September 20, 2006
Master Coaches Poll: Week 3
The Ohio State Buckeyes are the No. 1 team in the first Master Coaches Poll of the 2006 season. USC, Auburn, West Virginia and Florida round out the Top 5.
Former USC coach John Robinson, one of the Master Coaches, believes that the top teams in the country rely much more on their defenses than last season. “Defense is going to be heard from a lot more this season,” Robinson said. “I think the biggest achievement of the year so far was Auburn’s win over LSU, particularly without giving up a touchdown.”
Master Coaches Poll
1. Ohio State (15)
2. Southern Cal (1)
3. Auburn (1)
4. West Virginia
5. Florida
6. Michigan
7. Georgia
8. Texas
9. Louisville
10. LSU
11. Virginia Tech
12. Oregon
13. Iowa
14. Notre Dame
15. TCU
16. Tennessee
17. Oklahoma
18. Boston College
19. Florida State
20. California
21. Arizona State
22. Clemson
23. Nebraska
24. UCLA
25. Georgia Tech
Other teams receiving votes ... Alabama, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Penn State, Boise State, Miami, Rutgers, Purdue, Missouri, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M
Voters - John Cooper, Terry Donahue, Vince Dooley, Pat Dye, LaVell Edwards, Hayden Fry, Don James, Frank Kush, Dick MacPherson, Bill Mallory, Don Nehlen, John Ralston, John Robinson, Bo Schembechler, RC Slocum, Gene Stallings and George Welsh
Comments:
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on September 20, 2006 8:33 PM — 206.135.38.217 — link — abuse?
Here is the record of the Top Six SEC teams against all competition (means good and bad teams) from the other five Major Conferences (Pac-10,ACC,Big East,Big 10 and Big 12) from the period of 2000-2006:
Georgia 11-3 397 off 249 def
LSU 7-3 305 off 221 def
Tennessee 6-4 225 off 177 def
Florida 5-9 359 off 397 def
Auburn 4-8 190 off 259 def
Alabama 2-5 124 off 154 defThat's a combined record of 35-32 with an average score of 23.9 to 21.8 - true dominance against an average of teams from the other top conferences! Keep in mind: this is the Top Six in the SEC. Now, granted, Georgia, LSU and Tennessee seem to fair pretty well. But, sadly, Florida, Auburn and Alabama don't do too well against other average teams.
I'll be taking the top half of the other conferences and we'll see how some of them fair over the next few days. But, just to start off with - I just had to throw out some of the real crude numbers that the Elite SEC teams have been posting over the last seven years. Makes sense to schedule games against Lamar, LA-Monroe and Tuscaloosa Boys Club when you're very best can't seem to muster up better than this. Georgia did post a 9-1 record against steller competition from the ACC over this time period also. Aren't Wake Forest and Duke in that league?Tommie T
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on September 20, 2006 8:51 PM — 206.135.38.217 — link — abuse?
Here is the Pac-10's Top Five teams records against the other Top Five Conferences (ACC,SEC,Big 10,Big 12 and Big East) over the period of 2000 thru 2006:
USC 10-3 412 off 197 def
UCLA 10-5 397 off 348 def
California 6-4 345 off 295 def
Oregon 6-6 328 off 293 def
Arizona State 6-6 353 off 350 defPeople that is 38-24 with an average score of 29.6 to 23.9 a game. Now, notice that none of these teams has a losing record against the other top conferences? How can this be that the Pac-10 has a far superior record than the SEC's 35-32 with 23.9 to 21.8? How is this possible when everybody knows that the Top Six in the SEC are far superior teams than the Top Five in the Pac-10? I can't for the life of me figure this one out. It has to be that all the Pac-10 plays is lousy teams from the other conferences and that the SEC plays only the very best from those conferences. That's what it is, right?
Tommie T
Aufan32206 said:
posted on September 21, 2006 1:07 AM — 208.45.204.125 — link — abuse?
