February 10, 2008
FSU serves up cupcakes, walks away from a fight
To the Seminole nation - this is going to sting a little.
In light of the suspensions from last season's cheating scandal, FSU has altered its schedule and will play two DI-AA teams in the same season for the first time since 1988.
But Bowden acknowledged that wasn't an option this season because of FSU's investigation into academic fraud, which will leave his team without several starters for the first three games of 2008."We had to give up a Monday night game, which I hated to give up because of the [lost] exposure," Bowden said this week. "But there's no way we would be ready to play a ranked team at that time."
To his credit, Bowden built FSU into one of the greatest programs of the late 1980's and 1990's with one simple mantra - anyone, anywhere, any time. And it is that reputation that makes this schedule change all the more disappointing.
With one quote, Florida State coach Bobby Bowden all but conceded that he is playing for "the record". He is walking the sidelines for wins. He is running in the ring, trying to stay on his feet until the bell. He is trying to outlast Joe Paterno.
Not enough time to get ready for a ranked opponent? Puh-leeze. You've got all spring, summer and early fall to get ready, coach. That is a poor excuse, especially from one of the greatest coaches of all time.
And who said anything about a ranked opponent?! Hell, *any* FBS team would suffice, but the Seminoles didn't go down that road. They *chose* to schedule two cupcakes. They chose it.
I cannot help but recall the immortal words of President John F. Kennedy...
"But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?
"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."
FSU is choosing to schedule D-IAAs because they are easy, because the goal will not measure their skills, and because they are not willing to accept a greater challenge. And the whole thing just about makes me sick to my stomach.
Maybe Bowden had a sit down with Roberto Duran during the off-season. No mas. No mas.
FSU homers will try to dodge the subject by pointing to the Gators eight DI-AA games in the last twenty years versus FSU's three during that same span. Don't. Just don't.
This isn't about history - this is about now. This is about the future. This is about who FSU is and how we will remember Bobby Bowden - the man who told us just a few months ago that he didn't back down and wasn't about to start.
Umm... yeah. About that....
Florida State has lost an awful lot of games in the last seven years, but they never walked away from a fight... until now.
Comments:
Zac said:
posted on February 10, 2008 10:01 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
I've had my issues with the "strength of schedule" philosophy. It's not only hurt my alma mater on occasion (kept them out of a NC game once), but it's also hurt other teams. I remember a 9-2 VA Tech not being invited to a bowl because of what was perceived as a poor strength of schedule. Recently, Hawaii was ripped in the polls because of it.
For one, most teams are locked into conferences, and no given team can help the fact that their conference might be down that year, or is not among the "Big 6" (ACC, Big-12, Big East, Big Ten, Pac 10, SEC).
For another, in recent years I've seen some better than average teams come into prominence; their schedules set in advance, and a team backs out because they don't want their hats handed to them. Now this team has an open home date with no one to play. So they take the 1st team willing to come. Nine times out of ten, that's a 1-AA team looking for a Top-25 1-A team to play (It helps with their recruiting.). It looks great for them, but bad for our hero.
Finally, what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander. We all know, year after year, specific teams have always been media darlings. While some fade in an out as decades role by, there are always those few who remain in the lime-light. They can do no wrong; that includes scheduling patsies in their non-conference slots.
Therefore, I can't see being disappointed with FSU just because they've got a couple of tune-ups or built in wins on their schedule. They're just doing what most everybody else, within the big 6, is doing. That having been said, FSU has in my view always been the trend setter; they've never been the one to follow the crowd. That in of itself is what I find disappointing. Just a thought.
OU-Ron
posted on February 10, 2008 10:07 AM — 68.12.216.68 — link — abuse?
said:
I think I would let BB slide on this one, it’s not like he does this every year and he has the record to prove it.
I can’t remember any other school losing as many players as FSU did at any one time unless they were in an accident like Marshall.
Most all other schools schedule cupcake games to start the season, I’m not saying its right, but it’s not like it’s something new.
I guess the biggest downfall would be if he lost one or even both of those first two games, that could be the beginning of the end ( if it’s not already started )
Zac said:
posted on February 10, 2008 10:25 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
By the way, Kevin, no doubt you've heard about 3 WVU players having been suspended for dealings involving Marijuana. In fact, one of them had a Kilo, scale, bags, etc at his apartment; Mary-Jane or no, we're talking big time Felony distribution here. The judge involved will likely come down hard on these 3.
Now, none were starters; one was a key back-up; the other 2 were occasionally-used back-ups, and it is off-season. Most are singing Bill Stewart praises for being decisive and consistent. I can't help wondering what might happen were this to involve Pat White or Noel Devine during the regular season. I'd like to think Bill Stewart would not play favorites. What are your thoughts?
1st_and_NOLE
posted on February 10, 2008 10:50 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
OU-Ron #4:
Thank you for that perspective.
I really like that people will somehow find a way to take shots at FSU for doing this.To me that proves one thing: FSU has held it's self to a higher standard (along with Miami) in regards to OOC scheduling then any other major program.
This is something most major programs do ANNUALLY. Except, if FSU does it ONCE in 20 years, it's suddenly a topic of discussion. FSU raised the bar in scheduling OOC games.
Do I have a problem with it this year? No. Why? Because it's happening ONCE in 20 years.
Now, if I felt this was going to happen again next year or the year after and become a regular thing I'd be very upset.
