January 20, 2008
UF-LSU rivalry bleeds over to recruiting?
Looks like the Florida Gators and LSU Tigers are getting their rivalry off to a fast start this year.
The Times-Picayune reports that Patrick Johnson -- the #2 defensive recruit in the country -- has been held back from enrolling at LSU because of questions arising from his test scores. Johnson scored a 16 on his two previous attempts, but scored a 22 when he took the test in October.
Johnson contends that the Gators questioned his eligibility, which prompted the ACT to flag his previous test scores.
"Florida made an issue about the ACT score. They're cowards. They had to go behind my back. But that's OK. We play them this year [on Oct. 11 at Florida]," said Johnson.
Johnson, who had considered both Florida State and Florida prior to choosing LSU, retook the ACT on Thursday and expects to enroll for the spring semester at LSU this week.
Little stories like this permeate the SEC. It seems like almost every school has had one recruit questioned by a rival in the last five years or so. It's a good story for the rivalry, I suppose, but it is just as likely that the ACT brass flagged Johnson scores on their own accord.
If Johnson does not receive clearance from the ACT, he will likely need to retake the test a fifth time and enroll in the fall semester.
Comments:
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on January 20, 2008 5:12 PM — 74.185.133.40 — link — abuse?
After LSU fans called Tim Tebow's cell phone pryor to the game this year with death threats, having an LSU commitment call the Gators "cowards" sounds like a complement.
Regardless of whether anyone ratted Johnson out or whether the testing service discovered this on their own (and they DO look for statistical anomalies in the test results) any kid who takes a test twice with the exact same results and then has a 37.5% improvement in his score the next time he takes the test is a source for some skepticism (IMO).
In any case, the headline of this blog is correct. LSU and UF do tend to go after the same recruits in many cases and the SEC is a battleground for recruiting.
Cane Mutiny
posted on January 20, 2008 7:31 PM — 65.12.247.141 — link — abuse?
said:
Patrick Johnson only went to LSU because they were offering more money than FSU and Florida. Glad the Gators are trying to bring attention to LSU's shady recruiting...
And when PJ decommitted from Miami, he said he "wasn't getting enough attention" and that the 'Canes coaches had stopped calling. Really? They stopped calling their highest profile recruit? More like they didn't want to buy him a new Cadillac (he did, however, roll around in a Caddy after committing to LSU...).
It's a shame that some schools stoop so low during the recruiting season. Say what you want about Miami, but they've got high admission standards and have had to turn away guys like Ricky Jean-Francois and Ali Highsmith in recent years. Both ended up - not surprisingly - at LSU.
-----
It's great to be a Miami Hurricane!!
Keep it honest on the recruiting front, Coach Shannon - wouldn't want to be on the same level as PJ and the Tigers...kershawdw said:
posted on January 21, 2008 12:21 AM — 24.136.33.6 — link — abuse?
RAMBLIN GATOR - oh my my you Gaytors, I mean Gators are quick to pull the "ohh they called timmy and gave him death threats" card, need we forget that when Tony Joiner got arrested, gator fans had absolutely no problem calling that poor guy and threatening his life if he didn't call the prosecutors office and recommend the charges be dropped. Reference the alligator if you doubt it. Shouldn't throw stones if you live in a glass house.
Dirty recruiting is no new "technique" with Urban Liar, he's been doing it for a while now.
wvu_lifer
posted on January 21, 2008 12:58 AM — 75.109.107.108 — link — abuse? said:
Wow, you SEC folks are passionate! I love it! WVU sometimes comes down that way and grabs some scrap players (Pat White, Daphne AL), lmao), there is so much talent down there it's insane.
I don't think WVU has ever been accused of dirty recruiting(just classless fans, lol). However, it has been going on for several years. The NCAA can't keep up with everything, but they sure try!
I love WVU footdball as much as you guys love the SEC, stay passionate!Peace
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on January 21, 2008 8:52 AM — 74.185.133.40 — link — abuse?
#6: kerswm, kershd, oh screw it! Get a name that makes some sense!
You are absolutely right - the Gator fans who made threatening calls to the auto yard regarding Tony Joiner were WRONG (just like the LSU fans who threatened Tim Tebow). Also, both sets of fans were really dumb too. The owner of the auto yard never had any intention of pressing charges against Joiner, so what's the point of threatening him? Similarly, threatening Tebow didn't help LSU either (he even made a little "call me" gesture to the fans after scoring his first touchdown in that game). Two classless acts that did nothing but prove how stupid people can be.
Back to the topic of this blog...IF Meyer did rat Johnson out, it should be noted that Meyer is very careful about the kids he recruits and even reported irregularities against one of his own recruits last year. John Brown did not play after Meyer self-reported on him. Now riddle me this, batman - how badly did the Gators need John Brown - a 5-star defensive line recruit - last year?
You also have to smile at the yellow, muck-raking pseudo-journalism exhibited by the Times-Picayune in this article. An 18 YO kid tells them that Urban Meyer ratted him out, so the next sentence SHOULD HAVE been (at least) "Meyer could not be reached for comment" instead of simply quoting the kid verbatim. I would expect this kind of reporting from The National Enquirer. I've always known not to trust the cops in NOLA and now I know not to trust the paper either.
gatorstud said:
posted on January 21, 2008 11:55 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
hehateme....it does sound petty.....but maybe this a good thing for the player and lsu...i wonder if it would of come out during the season about questionable scores on ACT tests...if the ncaa would of gotten involved....and if there was a problem..would it of cost lsu in any way......
just wondering.....
go gators....