How can these lengends of coaching Place USC ahead of Auburn? What do they have to do. Beat a top ten team? Done Blow out Sec and Pac10 opponents? Done. What has USC done? Beat a lowly sec team and one has been Big 12 team. And what the F@*& is up with ESPN Game Day not being on the Plains last saturday. Is #3 vs #6 not good enough for them. Or is USC that much prettier than Auburn?
AUCrazy said:
posted on September 21, 2006 2:05 AM — 71.229.225.173 — link — abuse?
Defense should count for something. It appears that the media does not give enough credit to strong speedy defensive teams that can force offenses to become one dimensional. Which is exactly what will happen to USC when they meet a strong defensive team. Let's see, oh yeah Arkansas the Defensive Juggernaut! And Nebraska another strong defense with huge holes that CU could pass through.
OU Fan said:
posted on September 21, 2006 9:03 AM — 72.161.218.78 — link — abuse?
Tommie Trojan, I have to hand it to you, I don't think anyone can argue with your argument. Its all facts and proof that the SEC is not as dominant as everyone says. Right on. Go Tulsa! Go Sooners! Beat Texas! Peterson for Heisman!
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on September 21, 2006 2:39 PM — 206.135.38.217 — link — abuse?
OU Fan:
Oklahoma has had many great runs also - and were recognized as being great when they were. I do hope at this point that Oklahoma can get a win over Texas. It is too bad that both Bomar and Grady had to fail the program. I hope Thompson continues to lead the Sooners back to the top. I have always enjoyed Oklahoma being a premier team. Too bad that the Okies had to take one in the rearend up in Oregon - but, all teams get lousy breaks and good breaks. Sometimes it just happens that way. USC had a couple of calls go against us against Texas last yeare that nobody ever wanted to mention. We also got away with one in South Bend. It all evens out in the long run. Better to take that bad break this year rather in one of the next few years when an Oklahoma National Title could be on the line. Good luck to the Sooners the rest of the way.
P.S. - I will further break down those conference relationships further by only pitting the top teams in each conference against the top teams from the other conferences. I already know that the only conference that really outplays the Pac-10 consistantly is the Big 12. We'll all see that when I post those numbers.
Tommie T
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on September 21, 2006 4:47 PM — 206.135.38.217 — link — abuse?
You can always hear the deafening roar from the SEC faithful when the facts are posted. In fact: you won't hear anything at all. Not even a comment. They simply refuse to understand that they collectively do not play very well against OOC competition. You will never see a "real" number that suggests that the SEC is the "greatest conference". It'll never happen. And, they'll never comment on the facts when they are staring them straight in the face.
Tommie T
So Cal USMC said:
posted on September 21, 2006 6:07 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Tommy T,
"But, but, but, LSU destroyed Miami last year" ... is the best reply you're gonna get from them Tommy T.
On top of that, I can all but guarantee you that those SEC teams BENEFITED from Homefield more often than teams from those other conferences did... which only stresses the point even further.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on September 21, 2006 8:05 PM — 206.135.38.217 — link — abuse?
So Cal USMC:
I tried not to rub that in, but fact is, more like 66-75% of all those games were played in the South. Might even be higher than that. It is incredible how not very good they really are. And, you're right - they never want to travel away from home. Yet, they knock the Pac-10 endlessly that it is a lousy conference. The Pac-10 has had the superior record against other conferences for a long long time. The only conference that has a winning record against the Pac-10 over the years is the Big 12. They do give us alot of trouble.
Tommie T
TrojanHorse said:
posted on September 27, 2006 11:31 AM — 155.104.37.17 — link — abuse?
