last year. All that matters is NEXT year. Lets cut the crap and talk about things happening NOW and things TO COME.
FEAR THE SPEAR!!!
gatorstud said:
posted on January 27, 2007 1:45 PM — 71.114.217.67 — link — abuse?
fsu.fan...as for me...i love the FLA-FSU rivalry....and what has made it such a big rivalry during the nineties was the fact that national championship implications were involved most of the time...
i do hope that the coaching changes they have made there get you back where you were....the rivalry is at it's best when both teams are doing well....it seems fitting that at the end of the season they meet....it's not a conference game...its not an out of conf. panzy game.....its an in-state, brother against brother, neighbor aganst neighbor, hard fought big time national game....
i was not attacking your program......i was just trying to get accross to "joe" that every football program has its skeletons hiding...even fsu....i have the utmost respect for bowden and his accomplishments, not just as a coach, but also as a father. i grew up in the state of florida (although i now live in indiana....job) and i have many fsu fans that i still keep i contact with and i let them know to not worry...fsu will be back....it will only make it better if you have a good record, when we beat you...lol
so good luck to fsu next year...and we will see you in late november...
TampaGator said:
posted on January 29, 2007 12:44 AM — 152.163.100.196 — link — abuse?
Joe/FSU.FAN:
Gentlemen: with all due respect, I believe you're being hypersensitive, if not paranoid. We (Gator fans) are not here with any "agenda"; we are simply enjoying a "friendly exchange" during the off season. You say we disrespected the 'noles? (Please review my posts--#’s 17,36, 58…between friendly jabs you will find the SUBSTANCE of my posts generally reads along these lines: “…FSU has clearly made some good moves this off-season…FSU NOT has-been/washed up…”); but frankly, that’s beside the real point.
Neither I—nor for the most part, any Gator--came here with any “agenda” other than simple entertainment. You bet we root against the 'noles--we recruit from the same finite talent pool--what's good for FSU is bad for UF, and vice versa. But that doesn't mean that I--or any FAN--comes into a freak'n message board expecting to make any kind of a real difference (what point therefore is there in pursuing an agenda?)--just taking some jabs, engaging our archrival in friendly discussion--nothing more, nothing less--that's what these forums are for (again, with all due respect, you truly ARE delusional, if you think posts on a blog thread will make any real difference).
What’s more, while it is good for UF to beat FSU (and vice versa) for recruiting--we all know that this rivalry is fueled by each other's greatness. If FSU (or UF) sucked, it would generate about as much excitement as UF-UCF; UM-USF; FSU-FAMU...
So complain all you want--but deep down inside, you know damn well that you love it that we're here--you know you love it that we gave you reason to expound on the reasons why you love FSU and hate UF; you know you love it that you got a few jabs in on your arch rival—even if it meant taking a few--to taste some of the passion generally reserved for football season...and you know damn well you wouldn't give two shits if USF/UCF Fan came in here talk'n smack about the 'noles....that passion is what college football is all about.
…and NOOOOOO, we’re not here pushing some secretive conspiratorial “agenda”—secretly trying to undermine FSU’s confidence, because we’re secretly afraid of the quality of FSU’s coaching hires (…can you get any sillier??? you should hear yourselves…)—we’re just here for cheap thrills.
See y'all in the Swamp!!!
GO GATORS!!!
Gatorboy40 said:
posted on January 29, 2007 2:34 AM — 138.163.160.41 — link — abuse?
To Joe (post 79) Now what on this earth would make you think that Florida fans are or would give a damn about what fsu does. I can not believe that you could dream up such HORSE SHIT. First of all the Gators lead the series, they have won the pasT three-four years, the Gators are in the best conference. FSU needs to concerned about Maryland, Boston College, and Wake Forest wax their asses 30-0. I won't name the other three maulings that they got from NONE ranked teams in the ACC. FSU really neds to be concerned about what approach they will have so that they can avoid being one of the bottom feeders in their conference.
Gatorboy 40 said:
posted on January 29, 2007 6:47 AM — 220.150.41.116 — link — abuse?
