October 16, 2006
The brawl that broke the camel's back?
There is a lot of talk - from both inside and outside the program - about the repercussions of the latest Miami brawl. (Just a note - any time you have to outline WHICH brawl you're referring to, that's not a good sign.)
It's sad that it happened in the first place, but what has transpired since the incident highlights a program that may be suffering from a true lack of leadership.
After the game, Miami Head Coach Larry Coker said that there wouldn't be suspensions and that the brawl wouldn't affect the image of the program. Hours later, Coker came out and said that "at least eight" players would be suspended. And then the ACC stepped in and upped the ante on suspension to thirteen players.
That's three different stands on one issue , which begs the question: Who - if anyone - is in control at Miami?
And while this brawl is one incident, it isn't without several related events during the last twelve months. There was the brawl at the Peach Bowl. And then earlier this year, the Hurricanes nearly touched off a pre-game fight at Louisville.
Former Hurricane coach Fran Curci thinks this further darkens Miami's image:
"As a Hurricane ex-coach and ex-player, I'm embarrassed about it," Fran Curci said Sunday of Saturday's melee. "It was obnoxious. It was a black eye for college football."Curci, an All-American quarterback at Miami in 1959 and later the program's head coach, said it didn't matter that two schools were involved in Saturday's fracas — even though Florida International had 18 players suspended Sunday, five more than Miami.
"Who cares about FIU?" Curci said. "I don't care if they came out with guns, it's Miami's fault. When you've earned that reputation you're going to get that reputation. Yeah, it concerns me. I see nothing good coming out of that."
LA Times writer Chris Dufresne takes it one step further:
What transpired Saturday night — and the images that were transmitted to television sets — could be viewed as conduct detrimental to the program.You have to wonder about the futures of Athletic Director Paul Dee and Coach Larry Coker.
Doesn't someone have to pay for this?
Palm Beach Post Jorge Milian, a UM beat writer for 10+ years:
"Never have I seen conduct more reprehensible that what I saw on Saturday night.... It's amazing that no one got seriously hurt or even killed."
Tom Luicci from the Star-Ledger says Coker should be gone over this:
It doesn't matter if the Hurricanes run the table, finish 10-2 and play in the ACC championship game. Saturday's brawl with FIU was the latest evidence that Coker has lost control. A real good guy in a very bad job (are you listening, Greg Schiano?)
Miami University Trustees are meeting Monday to discuss the incident and the overall direction of the football program. Do they fire Coker now or wait until the end of the season? Does AD Paul Dee go with him?
Tony Barnhart of the Altanta Constitution Journal:
Given the behavioral pattern of certain members of the football team, the message has obviously not gotten through to the student athletes at Coral Gables. I suggest that John Swofford, the ACC commissioner, make the following recommendations:*Any player who used his helmet as a weapon or stomped on another player last Saturday will be immediately suspended for the rest of the season.
*Any player who left the bench to participate in the fight will be suspended for three games. Sitting out this week against Duke just doesn’t count as any kind of meaningful punishment.
*If the University of Miami football program is involved another altercation of any kind this season, it will be banned from postseason play.
*If Miami is banned from postseason play, a portion of shared revenue for the 2006-07 year will be withheld by the conference.
The ACC invited Miami to join in order to improve the academic and athletic profile of the league. At the time, the ACC was given assurances that Miami, thanks to the work of former coach Butch Davis, had cleaned up its renegade act.
Guess not.
I understand the sentiment, but the ACC lacks the stones to actual enforce a penalty on Miami.
The truth of the matter is that this brawl should be more embarrassing to Miami fans, boosters, and trustees than last year's loss to North Carolina. Nope, this isn't about poor X's and O's. This fight --that's be replayed over & over on national television-- is much more damaging to Miami's reputation that any isolated incident of this player being arrested, or that player being involved in a drive-by shooting. This isn't about the actions of one player. This is about Miami being
Miami has a choice - they can let the events define them or they can stand up & define themselves by their actions. Sadly, the Miami trustees need to step in to save the university from the Hurricanes. Fire Larry Coker today. Fire AD Paul Dee today.
Comments:
S.C.U.M. said:
posted on October 16, 2006 10:42 AM — 209.168.248.130 — link — abuse?
