September 21, 2007
FSU set to create legacy as Taser U.
Sure... football players get in to a little trouble with the law now and then, but are they upholding their school's tradition of getting tasered the way Florida State linebacker Geno Hayes was last night? I don't think so.
An altercation with police took place at a bar on College Ave. in Tallahassee, where Geno Hayes and Joe Surratt were arrested.Police had to use a taser on Hayes in order to subdue him. Surratt attempted to intervene, and was told to remove himsef from the situation. He would not and continued the altercation with TPD.
While details are sketchy, Hayes was asked to leave a bar at 1:45a and tried to re-enter. Security barred him from returning and a scuffle ensued. Surratt attempted to come to Hayes' aid, and both players were subdued by TPD. There have been rumors that Hayes was fighting an entire "circle" of guys who were trying to keep him from re-entering the bar.
While Surratt didn't bow up enough to get the juice, Hayes becomes the second FSU linebacker to be tasered in the past couple years. (LB AJ Nicholson got the juice from the Tallahassee PD in June 2005.)
Surratt's will be charged with disorderly conduct, battery on an officer, and resisting an officer without violence. Hayes will be charged with assault, resisting without violence, and disturbing the peace.
Both players have been suspended by Florida State pending further investigation.
No word yet as to their future with the Seminole football team, but it does appear that Hayes is being charged with misdemeanor offenses. Per the FSU athletic policy, misdemeanors are generally handled by the Seminole coaching staff, with approval from the Director of Athletics.
It appears that Surratt is being charged with at least one felony offense - battery on a law enforecement officer (Florida statute 784.07(2)(B)), so his days at FSU are probably over.
Odd that Hayes would get the misdemeanor, and yet was tasered? I know he's built like a bulldog, but just seems a little... inconsistent, unless he went after an officer because of Hayes being tasered. ((Pure speculation on my part))
Reports from Tallahassee have the Seminoles considering doing away with the flaming spear, instead opting to give Chief Osceola a taser which he would fire at midfield during pregame.
UPDATE
The Orlando Sentinel blog has the Tallahassee Police Department's incident report from the arrest.
THE FOLLOWING IS THE INCIDENT ACCORDING TO THE TALLAHASSEE POLICE DEPARTMENT:"This morning, at approximately 1:45AM, officers from the Tallahassee Police Department were conducting a directed patrol in an effort to detect possible underage drinking at 459 West College Avenue (Potbelly's).
The officers were across the street from Potbelly's, when they observed a black male, not wearing a shirt, screaming profanities and waving his hands wildly. The black male was later identified as Eugene "Geno" Hayes.
Hayes appeared to be attempting to enter the establishment while other males attempted to restrain him. Officers Michael Malafronte and Michael Petroczky walked across the street in an attempt to determine why Hayes was so upset. An employee of Potbelly's explained that Hayes was involved in an altercation inside the bar and that Hayes' friends were attempting to escort him home.
Officer Malafronte made contact with Hayes in an effort to calm him down and regain order. Officer Malafronte was wearing a department approved vest carrier with the word "POLICE" printed on the front in 3" letters. Officer Malafronte asked Hayes to calm down and Hayes reportedly responded with profane language and became aggressive toward the officer.
Hayes was again restrained by his friends, but he continually attempted to defeat their efforts. Officer Malafronte explained to Hayes that he would be subject to arrest if he did not leave. Hayes eventually broke free from his friends and began running toward Officer Malafronte. Hayes' fists were clinched as he ran toward Officer Malafronte yelling, "I'm going to get your (expletive deleted)�" Officer Malafronte pointed his Taser at Hayes in an attempt to stop Hayes' aggressive action.
Hayes was again pulled away by his friends, Officer Malafronte explained that Hayes was now going to be arrested due to his hostile actions. Officer Petroczky was standing next to Officer Malafronte during the above events and attempted to escort Hayes away from the crowd and arrest him.
Hayes reportedly tensed and attempted to pull away and defeat the arrest. Officer Petroczky took Hayes to the ground and attempted to handcuff Hayes, but Hayes began to resist and attempted to stand up. Officer Malafronte observed the resistance and deployed his Taser to gain compliance.
Officer Petroczky attempted to handcuff Hayes when Joseph Surratt, who was part of the group with Hayes, ran towards Officer Petroczky.
Surratt was told several times to "Back up" because the officers believed Surratt would interfere with the arrest. Surratt did not comply and Officer Petroczky shoved Surratt back, causing Surratt to fall. Officer Petroczky attempted to arrest Surratt and was struck by Surratt during the arrest.
Eventually, both Hayes and Surratt were arrested. Officer Petroczky received a cut inside his lower lip as a result of Surratt's resistance, but no other injures were reported."