Joe (post 65) When i say that i am not the least bit concerned, I truely am not concerned. I was replying to Nolen 1999, who seem to think that all the Gator Fans are hating on FSU for their new coaching staff. Nolen1999 seem to get some satisfaction that the NC team (Florida) only beat them by a touchdown, (read post 20). He even stated (does that mean that fsu could have competed for the National Championship. WHAT AN IDIOT!!!! Does he have altimers or what. Did he forget that FSU got their asses Violated 30-0 by Wake Forest, and five more other beat downs that I want bother to mention. Now, I wonder if Nolen 1999 thinks that FSU should even be mention in the same sentence as any one of the NC teams. FSU could be 0-9, and they will still play the Gators tough. In State bragging rights. Look what happen to USC when they played UCLA. But that sure does not mean that they could compete for the NC. That was a stupid statment, by every sense of the word.
Gatorboy 40 said:
posted on January 29, 2007 7:19 AM — 220.150.41.116 — link — abuse?
FSU FAN (POST 45) What the hell do you mean that they, the gators did not dominate. They won, what more can you ask for. They beat people, even when they did not play their best, what does that tell you. Also, what is your point by saying that they played the toughest schedule,,(on paper). On paper,,it's a damn fact thatthey had the hardest schedule. At the time that the games were being played, they played 8 ranked teams, and 6 or more of them went to bowls. You keep saying 'ON PAPER', so from your point of view, are you saying that they did not have the hardst schedule in the Nation. Do you expect to win pretty when you play in a dog fight, and ranked teams week after week.
fsu.fan said:
posted on January 29, 2007 10:34 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
#85
No, what I was saying was some people were trying to make this Gator team the best of all time - or make it sound like they were. I believe I said, "Going 13-1 in the SEC is impressive on paper."
What I meant by that way going back and looking in the record books seeing 13-1 looks good, real good. I was never saying "only on paper" their schedule was tough. Clearly it was one of the hardest in the nation (you COULD make arguments for other teams) but surely a top 3 schedule. I was saying on paper their record is a little miss leading. Yes, the gators won and thats really the bottom line. I was only commenting they weren't the greatest football team in history. I meant no disrespect in any way to what the gators accomplished. It was a fantastic year - just not the greatest team ever like some people have made it sound.
TampaGator said:
posted on January 29, 2007 11:16 AM — 205.188.116.133 — link — abuse?
Gatorboy 40/Gatorstud, et.al.:
Shhhh...keep it on the low down-they're onto us....you're letting the cat out of the bag...the secret's out man...the gig is up...
...wait...did you hear that???....I swear some guys in black just broke into the building...quickly...terminate all files and memos.....
...abort mission!!!
Joe said:
posted on January 29, 2007 12:40 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
First, lets just get a few things straight.
FSU had a very disappointing season in 2006.
UF on the other hand had a unbelievable "Cinderella" storybook season that culminated in something even the most die-hard gator fan could never have predicted. Everything fell into place perfectly for the first true "Year of the Gator" in school history. This one had no 2nd chances or probations attached even if a few Boise State fans disagree.
The only thing that would have made it better would be if a victory over Miami had been included along with not losing to Auburn.
Obviously, with such a fantastic season gator fans don't know what to do with themselves. They have always been most arrogant braggards even without championships. It will be interesting to see how UF can handle this ultimate success of 2006??
I do believe we are already seeing the "gator behavior pattern" on this thread, as FSU fans are getting extremely excited about the revamping of their coaching staff. What gator fans just don't understand is such wholesale changes (unlike Florida and Miami) are an extremely "RARE" occurrance at FSU . Bowden has always been most loyal to his coaches, and the FSU staff has been one of the most stable in Division One over the last 30 years or so. Most of the time the only way coaches have left FSU has been for a better position (usually Head coach) somewhere else.
This is a "New Era" beginning at FSU from an FSU fan's perspective, and certainly there is great logic behind that thought, despite gator derision to the contrary. Sure Bowden and FSU continue to have most successful defensive staff that is pretty much the same, but the major difference is on the offensive side of the ball. What a tremendous blend of youth and proven experience!! It is like a shot of adrenalin has been put into the program, and it has nothing to do with the gators phenomenal success of last season.It is I am sure Bowden's hope along with all involved with FSU that these changes will return FSU to a more fundamentally sound team that really hasn't been present since before Charlie Ward. That is playing "FSU BALL" which involves a great running game combined with deadly passing.