BayouBengal said:
posted on January 21, 2008 12:34 PM — 72.149.254.106 — link — abuse?
gatorstud....its me hehate aka bayoubengal,
I guess this might be for the best, b/c if there is shady act test scores....I'd rather it come out now than the regular season! So you might be right.....get this ordeal worked out...before its to late!
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on January 21, 2008 1:04 PM — 74.185.133.40 — link — abuse?
Out of curiosity, I just did a web search and found nothing linking Meyer or UF to this story except the word of Johnson himself. I'm not saying that this story **can't** be true, but it seems less likely every minute that Meyer had anything to do with this.
Zac said:
posted on January 21, 2008 2:40 PM — 209.36.193.14 — link — abuse?
Ramblin man, R U trying to tell me that someone from one school would insinuate that someone from another school would take the attitude, "If we can't have him, no one can", when in fact neither he who was insinuated nor his school had anything to do with it? I don't believe that for a minute. (Insert sarcasm where applicable.)
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on January 21, 2008 3:09 PM — 74.185.133.40 — link — abuse?
#14: Zac, feel free to call upon your sardonic abilities - I enjoy sarcastic hyperbole MORE than the next guy! However, I must misappropriate a popular statement from the last decade...
"If the glove don't fit, you must acquit"
There are so many gator-haters and Meyer-maligners on the web now (nothing breeds contempt like a little success!) whenever I see an article like this I have to look at it skeptically. Meyer has been blamed for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to the heartbreak of psoriasis. At some point, a reasonable person must pause to question the source and validity of the accusation.
Sure, recruiters employ poisoned well and scorched earth tactics. I'm just saying this 17 year old kid (who backed out of his commitment to Miami and may have cheated on his ACT test) is hardly the final arbiter of guilt in this matter.
This whole story just doesn't pass the sniff test with me anyway. As soon as I read the Times-Picayune story with the Johnson quote and NO REBUTTAL OR VERIFICATION OF ANY KIND, I was fairly sure the link to UF was pretty much BS. I'm even more sure now.
Besides, if I were in Meyer's shoes and wanted to gain some leverage from this situation, I wouldn't out the kid to the ACT board. I would call up Les Miles to "politely" let him know that the recruit in question might have some test score issues. With that, I would have put Miles on notice and gained leverage for the future.
BayouBengal said:
posted on January 21, 2008 3:35 PM — 72.149.254.106 — link — abuse?
What!
I don't see any need for a flag.....its possible to go from a 16 to a 22!
Right!
OK....maybe not!
He deserves the benefit of the doubt though!
We will see soon enough....he re-took the ACT friday....and I'm sure he was closely watched....so I hope he proves everybody wrong and qualifies!
Geaux Tigers!
posted on January 21, 2008 5:39 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?War Eagle Atlanta
said:
Ron: Kevin gave him an extension. His deadline is for 10 paragraphs by morning...
Pretty cold in Hotlanta the last few days. Put on a turtleneck under my pullover this morning. Was about to put on a baseball cap but then I thought better of it. Didn't want to look like Les'ticles...
Zac said:
posted on January 21, 2008 6:51 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
"Meyer has been blamed for everything from the Lindbergh kidnapping to the heartbreak of psoriasis."
Now, that's funny right there; I don't care who you are.
By the way, why do they call it, "sarcastic hyperbole," as opposed to say, "sarcastic parabole"? Maybe one makes more points than the other; I don't know.
I hope this comes out the kid's scores were legit. I'd hate to see us loose another one to God only knows what. I'd rather see them playing football than contributing absolutely nothing to society.
NATIVEGATOR said:
posted on January 21, 2008 7:50 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
FIRST OF ALL,CONGRATS TO LSU FOR SHOWING SEC DOMINANCE ONCE AGAIN OVER THE DEFUNCT SMALL-10.THAT SAID,I CANT WAIT TO SIT ON THE 40-YD LINE IN THE SWAMP THIS YEAR RAGGIN OUT LES ABOUT 5 ROWS UP.P.S. TELL LES TO PLEASE TAKE THAT GOOFY SERIOUS LOOK OFF HIS FACE EVERY TIME HE IS BEING INTERVIEWED,HES PLAYING FOOTBALL,NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF IRAQ,ENOUGH ACTING ALREADY.THAT SAID, LOOK THE TOP 20 TEAMS IN THE COUNTRY AND LOOK AT THE RATINGS IN FOUR AND FIVE STAR PLAYERS GOING TO EACH TEAM,UF HAS THE ADVANTAGE.GO GATORS AND YOU LSU AKA KITTY FANS ARE TOAST IN THE SWAMP THIS YEAR.
Cowbell05 said:
posted on January 21, 2008 9:47 PM — 70.152.124.150 — link — abuse?
Actually It could be possible to go from a 16 to a 22...The test is taken on a Saturday, so what if he drank a little too much the night before? I remember (only about 4 years ago) the night before I had to take the ACT I went to a party and was in no shape to take an ACT exam the next morning and made a 17. The very next time I took it I made sure i had plenty of sleep and made a 21. Yeah maybe I got lucky, but I'm just saying its possible.
R.G. #8, (JMO) but I still have to say that I thought the phone gesture to the student section was pretty funny, I mean their the ones who started the whole thing, I didn't really see anything wrong with it.
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on January 21, 2008 10:08 PM — 143.127.131.4 — link — abuse?
