May 17, 2008
FSU President: Playoffs are "going to happen"
Florida State University president T.K. Wetherell rocked the boat at a college football panel last night, according to CBS Sportsline, saying that a college football playoff is inevitable.
After the other panel members (Ohio State coach Jim Tressel, Washington coach Ty Willingham, Kansas coach Mark Mangino, TCU coach Gary Patterson, Notre Dame athletic director Kevin White and Army athletic director Kevin Anderson) flatly rejected the notion that college football needs a playoff, Wetherell disagreed saying that it was essentially a matter of when, not if.
Getting his say at the very end, Wetherell turned the discussion upside down."In my judgment, if you take every argument that's been made today and apply it to any other sport on a college campus, then you'd have to cancel the (College) World Series, the Final Four, the soccer tournament," he said. "If you want to do it, it can be done. ...
"Everybody's going to be sitting here -- I don't know, probably not in my lifetime at Florida State -- saying, 'You know, we really could move this back. And, by the way, we do play 63 baseball games and we play baseball through two final-exam periods, not one. Somehow, they all seem to graduate and do pretty good. Oh, those basketball players, we have a real problems with academics in basketball, but we seem to play right on through the tournament.'"
Once the problems are solved and the "ungodly amount of money that it will produce" starts rolling in, Wetherell expects everyone decide it's a good thing and want more of it.
"It'll start off with plus-one, then it'll go to four or eight or 16 at some point in time - just like the NCAA (basketball) tournament," he said.
...
"Now, I don't think it's going to happen this year or next year or whenever. But it is going to happen. No doubt about it."
The BCS conferences rejected a proposal by the SEC to implement playoff system at the last meetings, meaning that any change to the current college football post-season will have to come after the 2014 season. The ACC was the only other conference to support the plan, in principle.
Wetherell indicated that the question of a playoff would continue to be supported by the ACC.
"If you said, take away the 12th game and go to 11 games, I bet 10 of them (ACC presidents) would (support a playoff)," Wetherell said.
Wetherell, who played wide receiver for the Seminoles, said the real issue is money and that the twelve-game schedule has solved the cash flow problem for most schools for the time being.
"We'll spend all that money. We're not going to bank it," Wetherell said. "Then the question will be, 'Where do I get me more money?'"A playoff will be the logical alternative, Wetherell said.
"And the fight won't be over whether we do it or not anymore," he said during a break following the session. "The fight's going to be on the split. It's going to be a totally different discussion."
To T.K.'s credit, you don't here many college presidents talking this frankly about the role of revenues in the discussion of college playoffs.
Just this week, the NCAA released its annual revenue report, which showed that only 19 of the 119 FBS athletic departments were self-sufficient financially in 2006. Perhaps more ominously, only three schools were in the black for a three-year period from 2004-2006.
The report also showed that for the 19 I-A athletic departments that showed a surplus in fiscal 2006, the average surplus was nearly $4.3 million, while among the 99 departments that showed a deficit that year, the average deficit was a little more than $8.9 million.
In other words, despite the success of football and/or basketball at schools across the country, even the most successful schools are barely scraping by in their athletic departments. Meanwhile, most of the top level schools are losing nearly $10 million dollars per year on athletics.
Maybe T.K.'s right and -- in the end -- college football playoffs are all about the money and it's a matter of when, not if.
Comments:
Zac said:
posted on May 17, 2008 9:49 PM — 209.36.193.14 — link — abuse?
A lot of people don’t realize the sad truth, that for most major colleges and universities, sports is a loosing proposition. It’s either due to lack of needed real funding, waste & poor managing, over spending (competitive salaries, superfluous facilities, new uniforms, etc.) or rising costs due to commodities, such as fuels (travel). It had already been discussed many moons back in a previous thread, that most Bowls don’t pay out enough to the participating teams to cover their expenses. The people running the Bowls, whether it’s through filling their respective stadiums, media coverage, advertising & endorsements, or any combination there-of, they’re the ones making the money.
Should a play-off eventually occur, it is due to the funding required for the respective schools, that no more than 10 teams should eventually be involved. In this way, a preliminary round and the quarter finals would be held on the field of the higher seeded teams. At least the home team might net some money from these games. The resulting semi-final & final would involve bowls with large pay-outs, where-by again, the participants may realize a profit. However, the big winners will be those running the bowls involved, and of course, the fans, the majority of whom have been asking for it.
Therefore, make no mistake. When it happens (I do believe it will eventually.), it will happen because those participants hosting the bowls will have found a way to make more money than they’re making now. It won’t happen because we the fans, for the most part, want to see it happen.