The Trickett hire impresses me a lot as I believe he resembles the great Wayne Mcduffie in his teaching. ie Getting the best out of OL prospects. This guy can take 1 star Athletes and turn them into ALL AMERICANS and NFL draft choices. IMAGINE WHAT HE CAN DO WITH 3,4,and 5 Star OL's??? It is called over-achieving and FSU certainly can use that on the Offensive line. It might not happen next year, but I sincerely believe FSU will start being the place where outstanding offensive lineman will gravitate to best secure an NFL career.
With Dawsey and Carter.. you have great ex- FSU players that understand the rewards of toughness and hard work. Both had wonderful careers at FSU and will especially invigorate and relate well to High school players. Personally, I don't believe I have ever seen a "tougher" WR than Dawsey in CFB.
Next, you have Fisher who obviously understands the value of a sound running game and preparing players for NFL style offenses. It has been a long time since FSU had an OC that had such a strong history of committment to running the ball, and strong emphasis on good execution and fundamentals.
Finally, you have Amato who did so well at FSU that he got a head coaching job at NC State from his work. He will be a valuable asset to FSU for both sides of the ball. He had great success against FSU at NC ST. He will be invaluable in pointing out weaknesses on both sides of the ball with his 6 years away from the program.
FSU has excellent talent on both sides of the ball. Last season they were still young but many grew considerably. It looks like the fruit is about to become ripe with experience and leadership. One look at UF last season and all the senior leadership that was present showed how important such things are. Experience is always a positive factor in college football.Bowden seems the most rejuvinated he has been in a about 10 years. It wouldn't surprise me if he is still a head coach at FSU in his early 80's if his health continues to be good. Last season was a rude Awakening for FSU. 2007 is the start of "a New Beginning". While it has been quite fatiguing being the "Top Dog" for so long at FSU, it is nice to get back to being an underdog regaining lost respect.
As to UF, we shall see how gator fans and players handle their unprecedented "Success". Hopefully, the egos and swelling of gator players and fans heads will continue throughout the season because there is nothing more pleasurable than the look of the distraut appearance of a gator fan after a loss. Truly always a "priceless" sight!As Duane Thomas once said: "If the Super Bowl is the ulimate game why do they play one the next year?"
Gatorboy40 said:
posted on January 29, 2007 6:19 PM — 138.163.160.42 — link — abuse?
Joe (post 88) Why do you feel as it Miami must be on the schedule to make it legit. Florida had the toughest schedule. Having Miami on it would probabbly would have made it softer, thus possibly in keeping them from playing in the NC game, since the schedule was the deciding factor. Futhermore, they have no say in playing Miami. If I am correct, most of Miami's NC's does not have Florida on the schedule, so what is your point. They played more worthy teams than Miami could measure up to. I sicerely hope that Miami and FL-ST get there programs back to powerhouse status. I like having the STATE OF FLORIDA having having 3 major colleges in the NC hunt. Back in the Ninties you could bet that one of these teams was going to bring home the beacon, usually only having one of the three knocking each other out of the NC hunt. What gets me is that, all over the blog, everybody is talking shit about the fans being rude, Florida barely winning 4 or 5 games, Tebow won't be good playing full time, the fan egos, and all that horse shit. If your team had won the NC, it will be no different. Especially if your basketball team was kicking ass as well, yeah no other school has done that. It does not matter that the punt against the gamecocks was blocked. THEY LOST the game, it does not matter that FSU, only lost by one point, THEY LOST the game. It does not matter if you feel that LSU was the best team in the SEC, THEY FUCKING lost. Call it a cinderella season, luck, or whatever you chose. I CALL IT A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.