#25: Cowbell, I agree - I thought Tebow's phone gesture was funny and served to show the LSU fans that their threats didn't work on him. On rereading my post (#8), I realized that my wording was ambiguous - sorry! The "two classless acts" I referred to was the LSU fans threatenting Tebow and the Gator fans threatening the owner of a car lot where Tony Joiner "liberated" his girlfriend's car (in the middle of the night).
posted on January 22, 2008 11:19 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Post 22 looks like the legal description for some of my commercial property--half a page long and precious little punctuation.
Or it looks like one of those crazy google search returns you get back, with a bunch of unrelated words in all caps strung together, probably to help direct you to some porn site.
Native Gator, we just want people to read your post rather than glance over it.
Geauxtigers0107 said:
posted on January 23, 2008 8:26 AM — 144.5.224.142 — link — abuse?
I've heard the story on him more than once and this is the first time I've seen Her-Ban's name attached to it.
See post 12.....that's nearly right. It's a 3 point jump that initiates the flag by the NCAA.
IMO, Flaw-rida had nothing to do with this. Fla (the state-not the school) produces some incredible talent. It's definitely in the cross hairs of LSU (as it should be) each recruiting season.
Geaux SEC
Geaux TigersTE
posted on January 23, 2008 2:05 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
Well, I'm not going to weigh in on this like Tolstoy or anything, because I'm not trying to dredge anything up, but CaneMutiny...are you serious? We bought him an Escalade?
Seriously? You gonna go there? Cane, are you listening to me? Hey...Cane...YO! Turn down that 2LiveCrew Album you got from Luther long enough to listen to me when I say pots shouldn't call any kettle's black, son...
LSU's squeaky clean, which is more than I can say for most...
I've heard far, FAR less than that from Mr. Meyer...and we've gone over a lot of his aforementioned problems farther up this thread, but all I'll say is this...
Ask our Freshman All-World WR Terrance Tolliver about how Urban Meyer recruited him...Ask him what he was told about LSU by Urban Meyer, himself. Ask him what he was told about our academics, our academic support unit, graduation rates, etc...
Then ask him how he called him to the mat after his high school guidance counselors-who in nothing short of a saintly act going above and beyond their call of duty-went independently of Terrance's knowledge to LSU and asked questions of the staff there-without them knowing who they were-and then reported all the way back to Texas with the answers for Terrance.
At their OWN expense...
Seriously...Just ask Tolliver what he thinks of Meyer and how he recruits...
Now, look...If Johnson's upset about Florida's "If we can't have you, then no one can," attitude, then too bad. If Meyer did do it and cost us a great shot at developing a guy who could provide great depth to a position we have pegged as a need in the Spring, then bully for him.
Johnson should have studied hard enough and thought with enough foresight to prepare well enough to ensure he could avoid a situation like this, and I'm sure guidance counselors and others close to his academic situation made him aware of the scrutiny his scores would receive.
At any rate, he retook the test, fed-exed his results, and they will be hand-graded and sent back...so if they're legit, we'll know by tomorrow, which is the deadline for LSU's spring semester students to enroll in classes.
If not, then we'll see him in June for the intercession, Summer Semester, and he'll still get a leg up on the incoming guys who go to Prom & Graduation while in Tommy Moffitt's S&C program...
I think it's a non-issue, but all in all, another brick in the wall for Urban Meyer, who is carving out quite a name for himself around the SEC. I'm glad that as a fellow member institution, he's able to have them succeed. But, he's making himself no friends, and nationally, coaches-even high school ones-are a fickle bunch...You simply must avoid lying to recruits to their face...
gatorhippy
posted on January 23, 2008 2:14 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
This whole thing is simply a case of "tempest in a teapot"...
It's no different than the same tired story we hear in recruitng every year...
The only difference is that the UF camp is doing the whistleblowing on LSU as opposed to LSU doing it to USC two seasons ago or UT doing it Bama almost a decade ago...
The game stays the same only the players change...
gatorstud said:
posted on January 23, 2008 2:32 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
TE...ok..you asked if cane mutiny was serious..so i am asking you...R U SERIOUS....it seems in your little rant that you think that Urban is the only coach to bad mouth another institution to keep a possible recruit from going there.....please put the mushrooms down, tell alice and the white rabbit to postpone the tea party cause it's obvious that in your HAZED state of mind your still one teacup short....
i will have to agree w/ you that johnson should of done it right the first time and none of this would have come to light..for that he has no-one to blame but himself....this would of came to light in time anyway through the clearing house...if urban wanted to burn him or LSU....he could of waited till the season started and hoped for ncaa involvement....
oh well.....we will see ya'll in g-ville this year...
florida is kicking a$$ on the recruiting trail....
go gators....
TE
posted on January 23, 2008 4:19 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
Stud,
Whose talking hallucinogenic plantlife here? Better yet, whose talking about other coaches and their recruiting tactics in this thread?
You sound like my mom in an argument with my dad...anytime she got cornered, the Christmas Party rampage with Crown Reserve from three Christmases before that...
In other words-DON'T CHANGE THE SUBJECT.
We're not talking about "other" coaches. We're talking about yours. Specifically. Citing specific examples...
On top of that, I've got something else for you...From your own AD...A "secondary violation" where a 5-Star Rivals' WR's girlfriend-a gymnast who transferred to Florida-was called "every day" during a dead period (breaking multiple NCAA rules, namely coaches recruiting for more than one sport, coaches contacting more than the minimum ties in one week, and possible inducements to attract a recruit)...