Update 9-25-07
FSU Head Coach Bobby Bowden announced that Geno Hayes would play this weekend against Alabama, but he has been demoted from his starting position to the second team.
Florida State football head coach Bobby Bowden announced late Tuesday disciplinary measures taken involving junior linebacker Geno Hayes, in accordance with the FSU Athletics Student-Athlete Code of Conduct/Discipline Policy. Hayes was issued misdemeanor charges in an incident on September 21st, an offense in which punishment, as stated in the Discipline Policy, is handled by the head coach, after review by the Director of Athletics, and is largely based on past deportment of the student-athlete involved.After reviewing the circumstances of the incident, Bowden has demoted Hayes to second team and he will not start Saturday's game vs. Alabama. Hayes will also attend behavioral counseling and perform community service in addition to other internal coach's disciplinary actions.
"I want to apologize to my family, coaches, teammates, fans and Florida State University for the incident that took place last week," Hayes said. "I have always taken pride in representing myself and this university in a positive manner and unfortunately, I did not live up to those standards on this occasion. I realize I can not make another mistake of this or any other nature."
The status of injured senior fullback Joe Surratt, who was issued a felony charge in the same incident, will be determined as the situation moves through the legal process. Per the FSU Athletics Student-Athlete Code of Conduct/Discipline Policy, a student-athlete can not compete when charged with a felony.
Comments:
Rammer Jammer said:
posted on September 21, 2007 12:14 PM — 199.89.170.92 — link — abuse?
"Reports from Tallahassee have the Seminoles considering doing away with the flaming spear, instead opting to give Chief Osceola a taser which he would fire at midfield during pregame."ILMAO!!!
WE Atl
Whats' up with all of these kids from the state of FL being tasered? Don't taze me, bro! Don't taze me! BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Man, those cops in FL don't play!!!Roll Tide
badgerballer
posted on September 21, 2007 1:51 PM — 71.34.152.11 — link — abuse?
said:
2:00am on a week night?! *Sheesh* Ok, I'll admit its been a few years since I was a college athlete - but good grief, what ever happened to mandatory discipline? Particularly in-season. If our coach had found out that we were ANYWHERE at 2am in the midst of the season, other than in our beds, heads would roll.gatorhippy
posted on September 21, 2007 2:50 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
Scalp em has a transcript of the TPD media release...
http://www.scalpem.com/blog/2007/09/21/the-full-rundown-on-the-hayes-surratt-situation/
Jon said:
posted on September 21, 2007 3:51 PM — 68.84.19.20 — link — abuse?
Stupid. stupid. stupid.
It is always odd for me to read these stories and try to figure out why alcohol effects different people so differently. I've been on every point of the drunken spectrum at one time or the other, but I have never lost my ability to control myself. It seems like if alcohol was the problem, these guys would of hung themselves well before this... This is complete speculation on my part, but I'd be damned surprised if steroids weren't in this equation.
Jon said:
posted on September 21, 2007 4:00 PM — 68.84.19.20 — link — abuse?
And BTW.. Potbellys???
Memo to all idiot players:
Prance up to Harrys downtown, Andrews, Clydes and Cafe Cabernet and 1) you will get taken care of by the locals and 2) you will be dealing with a much more intelligent crowd.
posted on September 21, 2007 4:36 PM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue
said:
UPDATE: The Orlando Sentinel blog has posted the police incident report:
THE FOLLOWING IS THE INCIDENT ACCORDING TO THE TALLAHASSEE POLICE DEPARTMENT:
"This morning, at approximately 1:45AM, officers from the Tallahassee Police Department were conducting a directed patrol in an effort to detect possible underage drinking at 459 West College Avenue (Potbelly's).
The officers were across the street from Potbelly's, when they observed a black male, not wearing a shirt, screaming profanities and waving his hands wildly. The black male was later identified as Eugene "Geno" Hayes.
Hayes appeared to be attempting to enter the establishment while other males attempted to restrain him. Officers Michael Malafronte and Michael Petroczky walked across the street in an attempt to determine why Hayes was so upset. An employee of Potbelly's explained that Hayes was involved in an altercation inside the bar and that Hayes' friends were attempting to escort him home.
Officer Malafronte made contact with Hayes in an effort to calm him down and regain order. Officer Malafronte was wearing a department approved vest carrier with the word "POLICE" printed on the front in 3" letters. Officer Malafronte asked Hayes to calm down and Hayes reportedly responded with profane language and became aggressive toward the officer.
Hayes was again restrained by his friends, but he continually attempted to defeat their efforts. Officer Malafronte explained to Hayes that he would be subject to arrest if he did not leave. Hayes eventually broke free from his friends and began running toward Officer Malafronte. Hayes' fists were clinched as he ran toward Officer Malafronte yelling, "I'm going to get your (expletive deleted)…" Officer Malafronte pointed his Taser at Hayes in an attempt to stop Hayes' aggressive action.