"Sadly, the Miami trustees need to step in to save the university from the Hurricanes."
Give me a break. Take away the Hurricanes and the University of Miami has only Gloria Estefan. The Hurricanes are the best thing to happen to this school.
Further, FIU started the fight (for no good reason). Where is the movement to ban FIU from football?
sean said:
posted on October 16, 2006 11:38 AM — 209.82.168.215 — link — abuse?
I post on this site often and most of you know I'm a loyal Cane. Grew up in South Florida and never stopped pulling for them, even when we were on probation and lost to East Carolina.
I'm sickened by this. I'd have rather lost to FIU than see those images played over and over, and start hearing the "Thug U" taunts again.
Sure, FIU really started the pot boiling and were mainly responsible for the fight, but we went too far.
I agree with the Sport's writers, this has got to be the death knell for Coker. Let him finish out what's left of our pathetic season, and hope and pray that Greg Schiano would be willing to come.Brian Mcgrath said:
posted on October 16, 2006 11:57 AM — 75.13.65.62 — link — abuse?
After the local prosecuting attorney reviews the footage from the Miami Florida game, charges should be files against players who assail other players first (not self defense). Also, weapons charges should be filed against the helmet wielding thugs. Expulsions not suspensions should commence immediately. Starting with Coach Coker.
How many KO'S or TKO's does a Miami player need before he registers as a heavy weight
posted on October 16, 2006 12:01 PM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue said:
SCUM - you seem fixated on blame, causation, and who "started" the fight. I'll humor you for a moment. Who started the LSU fight? Was that FIU's fault? Who nearly started the Louisville fight? Was that FIU's fault, too?
People are seeing this come up with the Canes over and over again. At some point, everyone stops focusing on why and starts looking at who. And --time after time-- it's Miami.
Do you not recognize that EVERY TV station played that clip? You've said it yourself - it's MIAMI. How many people (general public) in the country even know (let alone care) who/where FIU is?
Your COACH and TEAM embarrassed your school. You should know what a hard @ss Shalala is. Do you really think she's going to stand for that? Should she even have to? Should the trustees have to defend crap like this? Should you -- as a Miami fan -- have to take this every couple of months when Miami gets into a brawl?
At some point, someone at Miami needs to be held accountable for the Peach Bowls, and Louisville games, and FIU games.
You can't fire the players, SCUM.
hricane23 said:
posted on October 16, 2006 12:10 PM — 170.135.241.45 — link — abuse?
The most embarrassing thing about this is that it gives everyone something new to "pile on" about. I don't condone the actions of the players. I'm sure a LARGE percentage of us have been involved in a game that broke into at least a near fracas. Now:
1. Throw in more than 100 teenagers who've been told something along the lines that the guy in the opposing color is there to kill them;
2. Mix in a little of the fact that the opposing squad is composed primarily not only of guys you went to school with, but guys from other schools that you've battled and hated for several years already;
3. Add that you've been called "soft" and "unmotivated" and that you "lack heart";
and finally, 4. Shake with the fact that you'd been late hit, cheap shot, and ankle-bitten since the beginning of the game by a bunch of kids who wanted to be in your jersey, but lacked something;
And voila! You have a great recipe for a brawl! And one more point, does it really matter that Anthony Reddick hit someone in the back with his helmet? Does it really matter that Meriweather kicked some guy? Does it matter that some FIU guy swung his crutch at a bunch of dudes? Does it matter that FIU #24 kicked Miami's Perelli in the helmet? So far, I've heard of no one being injured as a result of the fight. Know why? CAUSE THEY'RE WEARING BODY ARMOR!!! Helmets, shoulder pads, cowboy collars, flak jackets, hip pads, thigh pads, knee pads, and cups. They're way more protected than baseball players, who we seem to love getting into bench clearing brawls.
Something like this cannot be tolerated, and punishments should be levied. But do certain players need to be kicked off them team? Should Miami and FIU be forced to forfeit the rest of the season? Should someone be arrested? Let he without sin cast the first stone. I think I read that in some book. Suspend, move on, get over with it.ThatGuy said:
posted on October 16, 2006 12:29 PM — 207.230.144.240 — link — abuse?