Gatorboy40 said:
posted on January 29, 2007 6:41 PM — 138.163.160.42 — link — abuse?
fsu fan (post 86) I don't really believe that there is a BEST TEAM of all times. First of all, to who's standards are we talking about. Even if you take all the undefeated NC teams, what would be the critera. Also, as long as the BCS is involved, you can bet that some teams is getting screwed. Its all about the money. It is ashamed that if you lose 2 games, you don't have a chance in hell of playing for the NC. But getting back to the point, when someone figure out who is the best NC team of all time, PLEASE POST IT.
fsu.fan said:
posted on January 29, 2007 9:38 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Well, it's almost impossible to compare teams from different eras. The only thing you could look at is how much they dominated their era by - if even that. I'd have to say the 95 Neb team was the most DOMINANT single team of all time (in my opinion). They didnt score an ave of 40 points per game but they BEAT people by that margin. If I am correct (and i'm pretty sure I am) that entire season no team even came within 14 points of them. Thats right, during every single game it was either tied at 0 or they were up by 14. I could be wrong about that. To me, thats insane domination.
Joe said:
posted on January 30, 2007 12:24 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
Gatorboy 40,
You are correct in stating that UF had a very difficult schedule last season at least on paper.
With Alabama and Auburn on the schedule at least in name recognition the schedule indeed would be considered tough. However, Western Carolina, UCF, and Southern Miss were not considered tough and if any of those had been replaced with Miami the schedule would have been tougher.The point is Miami at one time was UF's 3rd longest continuous rival when they were dropped from the schedule.
Next season UF's schedule will be less difficult on paper with the dropping of Alabama and the following year with the dropping of Auburn. Contrary to popular belief UF does not play Auburn and Alabama every season. Soon Miss St, Ole Miss will be on the schedule replacing those teams. Those are not traditionally considered tough teams.
Miami is a most decorated Division One team in the state of Florida in terms of MNC's. They have 5!!!
UF annually avoiding Miami is most cowardly from my view. Especially when UF substitutes teams like Western Carolina, Louisiana Tech,Western Michigan, Lousiana Monroe,Central Michigan, Louisiana Lafayette,Nortern Illinois, New Mexico State,Arkanasas state etc etc in place of them.
Please don't bring up the $$$ issue as that is completely lame. UF has one of the richest athletic departments in the country and substituting a home and home with Miami every season for one of the "lil sisters of the poor" every season would only enhance UF's reputation nationwide.This brings me to another question. Why do the gators refuse to play any out of conference games outside the state of Florida? They do play FSU every other year away from Benny Hill but all other out of conference games are always played at home. It appears that UF is afraid to challenge other Division One powers outside the SEC.
Both FSU and Miami continually play these Big national teams home and away why does UF avoid such matchups? While I certainly can understand last season perhaps but last season was a rarity when UF actually played all the Big Stadium teams in the SEC. Normally that isn't the case.
Joe said:
posted on January 30, 2007 1:40 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
Gatorboy 40,
I agree it is impossible to pick a best team alltime. If there were a real playoff and far more intersectional Out of conference play a better determination could be made but it still would be up for debate.
Best team alltime criteria1. Win a championship with a real playoff
2. Perfect season
3. Play toughest schedule in the country and lead Division One in both offense and defense plus offensive and defensive scoring.
4.Win about 3 - 4 championships in a row for comparison against each of those teams and the competition.That might make a convincing argument.
Gatorboy40 said:
posted on January 31, 2007 1:47 AM — 138.163.160.42 — link — abuse?
Joe (Post 92) Nobody can take away from Miami's colorful history, but I think we were talking about, this past season. You mentioned Fl played Western Carlina, UCF, and Southern Miss. What do you really expect when you are playing 6-7 other ranked teams. Even with those 3 mentioned above, they still had the toughest schedule in the nationed. But in all honesty, 2 of the above mentioned team UCF and Southern Miss, could very well have played with Miami or beaten them.
You mentioned Miami's 5 NC. Taking nonthing away from them, but do you believe that they would have that many NC, had they been in the SEC, vice the Independent and the Big East conference.
You say Fl dodge playing Miami in regular season. If you know anything at all about football, you know that the team does not pick their opponents. Miami might would have enhanced Fl's schedule 10 years ago, but at the current time they carry no weight on anyone's schedule. If you think that they are still the the Miami of Jimmy Johnson's days, you are stuck in a time capsule.