Auburn come talk when you have won (48 out of your last 50) and (51 of 55) including two over AU. There is not (and i mean ZERO) a 1-AA win in the bunch, nor are there any wins against Buffalo, MAC schools, UL-anywhere in the lot either. Lets see, lets talk non-con ROAD games which in my opinion is a good test of how good you are, SC has had (since 2002) @Auburn (03- a shutout I believe), @ND twice (03/05), @CU (02), @Arkansas (06) (as opposed to Ark STATE), @BYU (04), @Virg. Tech (04), @Hawaii (05), @Kansas State (02) and now lets see what AU has played on the ROAD games hmmmm I'm looking.. oh heres one @GT, @USC (02 - a loss I do believe) and thats all I found.. TWO stinkin non con road games in four years and you lost one of them. Thats why you are ranked behind USC, benefit of the doubt is given to teams that go on the road to play other BCS conf teams (I know not every one of SC's non cons the last 4 years is a BCS conf team) rather than those that schedule 1-AA's at home and UL-anywheres at home. As long as you continue to schedule like that, and are comparable to teams that schedule difficult non-cons, you will be on the short end of the respectability stick. Its not only AU, but its most of the SEC
gatorhippy said:
posted on September 27, 2006 3:59 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Tommie:
Actually the PAC-10 has a losing record, historically (since 1869), against all the following conferences:Big Ten .499
Southwest (defunct) .476
Big 12 .472
SEC .393But, yes, the Big 12 does appear to give you fits...
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on September 27, 2006 8:17 PM — 206.135.38.217 — link — abuse?
GatorHippy:
Hey, I'm not even gonna try and debate that one. Of course, the Pac-10 is probably the youngest of the major conferences - so, it would stand as such that they probably were behind all the other top conferences from their berth. In fact, I don't think that the Pac-10 even became a conference until the early 1960's - so I fail to understand what going back to 1869 has to do with anything. I do know that USC and Cal were major powers way back from the 1920's. But, historically, Michigan and Nebraska and Alabama have probably all had great teams for alot longer than any west coast team has.
My critiques were based on football games played post single-wing and from the beginning of the plastic helmet. Heck, we might want to even start from the beginning of the forward pass or the abolishion of double duty. I don't know maybe your right - maybe the Ivy League really is better than the Pac-10. They certainly have more experience.Tommie T
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on September 27, 2006 8:52 PM — 206.135.38.217 — link — abuse?
One of the great reasons for SEC hype is the fact that most all Bowl games have been historically played in the south. Of course, they would have always preferred southern teams. This practice went on for many many years. The Big 10 and Pac-10 conferences limited their conferences to only the conference champion attending the Rose Bowl. Notre Dame also did not attend bowl games for many years.
So, teams from the SEC, Old Southwestern conference and Old Big 8 dominated the post season. This built up alot of hype for all those teams and fans and the other schools were left out.
Southern Cal and Ohio State are no longer limited to just beating themselves up. This scares the people in the south to death. They would never really want to have to go and play against the people who have dominated the "Grand Daddy of them all". They know that the real National Championship was almost always decided in that game. Now, they face the stark raving terror of having to meet those same kind of teams on some neutral field somewhere at the end of the season. That's why they will always root for the best programs to lose. They never really want to face the best. They just want Auburn and Florida or LSU to play for a National Championship. They never want to have to take on a great Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame or USC team when all the marbles are on the line. Heck, they're really lucky that Miami and Florida State has had to do most of the dirty work in the Orange Bowl against the likes of Nebraska and Oklahoma.
No, the Sugar Bowl was never close to being the best game. Oh yeh, they'd have a great Alabama team play Penn State or someone like that. But, the Cotton and Sugar Bowls never had the type of teams that the Orange and Rose Bowls had. Notre Dame would always have to go to the Cotton Bowl and play Texas cause the south wanted none of that. No, of the top eight teams - most of the time #8 was somehow playing in the Sugar Bowl against the SEC's automatic invite. No, respect has got to be earned people. Historically the SEC has never taken on the best and been able to win.