We played our bowl game with close to half the team missing. We put up a damn good fight and was in a position to win. I was in Nashville for the game and we had guys from the SCOUT TEAM playing (they didn't even have names on their uniforms). We didn't "back down" from that fight.
I think there's a difference between backing down from a fight and picking and choosing a fight.
If we have to "be like everybody else" for one year, I'm OK with that. However, it better only be this one year.
posted on February 10, 2008 11:13 AM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue
said:
If we have to "be like everybody else" for one year, I'm OK with that.
I'm clearly in the opposite camp. We have very few laurels left to rest on. It's time to load up and start running the gauntlets again. With all due respect, FSU shouldn't have games with Rice, Troy, et al.
Illinois, Southern Miss, Wisconsin, Syracuse, and Louisville all had open dates and could have been worked into the schedule and we didn't even reach out to them.
Scheduling one DI-AA would have been very difficult to stomach. Having two on the schedule is ABSOLUTELY unacceptable.
1st_and_NOLE
posted on February 10, 2008 11:28 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
The Seminole fan base doesn't like losing. We have great tradition.
It's no secrete *some boosters* (myself included) have not been happy with the direction of the program over the past several years. We even went so far as to paid off a completely incompetent OC, to the tune of half a mill, to help right the ship. I think we've made great moves hiring assistant coaches to help turn this thing around and we should start seeing the improvement over the next 2-3 years.
However, it's no secrete this past year was a huge disappointment for everyone. I could see some improvements in the team but obviously things had gotten worse within the program then we thought. I think most felt the new coaches would be a "quick fix." It looks like the new coaches will need another couple years to get things headed right (I believe they are).
The point being, going all out the first 3 games of the year with the severity of the suspensions we have coming and most likely starting off 0-3 won't help anything - especially in the eyes of major boosters.
There are plans in the works of FSU building a brand new state-of-the-art indoor practice facility OR build a retractable roof over Doak - either project is projecting to cost $20,000,000.00 or more. Who's paying for that? Boosters. What makes boosters happy when trying to raise 20 million bucks? WINS.
I'd LOVE the fact FSU plays anyone, anytime, anywhere but in the 2008 season that would be suicidal. College football is a business unfortunately and this (however unfortunate it may be) is strictly a "business decision."
silverfox said:
posted on February 10, 2008 3:05 PM — 4.247.125.169 — link — abuse?
There's nothing new here. Bowden (and the NCAA) has been counting a total of 47, count 'em - 47, Div. 1-AA "wins" as a part of his "winningest 1-A" coach" mantra. University of Mexico? Gimme a break... But, what the hey...in the 21st Century if you can cop a home run record on steroids, what's a small matter of playing a couple of patsies to pad the wins record. Everybody's doing it.
It's true...he made an incalculable contribution to FSU, and is without question one of the great coaches of all time. But this fixation of having to be #1 at something...without earning it legitimately, is bogus.
Big Tide said:
posted on February 10, 2008 3:07 PM — 69.34.227.69 — link — abuse?
I know you 'Noles are tired of this Bammer commenting on your football program, but as someone who's attented 3 dozen or more games at Doak Campbell over the years this is just one more sign that things just arent' what they used to be. Nothing more - nothing less.
The direction of the program, that ATTITUDE Bowden used to bring to a Saturday showdown is just not there. I remember sitting in Jordan Hare back in the 80's watching Bowden fake a 4th and 2 over the top from his own 27 and hit the wide receiver on the fly for TD. We were sitting down low on the Auburn side and I can still see Coach Dye's face and that's been 25 years ago. He couldn't believe what he just saw. THAT'S BRASS B**** DADDY!! And then the following year at Doak Campbell Auburn won 42-41 in what is still the most exciting football game I've ever wintessed.
Now Bowden has become all respectable and their head coach is worried about who they play and the fact they might not be ready? What? What? You don't want to play anyone and get blown out? What?
Come on Bobby, you aren't HUNGRY ANYMORE. You don't have the fire in your belly to stand up and say "We will play anybody, anywhere, anytime!! I took my daughter over to the Wake Forest game in 2004 or 2005 and we got her picture taken with Chief O and that damn horse and we saw the glitter twins running around. We also ate some lunch inside the AC restaurant area inside one of the nicest stadiums in the country and it was like being at Disney World. All the time I was remembering going there as a kid and the only "FANS" you saw were students and people who truly loved the University. The bleachers were metal and my Dad would tell me how they had to start running once they went under the road and through the tunnel over to the practice field when he played there. Back then FSU was nothing outside of Florida (truth be known the circus was more popular than the football team!)and not much inside the state either (although they did play Alabama to a tie several years before Bowden arrived), but Bowden changed all of that through his WILL and ATTITUDE. That day back in 2004 or 2005 Wake Forest ran out of steam in the second half but they played so tough and it wasn't hard to predict the team they would bring back the next time would be have blood in its eyes considering almost all the starters were freshman and sophmores and they played their hearts out, while FSU had penalities and just generally went through the motions.
Maybe the coach in waiting is the answer, but I think it is going to take an entirely new staff. Anyway, what's going on in Talahassee is hard to get a handle on. It's like a bad odor - you can't see it, not sure where it's coming from, but you sure as hell know it's there......
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on February 10, 2008 3:47 PM — 216.10.193.22 — link — abuse?
I don't really have a problem with BB scheduling some patsies to open the season. As already noted by others, practically every other teams in the NCAA does this. It is a little disappointing that Bowden, who built his team and his personal reputation on playing tougher competition, would make this move now to avoid losses during player suspensions.