Pleas don't pretend that Miami or FSU don't play a couple of scrubs year after year. Every team play a couple of soft teams, the only problem, they don't win all the time. You say that Florida avoids Miami, but why didn't Miami join the SEC, when they had a chance. They went to one of the weakest Football conferences, AT THE TIME THEY JOINED. Miami have NC's where they did not play Fl, so why is there so many gums bumping about Fl not playing Miami, when they weren't competitive at all anyway. Some people are confusing this years Miami with a team ten years ago or more.Joe, You all played, Fla A&M, Nevada, and Florida INT. Are you saying that these are worthy opponents. I can't believe that you can talk about the three scrubs on the Gators schedule, andn now that we got those three for three, out of the way, lets match up the remaining teams. It would really be pointless, you know the answer.
Miami won against (FL-A&M), (HOUSTON), (UNC), (FL-INT), (DUKE), (Boston College) and (Nevada). Now this bring me to my last two question. How many of these teams that Miami beat were ranked. Last question, how many teams that Miami lost against, were ranked. The answer is 0 and 0.Gatorboy40 said:
posted on January 31, 2007 2:03 AM — 138.163.160.41 — link — abuse?
FSU FAN (Post91) you could use their dominance during that season to say that they were the best. But someone could argue that they did not play anybody in regular season play, or that their conference was down on competition. Alabama ran the table back in the nineties, pistol whupped Miami in the NC game when they Gino Terretto or whatever his name was, as QB. He won the Heisyman Trophy. That was a good team as well. Alabama has a few nice seasons as well, but Noone can say who is best of all times.
Joe said:
posted on January 31, 2007 1:31 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
No gator boy 40,
This thread is primarily about FSU's exciting coaching hires. The sidelights about UF refusing to play any Out of conference game outside the state of Florida and refusing to play Miami every season is just an added element of the thread.
Most certainly FSU and Miami have an occasional low stature opponent but they do in fact play out of conference games against name opponents outside the state of Florida. When was the last time UF did that??
UF doesn't play Auburn or Alabama every year.
What is interesting is other SEC teams schedule out of state NAME opponents home and away. Why can't UF? No one in the SEC complains about their too tough schedule but UF. Why is that?
FSU has never avoided a high profile state rival like UF has with Miami.
How can anyone respect UF when they run and hide from competition??
fsu.fan said:
posted on January 31, 2007 3:29 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Gatorboy40 #95
You're right. There's no hands down best team of all time. My opinion is the 95 neb team. No, they did not play a weak schedule. Infact, they beat 4 teams during the season that finished in the top 10 - they beat those teams by an average score of 49-18. Beating four top teams by that average score is INSANE. In the national title game they played a VERY good steve run and gun team, destroyed them 62-24, marking the largest margin of victory and highest score in a national championship game in history (2nd biggest blow out of a #1 vs #2 in any game, bowl or reg season). That team also had the #1 scoring offense in the nation averaging 52.4 points per game and 556.3 offensive yards per game. To match the great offensive production was a dominant defense, #1 scoring defense in the nation only giving up 13 points per game.
Of course you could argue for other teams being best of all-time but it's hard to ague one dominated college football and their opponents more.
gatorstud said:
posted on February 1, 2007 2:36 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
hey fsu.fan..not trying to toot our horns...but the 95-96 gators wasn't too bad either....
avg. 47 pts a game and allowing 17 pts a game....and if it weren't for that game at fsu, in which we were robbed, we would of gone undefeated....
but i would have to agree w/ you about nebraska, damn, they were good...and they sure did beat us down in the title game...i still have nightmares about frazier running all over us. lol
Gatorboy 40 said:
posted on February 2, 2007 11:23 AM — 220.150.41.116 — link — abuse?
Joe post96.
Are you saying that FSU is not a worthy team that FL play outside of conference. Lets not lose focus, overall the play more ranked team every year than FSU or Miami. I still dont understand you saying, that they avoid competition when they have no conrol of who the play, and still play better competition AS A WHOLE, THAN FSU OR MIAMI.
Joe said:
posted on February 3, 2007 3:24 AM — 65.32.170.228 — link — abuse?
Here is the deal..
UF has absolutely no control over their SEC schedule. Sometimes it is allegedly tough like last season when Auburn and Alabama were the rotating teams on the schedule, and on top of that the only other quality SEC team (Arkansas) was played in the championship. There was little doubt that UF played an extremely daunting SEC schedule last season, and won the conference convincingly going away.