Check it out here...
TE
posted on January 23, 2008 4:21 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/uwire/012308aag.html
Oh, and this isn't some assistant or GA...It's your HEAD COACH...
The one this entire thread's about, that you'd love to redirect the entirety of the conversation about...
I still haven't ever mastered the URL mechanics here...I can bold, underline, & italicize till the cows come home, but no URL soup for me...
gatorstud said:
posted on January 23, 2008 4:45 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
TE..lol...its hilarious that when someone tries to debate you..you come up with some frilly remarks that would make martha stuart jealous....reminds me of that line from deliverence..."that TE, sure has a purty mouf".....
hey TE..DON'T CHANGE THE SUBJECT...we were talking about johnson..not tolliver...so try taking some of your "shut up" medicine you try to dish out to everyone else.....
yeah i already heard of the recruit & girlfreind story...a secondary violation at best....but go ahead and spin it any way you want to make yourself look important...lol....
i'm curiois....was it T.O. that said "i love me some of me"..or was it T.E.
too funny...
go gators....
gatorstud said:
posted on January 23, 2008 4:51 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
TE...hey there "MR. LSU IS HOLIER THAN THOUGH"........try spinning this one
http://www.thejockrap.com/?p=514.......
hhmmmm.....very interesting....spin it TE...spin it...
go gators.....
gatorhippy
posted on January 23, 2008 4:57 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
Couple of points in regards to your link, TE...
According to my sources in Gainesville, alot of this comes down to time frame and interpretation of rules...
Here's why...
Smith is merely Moore's girlfriend...
They are not married nor are they related therefore ANY coach could talk to her as much as they wanted in regards to Moore as there is no NCAA rule prohibiting contact with a recruits peers or friends at any point...
Smith contacted Coach Faehn to inquire about scholarship availability in December at which point an asst. coach from UF gymnastics was sent out to visit with her...
After this point, Meyer allegedley had no contact with her as she then became an actual UF recruit and not simply a friend of Moore's...
Moore signed his LOI on Dec. 19, it was conveyed to me that Smith not only signed hers at a later date but also contacted Faehn after Moore had signed his LOI with UF...
So, in summary...
What is in question here is exactly at what point Smith dialed up Faehn and officially became an actual UF recruit herself and at which point in the process that Meyer halted contact in order to be in compliance...
If Meyer continued contact with Smith after that point and before she signed with UF, then he would be very much in violation of NCAA rules...
However, Meyer is pretty good at finding the loopholes in NCAA recruting rules which it appears is simply the case here...
Either way, these are simply secondary violations if they do come to head and mean very little in the way of any sanctions by the NCAA...
In the end, this just appears to be a loophole found by Meyer that enabled him not only to land a prized recruit but also use the sound base of the overall Gator athletics program to sway not only his decision but bring an athlete that was at one time a UF recruit BACK back into the Saurian fold...Simply creative recruiting and manipulating the system...
Just like text messaging...
TE
posted on January 23, 2008 5:05 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
Hippy,
I never said it was cause for the death penalty, and no one's advocating Florida be placed on D-1's Green Mile, here...
What I'm saying is that it's another example of a guy whose willing to act far too much like a politician in order to further his own cause, as evidenced by both my examples as well as other established media outlets...
As for Gatorstud..."Un-named sources" in your link...Which means it's not worth the paper you printed it on to attach it to your Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory Shrine Room against us...
Or...
Your own Athletic Department corroborating previously reported violations...
You tell me which one's worth reading, and which one's worth lining the bottom of Richard Gere's Gerbil cage...
gatorstud said:
posted on January 23, 2008 5:51 PM — 71.115.83.216 — link — abuse?
TE....
spin it....c'mon TE...spin it some more...
lmfao...you want to rant about meyer making phone call but don't want to answer allegations of miles recruiting tactics.....
that is a pretty straight line you walk TE...lol
but keep spinning it....next time put your liittle rant in the comic section where it belongs.....
go gators.....
gatorhippy
posted on January 23, 2008 8:58 PM — 70.121.110.84 — link — abuse? said:
I never said it was cause for the death penalty, and no one's advocating Florida be placed on D-1's Green Mile, here...
I didn't say you did...
What I'm saying is that it's another example of a guy whose willing to act far too much like a politician in order to further his own cause...So me a major power CFB coach that doesn't and I'll show you a "loser" {cough}Larry Coker{cough}...
as evidenced by both my examples as well as other established media outlets...And which the majority of was simply not true...
TigerbandCJP said:
posted on January 23, 2008 9:51 PM — 24.250.64.228 — link — abuse?
Cane Mutiny #5
Really? Lost a recruit and you're trying to say we're dirty? And you're throwing Florida into this as well? Show me proof that Florida and LSU are dirty and that Miami is not...then we'll talk.
I'm sure you've heard of "Thug U" right? You guys have a long way to go to make up for the corruption that ran rampart through your program for a decade.
I mean seriously what's wrong...don't think we can win a fair fight? Let's see...the last time the Canes talked trashed to LSU, we dominated your butts in the Peach Bowl and sent your program into a downward spiral.
Keep talking....
Eye of the Tiger said:
posted on January 24, 2008 6:52 AM — 138.163.0.43 — link — abuse?