Hayes was again pulled away by his friends, Officer Malafronte explained that Hayes was now going to be arrested due to his hostile actions. Officer Petroczky was standing next to Officer Malafronte during the above events and attempted to escort Hayes away from the crowd and arrest him.
Hayes reportedly tensed and attempted to pull away and defeat the arrest. Officer Petroczky took Hayes to the ground and attempted to handcuff Hayes, but Hayes began to resist and attempted to stand up. Officer Malafronte observed the resistance and deployed his Taser to gain compliance.
Officer Petroczky attempted to handcuff Hayes when Joseph Surratt, who was part of the group with Hayes, ran towards Officer Petroczky.
Surratt was told several times to "Back up" because the officers believed Surratt would interfere with the arrest. Surratt did not comply and Officer Petroczky shoved Surratt back, causing Surratt to fall. Officer Petroczky attempted to arrest Surratt and was struck by Surratt during the arrest.
Eventually, both Hayes and Surratt were arrested. Officer Petroczky received a cut inside his lower lip as a result of Surratt's resistance, but no other injures were reported."
posted on September 21, 2007 4:53 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
What is Potbelly's? A Tallahassee top-less bar? There's always two sides to every story, but it's hard to believe that these guys would show that much aggression towards police officers.
Unless other evidence to the contrary surfaces, these guys are gone from the program. Right or wrong, if a cop tells you to do something, you have to do it (obviosuly talking about lawful orders here) 'Taze Me Bro' in Gainesville brought all that on himself, although for the record, I thought the police were wrong to try to stop him from continuing to speak.
Jon said:
posted on September 21, 2007 4:57 PM — 68.84.19.20 — link — abuse?
Kevin - I have no source, it is just speculation... But think about it... imagine how pissed off you need to be in order to charge cops... who were only trying to stop you from going back into a bar and getting into a fight. Have you ever been that drunk?
I just have a hard time believing alcohol was the only culprit. I've seen situations occur like this numerous times and consistently either steroids (super high testosterone) or coke (cocaine) come into play.
When TPD tests his blood levels for drug use, they need to do a thorough panel and check his testosterone level. IMHO, charging a cop who's pointing a taser at you and ordering you to stop = highly unlikely to be caused by alcohol.
Wareagle - Potbelly's is college bar right on the main strip of Tennessee St, across from FSU. It is like a dungeon, it smells horrible and only low-brow college kids and their ilk frequent it.
gatorhippy
posted on September 21, 2007 5:22 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
Jon (#15):
"imagine how pissed off you need to be in order to charge cops... who were only trying to stop you from going back into a bar and getting into a fight. Have you ever been that drunk?"
He's a linbacker, Jon...
Being that pissed off is what Geno does...
In Hayes' case it's an admirable personality quality...
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 21, 2007 7:48 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
Well, anyone charged with a felony should be kicked off the team. Period. This is unacceptable by players - regardless of what school.
I do think there is much more to this.
I smell a bit of bull shit here.
"Officer Petroczky attempted to handcuff Hayes when Joseph Surratt, who was part of the group with Hayes, RAN towards Officer Petroczky.Surratt was told several times to "Back up" because the officers believed Surratt would interfere with the arrest. Surratt did not comply and Officer Petroczky shoved Surratt back, causing Surratt to fall. Officer Petroczky attempted to arrest Surratt and was struck by Surratt during the arrest."
Well, I'm not sure how believable this is...
Surratt "RAN towards officer Petroczky." REALLY!?!? See, that doesn't make much sense considering Surratt is on IR with a BROKEN LEG. Surratt is on crutches. So, I'm not sure how a guy with a broken leg on crutches RUNS towards a cop.
Also, I'm not sure if I agree with a cop pushing a cripple.
The players were clearly in the wrong, no doubt. There's no reason for them to be out so late. They're only asking for trouble. They should have left peacefully. The players are in the wrong but...Some of that police report doesn't fly with me. Like, guys with broken legs charging cops. So, I think the full story hasn't been told.
Jon said:
posted on September 21, 2007 8:41 PM — 68.84.19.20 — link — abuse?
1st_and_NOLE - just wanted to say a few things..
TPD is going to write the report that tries to remove the liability from themselves. In law enforcement it's called "creative writing" and it is purely a system of the moronic, sue-happy society we currently live in. I can almost guarantee you that the report will contain factual truths, but the wording of the report will be subjective. But I can also pretty much guarantee you that if you were in law enforcement and had to deal with some of the can of worms idiot judges opened, you would be doing the same thing.
A lot of the public has a really bad impression of the law enforcement community because they only make it in the news when something goes wrong.