SCUM says "Take away the Hurricanes and the University of Miami has only Gloria Estefan. The Hurricanes are the best thing to happen to this school."
Geez, that ain't saying much then, is it? You have thousands of band wagon fans (many of whom probably only love the team BECAUSE of their thug perception), you have a crappy stadium in a horrible part of town, and you can't get your own fans to go to the games. Yeah, thank god for football or that University would be in trouble, right?
I think it's time for the NCAA and the conferences to put in rules...tough rules...for incidents like this. Like the NBA and NHL...you leave the bench, you should get suspended, regardless of what you do if you leave the bench....period. Throw a punch, kick someone, throw a helmet...you should revoke the scholorship, no questions asked.
The macho bravado of today's male athletes makes me sick some time. It takes a bigger man to walk away from a fight then to get into it in the first place. You want respect? Let the other people act like fools, win the game and walk away. Do that a few times and see if people keep calling you thugs.
HankF said:
posted on October 16, 2006 12:53 PM — 12.42.43.114 — link — abuse?
Every single player involved must be banned from every playing football again, have their scholarship revoked, ineligible for the draft, and have appropriate criminal charges brought against them.
Both head coaches and ADs must be fired and (somehow) blackballed from every being allowed in a football stadium again. They should be tried for any possible criminal charges and preferably thrown in jail for a long time.
Miami's sports programs must be shut down completely for at least 5 years. No sports of any kind allowed. Infact perhaps just shuttering the doors on the whole place is warratned.
I know I am being a little lenient on them, just didn't want to go overboard.
posted on October 16, 2006 1:28 PM — link — abuse?
Tony Barnhart of the Altanta Constitution Journal:
Given the behavioral pattern of certain members of the football team, the message has obviously not gotten through to the student athletes at Coral Gables. I suggest that John Swofford, the ACC commissioner, make the following recommendations:
*Any player who used his helmet as a weapon or stomped on another player last Saturday will be immediately suspended for the rest of the season.
*Any player who left the bench to participate in the fight will be suspended for three games. Sitting out this week against Duke just doesn’t count as any kind of meaningful punishment.
*If the University of Miami football program is involved another altercation of any kind this season, it will be banned from postseason play.
*If Miami is banned from postseason play, a portion of shared revenue for the 2006-07 year will be withheld by the conference.
The ACC invited Miami to join in order to improve the academic and athletic profile of the league. At the time, the ACC was given assurances that Miami, thanks to the work of former coach Butch Davis, had cleaned up its renegade act.
Guess not.
I understand the sentiment, but the ACC lacks the stones to actual enforce a penalty on Miami.
Dingus said:
posted on October 16, 2006 1:35 PM — 65.120.217.122 — link — abuse?
SCUM, why do you keep on saying FIU "started" the fight? Why does that even matter? Does that justify what happened?
hricane23 (post #6), with all due respect, your logic about no harm no foul is ridiculous. And your Biblical quote only further re-enforces those that are pointing to Miami ... "let him without sin ..." How many examples of "sin" does Miami have? I'd have to take off my shoes to count that high!
S.C.U.M. said:
posted on October 16, 2006 1:38 PM — 209.168.248.130 — link — abuse?
Kevin Donahue - You, fans of other teams, and the media in general are fixated on blame - blaming the 'Canes for a fight they didn't start. This post was about assigning blame to the 'Canes (and Coker and Dee), blame I don't think they, as a team (or institution), deserve. Certain PLAYERS on BOTH teams should be punished.
Who started the LSU fight? I don't know. The Louisville fight? Again, uncertain. Who started this fight: an FIU player.
Thank you for recognizing your own prejudice, though. As you said, "[a]t some point, everyone stops focusing on why and starts looking at who."
posted on October 16, 2006 1:40 PM — link — abuse?
Fox Radio's Steve Czabe:
Time to shut down Miami football for a few years.
No really. It’s long overdue.
You can say Florida International “started it” on Saturday. You can say that individual suspensions are penalty enough for the thugs caught on tape swinging helmets and stomping players.
You can say all you want, but the reality is this: the Miami Hurri-Cons remain the most classless, thug riddled Division 1A program in the nation. Sure, other schools like Ohio State have had their academic and off-field issues.