Just leave it to Gatorstud to bring up a BS link and ask someone to spin what's already spun. Gatorstud, why don't you find a news worthy link before you open yourself up for debate? I'm sorry, but joc-krap is simply not credible. Neither is this whole thread. You can tell we are getting into the nitty gritty of recruiting this season. There is a lot of mud throwing going around CFB this time of year. I don't buy into any of this crap and I hope the players who are getting recruited by their respective schools are not listening to any hoopla about other schools as well.
gatorstud said:
posted on January 24, 2008 8:25 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
eye of tiger.....yeah thats right..jump on me about bs stories, but your boyfreind TE can bring up any story he wants to and i guess it's all right....get off you knees ....wipe your chin pal...you got TE all lover your face....and go back to making your next "LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE" video.....
c'mon eye of tiger..tell your boy TE to get real and stop bringing up BS stories.....go ahead.......
yeah..thats what i thought...like i said...wipe your chin....
go gators...
Eye of the Tiger said:
posted on January 24, 2008 9:03 AM — 138.163.0.42 — link — abuse?
What's w/ you and your gay issues Gaytorstud muffin? Seriously, leave me out of it. I know you are delusional and have some deep dark tendencies, but I don't go that route. I hope you don't get too dizzy from all your spinning and you are still able to walk a 'straight' line when all is said and done, queer.
gatorstud said:
posted on January 24, 2008 9:29 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
eye of tiger....."deep dark tendencies" huh....you havn't put one ounce of any kind, as far as information on this blog except to throw stones at me.....TE is a big boy and can take care of himself....i have debated with him before and theres a good chance i will debate him again in the future....
TE barked at me not to change the subject but then derails his argument by throwing in tolliver and then brought up moore.....yeah..so much for staying on topic.....and then YOU want to blast me for putting up BS......
so my question to you was...why is it that i get dogged by you for putting up bs...but you dont memtion your buddy TE for bringing up stupid crap stories.....just curious......so i figured it must be because of your love for TE, that you don't call him out also....
so if you want to be left out of the conversations....then don't butt in...you stupid tool....is it really that hard for you to figure that out.....
go gators....
gatorstud said:
posted on January 24, 2008 9:56 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
eye of tiger...TE uses statements made by players without any kind of hard proof..and you call that news worthy source huh.....he did give a link to the moore situation but that is a secondary violation at best......but that isn't what this blog is about...IS IT.....it is about johnson....not tolliver and not moore...and TE uses word of mouth sources to prove his argument..and you call that news worthy sources....and then you talk to me about using the national enquirer...now that is funny.....and then when TE is called out...he doesn't like it or can't handle it so he tries to use other news stories to back his long winded arguments....
your right about one thing....this is all pre-season BS....and nothing will come from any of it......
i'm done with this....
go gators....
TE
posted on January 24, 2008 11:38 AM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
Gatorstud,
The stories were in Tolliver's local paper & on CBS Sportsline after last year's signing day. I don't know how it's BS when his guidance counselors and the player himself-who has NEVER been under any kind of investigation, or thought of in any light other than as a great kid who decided against listening to Meyer's lies once those he trusted pointed them out as such-were the ones quoted.
The other story was linked, with quotes from people in your own AD, who are admitting to secondary violations by your head coach, which corroborate the subject of this thread.
You posted an unsubstantiated rumor from a link that quotes no one, sources no one, and explains nothing in specific regarding the violations alleged.
Yet I'm spinning, and I'm derailing my own argument? You are the one who changed the subject. This isn't difficult to understand. You're blinded by a myopic lock-step support of your school...and if you can't call the spade the spade-even if it's not as eloquently as Hippy can-then I can't help you here...
Stud, your argument's weak, your weaks are linker, and you're reaching, bigtime...Good job on your part to "be done" with this...
TE
posted on January 24, 2008 11:54 AM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
Not to post three in a row...Well, yes...to post three in a row...
Patrick Johnson's name was removed from the list of incoming freshman on our Spring Semester rolls...
He will be here in June, now...Plenty of time, but missing the Spring will hurt, somewhat...
Meyer's wish is granted...For now...
TE
posted on January 24, 2008 11:59 AM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
Oh, and after perusing some other information, look at this...Looks like Meyer got TIM TEBOW INVOLVED, with the media looking on, at the HEISMAN TROPHY PRESENTATION!
LOL! This gets better and better, doesn't it, Gatorstud...
BTW-NCAA rules state that a coach cannot initiate a phonecall and then allow a current student athlete to recruit. This can only happen in certain situations...
gatorhippy
posted on January 24, 2008 12:02 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
The other story was linked, with quotes from people in your own AD, who are admitting to secondary violations by your head coach, which corroborate the subject of this thread...
Nobody has admitted anyting as far as violations go...
Yet...
It's still under investigation at this point...
And will be found unjustified more than likely given the reasons from my post #38...
It will all come down to timeline and how events in this incident fall into place...
Back to the topic at hand...
This can't really be placed under dirty recruiting by UF...
What exactly is the credibility of this kid?
He is obviously not that smart and accuses UF of flagging his ACT score...
Does anybody really think the NCAA Clearinghouse needs to be alerted when a kid scores 16's twice on the ACT and his score suddenly jumps 6 points the third time...
I'm pretty sure they were on top of that the minute it was submitted...
Maybe shady boosters or illegal contact needs to be reported by other institutions but as far as academic evaluations go the NCAA doesa pretty thourough j9ob of looking into that...
More than likely what happened was that UF backed off this kid when he scored a 16 pointer twice on the test (similiar to Noel Devine) and this kid got offended...
Either way when any proof can be shown to these eyes that UF in fact called the Cleringhouse over this then I'll believe it...