GatorMatt
posted on May 18, 2008 10:27 AM — 72.184.196.2 — link — abuse?
said:
#3,
That might be the dumbest statement ever. Wetherell is by far, one of the dumbest presidents to ever run a school. His decisions are influenced by the head football coach. While the FSU football program continues to lose money from lost booster support, lagging ticket sales, and what have you, he continues to employ Bobby, even though the man hasn't coached in 5 years. He allowed Bobby to hire his son, which is a case of nepotism. He blamed the entire cheating scandal on a "rogue tutor," so he didn't place blame on any of the players. I don't think that man has made one smart decision since his tenure as president
posted on May 18, 2008 11:04 AM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue
said:
GatorMatt - Care to give the backup for your statements??
- "... FSU football program continues to lose money..."
- "... lost booster support,"
- "... lagging ticket sales,"
- "... he allowed Bobby to hire his son..."
- "... blamed the entire cheating scandal on a "rogue tutor,""I feel fairly confident in saying that you aren't fully in touch with the facts.
posted on May 18, 2008 11:06 AM — link — abuse? said:
FSU has released the full trasncript of TK's comments:
"I'm a minority on this issue with my colleagues. In the ACC there are probably two schools, Florida State and Boston College, that are interested in a playoff system, whatever that happens to be. In my judgment, if you take every argument that's been made here today and apply it to any other sport on the college campus, then you'd have to cancel the World Series, the Final Four, the soccer tournament or whatever it happens to be.
So if you want to do it, it can be done. But what I think all of us are concerned about is the image of commercialization and that you're using these athletes in some way or these programs to make an ungodly amount of money, because it will produce, just like the NCAA Final Four or whatever tournament, an ungodly amount of money.
The reality is we will have a playoff at some point in time in some way. It will protect the Bowl system. The Bowl system is going to have problems. Boise is going to have a problem. If gas goes to five bucks a gallon, we can't afford to come play in Boise and we've got a deal. I'd like to play in Boise because I spend Christmas at my ranch in Montana, I can drive over there. I keep telling Coach Bowden, let's go to Boise. He says, boy, they don't play football on blue rugs.
The amount of money unfortunately is going to drive the train. The 12th game right now is solving the problem, and the reason there's a 12th game in football is the money. People may not want to admit that, but that's the facts of the matter. Talk to Kevin or any of these ADs. Take the 12th game away and then ask them to balance the budget. We're not playing the 12th game because the fans get to come and tailgate in FSU stadium or they enjoy driving up there to watch us whip up on Chattanooga, Tennessee, or somebody, I don't know who they are or where they are. That's being played strictly so we can make money, and if you look at what we're having to pay Chattanooga to drive there, it's kind of outrageous to look at it.
What'll happen is we'll spend all that money. We're not going to bank it. And coaches and athletic departments, they love to spend money. If you look at how much it's costing me to run my athletic department versus percentage increase versus the university, we're going to start at Florida State University with $50 million less this August than we started last August. Now, I'm not starting my athletic department with less money in August than I started last August. They did pretty good, and we only won seven or eight ball games.
So what will happen is they'll spend all the money, and then the options will be, where do I get me some more money. You TV guys are about tapped out. You can't do much more. Some of those smaller Bowls are about tapped out. Most of us can't afford at the big schools to go to a small Bowl.
Somebody has got to make that up, usually from the BCS Bowl and the redistribution in the conference, so it's going to run out of money. And everybody is going to be sitting here, probably not in my lifetime at Florida State, saying, you know, we really could move this back, and by the way, well, we do play 63 baseball games and we play baseball through two final exam periods, not one, and somehow they all seem to graduate and do pretty good. Or them basketball players, they've got a real problem with academics in basketball, but we seem to play right on through the tournament, and everybody is pretty happy.
It will get figured out. My guess is that the small Bowls will be a part of that system, and somehow that will be worked into it and it'll work itself out. It'll start off with a plus one, then we'll go to four or eight or sixteen at some point in time, just like the NCAA tournament started off at ... 16 and 32 and 64 and now somehow we bought the NIT (laughter), and I've got a sneaking hunch somewhere along the line it's going to go to 84 or 124 or something.
So it's not a question of if there's going to be a playoff, it's a question of when. And it's not a question of what's going to drive it; it's going to be driven by the money, but none of us sitting at this table, and particularly my colleagues, are ever going to admit that.
But they'll have to come running up here saying, Mr. President, I've got to have some money. And that's what got you the 11th game and that's what will get you a playoff in my judgment. Now, I don't think it's going to be this year or next year or whenever, but it is going to happen, no doubt about it."
Tomcat said:
posted on May 18, 2008 6:55 PM — 70.248.25.176 — link — abuse?
Thanx for the info, Was there any doubt about Notre Dame's stand or Ohio St's for that matter?