It's nice to see that Bobby's "halo" is looking a little tarnished from the perspective of the sports media (at least, here in FL). I've lived through years of writers like Mike Bianchi villifying Spurrier and the succession of Miami coaches, while hailing Bowden as some sort of infallible, football genious. For so long, he shrugged off any controversy with "aw shucks" and the media gave him a pass. That seemed to change with the Adrian McPherson scandal and Bowden has taken more responsibility for problems since, though the media has continued to let him slide (until now, apparently).
thechad71 said:
posted on February 10, 2008 7:47 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
well us cards have a open date to fill we would love to play florida state and we would come to tallahassse to play or you all just scared of still piss the last time we play you all remeber sept 26 2002 cards 26-20
posted on February 10, 2008 8:48 PM — link — abuse? said:
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the night that the Heavens opened and God cried.
Big Tide said:
posted on February 10, 2008 9:01 PM — 12.208.88.211 — link — abuse?
Thanks for the link Kevin. You run the tightest ship in the blog business. Sorry for that novel I posted earlier, but I am ready to see something fresh in 'Nole land. My frustration is sincere, not the offhanded below the belt variety.....
gatorhippy
posted on February 11, 2008 7:19 AM — 70.121.110.84 — link — abuse? said:
Couple of points on this...
The D-1AA are noting idffernt than anybody else is doing...
However...
Did moving the Clemson game REALLY make any difference?
Between the Tiger and Deacon games, FSU will still likely split those two games at best but still stand a highly likely chance to go Ohfer in those two games...
Clemson, regardless of when they are played, is going to be a tough game for the Noles...
And even though it seems Wake will be heading to a more traditional result for their season this year...
Bowden just opened the door for Grobe to pound the Noles for the third straight year even with a two game warm up for the starting back ups given the Noles will only STILL have 12 scholarship players for their ACC opener...
gatorhippy
posted on February 11, 2008 7:28 AM — 70.121.110.84 — link — abuse? said:
1&Nole/SemiNat (#8):
College football is a business unfortunately and this (however unfortunate it may be) is strictly a "business decision."
And this "business decision" just caused a lot of people in Tally to lose alot of money on Labor Day weekend...
Rather than the town being swelled to capacity in hotel rooms, restauraunts, etc. for 3-4 nights through Labor Day weekend...
Many of the businesses will lose money for the Clemson game as their will be decidedly less nights spent in Tally by out of towner FSU fans as most will arrive on Friday now and more than likely only stay two evenings...
This will cause even less money to flow into town than expected if the Noles are floundering by Nov. 8 and the Clemson game becomes irrelevant in ACC play for FSU...
Lennie Collins
posted on February 11, 2008 10:43 AM — 68.92.148.40 — link — abuse? said:
I see not only Florida State but alot of teams are doing this including the Oklahoma Sooners. Rather it is one OR two...I wish this "tradition" would stop. 119 Division 1-A schools and ya can't full your schedule with Duke, Baylor, Mississippi, Stanford, the lower tier schools?
TE
posted on February 11, 2008 10:50 AM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
Ahh...Hipster...Pointed-and accurate-analysis, there...
A lot of people are made or broken-as it were-by the relative enthusiasm shown by the fanbase for a team like FSU's schedule. Water it down, and watch the economic impact dwindle to a "trickle" as well.
I think Kevin is right on with his statements. Takes stones to say it about your own program, especially on a forum such as this, even more so in the position he's in, here.
Lennie Collins
posted on February 11, 2008 10:56 AM — 68.92.148.40 — link — abuse? said:
TE, Post #24, I could not imagine the exposure Oklahoma would get nationally and television if they put the "big" tier schools on their COMPLETE schedules. Don't add one and lower tier schools and think you're doing sumethin'! Teams go undefeated but the fans don't look at the teams they played BUT I do.
TE
posted on February 11, 2008 12:52 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
mikemcdollarmenu,
Joe Pa played the poorest of the poor D-1 programs during his time as a "Football God"...
That dude made his living on "William & Mary" and, "New Jersey South Turnpike Authority Memorial Technical College" and the like...
If ever there were a bigger charlatan amongst the all-time winningest coaches on the collegiate landscape, I haven't witnessed one more robust than Mr. Weekend @ Bernie's, himself...
AUTigerFan08 said:
posted on February 11, 2008 3:33 PM — 74.239.251.222 — link — abuse?
Isn't this the same guy that blasted Tubbs for taking them off their schedule and adding App.St.
Because they wouldn't be ready for a team like FSU at that time. What a Hippocrite(I think I speeled that right). Let the Brow beatings begin!!!!!!AUTigerFan08 said:
posted on February 11, 2008 3:34 PM — 74.239.251.222 — link — abuse?
Isn't this the same guy that blasted Tubbs for taking them off their schedule and adding App.St.
Because they wouldn't be ready for a team like FSU at that time. What a Hippocrite(I think I spelled that right). Let the Brow beatings begin!!!!!!
posted on February 11, 2008 5:02 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
"Why does Rice play Texas?" Okay, I admit I thought Kevin was making that part up about the JFK speech, but I looked it up and it is true. He happened to be giving the speech to Rice University, so that's where that shout-out comes from.
If I was his speech writer and we weren't addressing Rice university, I might have asked "Why does NAVY play Notre Dame?"
Seems that FSU fans are the ones taking it the hardest. Rightfully so. If the team struggles this year, they may be cutting it close for having enough 1-A wins to be bowl eligible.