But I can tell you from first hand experience, I have nothing but absolute good things to say about TPD. Compared to the national standards they are a top notch department and absolutely do not tolerate officer abuse. And from my dealings and talking to other officers about the situation, I am confident the officers acted in the publics best interest.
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 21, 2007 9:15 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
I'm not trying to knock the TPD but...
If a police report was about me... I'd want it worded perfectly. The police shouldn't try to paint whatever picture they want in their report. That can affect a lot.
I mean, lets think about this...
They claimed Surratt who has a broken leg charged at a cop and "RAN" at him. Wording the report like that, makes it seem MUCH more justifiable for the officer to PUSH Surratt.
However...
With Surratt being on crutches, he didn't RUN at anyone - he hobbled. So, if the report was written how it's true... With Surratt hobbling or walking at least... seems a bit excessive for a cop to shove someone, doesn't it???
Also, Surratt is a damn full back. I seriously doubt many if any cop is going to simply "push" Surratt and knock him to the ground. The reason a cop "pushing" him ended with him falling to the ground is because... HE'S ON CRUTCHES.
The bottom line is...
If a guy is on crutches, he's not charging or running at anyone. So, why would a cop need to push a man on crutches to the ground? They wouldn't but they did any way. So, they word to report suspiciously.
If it was me and my future and perception was on the line, I'd want it worded correctly to the "T". The contents of those reports play a lot in the outcome of charges and a case. They shouldn't be worded to paint whatever picture the cop wants.
It smells like BS to me.
gatorhippy
posted on September 21, 2007 11:02 PM — 70.121.185.56 — link — abuse? said:
1st&Nole (17,19) & Jon (18):
Surely you gys will have a hard time swallowin' this from a Gator, but I'll toss it out there anyway...
First, Surrat's leg injury is a fractured fibula...
The fibula is the rear lateral bone in the calf and is non load bearing but is used in the biomechanical movement of the body and aids in shock absorption and stabilization...
From experience, normally this is not necessarily a highly movement impairing injury but does need the bone to be immobilized and keep unnecessary use to a minimum for faster healing...
Usually stabilized with a simple boot rather than a cast and doesn't normally require crutches unless you're a little old lady or morbidly obese...
While Surratt's injury did require surgery, it was also reported he was expected to be running six to eight weeks after the procedure...
That was in mid-August; approximately five weeks ago; so his movement has more than likely improved signifigantly as he is on the cusp of that 6-8 week window...
Given that Surrat is a highly conditioned athlete, his movement would be impaired but he would certainly be able to move with urgency and more than likely RUN once his adreneline was flowing especially in that it was reinforced...
Which given the situation, assuredly the adrenaline was pumping...
However, I haven't seen or heard any updates on Surratt's injury recently, but I'm confident in the fact he certainly is far from feeble and immobile even with a gimp leg...
Secondly...
Anyway you spin it, Surratt had NO business interfering with the TPD arrest of Hayes and was arrested accordingly because of it...
End of discussion on that topic...
As far as the wording or contents of the police report and the accuracy of that information...
Remember, you can be ARRESTED for anything...
Whether you are CONVICTED all depends on the outcome of a trial and convincing judge/jury otherwise...
In the end...
These two guys plead guilty to reduced charges of misdemeanors and get reinstated...
Unless there is some witnesses and/or video that will either:
a) prove the overstatement and inflation of the incident in the report deeming them innocent...
or...
b) validate the report beyond the prosecutor being willing to drop felony charges...
Again, I'm betting a reduction of the felony charges and a dismissal of one or two charges in exchange for a guilty plea to at least resisting arrest and disturbing the peace...
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 21, 2007 11:31 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
gatorhippy:
No one is condoning the players actions. I believe I've been very clear I don't support any of this at all and the players should be dealt with harshly. If the felony sticks, kick him out of school.
In regards to a fractured fibula, it CAN require a cast. Especially if surgery is also required. Usually your a doctor will tell you to rest the injured leg, apply ice to the injured area, and take a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (like Asprin) in order to help with pain and swelling. However, in more serious cases it can require a cast and surgery.
In Surratt's case it did require a cast and surgery.
Is Surratt still in a cast? I'm not for certain he is, but he was at one time.
Is it possible he's in a boot now? Yes.
However, if he's still on crutches or in a boot... he's not mobile enough to run at anyone. After all, he's a full back and he's a load so he would need two good legs to run. Plus, no cop is going to be able to "shove" Surratt and knock him to the ground UNLESS he is very immobile due to still being on crutches or in a boot... in which case he wouldn't be able to run.
gatorhippy
posted on September 21, 2007 11:58 PM — 70.121.185.56 — link — abuse? said:
First N Nole (#21):
"Plus, no cop is going to be able to "shove" Surratt and knock him to the ground UNLESS he is very immobile due to still being on crutches or in a boot"...
Or unless he stumbled over a curb, person or other type of obstacle when shoved...