No matter what teams UF played "out of conference" that fact wouldn't have changed. Winning the SEC championship guarantees a BCS bowl bid.
Out of conference schedules have absolutely no relevence to that FACT. Win your conference and you are in.As to the "out of conference" schedule that is totally up to the school. Florida now has 4 out of conference games to schedule every year.
Unlike FSU and Miami, UF chooses to never leave the state of Florida to play any out of conference game.
Additionally Miami was their 3rd longest continuous rival and UF dropped them and replaced them with teams like New Mexico, Montana State,Akron,San Jose st and Louisiana Tech.
Interestingly, Miami has been one of the most dominating teams in the nation over the last 35 years
Explain to me why UF would drop their third oldest rival to play those games???
There is only one answer... Fear of Losing!!As for the comment of playing more "ranked" teams that has little meaning and those alleged rankings are no more than opinions with bias. Additionally, as pointed out above UF indeed may have played more ranked teams last season than either UM or FSU but that is not the annual case. In fact below are the Sagarin rankings for UF and FSU on strength of schedule since 1998.
1998 FSU # 5 UF #47
1999 FSU # 11 UF #12
2000 FSU # 12 UF # 27
2001 FSU # 3 UF # 9
2002 FSU # 3 UF # 9
2003 FSU # 2 UF #7
2004 FSU #29 UF # 57
2005 FSU # 30 UF # 40
2006 FSU # 39 UF # 8
As you can see even playing in the SEC, UF has not continuously played a tougher schedule than FSU.
There is a reason for it being just the opposite and that lies in the following FACTS:1. FSU always plays both Miami and Florida every season and that has been the case even before Miami entered the ACC. Additionally, FSU made sure that they played Miami every season when they entered the ACC.
2. FSU also attempts to play a home and home with a Nationally know team outside the conference. Some of those teams in the past have been Notre Dame, USC, Nebraska, Michgan, Ohio State etc. This year they play both Alabama and at Colorado.Every SEC team isn't great. Do not confuse passionate fans for great football teams. There may be more teams in the SEC of top quality than other conferences but UF seldom ever plays them all. Last year was the exception not the rule!!
They do have control out of who they play out of conference and UF refuses to ever play any other "Nationally" know team out of conference outside the state of Florida and they also avoid a state rival that they haven't beaten since 1985!!!It is rather obvious why Miami has been taken off the annual play list.
What I find interesting is no other SEC team or for that matter any team in CFB states the reason:"WE PLAY TOO TOUGH OF A SCHEDULE AS AN EXCUSE"
WHY can't they play Outside the state of Florida???
WHY can't they play Miami every season???
At best I call that avoiding quality competion at worst far worse things can be inferred.fsu.fan said:
posted on February 3, 2007 11:09 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Joe #101
Good post. Very informative. I'd like to see UF-Miami play yearly. Annually it would be awesome to see which program does better against the other two. The quality of teams and games would give us a "champion of florida, the best college football state in the country."
gatorstud said:
posted on February 3, 2007 2:12 PM — 71.114.217.67 — link — abuse?
well i have had enough of this chat....it is obvious that joe is making every attempt to discredit the florida program...i enjoy jabbing back and forth with other die-hard school supporters (especially fsWHO fans)..mostly in just fun but, damn joe you have come up w/ basically every kind of stat possible to make the gators look bad..i mean damn, man...get over it.......the gators own national trophys from basketball and football....get over your jealousy...and focus on your programs success....and we will see you in late november....until then nothin you have to say holds water....nothing...i'm done here...
Joe said:
posted on February 3, 2007 10:46 PM — 65.32.170.228 — link — abuse?
fsu.fan,
Likewise, as a CFB fan it was great when the Big three in the state played each other each year and a State Champion could be claimed. Of course with USF coming on strong it might be the Big 4 every season.
gatorstud,This thread was supposed to be about the recent great hires by FSU for their coaching staff. Unfortunately it seems almost every gator fan on this thread has tried to hi-jack the thread and rain on the parade.
When you come in throwing stones unlike some Nole fans I don't run for cover. Likewise when it comes to how each institution has run their program in the NCAA's eyes... I have one suggestion... Don't go there!! I would also stay away from the UF plays too tough of a schedule stuff.