I'm one who firmly believes that Bowden has the right to coach until he damn well pleases, but I wouldn't feel that way if I knew he was loading up the schedule with cupcakes so he can pad his record. I do not believe that is the case here though.
I'd love for Auburn and FSU to bury the hatchet and pick up a series now and then though...
TE: I think the last time PSU played William and Mary, Mary was lame with a pulled hamstring and couldn't play, otherwise they might have made it close...
TampaGator said:
posted on February 11, 2008 5:37 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
Kevin:
Tip o' the hat to you for calling out your own alma mater on this one, rather than trying to obscure it, defend it, or spin it.
That said, I gotta' take exception to the side swipe at UF, on a couple of grounds:
1st: of the 8 D-2's in the last 20 years you cited, at least 1 was not by choice--last year's. UCF bailed at last minute (after 49-0 schlacking), and left UF with a void to fill(Western KY--was naturally ready willing and available.
2nd: Only one of those years--1988--(that's going the full 20 back)--had 2 D-II's in same year. It should be noted that in 1988, UF was reeling from significant NCAA sanctions--while UM and FSU--it's natural (and tehrefore arch) recruiting rivals--were peaking ('87 UM=Nat'l Champs, and going into '88, FSU was ranked #1).
3rd: During that period--including '88--UF still played SEC schedule, + FSU.
I understand the "side swipe" was in anticipation of UF being cited as precedent, and that you're admonishing your Seminole brethren against that; however, without clarification as to the grounds for your admonition, the natural inference is that UF is somehow the model for success via "fluffy schedule"--an inference that cannot withstand scrutiny, in light of SEC schedule.
_________________________________________________
That said, I also think you're being a bit tough on Bowden. As suggested above, UF plays in SEC; OOC cupcakes are necessary, when you play in a tough confernce (NECESSARY--NOT A LUXURY!)Bowden isn't abandoning prior principles; he's adapting to a changing environment.
20 years ago FSU didn't play in a conference; it had to get decent games where it could.
15 years ago (or so), FSU joined a basketball conference.
5 years ago (or so), V Tech, Boston College, and Miami (FB powers)--weren't in their conference; and now ACC has a championship game.
All that amounts to significant change in FSU's environment. Bowden's old model wasn't working in new environment; so he's adjusting what he can--his model. It's called adapting; that's a good thing (for FSU).
Frankly--as a Gator (being real here)--I'd rather he stayed stubborn and true to the archaic model that made him who his, since that model isn't suited for it's current environment.
We've been saying it for years--it ain't the same, playing a mickey mouse schedule sprinkled with big games, as it is playing in big league schedules sprinkled with cupcakes.Welcome to the bigs, FSU!
GO GATORS!!
posted on February 11, 2008 6:50 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Good points, T-Gator. I think the ACC is now a pretty tough conference. Things have changed considerably since FSU reeled off nine straight ACC titles in their first nine seasons in the conference.
I keep wondering when they'll win their next one. And when Miami will win it's first. Things in a real conference are a little tougher than you thought, wouldn't you say, Canes?
posted on February 11, 2008 8:02 PM — link — abuse? said:
I'm going to have to agree to disagree. Scheduling 2 DIAAs is an awful precedent. (Not only that, but it takes away my 'moral authority' to rip other schools for their schedule!)
@WEA - GREAT point about the bowl predicament that FSU now faces.
@TampaGator - Just pre-empting. We will not be casting stones for a long, long, long time - not after this schedule.
Tomcat said:
posted on February 11, 2008 8:29 PM — 66.142.89.118 — link — abuse?
#34 Ya Kev Your right Western Carolina & Chattanoga Aint atzactly powerhouse programs.
I know the Horns got alot of slack one year they played SHSU.It really doesnt do your program much good and could backfire on ya Ex { App St vs Mich}
I know a few years ago Texas A&M played Texas St{ formally known as SWT} and the Bobcats almost beat the Aggies. At least teams like Rice, La Laf or N Texas are Div-1-A.
Everybody on here was ragging N Texas mean Green, but heck at least they beat La Monroe-ouch Bama fans.
Looking foward to Wake vs Baylor in Waco
ought to be a good one as well as Ark vs UT
Hookem-Horns
Horns caught hell when they beat Ark St & UCF werent actzactly the blowouts anticipated
FSU had Bama & Colo last year both respectable teamsZac said:
posted on February 11, 2008 10:44 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
"Joe Pa played the poorest of the poor D-1 programs during his time as a "Football God"...
"That dude made his living on "William & Mary" and, "New Jersey South Turnpike Authority Memorial Technical College" and the like...
If ever there were a bigger charlatan amongst the all-time winningest coaches on the collegiate landscape, I haven't witnessed one more robust than Mr. Weekend @ Bernie's, himself..."
TE (Post 27), I beg to differ.
I did a little research. I would have like to have done a season-by-season determination; I couldn't find a link to provide that info. If you could help me with that, I think you'd realize the extent to which you were mistaken. (I know how unusual that is for you. But hey, it happens to you at a rate of what…almost 1/year? I think you were due.)
I used Kenneth Massey's rating system. I recall an earlier debate with Hotty Toddy or one of the other Ole Miss guru's, that Massey was based out of the south and tended to show some, however small, southern bias. Penn St being from the northeast, therefore, might not quite get the love so-to-speak from this rating system. In all honesty, I don't know how true that is, but it seemed logical enough.