Which when combined with possible inebriation...
Easily could have happened...
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 22, 2007 12:23 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
gatorhippy #22:
Anything is possible but considering the report states Surratt is running either on crutches or in a boot...
It brings into question the whole validity of the report.
Surratt is a large and powerful man. So lets assume Surratt wasn't in a boot or on crutches. Lets assume Surratt DID run at the cop. If Surratt is running at the cop, if the cop shoves Surratt, is it going to push Surratt backwards or throw him off balance enough to stumble over a curb or another object? I seriously doubt it. If Surratt is running at the cop like the report claims, then Surratt would have bulldozed right through the cop. Unless, Surratt runs at the cop, suddenly hits the breaks and stops right before he gets to the cop, and then allows the cop to shove him down - which that doesn't sound logical.
Again, the only way a cop shove Surratt and causes him to lose his balance, stumble over something, or straight up push him to the ground is if he's immobilized by being in a boot or on crutches. In which case he's not running at anyone. Which leaves me wondering why there was a need to shove Surratt.
It doesn't add up no matter how you slice it.
Big Tide said:
posted on September 22, 2007 7:48 AM — 12.208.88.211 — link — abuse?
The bottom line is that Bobby B. lost control of this program some time ago and is hanging around f or reasons that aren't in the best interest of the program (i.e. Victory Total). Bobby has had a lot of talent come through Tallahassee and has gotten little mileage or hardware to show for it of late. My father played football for FSU back when Don James was the coach (way back in '60) and I've been going down there since they had metal bleachers and that big spear that lit up when the crowd got excited. Those were great days for FSU. Now they've got that beautiful stadium and that statue of Bobby overlooking everything. I just think these problems are symptoms of a larger disease. Obviously no coach can keep an eye on players 24/7 but this kind of behavior is pretty over the top. When I was in school at Bama we had all the usual drunk football player incidents, but at least they were typically in the off season. Just sad to see FSU begin to take their place with the second or even third tier college programs in the country.
posted on September 22, 2007 9:19 AM — link — abuse? said:
Just my two cents... the Tallahassee Police *ARE* *NOT* *AT* *FAULT*. I have known a lot of people in the TPD and I'm sure that there are some bad apples, but I have never met one. All the officers in college towns are well trained to deal with these situations. I have no doubt they did their job and did it well.
If Hayes had taken a walk when he was told to take a walk, this never would have happened, period.
gatorhippy
posted on September 22, 2007 9:26 AM — 70.121.185.56 — link — abuse? said:
First & Nole (#23):
You starting to throw a lot of conjecture around there, Bro...
In today's Orlando Sentinel, it does verify that Surratt is still n a cast...
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orl-fsu2207sep22,0,428654.story?coll=orl_tab02_layout
And the Tally Democrat, is reporting that Surratt told Police he couldn't back up when ordered due to the cast on his leg...
http://www.nolesports.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070922/FSU03/709220331
So I'll give Surratt the benefit of the doubt, for now, on physical limitations...
With that in mind...
Perhaps the police report should have read...
Surratt approached in a menancing and threatening manner...
Would that meet your satisfaction...
Jon said:
posted on September 22, 2007 10:10 AM — 68.84.19.20 — link — abuse?
gatorhippy - you probably just made some t-shirt vendor a lot of money on game day :-p
This discussion will never be complete until Joe comes in and throws in his 2-cents. Please tell me he figured out how to register... I know the process is a little complex :-p
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 22, 2007 10:28 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
Yeah I was pretty sure Surratt was still in a cast or a boot in the very least.
I'm not trying to take blame off the players in anyway. They were completely in the wrong and put themselves in a bad situation.
The only problem I have is the police subtly wording the police report to paint a different picture then what probably happened.
I just can't see a guy in a cast possibly on crutches being a serious threat unless he's waving his crutches around in a threatening manner. If that was the case, I'm certain it would have been mentioned.
If a guy is hobbling over (which he shouldnt do to start with) is there any reason to shove him to the ground? I don't know because I wasn't there. I can only go off what's reported to me. But, when what's being reported to me sounds sketchy at best, it leaves me wondering.
This makes FSU look bad and it's unfortunate and should not be tolerated.
However, I disagree with the statement Bowden has lost control over one incident this year. While this is embarrassing to the school and as a fan, there have been worse and more numerous other instances @ other schools this year. Yeah, two of our guys messed up but some schools could fill up their own lineup this year so I'm not sure how many people have room to take cheap shots @ FSU.
Jon said:
posted on September 22, 2007 10:50 AM — 68.84.19.20 — link — abuse?
I just can't see a guy in a cast possibly on crutches being a serious threat unless he's waving his crutches around in a threatening manner. If that was the case, I'm certain it would have been mentioned.