UF had a fantastic season and great championship.
Enjoy it..
FSU had a less than satisfactory season... But now has some extremely exciting coaching changes... FSU fans deserve to feel good about them without gator fans crapping on the floor.
gatorboy 40 said:
posted on February 7, 2007 6:39 AM — 220.150.42.53 — link — abuse?
Joe, I am done with this. I have made my point and have heard yours. But I will say this. Miami and Fsu had a chance to join the SEC, but instead they joined the weakest football conference that there was, at the time. It was their decision on what conference that they apply to join. But they wanted no part of the SEC,,,,CASE CLOSED.
hokie4life said:
posted on February 7, 2007 6:20 PM — 64.128.214.5 — link — abuse?
FSU can't stand the fact that they are no longer the dominant team in the ACC. FSU needs to come to realize this fact! Other than perhaps the PAC 10 with USC, all other major football conferneces never know who will be on top one year to the next. Case and point Anagural season for Tech in the ACC. Noone even thought about us winning the title. But we did. FSU and Miami hire and fire like it's nothing. Face the cold hard truth FSU and Miami, your not the premier and dominant teams of the past!!!
Joe said:
posted on February 8, 2007 12:44 PM — 72.186.246.28 — link — abuse?
Gator boy 40,
FSU and Miami have never been formally offered to join the SEC. You are in total error with that statement.
Hmmm? hokie4life? While I have always been a fan of VT, I wouldn't get carried away too much. When was the last time VT beat FSU??
FSU contrary to your statement does not hire and fire like its nothing... Bowden has been by far the most loyal to his staff than any coach in the country. These recent changes are most unique for FSU during his tenure.hokie4life said:
posted on February 9, 2007 5:32 PM — 64.128.214.5 — link — abuse?
These changes were demanded by the boosters man!!! Are you kidding me, what father in their right mind would fire his son!!! It was Bobby make the changes or you may want to look into AARP. I don't care about how long he's been at FSU. If their not winning he's on the hot seat. I respect both programs past success. I'm not dissing them, I'm trying to state the fact that neither will dominate the conference again. It's simply getting to competative. Read the entry, I never said VAhh Tech rules the conference. Man I follow my Hokies everywhere. I know who we have had success with and who we haven't. FSU and Miami are great programs. Yeah, it's been a while since we beat FSU. If FSU would have done the right and just thing, their last championship should have been Vahh Techs'. If anyone recalls, Peter Warrick who happened to smoke the Tech secondary and become the MVP for that game should have never played. He was caught stealing clothes etc. What did FSU do about it? Nothing. Hate to bring up the past, but really is FSU that good? You may need to take some caffiene and read my entry again!!! Much Respect
fsu.fan said:
posted on February 9, 2007 7:07 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Two issues.
gatorboy40 #105
FSU has never been "invited" to the SEC. The SEC was 10 teams strong until 1991 when they expanded to 12 teams by adding the University of Arkansas from the Southwest Conference and the University of South Carolina from the independent ranks. When it was released that the SEC wanted to expand FSU (independent at the time) OFFERED to join the conference, FSU wanted to join the SEC. Instead, the SEC declined FSU's offer and went with USC instead thinking it was a better move for the conference. How'd that turn out for the SEC? lol After being declined to join the SEC FSU was accepted into the ACC on July 1, 1991.
hokie4life #106The question Joe #107 asked you is very telling. The answer, Frank Beamer has NEVER beat BB. Also, you said "FSU and Miami hire and fire like it's nothing." I wont speak for Miami but you referring to FSU in that reguard is - moronic. Until this year, the only time a coach has left the FSU staff has been for a promotion (see mark richt leaving OC at fsu for HC at uga). You will be VERY hard pressed to research and find an instance where a coach on BB's staff left for a lateral move, was fired, or "resigned" until this past year. BB is one of the most loyal coaches in college football.