But no team, no program, so consistently ends up starting un-necessary shit on the field quite like “Da U!”
S.C.U.M. said:
posted on October 16, 2006 1:42 PM — 209.168.248.130 — link — abuse?
Tony Barnart says (translation):
Miami is coming to town in two weeks. Although Georgia Tech is a stronger team, I want the ACC to ensure that Miami cannot possibly stand in the way of Georgia Tech winning the ACC this year.
SC Crippler said:
posted on October 16, 2006 1:53 PM — 206.74.172.254 — link — abuse?
The (lack of) punishment is appalling. When South Carolina and Clemson had the brawl two years ago, the ACC and SEC were quick to step in and ban both from bowls (both had already qualified) and mandated suspensions for next season.
So, why is Miami not subject to that same penalty? The only difference in the two situations is that the Carolina-Clemson brawl happened in the last game. That should hardly matter. Miami should also be banned from a bowl this year just like S Carolina and Clemson were....except that the ACC begged Miami to join so they won't want to punish them too much right now. Have some integrity and keep the Canes home!!!!gatorhippy said:
posted on October 16, 2006 1:53 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Kevin D:
Good point, let's explore that a little further:
In the early Nineties, the Canes were involved in a massive bench clearing brawl with Colorado that lasted nearly 30 minutes and actually covered the entire field from beginning to end. All of which was broadcast on national television from start to finish.
Also the U was involved in the infamous pregame fight in the Tunnel at South Bend; changing a ND tradition of both teams running from the tunnel together.
Not to mention the numerous small skirmishes that have occurred and come under public scrutiny over the last twenty five years since Miami has come into annual national prominence.
It seems the the latest brawl accompanied with the recent incidents at UL, Peach Bowl, etc. are just additions to a long history of similiar situations that seem to happen when UM takes the field and existed long before Coker took over the reins.
However, unfortunately, for Larry this latest incident has come a time when the coach is already on the hot seat.
If the Canes were undeafeated would this latest incident even cause a ripple in the UM fanbase?
Nobody wanted Johnson or Erickson canned after the Colorado or Irish incidents.
To claim Coker has no control over a program that has a LONG history of this exact same thing is nothing more than a scapegoat excuse.
While we do see a coach that is struggling with a tougher conference schedule and keeping Miami-Dade recruits at home, to hold him responsible for this latest incident is unfair.
Where is the demand that we hold these players responsible for their actions?
When they get as DUI, do drugs, beat their old lady or participate in bar room brawls we expect them to be held accountable for their own actions.
So why is a fight on the football field any different?
If Coker should be fired over this; shouldn't the participants involved in the ACTUAL most vicious and flagrant acts of violence in this incident be "fired" (meaning scholarship revocation and expulsion) from the University as well?
Leggett throwing a running punch?
Meriweather and Farr stomping on the on heads?
Reddick landing blows with his helmet?(Special note to Reddick: When involved in a mosh pit melee in football, it is best to keep your helmet ON your head to protect your bean, lest you get cold cocked with a crutch.)
All these players receive a slap on the wrist and a "it's not your fault, the coach should have told you not to fight" example?
That would seem to be the message that is being sent.
Granted, I feel the same way for FIU players that were stomping on UM's holder and swinging crutches.
I think in the end this could become an NCAA issue considering the lax penalties being thrown around by the universities and ACC.
posted on October 16, 2006 1:56 PM — link — abuse?
SCUM - You and I may have to agree to disagree.
You think this is about assigning blame. I think it's about taking responsibility.
You're talking about singleing people out. I'm talking about standing up for the entire group and saying the buck stops here.
You're burying your head and don't see a problem. I'm suggesting UM actually do something to improve their lot in life.
If you think there's a horde of evil media people out to get Miami, then you have truly lost touch & unaware of just how far Miami has fallen.
VTBobb said:
posted on October 16, 2006 2:14 PM — 71.248.18.175 — link — abuse?
Thank goodness for Miami. I've been pretty embarrassed about how the Hokies have handled themselves over the last few years...mugging for the camera, various off-field incidences and on-field cheap shots…and a meltdown against BC on Thursday.