CFB playoffs are going to happen, its kinda like building dams & lakes.It might not happen in our lifetime, but its going to happen eventually.
Hookem-Horns
God bless our Troops
Take a kid fishing
Adios Tomcat40 Acres of Burnt Orange
posted on May 18, 2008 8:42 PM — 76.182.205.22 — link — abuse? said:
I agree Tomcat a playoff is gonna happen sooner or later since college football is pretty much the only sport in existence without some sort of playoff system.
Gator Matt not cool to come on here and start smashing Kev's team right off the bat. You might get put in Fanblogs jail with..... oh what the hell was that other dudes name?
HookEmHorns!
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on May 18, 2008 10:10 PM — 74.185.133.40 — link — abuse?
Kevin, I have no knowledge of FSU's current financial contributions or their ticket sales, but I'll offer some observations on your other three bullets responding to GatorMatt's post...
"... lost booster support"
I think it's safe to say the Jeff Bowden fiasco cost FSU some of the booster support it has enjoyed in the recent past (certainly among my immediate friends, it did).
"... he allowed Bobby to hire his son..."
If memory serves, TKW was the prez of FSU during JB's tenure, so unless my recollection is errant, this remark appears to be true.
"...blamed the entire cheating scandal on a "rogue tutor"
I recall TKW using the words "rogue tutor" in an explanation and a quick search found this:
Florida State's president attributed an academic cheating scandal to a lack of oversight by athletic department officials, an inattentive faculty member and a rogue tutor.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls07/news/story?id=3164850
...though I did not find a direct quote attributed to TKW.
FWIW, I'm still waiting to hear the conclusion of the Matt Patchan story (I'm still thinking he and a buddy were playing with guns when he got shot).
GatorMatt
posted on May 19, 2008 10:59 AM — 72.184.196.2 — link — abuse? said:
Kevin,
I could only find one quote to prove one of my points, and the rest I'll explain why I THINK they occur.
"The violations focused on a poorly structured online course, lack of attention to detail by a faculty member, and insufficient oversight by the athletic department of one rogue tutor — all coming together to result in a 'contaminated' class,"
That was him blaming the rogue tutor. Here's the link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/acc/2007-12-21-flastate-cheating_N.htm
Now, about him losing money? What program, business, or any other enterprise that continues to under perform doesn't lose money? If you don't perform, you don't sell tickets. Also, if you play 2 creampuffs to start out the season, do you really think that a sellout crowd will be on hand? I don't follow FSU football too much, but I'm curious as to how many sellouts they've had the past two seasons. Perhaps you can answer this for me.
As far as him hiring his son, apparently Jeffy was hired in 2001 as the OC, when TK wasn't there (I believe). However, TK was there in 2003, and allowed Bowden to keep Jeffy on as the coordinator, until the boosters said enough is enough. It took the boosters voices, as opposed to the president of the school, to force Jeff out
posted on May 19, 2008 5:29 PM — link — abuse? said:
@ GatorMatt -
- "... blamed the entire cheating scandal on a "rogue tutor,""
You and I must be reading two different things. To me, the words "insufficient oversight" is casting the blame at the athletic department... hence the firings of most/much of the top of the athletic department and the academic services teams. The entire AD missed what was going on with this tutor, and that's where the blame was leveled.
- "... FSU football program continues to lose money..."
I can only give you the most recent statistics from the Equity in Athletics report (7/31/07) shows FSU with $17.4 million in football revenues versus $9.8 million in expenses. (I can't link precisely to the database pull, but just select florida state from this site.- "... he allowed Bobby to hire his son..."
Sandy D'Alemberte was the FSU President when Jeff Bowden was hired. Jeff Bowden reported to Mickey Andrews, which -- under Florida law -- made the hire completely legal. I can assure you that the FSU boosters looked into this in detail, because they wanted to find a way (any way!) to get rid of Jeffy.- "... lost booster support,"
The Seminole Boosters won't disclose the membership numbers, so I can only tell you by talking to the booster folks that the membership is "as strong as ever" and "energized by both Coach Bowden and Coach Fisher". What does that translate to? I don't know specifically, but I think their suggestion that the Booster may have gotten a boost in the last year from the coach-in-waiting announcement certainly seems that it would hold water.- "... lagging ticket sales,"
The average home game attendance was up in 2007 to 80,597 (402,987/5 home games). That's an increase (ever so slightly) over 2006, but both years are 99+% capacity. So.. I don't buy your argument. That said, I have my reservations about attendance this year, as FSU has seven home games, but two of them are against FCS teams. The first game of the year should be a sellout, but that second one... eh, hard to say. I know I'm not planning to attend both, and I suspect I'm not alone.