When you are in the process of arresting someone and you tell someone to stay back. A friend of the arrested none-the-less, with two 6 feet (super-hard-lightweight) rods made of titanium. You don't see the threat?
I wish you had the opportunity to watch some of the training videos law enforcement gets shown during their training. Right now you don't see why, but after you have seen someone get their head knocked off and beat to death with crutches, then you would get it. All I can tell you man is if you went through the training and had to work with the dark side *trust me*, you would feel differently.
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 22, 2007 11:03 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
Jon #30:
Trust me, I've gone through plenty of training.
Again, someone simply being on crutches is not a threat UNLESS he is showing signs of using them as weapons. Was that mentioned in the report? NO. There was NO mention of him showing signs of using the crutches as weapons. If he was showing signs of using weapons, it would have been reported, he would have been taken down, tasered, and arrested.
So again, a man in a cast is NOT RUNNING @ anyone.
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 22, 2007 11:10 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
ALSO...................
I DO FIND THIS INTERESTING..........
"In late February, TPD began an internal-affairs investigation into Petroczky and another officer to determine whether they used excessive force in the arrests of two Florida A&M University students after a party. One of the students lost three teeth after hitting his face on the pavement while in police custody.
The investigation was dropped "because there was nothing to substantiate the claim,” said David McCranie, spokesman for TPD."
So this guy may have a history of suspect handling of situations.
Interesting considering he shoved a guy in a cast and on crutches to the ground. That of course, is after he reported the man on crutches and in a cast RAN and charged at him.
http://tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007709220331
Again, it leaves reasonable doubt in my mind the events haven't been completely revealed.
The players are still in the wrong but, there's more too this.
gatorhippy
posted on September 22, 2007 11:20 AM — 70.121.185.56 — link — abuse? said:
1 & nole (#31 & 32):
You keep saying Surratt was on crutches...
There's no mention of crutches anywhere...
Joe certainly was in a cast, but not necessarily on crutches...
I don't think there is necessarily anything more to it at all...
Hayes caused a scene, adavanced in a threatening manner towards police and was subsequently taken down and subdued by force after failing to comply and resisting arrest...
Surratt advanced upon officers arresting Hayes was told to step back and failed to comply in a timely manner and was informed he would be arrested at which point he resisted in a manner which resulted in the injury of a police officer...
That's pretty much it...
gatorhippy
posted on September 22, 2007 11:22 AM — 70.121.185.56 — link — abuse? said:
In retrospect...
I would say the TPD used decidely more discretion with the injured Surratt considering only Hayes was tasered and the fact that Surratt actually received the felony charge of battery on a police officer...
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 22, 2007 11:27 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
I'm not talking about Geno. Geno got what he deserved. I think Surratt was handled very poorly by the officers.
Ok, lets assume Surratt was NOT on crutches. He was in a cast.
So, Surratt in a cast is still not RUNNING @ anyone. Since he has no crutches, he has no weapons.
It was reported Surratt was attempting to comply with the officers orders to "step back" but was slowed by him NOT BEING MOBILE AND IN A CAST (funny considering the officers claimed he RAN and charged an officer) and then was shoved to the ground by the officer.
Again, it sounds very possible the officers handled Surratt very poorly and with too much force and tweaked the report to justify things.
This particular officer has a history of questionable handling of situations which only further questions the validity of the reports regarding Surratt.
gatorhippy
posted on September 22, 2007 11:59 AM — 70.121.185.56 — link — abuse? said:
1st_&_Nole (#35):
In the end, I guess the Surratt part would determine exactly how many times "several times" encompasses...
10? 5? 2?
Over the course of how much time?
10 seconds? 20? 30? An entire minute?
If it was between 30 seconds and a minute, Surratt certainly would have had enough time to display an attempt to back off even with a cast on his legs...
None of us will ever really know considering we weren't there...
How ever long it was, obviously it wasn't quick enough for TPD's satisfaction...
;-]
As I pointed out in #33, though...
Considering Surratt actually STRUCK one of the officers while attempting to resist arrest coupled with the fact that he was NOT tasered while Hayes was demonstrates TPD's consideration of Surratt's injury and the use of considerably less force than what was used on Hayes...
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 22, 2007 12:25 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
I guess one would have to consider the amount of time the officers gave Surratt to back up.
If it wasn't long enough and the officer didn't give Surratt ample time to back off and proceeded to shove Surratt to the ground... I can see how Surratt may feel the officer was using excessive force and possibly "attacking" him. Which, after him seeing Geno be tasered (and rightfully so) he felt he may have been in danger of also being tasered but for no valid reason. In which, he struck the officer after he was on the ground.
I'm not excusing anything about Surratt striking an officer. I'm simply saying I can understand his possible thought process in the situation which lead him to do so.