Then Miami comes along on Saturday and shows that while VT hasn’t achieved the pinnacle of football excellence that Miami has in years past, neither have they reached the depths of their thuggery.
Sure, both FIU and Miami are to blame, and brawls in football are nothing new, but most programs have maybe 1 such incident in 4 or 5 years…Miami has 3 in 7 games. Either Miami is on the wrong end of the most improbable string of false-blame ever in college football, or they are what they seem.
On a side note, while watching WVU hand Syracuse their tale on Saturday, I couldn’t help but notice that they generally played with class and character…Refreshing to see a successful program handle itself like they are supposed to, with maturity.
CFB_CRZY said:
posted on October 16, 2006 2:15 PM — 72.165.136.4 — link — abuse?
The actions that have occurred are un-acceptable and the consequences need to be quick, unquestionable, and un-appealable. It should effect the entire Football program. The program is responsible for creating/allowing an environment to exist that gives way to these actions. All players on both teams are responsible for upholding a level of etiquette and positive perception for both the NCAA and the Educational Institution they represent. My solution: All teams remaining on Miami's and FIU's schedules get a bye for that week they play these institutions! Not a win just a bye, and Miami's and FIU's season are ended! I think that should send enough of a message that a change is in order!
posted on October 16, 2006 2:36 PM — link — abuse?
I know we said agree to disagree, but...DOUBLE STANDARD?? PUH-LEEZ!!
Last season when Clemson & South Carolina players fought (swinging helmets, stomping players, etc) both teams came out and said NO BOWL GAME. No trip, no parade, no gifts, no rings, no big check for the school, no NOTHING.
UM is coming out and (grudgingly) suspending players for one game.
Double standard??? Only if you care to argue that Miami is getting off light.
hricane23 said:
posted on October 16, 2006 2:44 PM — 170.135.241.45 — link — abuse?
Dingus,
My "no harm, no foul" argument is not that at all. I understand that there is an inherent harm in brawling, even without any injuries. It simply shouldn't have happened. My point, however, was that swinging one's helmet at someone with shoulder pads is not much different than a boxer with gloves sparring with a guy wearing a helmet. One difference I can think of is that the boxers are there to trade blows. But then again, after the brawl started, the Panthers and Canes were also there to throw blows. And I understand that Miami has committed "sins", but so has everyone else. So have all the people calling for the dismantling of the Miami football program. What I'm saying, or trying to say in the post, is that I'm sick of all the namby-pamby do-gooders who jump on the negative issues and give it 1000% more time than it deserves. The only reason this story gets the attention it is is because of the "U" on the helmets. Did anybody call for the Clemson or South Carolina programs to be dismantled after their fight? Has anybody ever suggested legal ramifications for these baseball bench-clearing brawls that ESPN, which seems so excited to rail on Miami for, has gone ahead and ranked? http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/basebrawl.html
Come on! All I'm saying is that this is no North Korea testing a nuke. This is no Rep. Foley molesting pages. This isn't even an earthquake in Hawaii!!! Show the tape, suspend some players, and get over it.A. Nutfan said:
posted on October 16, 2006 2:51 PM — 24.95.70.157 — link — abuse?
Kevin,
I agree with you that SCUM appears to have his blinders on in this situation but why did you have to bring OHIO STATE in this discussion[ post 16]. Jim Tressel seems to have a class of very respectable kids this year and they deserve to be applauded.Dingus said:
posted on October 16, 2006 2:53 PM — 65.120.217.122 — link — abuse?
Gatorhippy and Kevin D make good points. Both have highlighted UM's long history of incidents, both on and off the field. It's Miami's own history that has so many people ready to throw the proverbial book at this program, not the media, not the NCAA, not the ACC, etc.
Let's also be very clear (for about the 88th time)--FIU swinging crutches and other such behavior is totally unacceptable and those players should also be dealt with severely. But please--name another 3 incidents that FIU has been involved in this season ... or ever. Go ahead, I'll wait.
Side note--GatorHippy, I'm glad someone brought up that Miami/Colorado brawl from back in the day ... I will never forget that ... watching Dan Morgan kicking Buffalo players who were down on the ground. I'm sure the Buffs were doing stuff too but Dan Morgan is who stood out in my mind. Totally disgraceful.