Maybe someday they'll quit being scared of the really good programs and understand that it would be an honor to take their place on that field alongside those other historically great programs. Thumbs up to Nebraska-USC, Oklahoma-Texas, Ohio State-Texas, Notre Dame-USC, Michigan-Notre Dame, Miami-Florida State and any other great schools that have met many times on an OOC football game. Thumbs down to good teams that don't have the heart to try and grab greatness!Tommie T
gatorhippy said:
posted on September 28, 2006 11:48 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Well, i would think that if we are going to have a discussion about the HISTORY of football we should run it from the date of the earliest actual sanctioned competition...but for you Tommie T...
Since 1978 (the year the PAC-10 officially came about with the addition of Arizona & 'Zona State)
The Pac 10 has losing records (historically) against:
Big XII: .462
ACC: .421
SEC: .404So yes, the Big 12, does give you fits...still
GA Boy said:
posted on September 30, 2006 8:47 PM — 66.110.197.20 — link — abuse?
Tommie T
I included Fresno St and Boise St in the mix since they are the best of the Wacked out WAC, which you have played against quite often since 2000 (and you mock our wins against, GA Tech, Clemson, Florida St), and the records come out to be GA 13-3 (.813) and USC 16-5 (.762). I included our win against CU this year and your wins against Arkansas and Nebraska. Not bad for the DAWGS in OOC play.
DAWGS wins---Boise St, GA Tech(5 wins), Wisconsin, Clemson (2 wins), Purdue (2 wins), Florida St, Colorado. DAWG losses---W VA, Boston College, GA Tech.
USC wins---Arkansas (2 wins), Nebraska, Notre Dame (3 wins), Fresno St, Virginia Tech, Colorado St, Oklahoma, Auburn (2 wins), Michigan, Colorado, Notre Dame, Iowa. USC losses---Texas, Kansas St (2 losses), Notre Dame (2 losses), Utah.The Mayor said:
posted on October 1, 2006 2:56 AM — 24.23.202.200 — link — abuse?
Since the inception of the Pac 10 in 1978, twice as many of the PAC/SEC games have been played at home for the SEC.
75% of those games came at home by LSU and Tennessee against Pac 10 teams with losing records.
Big Deal.
Let the Pac 10 SEC thread die.
2006: SEC: 3-1 Pac 10: 1-3
End of conversation until Bowl Games....this year.
Elvis is dead, let the King die!
Gerald said:
posted on October 1, 2006 8:28 AM — 216.113.128.239 — link — abuse?
The Mayor:
End of conversation until Bowl Games? Unfortunately, we do not play you guys in bowl games. An Auburn - Southern Cal (or Oregon) national title game is extremely unlikely, and for some strange reason (BIAS perhaps?) the SEC never gets at - large bids ... the sole SEC at large BCS bid was defending national champs Tennessee in 1999.
And the way that ASU, Oregon State, and UCLA are looking this year and with the PAC - 10 foolishly adding that ninth conference game, how many PAC - 10 teams will even GET to bowl games, eh? Losses to Cal, Southern Cal, and Oregon are automatic (in my opinion anyway), and then Washington, WSU, ASU, Oregon State, and UCLA are all just going to beat each other up.
In any event, SEC fans did not start this PAC - 10/SEC conversation. PAC - 10 fans, egged on by the media, started it with the Southern Cal/LSU in 2003 and Southern Cal/Auburn in 2004 nonsense, and have pretty much kept it going since then. Funny, PAC - 10 fans tend to like to keep the argument going when it benefits them (i.e. Southern Cal beating mighty Arkansas and those GREAT 5 loss pre - Al Borges Auburn teams and Auburn and UGA losing bowl games last season), but want to drop it when it swings the other way. Along the way it has created a lot of bitterness on both sides, so unfortunately these arguments are not going to stop anytime soon. MAYBE Southern Cal getting drilled by an SEC team OR a PAC - 10 team other than Southern Cal winning a national title would stop it, short of that I cannot see what it would be.
Gerald said:
posted on October 1, 2006 9:26 AM — 216.113.128.239 — link — abuse?