Look, I get where you're coming from. T.K. is quite the lightening rod throughout the FSU community, so I'm sure you -- as a Gator -- have an opinion as well. That said, let's just stick to the facts where we can.U. of S. C. 1978 said:
posted on May 20, 2008 9:11 AM — 97.82.175.124 — link — abuse?
#4 Gatormat.
That might be the dumbest statement ever. Wetherell is by far, one of the dumbest presidents to ever run a school. His decisions are influenced by the head football coach.You don't sound too smart either Bud. If the Noles had been a little more successful recently, you would not have a leg to stand on. Mr. Bowden has earned his position, indeed he has earned the loyalty of NoleNation. You can never tell with a coach of his caliber, you certainly should never count him out.
CFB is more intense than ever before, especially at the top level. There is no doubt that everything must go right, injuries, grades, arrests, etc. I for one believe that there is a higher degree of recruit parity these days, no longer can the Irish or certain others, have most of the best.
Finally, I address your complete lack of understanding as to what drives the big decisions in this world. One question, why do you think adherents of the same religion, (Sunni's and Shia's) are fighting each other in Iraq? No clue for you, I am sure. It is money. The leader of the winner's gets all the marbles, the power to assign contracts. The power to make your friends really wealthy, makes for incredibly grateful friends.
Every war is about power and money, ergo, business. CFB is big business, TKW hacked away all the undergrowth in order that we may see truth and reality. You still could not see.
GatorMatt
posted on May 20, 2008 8:12 PM — 97.96.89.135 — link — abuse? said:
#12,
I fail to see how any of that post related to the topic at hand? You called Wetherell a smart guy. I disagreed to the fullest extent. You are correct, Bowden has earned his position. However, most businesses that have gone public, are no longer run by the person who founded the company. The shareholders (boosters) are essentially the ones who appoint the CEO (head coach). The president may do the hiring, but it's the boosters who have most of the say. T.K basically bows down to Bowden. I will present you with a quote that sums up my position:
"The bottom line of this ever-evolving carnival that has become Florida State football: Bowden's message no longer is being heard by his players. And because of that, this once proud program is drowning in inexplicable losses, underachieving seasons, off-field problems and now academic fraud.
And the man doing more harm than good is Wetherell.
Let me explain: Bowden is a football coach. In his mind, he believes as strongly as he ever has that he is thisclose to taking a team that has lost 16 games the last three seasons and turning it back into the team that lost 17 games from 1987-98.
In his mind, he is 78 going on 28. There is nothing he can't do.
Now here is Wetherell, a former player at FSU in the 1960s and Bowden's biggest fan. He says Bowden can/will retire when he wants to -- and no one can/will say otherwise.
Meanwhile, the foundation of FSU's athletic program -- its once elite football team -- is swirling in the drain. And Wetherell has no one to blame but himself.
Not Bowden, not recently fired athletic director Dave Hart, not the football players -- as many as 36 -- accused of academic fraud.
Wetherell could've ended this mess long ago by advising Bowden to retire, by eliminating emotion and evaluating the state of the program like a business. That's what Hart tried to do, and that's why he's getting paid $475,000 to not show up at work every morning.
One or two or three players committing academic fraud happens all the time in college football. But 36 -- thirty-six -- players is systemic and a clear indication of zero leadership.
Wetherell is no better than the 36 players accused of academic fraud. Like those players, he respects and loves Bowden. Players don't fear the ramifications of cheating and getting caught; Wetherell doesn't fear the ramifications of ignoring the obvious downward trend of the football program"
I realize this is from an opinion column, but it paints a fairly accurate picture of the football program and T.K.
U. of S. C. 1978 said:
posted on May 24, 2008 8:33 AM — 97.82.175.124 — link — abuse?
#13
My original post dealt specifically with Tkw's opinion on money and the coming playoff system. I don't dispute that the program at FSU has seen better days. Bowden gave you guys a lot in the past, if he wants to hang in there and try again, that should be his prerogative. My analogy using war, is valid. Mr. Bowden won some wars, now he has the power, and is having his way with some contracts.
Finally, a greater parity is here today. Any program that manages to be top 5 year after year, decade after decade, will be the slim exception, not the rule. In other words, we will all have to take the bad with the good. Loyalty to those who give us good, is to be commended.
Please note that all comments are subject to the Fanblogs Comment Policy.
War Eagle Atlanta 
said:
posted on May 17, 2008 2:22 PM — 68.219.13.70 — link — abuse?And this just in: After Wetherell's statement, current UGA president and ongoing state of Florida nemesis Michael Adams announced that he was against a playoff again. Troubled by the terminology used, Adams said "could we quit calling it a playoff and start referring to it as a 'Battle Royale'..."
Sure the playoffs will happen. In 30,000 years, the latest ice age will be taking over North America, too, and all games will hence be known as 'Ice Bowls'...