Dingus said:
posted on October 16, 2006 2:58 PM — 65.120.217.122 — link — abuse?
SCUM, there is "bad boy" attitude that's been a part of Miami football since way back in the day. Some call it swagger. And no one is complaining about swagger. But NOBODY has the track record that Miami has. That's just the facts, my man.
Other schools do their fair share of dirt and no one is disputing that. But the rep that Miami has was brought on by Miami. You've gotta be kidding if you think Miami faces a double-standard. If anything, they get away with way more than other schools.
posted on October 16, 2006 3:10 PM — link — abuse?
gatorhippy - Totally agree. The players shouldn't get off with just a slap on the wrist either. If this same thing had happened in the parking lot after the game, they would be facing jail time.
Bill McKnight said:
posted on October 16, 2006 3:28 PM — 24.144.94.76 — link — abuse?
S.C.U.M. says "...take away the Hurricanes and all Miami has left is Gloria Estefan..."
That's quite an indictment directed to quality of a degree obtained from the University of Miami. But more importantly it's indicative of the mindset that at Miami the football tail wags the university dog.
When a dog loses its balance due to an overly large tail the remedy is to dock (cut off) the tail. Maybe S.C.U.M. is right about how important Hurricane football has become. Maybe Hurricane football is ready for surgery.gatorhippy said:
posted on October 16, 2006 3:36 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
Buffs/Canes brawl was an absolute football game gone wild....
On one end was the incident Dingus mentioned with Morgan and other UMers stomping and beating on grounded Buffs while at midfield Cane DL Neil Patrick was getting his helmet ripped off by several Buffs and then beaten to the ground while Buff WR Mike Westbrook flat went air borne and Bruc Lee kung fu kicked an unfortunate Cane minding his own Biz in at the opposite end and the whole time smaller skirmishes going both ways involving players AND coaches from both sides...
To top it off you have it unfolding in the prime 3:30 ABC slot in front of a national TV audience with Keith Jackson giving the play by play...
Absolutely insane...
go_canes said:
posted on October 16, 2006 3:47 PM — 65.9.209.83 — link — abuse?
First off Kevin you need to get a life,man, or at least a job...you have way to much time on your hands if you can sit her spewing garbage about a football game. Furthermore, all the idiots and babies crying for more sanctions against the Canes are either FSU,GATOR or any other jealous, envious fans who got whupped one time or another by The Canes.
Let me make this clear, I do not condone the actions by the Canes in anyway nor am I a big fan of Cokers. But enough of the "throw all the Canes (past and present, for some of you whiners) in jail and close down the U. Anybody Listen to the big whiners Mike & Mike on espn, you would have thought their families were personally assaulted by the Canes thru the TV.. They are the worst kind of whiners because they have a show they can blast their negative opinions to any listener in range.
Well just get over it and Watch the Canes take the ACC and go to a BCS bowl ,,,boy that would burn some of you whiners' @ss now wouldn't it hahahhahahahDingus said:
posted on October 16, 2006 3:53 PM — 65.120.217.122 — link — abuse?
Hricane 23--I understand your point and partially agree with you. I can only speak for myself--I have not called for the dismantling of the Miami program. I think that punishes a university and a community for something far beyond their control. But something has to change, in my opinion.
I disagree with you when you say the only reason this story gets attention is b/c of the U on the helmet. Yeah, being Miami is part of it. But part of it is also this pattern of irresponsible and offensive behavior that comes from Miami football.
While baseball fights definitely happen, it's also my opinion that they're much less frequent than Miami's troubles. Without fail, EVERY SEASON Miami manages to get its football program into the news for something bad. Is that something to be proud of?
gatorhippy said:
posted on October 16, 2006 4:03 PM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
All the finger pointing by the Canes is brought up by USA Today Writer Mike Lopresti:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/lopresti/2006-10-15-lopresti-college-weekend_x.htmWhat Mr Lopresti is saying is that with the national stature and storied history that Miami has it is THEIR responsibility to be the bigger person and refrain from blatant showboat taunting after scoring a TD against a winless team and retaliation to pushing and shoving.