Tommie Trojan:
Ha ha. You mysteriously started your analysis in 2000. That excludes BOTH the great seasons of Florida and Tennessee in the 1990s AND the horrible PAC - 10 play during that decade, when the PAC - 10 twice had 8 - 4 Rose Bowl representatives (and the PAC - 10 champs weren't much better otherwise). But it is JUST IN TIME to include when Belloti and Tedford got Cal and Oregon rolling along, and (of course) Southern Cal under Pete Carroll. Go back to 1990 or even to 1995, and Cal isn't even on your list: Stanford is. And would Oregon be on that list, or would Arizona or Washington be? Hmmm ...
And yes, SEC teams can and will claim that they have played tougher teams. Let us compare, for instance, California and Auburn. Auburn has had two games against Southern Cal, two games against Georgia Tech, a game against Washington State, and bowl games against 10 - 3 Wisconsin and ACC champs Virginia Tech (plus another bowl game against Wisconsin, and Penn State and Virginia as other bowl opponents).
California, on the other hand, has played Tennessee, Minnesota, Illinois twice, Kansas State, Baylor, and Michigan State, with bowl games against Texas Tech (3rd place team in the Big 12) and an 8 - 6 Virginia Tech team that had long quit on the season and needed a missed extra point in overtime against Temple just to become bowl eligible.
The best nonconference victory that Auburn has had? I would perhaps say over ACC champs Virginia Tech. The best nonconference victory that Cal has had? Over Virginia Tech too, but not the 10 - 3 one that ended the season with 7 victories in a row, but the 8 - 6 one that needed a missed extra point in overtime against Temple in order to prevent having lost 5 of their last 6.
As another example, let us take Florida. They play FSU every year, and FSU has been the ACC champs in every season since 2000 save two, and in one of those years they played ACC champs Maryland in a bowl game. Florida also had a home - and - home against Big East champs Miami during that time. They also played two bowl games against Miami (who were 11 - 1 and 9 - 3) AND two bowl games against Iowa (who were 10 - 3 one of those times), as well as against strong Michigan team.
Now that actually compares QUITE FAVORABLY to Southern Cal! Losing Arkansas teams; 5 loss Auburn teams; a Nebraska that is NOT an Osborne, Devaney, or even a Solich program; a Notre Dame team that has not won a bowl game since the early 90s; Virginia Tech; Kansas State; Colorado; and Penn State (not one of their rare recent winning teams). In the regular season, Southern Cal has only played ONE winner of another BCS conference, and that was Virginia Tech. Auburn, Colorado, and Kansas State were not even the #2 (or #3 or 4) teams in their conferences. Southern Cal does make up for it in bowl games: Big 10 champs Michigan and Iowa, Big 12 champs Texas and Oklahoma. But Florida has regularly played conference champs in the regular season AND bowl season during this time.
Southern Cal has played 5 confererence champs from 2000 - 2006 (and even that is being kind, as Iowa was most certainly NOT Ohio State in 2003; Iowa lost to 6 - 6 Iowa State where Ohio State won the national ittle), and Florida has played 7 (Miami and FSU in 2000, Maryland in 2001, FSU in 2002, FSU and Miami in 2003, FSU in 2005).So yes, Florida has played TOUGHER major conference opposition than Southern Cal. So, here is your response from an SEC fan.
GA Boy said:
posted on October 1, 2006 2:57 PM — 66.110.197.20 — link — abuse?
Tommie T
Care to reconsider that prediction that USC crushes Washington? That didn't look so good against Washington St last night. I know I have no right to talk considering our performances against CU and Ole Miss, but I am not touting the DAWGS as the best this season either. Anyway, you got a win, but I wouldn't be so cocky if I were you. Somebody in that PAC conference is going to knock you off your perch. I say it will be Washington.I hope our DAWGS offense comes up with something before this weekend against TN or it could be a long night. I say they need to score 28 to beat the Volunteers. GO DAWGS!!!!
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brownsrodeo88 said:
posted on September 20, 2006 5:50 PM — 205.188.116.133 — link — abuse?Ive heard of 3 of those voters, and one won a national championship for Bama.