Did the officers give Surratt enough time to back up? I don't know but, given their claim of Surratt running and charging an officer... I'm inclined to say no.
The fact the officer has a record certainly doesn't help my doubts of how Surratt was handled.
The bottom line is this...
The players are CLEARLY in the wrong. No question. However, that doesn't mean to a degree the officers ALSO aren't in the wrong. I'm simply pointing out there's a very real POSSIBILITY the officer handled the situation poorly and is also in the wrong - to a degree.
Jon said:
posted on September 22, 2007 12:50 PM — 68.84.19.20 — link — abuse?
I'm simply pointing out there's a very real POSSIBILITY the officer handled the situation poorly and is also in the wrong - to a degree.
Yes. And I will give the benefit of the doubt to the officers unless they did something much different than what any reasonable human being (with their level of training) would do in that situation... It is a lot easier to sit here, read a report and play Monday morning QB. The reality is, out of all the use of forces, odds are greatly in favor that the officers did exactly what they were supposed to do. Split second decisions require split second reactions. All the training in the world will not prepare you for the infinite circumstances that exist. Sometimes you have to put your faith in the character of people, understand there is going to be errors and trust they are making reasonable decisions. IMHO, that fact that you are willing to start questioning/judging them through the little information we have reflects on how skewed your (and society in general) view of law enforcement is.
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 22, 2007 1:16 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
Jon #38:
Hmmm. That's a pretty interesting comment.
"IMHO, that fact that you are willing to start questioning/judging them through the little information we have reflects on how skewed your (and society in general) view of law enforcement is."
Funny you should say that Jon. I mean, you question my opinion on the police report due to the little information we have yet...
You take the liberty to question my "view of law enforcement" with even less information about me.
Sounds like a very hypocritical statement to me.
Please, explain my view of law enforcement, since you seem to think you have such an outstanding idea.
The fact is, you DON'T have an idea.
Since you have made assumptions without having any information at all, I'll give you some information.
I served in the Marines right out of high school. So yes, I have an idea how hard it is to make split second decisions in tough situations. I choose not to re-enlist in order to pursue a college degree and I was honorably discharged in March. I probably know several, several hundred guys I served with that are now in law enforcement after their time in the military. I know many, many cops and I have the utmost respect for what they do. They are unsung everyday heros. They're at war 24/7 365 and they never know what to expect day to day. I'm not attempting to bash law enforcement everywhere or even the TPD.
However, when there are such OBVIOUS flaws in the reporting of the situation, I'm going to question the full validity of it. Officers can mishandle situations and make mistakes too. To me, given the information provided pretty clearly doesn't add up, it's enough bring up the possibility of the officers also being in the wrong. Given the flaws in the report and past investigations of one of the officers, it's hard for me personally to simply GIVE them the benefit of the doubt.
If that means I have a "skewed view of law enforcement" then so be it.
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 22, 2007 2:54 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
Most people can't run in a cast due to the fact... it prevents your leg from bending or moving much. He can't bend his knee. It's hard to run if you can't bend your knee. It doesn't really matter that he's a football player. You simply can't "run" without being able to bend your knee.
Zac said:
posted on September 22, 2007 5:33 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
GH, what do you do for a living??? Given your Post #20, not to mention several discussions I've witnessed your involvement in, I just hasta know.
Were it not for the update, I'd have to ask one of my usual silly questions. This one being, what on earth is "…resisting an officer without violence"??? Just imagine that exchange.
Perp: What are you doing their, playing Mark Furman? Leave my friend alone.
Cop: Son, you need to back off right now. I'm handling this.
Perp: Back off my a$$. You let my friend go.
Cop: Son, if you don't cooperate with me, I'm going to have to do something marginally legal.
Perp: Well if you try to do anything marginally legal with me, I'll have to do something non-violent with you.
Cop: Son, threatening an officer with non-violence is marginally illegal. I'll be within my rights to arrest you if you don't do anything.
Perp: Damn right I won't do anything. I'm just going to stand here and be uncooperative.
Cop: A HA!!! I've got you now. (Imagine Darth Vader's voice.) Being uncooperative leads to defiance; defiance leads to resistance; resistance leads to anarchy, and anarchy leads to chaos. I'll have to arrest you for resistance before the world goes to hell.
Perp: Arrest me??? But, I didn't do anything.
Cop: Exactly!!! U in a heap o trouble, boy. Up against the car and spread em.
Perp: Where's Johnny Cochran when you need him?
Big Tide said:
posted on September 22, 2007 8:52 PM — 12.208.88.211 — link — abuse?