I don't remember which year Penn St joined the Big Ten, so I arbitrarily started with 1970 and came forward to 1995, using Massey's Strength of Schedule rankings (highest possible being 1.000). This is what I discovered.
Between 1970 & 1995, Penn St's S.O.S. averaged 0.694. The National Champions' S.O.S. averaged 0.762 during the same period. The disparity is statistically significant; the NCs' S.O.S. was higher during that period. However, by comparison, it doesn't indicate Penn St's S.O.S. was weak.
Penn St's S.O.S., the 2 seasons it won NC's during that period, was 0.890 & 0.729 respectively, and each time was higher than the runner-up's S.O.S. The 2 seasons Penn St was runner-up, its S.O.S. was 0.950 & 0.729 respectively, both higher than the S.O.S. for those seasons' NC. In fact, during this 26 year stretch, Penn St's S.O.S. was higher than the NCs' S.O.S. 9 times, and on a 10th was statistically equal.
Now, I won't say William & Mary didn't appear on Joe Pa's schedule a time or 2, but that was likely the exception, not the rule. I think it is therefore safe to say, your assessment of Joe Pa's success with his team's S.O.S. is a wee bit exaggerated. Don't you agree?
hrposon said:
posted on February 12, 2008 12:13 AM — 98.200.123.115 — link — abuse?
@31 WEA - "Why does Rice play Texas?" was Kennedy's speech at Rice Stadium announcing that we would go to the moon by the end of the century because it was difficult. Actually, Rice didn't have a choice about playing Texas, they were both in the old Southwest conference.
A bit of trivia, Super Bowl VIII was also played in Rice Stadium. It's a nice classic old stadium.
As far as your proposed question, "Why does NAVY play Notre Dame?".
Notre Dame used to be, and probably still is the largest Navy ROTC school in the country. And when the government pays, they pay full freight for everything. It's good business...
posted on February 12, 2008 10:06 AM — link — abuse? said:
Just for grins - here's CFB Data Warehouse's update on Paterno's record by opponent. It's pretty good.
posted on February 12, 2008 10:48 AM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Yea, Ron, but none of those teams has played Paterno more than two times, so it's not really credible. It's like that ATM guy a few months ago, Army95, boasting that they were 2-0 against Auburn all-time. Well, spank my rear and call me Charlie!
Zac: FYI: All past and present conference affiliations are on the home page for every team on CFBDW.
Hrposen: I'd laugh MAO if Navy suddenlt said to ND: We're done now. Here's your buyout!
TE
posted on February 12, 2008 10:56 AM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
Paterno made his living for years the same way Notre Dame does now...
Schedule Michigan, schedule Notre Dame, schedule one-two other big games, and then get fat off of local intramural teams at Wellsley and playing juggernauts like Colgate.
I'm sorry, but that guy is a joke. He was also a closet racist for a long time, but the Northeastern media deified the guy. Once the guy went into the Big 10, their "dominant" status faded into the woodwork of the Big 10(11)...
Which we've all seen get punked out a tad bit lately...
Paterno's a fighter getting by solely on reputation, and before that, he was a guy who beat up on a lot of Peter McNeely's...
He's also put on the worst sort've of hubris-filled, narcissitic, while at the same time softly sad display we've seen in some time with his ridiculous "Coach Into The Grave Philosophy" for no other reason than chasing some record.
He's a joke, he's a charlatan, and he's an embarassment to Penn State.
Now, someone hold this soap box steady while I get down off of it...
Tomcat said:
posted on February 12, 2008 12:38 PM — 66.142.89.118 — link — abuse?
#41 TE Coaching records are interesting
When looking and comparing Joe Pa's records are quite impressive and I found that he has only faced Collgate and William & Mary one time each.
looking at J.Paterno- M. Brown- L. Miles against the same opponentsJ. Paterno
Tex 3-2
TTech 1-0
Neb 3-4
T A&M 3-1
OK 0-2
USC 4-3
M. Brown
TTech 8-2
Neb 6-1
T A&M 7-3
Ok St 10-0
OK 4-7
USC 2-0L. Miles
T Tech 1-3
Neb 1-1
T A&M 2-2
Tex 0-4
Ok 2-2
Nuff Said
interesting Kev That Joe Pa is vs FSU 1-1-1
Mack Brown is vs FSU 0-9
jonsey said:
posted on February 12, 2008 1:06 PM — 168.13.63.66 — link — abuse?
Bowden- he is going to ***STOMP*** Joe Pa for the record. you give FSU 2 years, you let the 2 true freshmen HB Debrale Smiley and DT Anthony McCloud get a lil experince. FSU is going all the way with these guys in a couple of years.
SMILEY FOR HEISMAN!!!!!!!!!!Jon said:
posted on February 12, 2008 1:22 PM — 68.84.19.20 — link — abuse?
IMHO - This is exactly what I would do if I was a team losing some of my starters for the first 3-games.
Why would I want to give someone the bragging rights of beating me while I was limping?
Lets go out on a limb (a long one) here and say FSU has a top 10 team this year.. but fails to qualify for a BCS game because they got their asses kicked in an early game while missing key starters. Nothing gets settled when two good teams play and one team is missing a bunch of starters. As a fan, if I had to choose between FSU beating UF with UF benching a significant portion of their starters and not playing UF altogether... I'd prefer not to play.. Because nothing gets settled when you play a handicapped team.