Until then this is simply an 18 year old kid mongering for some attention...
gatorstud said:
posted on January 24, 2008 12:32 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
TE..i went to your link..and i am wondering what your point is....
i did catch one line from that could help you in your...."coaches have no buisiness telling recruits where not to go"....crusade...lol
"Tedford's real good, fun to talk to," Moore said. "He told me it'd be a mistake if I went to Florida, that I should come to Cal. I thought about it."
oh no...you better get em TE...oh, how can we stand for such behavior....what is the world coming to.......
so go ahead TE...put up one of your long winded "colorful" posts about the attrocities that this person from cal has done....come on TE...educate him with your wit and humor.....lol
oh and by the way TE....STICK TO THE TOPIC......lol...what a tool...lol
go gators....
TE
posted on January 24, 2008 12:55 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
So...Let me get this straight...
You are linked multiple stories where multiple media outlets, girlfriends of players (who are now current Gator student-athletes), players, media members, and Florida Athletic Department Officials admit to violating NCAA rules and regulations regarding the recruitment of prospective NCAA student athletes who play football on the part of your head coach and your Heisman Trophy winning quarterback...
You've tried to change the subject over and over again, and then linked a sourceless, non-cited, non-verified, and completely anonymous story about "alleged" violations...
I'm somehow spinning this thread and derailing my own argument?
Stud, take five, buddy...Because you're way, WAY off the reservation on this one, kemosabe...
gatorstud said:
posted on January 24, 2008 1:31 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
TE..c'mon man...at least be honest w/ yourself.....this topic was about johnson and his act scores....and you turned it into your personal posting board against meyer....and if you can't admit to that then that's your problem....
i only stated earlier that urban is not the only coach who uses these tactics... you came back with a bunch of other stories.....but i will take your advice and take five.....
serenity now..
serenity now..
serenity now..
serenity now..
serenity now......and since i'm irish and not of native heritage.....i'm not off the reservation...i am slowly slipping off a bar stool....lol..
and i am sure that these (as well as many other) stories will re-surface when lsu comes to g-ville this year.....
go gators....
posted on January 24, 2008 1:37 PM — link — abuse? said:
Right now the Meyer (& Tebow) phone call story is a non-story. It's a rumor that might bloom into something legit. Let's see what UF decides about the incident before we cast too many stones.
It's a very heated recruiting season and AN AWFUL LOT of half-truths are being floated out there because they might stick to one team or another.
Let's just see.
TE
posted on January 24, 2008 1:42 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
'Stud,
We share a common heritage...I'm about as Irish as Irish gets...I even have an O' out in front of the rest of my last name...
Seriously, man...This Meyer guy is cut-throat, but he's taking some heat on the AP Wire, in the blogosphere (I'm sure Kevin loves realizing he's a member of said blogosphere), and across the conference...
But, the real problem is that he's taking a lot of heat amongst high school coaches across the South, and the rest of the nation, as well...
Whether Patrick Johnson suits up in the Spring is immaterial, as he's merely the nation's best cornerback prospect...We've signed the best at that position the past two years in a row before him, in Phelon Jones & Jai Eugene...
What I'm trying to do here, Rorschach, is paint you a larger picture of a guy that's quickly burning bridges, and not just recruiting ones...
gatorhippy
posted on January 24, 2008 1:48 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
This Meyer guy is cut-throat, but he's taking some heat on the AP Wire, in the blogosphere (I'm sure Kevin loves realizing he's a member of said blogosphere), and across the conference...
And yet, Rivals has UF's recruiting class ranked at #1 for the time being with more 5-star prospects than any other school...
Which would indicate a contrary position held by potential recruits against the one you would all have us believe in that recruits are wisening up to his "dirty tactics"...
So, this "Meyer guy" must be doing something right...
gatorhippy
posted on January 24, 2008 1:55 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
And is that really an Auburn fan making comments on shady recruiting up at #53...
We aren't even an entire year removed from the grade changing scandal from up there...
Seriously, tigerman...
People who live in glass houses, dude...
gatorstud said:
posted on January 24, 2008 1:59 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
TE....meyer definately stretches the "line of which not to cross"...
but recruiting in the south is probably as vicious as ever....i can't imagine that he had to deal with this kind of scrutiny at utah or bowling green....so hopefully he can kind of back down seeing how "exposed" SEC recruiting can be....fans, including me will turn on him if we even sniff a "galen hall or charlie pell" incident coming....until then, i will back him cause he has brought us a sec and national title....with maybe another on the way....
go gators.....
TE
posted on January 24, 2008 2:25 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
Hipster,
To address your comments, that's silly...the guy's been there four years, and this is the 2nd straight year we've heard of VERY questionable-if not outright and illegal-recruiting stories and tactics out of Florida, as well as countless off-the-field problems, imaginary suspensions that are lifted for one game, etc...
The guy flouts the rules, and while he's getting away with it, chickens of that nature always have a tendency of-eventually-coming home to roost...
Verifiable, admitted, habitual rule-breaking does not go unpunished sir...he's done it in the media, and it's been documented by cameras, by tape recoders, by those close to recruitments, by guidance counselors, high school & college coaches, and the players themselves...
At what price, success...
I'll say this much...In the SEC, I can think of a lot of people who've gotten into recruiting hot water...
1.) Orgeron
2.) Meyer
3.) Saban
4.) FulmerWith #1 just getting hired to coach the DL of the (C)Aints, I'd say that the other two presently employed coaches on that list have at least 6 years in the conference...Meyer's got 3 under his belt...