1st and NOLE,
My comment concerning "loss of control" had more to do with the state of the football team than this one incident. Who knows if the cops were harder on these guys than they may have been with an average student or citizen? Either way BB is past his prime as a coach. Many of the players that have come to FSU as top recruits have not worked out or reached their original potential. Xavier is just one of many "Mr. Football" recruits that haven't made. Bobby was able to take a basketball player like Charlie Ward and make him into a Heisman winner and he can't get Xavier in the game somewhere? Move the guy to D-back or something, but get him on the field. That's a lot of athletic ability to just be standing on the sideline. Remember when Wyatt Sexton finished off one season very strong and then suddenly was wandering down the street in his underwear. Everyone was told it was some medical condition but it sounded like a bad acid trip. Many FSU supporters and fans were shocked that BB installed his son Jeff as OC, knowing that he would find it hard to fire his own son if the offense sputtered, which is exactly what happened. At least with the changes that BB has made this year on his coaching staff it does appear that he is serious about turning things around, but besides Jimbo it's still the good ol' boy club. He's got Terry there as an unpaid assistant, Chuck the Chest has come back back home and Mickey's been there so long that it's like he and Bobby are married. Anyway, BB can't coach forever so what's the point in dragging it out? They've named the field after him, he's got a statue out front, it is just going to be sad for his final season to be a 6-5 or worse. Just my opinion - for what it's worth.
Jon said:
posted on September 22, 2007 9:32 PM — 68.84.19.20 — link — abuse?
"resisting an officer without violence"
= protesting in front of the capital (Cindy Sheehan style), being ordered to leave, refusing and sitting down and making the officer physically move you.
The jackass UF student who got tazed was walking a thin line between resisting with/without violence, because when he started jumping around and attempting to run back and ask his question (as officers dragged him out), he escalated his physical resistance and it could be possibly construed as violence.
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on September 22, 2007 10:47 PM — 74.185.133.40 — link — abuse?
In my limited experience (i.e. I've never been arrested), police always make themselves sound completely professional in their written reports, but their actions at the scene are often inflammatory. I've seen numerous public altercations made worse by police officers actions. Not that I'm defending the players in question or have any experience with the TPD.
FWIW, that kid in Gainesville is a different example. He should have been permitted to speak his peace without police intervention (another example of police making matters worse) though he did appear to be resisting arrest and earned a tazer shock, IMHO.
posted on September 24, 2007 7:54 PM — link — abuse? said:
FWIW - Geno Hayes practiced today with the FSU football team. HC Bobby Bowden said the that he would not address the incident or Hayes status for the Alabama game until Wednesday.
I truly hope that FSU suspends him from 'Bama, even if it costs the 'Noles the game.
Or, they could suspend him Florida Gator style and make him sit for the Duke game. :)
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 24, 2007 9:34 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
I have mixed feelings.
Yes, it's only a misdemeanor and isn't that serious of an offense.
On the other hand, he did something insanely stupid and needs to learn to show better judgment.
What's the going rate for misdemeanors this year as far as suspensions??? What have other schools done discipline wise for suspensions this year?
1st_and_NOLE
posted on September 25, 2007 10:07 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
"Hayes will also attend behavioral counseling and perform community service in addition to other internal coach's disciplinary actions."
Well, I think that's the most important thing. If Hayes has a problem with behavioral or anger problems I think it's an important and good thing to make sure he gets the help he needs. I'm very pleased with that part of the punishment. Also, community service will be a lesson well learned.
As far as playing time is concerned...
I'm not sure. I think it depends on the amount of playing time he gets. In other words, if he's going to be demoted to 2nd team - only give him second team mins. Don't make him a "back up" simply because he won't "start" but then turn around and give him starter's PT. I guess that will remain to be seen.
Considering the charges are misdemeanors, I think counseling, community service, and hopefully a true loss of playing time is a decent/good punishment. I'm guessing "other internal coach's disciplinary actions" means there will be plenty of stadium steps on top of the rest.
gatorhippy
posted on September 26, 2007 5:36 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
Canes 305 over at allcanesblog.com punts Bobby Bowden square in the nuts over his punishment (or lack of punishment) of Geno "Taze" Hayes...
http://www.allcanes.com/blog/2007/09/you-reap-what-you-sow.html
Can't say I necessarily disagree with him on this...
And I rarely see eye to eye with Canes305...
But this he has nailed...
Jon said:
posted on September 26, 2007 8:03 PM — 68.84.19.20 — link — abuse?
A team can follow any guidance it chooses. They could boot him just for being arrested, if they wanted. Being found guilty -- as much as I hate to say it -- has very little to do with the issue.
Very interesting. After reading a few scenarios, seems like most teams act off of the initial preponderance of evidence, regardless whether the player pleads guilty or not guilty. One day someone is going to come back "not-guilty", have their NFL draft status greatly hindered by a program acting prematurely and suspending them and legally have a program by the balls.
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Kevin Donahue 
said:
posted on September 21, 2007 11:54 AM — link — abuse?And here I was hoping FSU could make it a full season without an arrest... or a taser.