BTW - Kevy.. you going to owe this "local yokel" an apology coming up here soon when FSU avoids any "major" NCAA sanctions.
Zac said:
posted on February 12, 2008 1:48 PM — 209.36.193.14 — link — abuse?
Now, TE (Post 41), don't hold back; tell us what ya really think. While you're doing that, I think I'll just agree to disagree. It sounds to me as though something else about Joe Pa has gotten under your skin. I'm hearing more than just his record that's got you upset with him.
I'm here to tell ya; I've always admired the man. I even wanted to play for him. It didn't work out. I wound up at WVU where they hadn't beaten Joe Pa since 1956. I watched some of the best teams WVU could produce fail against his teams. More than once I’ve seen WVU beat 2 teams in the same season; both which beat Penn St. Yet, Penn St still beat WVU. Even when WVU had them dead-to-rights, they all too often found a way to win. I considered it a feat for WVU to beat Penn St twice in the same decade.
WVU ranks 17th all time in total # of wins; just ahead of Syracuse. Joe Pa played us both. Believe me; I have as much reason as anyone to be frustrated with the man. I won’t let that cloud the truth of his accomplishments. I wish you wouldn’t either, but for now, as you see fit.
gOSU27 said:
posted on February 12, 2008 3:26 PM — 207.74.25.36 — link — abuse?
#50: Rammer Jammer....You may be sensing a little bit of bitterness...but the trend for PSU the last few years has been letdown seasons. JoePa hasnt had the same recruiting touch as usual either...even if they get Pryor, it will not be anywhere close to Illinois, Michigan's, or Ohio State's classes.
TE
posted on February 12, 2008 4:16 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
JoePa's a joke...Here's a guy in his 80's talking about how "nice it is" to coach in the press-box...
We all KNOW this guy hasn't made a meaningful 4th down decision or substitution, or masterminded a gameplan since Britney was still wholesome...
As an aside: Guys, am I running the Britney references into the ground around here, lately? I keep finding myself drawn back to her...like a moth to a flame, seemingly...
posted on February 12, 2008 7:11 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
I think TE loves Britney, Zac. She is one of his Louisiana homerettes...
Do you remember how TE answered question #2 about Brittney or Christina in the Fanblogs Tiger Beat questionnaire??? I can't remember what thread that was in...
Tomcat said:
posted on February 12, 2008 7:24 PM — 66.142.89.118 — link — abuse?
WarEagleATL The Louisiana homeretta that I like is ole whats her name that played in Legally Blond
I think she won an Acedemy Award for some June Carter Cash Role-Yall help me on this one.
She's better lookin, has more talent and is not in the Nutt house like the one TE likes
Hookem-HornsTomcat said:
posted on February 12, 2008 11:56 PM — 69.154.241.166 — link — abuse?
Thank you Ramblin G Ya I've always liked her.
I first saw her in a film with Sam Waterson Man in the Moon. Filmed on the La-Tex border Sabine riverbottom. Thanks for the imfo Gator
Saw some gators last weekend, Tex Gators not Fla Gators
Hookem_HornsZac I thought she[Lynn} was a coal miners daughter KY or Tenn maybe, na man dont say WV
Adios Tomcatgatorhippy
posted on February 13, 2008 10:40 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
T-Cat (#63):
Lynn is from Butcher Hollow, KY...
Zac is referring to a song she did with Conwa Twitty entitled Louisiana Woman, Mississippi Man...
Click here for lyrics...
posted on February 13, 2008 10:49 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Lynn is from Kentucky. She never had much education, but it's hard to find a more original person in this country. My parents dragged me to a Loretta Lynn/Conway Twitty concert back in the late 1970s. Kinda proud to say I went, now...
Reese Witherspoon is from Tennessee. She kind of brought her southern accent back out for Sweet Home Alabama and Walk the Line. Although I'm a Southerner who haas no accent, I hate listening to a fake one. Give me the real thing anyday.
That's entertainment news, now back to sports!
AUtigerman said:
posted on February 13, 2008 12:53 PM — 129.61.46.16 — link — abuse?
After sitting through the Tennesse Tech game last year i think ill give up cupcakes.
Tubbs showed a lot of class taking the starters out after the third seris of downs. Of course it was already 21 nothing.I only went cause I wanted to see some of the backups play. That game was so Quiet you could hear a mouse fart.
Still must have been exciting for TennTech players to play in front of 80000 plus fans.
Also the money they made wasnt bad.
Now heres the problem that i see with playing some of these cupcake teams. Some teams (to save argument i wont mention names). Feel they need to run the score up. Even going so far as leaving there best players in till late in the game. That makes absolutly no since to me.
Zac said:
posted on February 13, 2008 1:37 PM — 209.36.193.14 — link — abuse?
AUtigerman (Glad you capitalized the "U"; I wasn't sure if you were AU Tiger Man or Auti-German; they both work.)
What Tubbs did kind of reminds me of what Rodriguez did against E WA 2 seasons ago. RB, Steve Slaton, was pulled after his 6th carry. QB, Pat White, was pulled before the end of the half. The entire 2nd half was played primarily with 3rd & 4th stringers, and a couple of 2nd stringers who needed the work.
posted on February 13, 2008 2:05 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Zac: Are you playing hooky from work today? A little cold in Nebraskeria? It's like freezing in Hotlanta today after mid 60s yesterday...
Tigerman: You sat through Tenn Tech? Man, I wouldn't watch that if they were playing in my back yard--much less to spend money on it.