Be careful how solidly you clamp down on your nostrils in order to have Meyer's recruiting pass your smell tests...
That's all I'm saying...
posted on January 24, 2008 3:20 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
GH: Grade-changing scandals aren't recruiting violations. They're a completely different problem, as you yourself would point out to anyone.
Alas, this Auburn fan is staying far and wide from the topic at hand. I gotta get some blinds for this house of mine...
gatorhippy
posted on January 24, 2008 3:33 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
TE (#64):
Not sure exactly what you are referring to as silly, but...
Please link me any other accused recruiting violations that you are referring to that were NOT cleared by UF, SEC and NCAA investigation into the matter...
Again, simply because Meyer finds a way around the rules where others can't does not warrant labeling him a "cheater"...
That's a little "kindergarten playground"...
I would suggest you be careful as well in dismissing "internet rumor" in regards to Leslie's accused recruiting violations...
As "internet rumor" by an "anonymous" Longhorn is what sunk the "schooner" for OU and Bomar in the "no work/all pay" deal the Sooners just got slapped with...
That's all I'm saying...
gatorhippy
posted on January 24, 2008 3:40 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
WE ATL (#65):
I beg to differ...
Grade changing is a recruiting matter if the kid in question would otherwise not qualify...
The "hair splitting" factor there would be whether the recruiting institution had a hand in it or not...
But, I see where you're coming from...
gatorhippy
posted on January 24, 2008 4:20 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
FYI - For what it's worth, it appears Ms. Smith is now claiming she exaggerated and mispoke in regards to her earlier comments...
Tempest in a teapot...
TE
posted on January 24, 2008 4:57 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
How convenient for a woman who could cost the University millions...she was misquoted, of course...
Talk about spin...
I still haven't seen one legitimate, linkable, sourced, cited report about any alleged LSU recruiting transgressions, yet we're talking about at least three here between Tolliver, Tebow, and Johnson now...Though Johnson admittedly could be attributed more to sour grapes (which is asinine and sort've petty, if something can be petty on a titanic scale)...
With the guy's girlfriend to boot...These are all verifiable, and documented stories...
Nothing you've presented about LSU can go anywhere, and you know it...
How many unsubstantiated rumors have borne out to be true? ONE? Wow...Talk about a frighteningly high percentage, Hipster! I'm quaking in my recruiting boots...
Meyer didn't find ways around the rules, he broke them, and whether he did it knowingly or in a reckless, ignorant, damn the costs sort've way is up for discussion.
But, he illegally contacted and spoke about offering scholarships to his girlfriend, contacted her daily, according to what she's been quoted in print as saying, and that's a clear violation of NCAA regulations.
He also knowingly and or recklessly, ignorant, damn teh costs sort've way handed a phone to Tebow after the Hesiman presentation, and that's a clear violation of NCAA regulations.
He's also been quoted by one of our players and his guidance counselors as having lied to him about institution and their academics, and then got called out on it, only never to respond...
He's also been alleged to have turned a kid in for pursuing his educational opportunities, because for whatever prior planning was lacking on Johnson's part, the kid was sold to LSU long ago, and he'll see the field...To purposefully stagnate the kids progress in school is sort've shameless in an immature, schoolkid sort've way...Only, he's a grown man being paid millions of dollars, is all...
So, in summation, to say he's "finding ways around the rules"...Well, you'd be wrong...He's breaking the rules. Steamrolling right through them. He's on tape, on camera, and quoted by student athletes as doing it, and doing it ALOT...
You do realize that there's a difference between those two statements, right?
Tempest in a teapot is a tad bit of an understatement...Especially by someone telling me that a uncited, non-sourced internet link from an anonymous unnamed person could be something big...
The irony isn't lost on me in light of your fan allegiance, but, we all see what's going on here...The strokes you're painting with are a tad too broad, here, and even you know it...
gatorhippy
posted on January 24, 2008 6:13 PM — 70.121.110.84 — link — abuse? said:
And we have yet to see any foundation of proof that Meyer committed any secondary violations in the Smith/Moore situation...
Not any confirmation of call frequency backed by phone record nor any witnessed discussion or taped conversation of the topics and substance of conversations between the three parties in question...
What we have is a 20 year old girl excited about re-starting her athletics career and getting to do it in a top notch program who may(or may not) have overspoke about her discussions with another university official...
That's it...
Nothing more, nothing less...
Same goes for the Moore/Tebow conversation post Heisman ceremony...
Until a phone record verifies the initiator of the call, do we really know who called who?
And yeas, TE...
Tempest in a teapot....
Simply secondary violations...
posted on January 24, 2008 6:14 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
GH: Oh, I think we are talking about seperate incidents. I know the one you are talking about. I think those grades were changes at the school. I don't think the university was ever accused of anything. Suspicuous? Sure. I thought you were talking about the sociology classes...
gatorhippy
posted on January 24, 2008 6:19 PM — 70.121.110.84 — link — abuse? said:
Oh, yeah...
TE, I'm still waiting on any links you can provide that actually shows where Meyer has been found guilty of recruiting violations at ANY of his coaching stops...
Or is it just that being accused and investigated in this country has now turned to conviction even after being exonerated?
gatorstud said:
posted on January 25, 2008 8:46 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
g-hippy...it's useless man, TE is on a mission..he puts his coach on a pedestal while downgrading everyone elses....i'm sure the "lyrical genious" that is TE will come back with some fancy words (fresh off his desktop calendar) and try to knock urban down w/ hearsay and rumors...but no hard evidence....
go gators...