Also, I dont think anyone could argue the past several years FSU has not dominated CF like it used to, or even come close. In addition, FSU's conference and overall record the past several years has not been anywhere close to what it has been. However, FSU has won 2 ACC titles in the past 4 years. Regardless of record ect ect, thats still dominating the conference. Also, despite a drop off since 2000, FSU has only NOT won the ACC 3 times. In other words, FSU has struggled the past 6 years, yet have managed to win the conference 3 out of the 6 years. To me, that's still dominating a conference. The old ball coach won 6 SEC titles in 12 years, everyone knows he dominated the SEC. Even through FSU's struggles they've done the same thing - won the conference 50% of the time.
Clearly, the FSU program is on the way up. With the awesome coaching changes that have taken place I dont think any rational person can say FSU will continue to struggle like they have in the future. So, I fully expect the dominance to continue in the ACC and RETURN to college football in general.
FEAR THE SPEAR!!!
Joe said:
posted on February 10, 2007 7:10 AM — 65.32.170.228 — link — abuse?
FSU fan did you catch the Bowden interview reviewing recruiting?
As I have mentioned many times about the problems at FSU and JB's advancement to OC and all the less than satisfactory results that followed,I pointed out that Bowden has actively tried to get back to what FSU football used to be like prior to Charlie Ward. ( This is not to say that the Spread formation and shotgun should be abandoned as they will always be a part of FSU football) However, there has been a steady decline with FSU and their ability to consistently run the ball and use the TE more in the FSU offense.
Finally, Bowden is turning the entire OFFENSE over to Fisher... May we finally see an end to the "Chinese Fire Drill" on the sideline trying to get a play off before having to use a time out or get a delay of game penalty??
I don't believe there has been one feature of the FSU offense that has been more disturbing than that mess that has been around for about 15 years!!
How disturbing was the Clemson game watching the Clemson QB have a cup of coffee, everyone lined up and in place,and still have 15 seconds to look over the defense?In contrast FSU usually burns all its time outs before the first quarter ends to avoid delay of game penalties... Please let this season be the end of that!!
fsu.fan said:
posted on February 10, 2007 3:20 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Joe #111
From what I understand and have seen from watching LSU the past several years, Fisher runs a VERY efficient offense. I dont think we will see the offense scramble to get plays off anymore. Fisher does an awesome job at teaching QB's to read defenses while at the line and under center. Also, I think it will again be a very balanced offense. I think FSU will have a very strong running game theu can use to pound on and wear out defenses (especially with Tricket coaching that o-line) and a deadly passing game to compliment it.
As an FSU fan there's MANY things I'm excited about and cant wait to see. One of them is, who will win the starting QB job!? I think the past couple years DW has been "Bobby's boy" but as you said, BB is giving Fisher full control of the offense. I think Lee and Weathford both have a lot of talent, Jeff was not able to unlock an ounce of it though. Neither QB has LOOKED GOOD in games but I think that was due to poor coaching more than anything. Fisher will bring out the best in both QB's. I think both will have an equal chance in spring and summer work outs to win the job with Fisher calling the shots. I look forward to seeing who it's going to be!
Also, look for Greg Carr to have an AMAZING year with the better offense and again - better coaching!!!
Is it September yet!?!?
FEAR THE SPEAR!
fsu.fan said:
posted on February 11, 2007 9:08 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
hokie4life #109
Well, you're bringing up the past. Personally, sounds like sour grapes. Peter W. played. FSU won. VT lost. However, you may be right, maybe PW SHOULDNT have played. No one can complain about the fact he did though - every program has at one time or another NOT suspended their best player for a big game, especially bowl games, ESPECIALLY NC games.
As a Hokie fan you should know that. Remember Marcus Vick? Peter Warick has ONE instance with the law, Marcus I Can Do Anything I Want Because My Brother Is Mike Vick built an entire LIST of arrests among other problems. Did VT ever bench him ONCE? No. Did they bench him for their bowl game? No. Marcus was a repeat offender and in the bowl game he showed WHY he should have been benched - he stomped on the leg of an opposing player, classy guy.
No program is perfect so anyone complaining about that type of thing is being the pot calling the kettle black.
See you in Backsburg!
FEAR THE SPEAR!!!
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B.Hathaway said:
posted on January 17, 2007 7:15 PM — 12.227.137.70 — link — abuse?Nice. Now we have no excuses, we should produce next year with an all-star staff like we have now. Nice going Bobby...Nice going.