A few years ago, Auburn was playing the mighty Akron Zips, and I had a large group I was thinking about taking.
I called up the ticket office on Friday and asked them that although it was last minute, did they have any tickets for the Akron game left over. Yes, they said.
So I told them that I had a large group I wanted to take and that I knew it was crazy to ask, but I needed three hundred tickets. Incredibly, they said that they did, and that they would discount the regular price by half if I bought that many.
So I gave the lady my credit card info, and before I hung up, I asked her what time the game started.
There was a long pause, then she said,"Well, What time can ya'll get here?"
apologies to Lewis Grizzard...
AUtigerman said:
posted on February 13, 2008 3:01 PM — 129.61.46.60 — link — abuse?
WEAI have season tickets and since i had to miss the Ole Miss and New Mexico St. games I thought id go on. All the people sitting around me have season tickets and i usually know most of them.
I didnt see anyone i knew that day...lol. It was actually a very big crowd but I left early to beat the crowd.
This year we get Tennesse Martin. I had never heard of them. I dont think I will make the four hour trip this time so if you need tickets let me know.
Have you ever seen Tenn. Tech play? They have AU identical uniforms. Probably will be a ton of interceptions.
posted on February 13, 2008 3:22 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Sec 39 is in the north end zone next to the visitors. Not bad. I'm sure you'll go to all the games I'd want to go to. I may get season tickets again myself--buying them from someone who holds them.
The one thing I won't do is sit in the upper decks. Honestly, I'd rather watch it from home if that was the case.
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on February 13, 2008 3:37 PM — 63.82.71.140 — link — abuse?
WEA, I know what you mean. I bought a 60" plasma TV last May in preparation for the upcoming season and regretting that I didn't do it before the Gators' three championship runs in the preceeding two years. Now, I don't know how many games I'll be attending in person from this point forward. I have a great view of the games and with my DVR I control my own replay booth. I don't have to deal with bad parking, bad food, uncomfortable seats, or obnoxious fans. With cable coverage, I got to see all of the good games anyway.
...not to mention the ever rising ticket prices.
Still I'm sure I will go to some games - I'd miss the real experience too much.
posted on February 13, 2008 4:15 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
I hear ya, Ramblin. Virtual football is getting more and more attractive, especially since I got the plasma HD w/ DVR, too. With the rewind live TV feature, if you're an Auburn fan, you never miss a chop block!
As far as the other advantages, there are many:
--Bathroom right down the hall instead of walking three hundred yards and stepping over three hundred people to get to it--handy when you're on 15 minute intervals after 12 beers.
--No worries about sneaking booze into the living room.
--No waiting for stadium announcer to give other scores. Just flip through other channels during the commercials of your game.
--Soft cushions on sofa. You don't have to worry about rigor mortis setting in on your ass from having sat on an aluminum bleacher for four straight hours...
--None of the "Down in Front" arguments when people in front of you block your view by standing up at the wrong time.
--Pretty sure that no drunks standing behind your couch are going to drop their drink and hot dog on your shoulder...
--Very little risk of getting stabbed by an errant shaker...
--Two words: ROOM TEMPERATURE...
--Can immediately pass out after a bad loss--in your own bed!
AUtigerman said:
posted on February 13, 2008 5:28 PM — 68.109.98.15 — link — abuse?
WEAI too just bought a Hi Def TV. I think I enjoyed watching the away games at home almost as much as being there.
This may be my last year as a ticket holder. I just couldnt pass up LSU, Tenn. Ark and Georgia at home.
With the price of gas and having to drive four hours one way it makes it tough. My nephew will be a senior next year so may be my last one.
The biggest disadvantage is missing the other games while on the road home. Thank goodness for DVR.
AUtigerman said:
posted on February 13, 2008 5:36 PM — 68.109.98.15 — link — abuse?
WeaI actually prefer the end zone. Im just a little too low. If you can get rows 25 to 35 I guarantee
youll like them as well as any seat in the house.My sister inlaw (Auburn Alum) ordered the tickets initailly for me. She just thought lower would be better. Problem is when they are on the other end of the field you have no depth perception. Inside the 40 coming our way best seats in the house.
Also the new jumbo screen is great.
posted on February 13, 2008 5:59 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Tigerman: The low seats offer a unique perspective. I sat on row 5 one time for a season, and you're right, it's hard to catch the action if it's too far away. We were having trouble seeing over the players.
Yea, the best seat in the house is on your couch, but there's so many things that you miss if you don't go...
You thought I was going to do another list, didn't you?
40 Acres of Burnt Orange
posted on February 14, 2008 8:16 AM — 192.94.94.105 — link — abuse? said:
What a shocker a former OU coach is being accused of recruiting violations. Here's a great book that all Texas and OU fans should check out:
http://www.amazon.com/Down-Dirty-Crimes-Oklahoma-Football/dp/0881846236/ref=pd_sim_b_title_2
HookEmHorns!
posted on February 14, 2008 11:11 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Yea, I saw that thread and those pics. They're kinda like our doppelganger. We've discussed on here before that it's probably impossible to copyright uniform styles. That's proof positive to that effect.
Ron: Don't make 40 Acres mad. He's liable to load his bullet on you...