TE
posted on January 25, 2008 10:56 AM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
I don't have the rifle from the book repository, but I did see a guy on the grassy knoll eat a new Arby's Hot Swiss An Jou Melt yesterday...
What a surprise...quotes from the AD about possible secondary violations, patterns of behaviour that corroborate it, but until we find find voice recognition software, you believe your coach...
It's admirable and it's understandable, but it's just sort've funny to keep pushing you about it, and see how fantastic your denials become...
I also noticed you stopped alluding to "alleged" recruiting transgressions by holding up one anonymous blog posting that wasn't sourced in light of your "tempest in a teapot" declarations...
Smart move...
Good luck, and good job recruiting this year...Here's hoping Urban finds a running back he can trust so you guys won't deal with your third 3 loss season out of 4 with Urban...
TampaGator said:
posted on January 25, 2008 11:45 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
As I understand it, UF was interested in Patrick Johnson as a potential recruit. They looked into his academics (ACT scores) because the scores were suspect. The inquiry was for UF's own interest, not to hurt Johnson. If he cheated on ACT, UF wouldn't want him (he'd be deemed ineligible, and we'd have wasted a scholly on him--not to mention he'd obvisouly be dishonest and of suspect character); if he didn't cheat, then UF would continue to pursue him.
That LSU would so gladly look past the suspect ACT scores, speaks to LSU's recruiting practices, not UF's.
My $.02.
GO GATORS!!TampaGator said:
posted on January 25, 2008 11:45 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
As I understand it, UF was interested in Patrick Johnson as a potential recruit. They looked into his academics (ACT scores) because the scores were suspect. The inquiry was for UF's own interest, not to hurt Johnson. If he cheated on ACT, UF wouldn't want him (he'd be deemed ineligible, and we'd have wasted a scholly on him--not to mention he'd obvisouly be dishonest and of suspect character); if he didn't cheat, then UF would continue to pursue him.
That LSU would so gladly look past the suspect ACT scores, speaks to LSU's recruiting practices, not UF's.
My $.02.
GO GATORS!!gatorhippy
posted on January 25, 2008 12:49 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
Personally, TE, I don't really think there is any substance to Leslie's recruiting but will aknowledge that rumors are always how it starts...
Just ask Miami (Pell grants), FSU (Free Shoes), UF (Pell/Hall), OU (Bomar) or SMU (Death Penalty)...
All were based on rumors that grew feet with a little poking around even though in some cases it took years to cut to the chase...
I hope it's not the case...
I like Leslie, feel he's a gutsy coach and has carried a perceived clean record through all his stops...
Does it mean he is clean?
No...
Does it mean he has not gotten caught?
Perhaps...
As far as the Carl Moore affair is concerned...
I'm not defending Meyer...
I'm simply saying wait until all the facts are in and the investigation is complete before you condemn him...
I take no issue with a "raising of eyebrows" over it, but to claim he's guilty without a true review of the facts and pursue a witch hunt like you are doing is ridiculous and unfounded...
There is nothing concrete yet, just some statements that were made, perhaps out of context...
Perhaps not...
That's why UF is doing an investigation and if in fact Meyer is found to be at fault he will surely be held accountable...
But until all the evidence is in and been presented...
Relax...
TE
posted on January 25, 2008 3:01 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
As I understand it, Florida did not have a problem with his score...They claim that he had a ringer take it for him...
Oh, and by the way...Patrick has gotten a stay, and thanks to the fact that he had made plans to retake it already and pay to have it hand-graded, LSU is willing to admit him late to Spring Drills...
Too bad, Urban (if that was on you)...
gatorhippy
posted on January 25, 2008 3:46 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse? said:
They claim that he had a ringer take it for him...LMAO...
TE, now you're just making stuff up...
Cmon, dude...
The kid wasn't even ever committed to UF as they backed off after his second crappy test score...
After which he verbally committed to UCG only to back out and then committed to LSU...
This kid is more confused than a newborn at a stripper convention...
I'm really interested on hearing where PJ got his info from that UF was blowing the whistle...
The NCAA Clearinghouse is the only place where the NCAA seems to have their act together...
They held UF recruit John Brown out this past season until all of his flagged and improved test scores, which were minimal in improvement in jumps between acceptable and unacceptable...
6 points on the ACT is a HUGE jump...
You really think the NCAA needed to be alerted by UF in order to further merit a better look at Pat's test score?
TampaGator said:
posted on January 25, 2008 4:59 PM — 71.101.63.118 — link — abuse?
TE/#81:
A "ringer" is one potential explantion.
Maybe there was a glitch...maybe he actually improved that much...maybe the computer confused his tests with someone else's...
...no matter the explanation, the point is that the point differential warranted a closer look--whether to uncover dishonesty, a glitch, or to dispense with any doubt. Had review vindicated PJ, UF probably would've continued to pursue him. Frankly, PJ's defensive reaction (calling UF cowards, etc...)--betrays guilt.
If he was good enough to improve that much, why wouldn't he exhaust his potential to go to the best school he could get into? (UF's academic standards are much higher than LSU's or UM's).
Answer: the ACT was but a box to be checked off list in order to play CFB. By any means...even if in means using a ringer.
My $.02.
GO GATORS!!
gOSU27 said:
posted on January 20, 2008 3:48 PM — 207.74.25.36 — link — abuse?Kind of like Terelle Pryor...