Lennie Collins
posted on February 14, 2008 1:32 PM — 68.92.148.40 — link — abuse? said:
Forty Acres of Burnt Orange, Post #83, maybe they should read the 2006 Edition with all the Texas Longhorns players on the cover, you blind (edit)! I am sure that book was written by a Longhorns fan and most likely got nothing but one-sided opinions and photos in it anyways since Texas Longhorns football players don't grad-u-ate! Look at your program first and now before you blindly make fun of another. Trust me Oklahoma does not have to write a book on how those (edit) were getting arrested. The team just beat Texas on the field! Crimson and Cream True!
40 Acres of Burnt Orange
posted on February 14, 2008 2:34 PM — 192.94.94.106 — link — abuse? said:
Good to hear from you Lennie! Our guys may have gotten in a lot of trouble here recently. But the Sooners made an art of it back in the 80's. Must you always take everything anyone say's against the Boomer's so personally? 1988 was a great year to terrorize the campus up there in Norman especially by the football team! Too bad i didn't get to see you while i was down in Austin, Lennie. I can see just fine thanks for your concerns Lennie. Take care.
HookEmHorns!
40 Acres of Burnt Orange
posted on February 14, 2008 2:36 PM — 192.94.94.106 — link — abuse? said:
AUtigerman, i think having another team wearing the exact uniform as my team would make me mad enough to tear them a new one. Not like Auburn and Tenn-Martin was bound to be a close contest anyways!
HookEmHorns!
Lennie Collins
posted on February 14, 2008 2:43 PM — 68.92.148.40 — link — abuse? said:
Forty Acres of Burnt Orange Post #91, I don't take any of this junk personal. I laugh and will continue to be amazed with anyone, not just Longhorns Fans who can point out the bad in other teams and fail to see the bad in theirs! I would have and still would like to meet/start a friendship with you if or when you move to Austin. My friendships are not based on team preferences. I might have not said much to you last week due to the fact I had a serve sinus infection!
40 Acres of Burnt Orange
posted on February 14, 2008 2:53 PM — 192.94.94.106 — link — abuse? said:
Lennie i know where your true motives lie. I just like to see you get all worked up! But i do see the bad in my team I just like to poke fun at you Boomers sometimes. Take care Lennie hope your throat is feeling better.
HookEmHorns!
Lennie Collins
posted on February 14, 2008 3:00 PM — 68.92.148.40 — link — abuse? said:
Post #94, Forty Acres of Burnt Orange...the sinus cavities are over and under your eyes and ears. You will have headaches and you will feel as if you had a severe tooth/teeth ache. You will have lost of or limited hearing and blurred vision. I am back at 70%!
40 Acres of Burnt Orange
posted on February 14, 2008 3:32 PM — 192.94.94.105 — link — abuse? said:
Geez Lennie sounds pretty painful kind of like getting to experience getting maced and getting the tear gas while in the academy. That will definately screw up your sinuses. Hope you het to feeling better Lennie.
HookEmHorns
Lennie Collins
posted on February 14, 2008 5:10 PM — 68.92.148.40 — link — abuse? said:
Actually 40 Acres of Burnt Orange, Post #97, That is what helps sinus/nasal problems is "pepper" not the spice/seasoning. Unfortunely my digestive tract cannot handle it. To get back on the thread it seems that 2008 will be the year that many teams will schedule D-1AA schools/cupcakes. What da' ? I am very disappointed that Joseph would compromise his word and schedule Oklahoma with a D-1AA team. No excuse for any D1-A school to do it, N-O-N-E! I know Florida and Louisiana State won National Titles but I hope Oklahoma DOES NOT. I hope Oklahoma goes undefeated and is left out of the National Title Game and this will be the reason!
Zac said:
posted on February 14, 2008 6:27 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
AUtigerman, WarEagleA, 40 Acres-etc., didn't NC St sue some high school in Nevada or some place for just this sort of thing? Kevin posted many moons back, as I recall. Bet the chancellors at Auburn never gave it a thought.
How about that shooting at N IL. The bad news: It happened. The good news: Thus far, none of the victims have died.
posted on February 14, 2008 6:36 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
I think you're talking about schools suing over logos, Zac, not uniform designs. I just don't think you can copyright a uniform.
The Wolfpack logo was one, and I think the PSU Nittany lion logo was another--infringed upon by an elementary school, no less...
Remember the thread title? http://www.fanblogs.com/penn_state/007192.php
posted on February 14, 2008 7:07 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Lennie: I don't know who might own the design for many of the uniforms out there--probably no one, I would guess, except the school. Most of them are so plain and have been in existence for so long. I'm no attorney, but I would guess that a uniform must really stand out in uniqueness in order to hold a copyright, and I don't think a simple color combination would qualify either.
You have cases now, like with Oregon, where Nike is designing the uniforms, and perhaps they might attempt to copyright a unique design. As both of us know, those uniforms are definitely one-of-a-kind.
Logos are a different matter. Even know most of them in CFB are pretty archaic and simple--take Oklahoma's 'OU' design, or Auburn's 'AU', they've been around for so long and are so widely recognized, that they are able to be copyrighted. But they have to be unique in their design. You simply couldn't copyright two letters, O and U, for example. Only by intertwining them do you get a logo...
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schmed said:
posted on February 10, 2008 9:26 AM — 74.230.198.206 — link — abuse?LSU had August 30th open until last week and picked Applachian State when Texas Tech declined. Guess that was a non-starter for both sides 'cuz of the home game issue.
The downside risk you *didn't* mention is failing to actually beat the cupcakes. After teh Appy State Fur Trappers put wolverine skin on the wall last year, nobody can claim a DI-AA snuck up on 'em.