Or has the U fallen to the point that a third quarter touchdown to go up 14 and get out of a tight situation (against a winless team) is reason to engage in this behavior?
hricane23 said:
posted on October 16, 2006 4:32 PM — 170.135.241.45 — link — abuse?
Dingus,
I understand that the Canes have a reputation of being "rough". But I honestly believe that the national media piles on. You know of the bad because you hear of the bad. I've got examples, but work is getting in the way. My last comment regards the excuse some Cane fans are giving in that FIU started it all. I would be interested to see which bench cleared first. That should provide quite a bit of insight into how all of this got started. Please, someone go back and look at the tape and see who ran out first. Would you stay on the sideline and watch 80 guys running towards your 11 teammates? Or would you provide backup?
football fan said:
posted on October 16, 2006 5:33 PM — 70.247.30.2 — link — abuse?
I'm an avid college football fan but do not really have a "team." That being said, the UM brawl is one of the more ridiculous things to happen in sports in recent memory (but is certainly not in the same category as the Detroit-Indiana NBA fiasco a couple years ago.) There are surely some character issues in UM's athletic department and the University's rep. as Thug U is a stupid name, but yet one they have earned over the last couple decades. YES, some of those players should be suspended for the season if not outright kicked off the team permanently. There must be an overwhelmingly harsh message sent to every athlete at UM that the thuggery will not be tolerated at all, or it's just going to happen again. How do you best predict future behavior? By looking at past behavior! UM, BIG changes have to be made or you will only continue to be viewed as the place thugs go to play ball.
Donella said:
posted on October 16, 2006 5:51 PM — 74.241.23.162 — link — abuse?
Here's a different take. I attended the game played at the Orange Bowl a couple of years ago when Louisville visited Miami. Proudly displaying cardinal colors I was verbally attacked standing in line, had things thrown at me in the stands and had to ask to be escorted by a police officer out of the stadium to a cab, when the Cardinals took the lead during the game. There was no liquor consumed or obscenties shouted from these lips and we all know the outcome, the Cards lost...............but with dignity.
I've travelled extensively in the US and abroad. Most of the time alone. But I was never more ashamed to call myself a college football fan, until I witnessed the display of unsportsman like conduct by the players AND the fans in Miami that night. I have visited the city while on a business trip since. However, you will not find me spending a dime as a tourist in the town drawn to watch a successful college football program and what COULD have been the greatest fans ever known.
Tampa Hurricane said:
posted on October 16, 2006 6:03 PM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse?
As a Hurricane fan and Alumnus, I am appalled by the editing job that ESPN has done on this fight. The last video that I saw with those fools on ESPN edited the fight to show the extra point followed by shoving then a Hurricane player swinging his helmet at the FIU players. What happened in the ESPN clip to the picture of an FIU player tackling the UM holder than punching him in the helmet while another FIU player kicked him in the face mask. The FIU AD came out after the game and admitted that the fight was the fault of the FIU team and he wouldn't blame UM if they didn't want to play against his program again. I'm not saying that the Miami players didn't overreact, but if you (or your teammates) are being attacked, you need to fight back. I think Merriweather should be suspended for multiple games not just the one game for his stupid actions, but the program should not be punished. (I originally included that Reddick should also have his suspension extended, but I just read that it is now an indefinite suspension.) This like many other items that Miami is involved in became a witch hunt by people that hate the greatness of the Miami Hurricane program.
Tampa Hurricane said:
posted on October 16, 2006 6:15 PM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse?
For everyone that believes that Miami caused the fight you need to read the recap. "Bryant bowed to the crowd after catching a touchdown pass with 9 minutes left in the third quarter. Moments later, Chris Smith wrestled Miami holder Matt Perrelli to the ground and punched him, and McDuffie kicked Perrelli in the helmet." Call me crazy, but isn't there a big difference between a player bowing to the crowd and a player wrestling someone to the ground then punching him. The FIU AD has admitted the brawl was the fault of his program and Smith and McDuffie have been kicked off the football program. Can any of you idiots give me a reason that Hurricane players should have just allowed Perrelli to be punched and kicked during what was an innocent shoving match between linemen? If one of your teammates is being assulted on the field you should defend them! I'm not saying that the Hurricane players didn't overreact, but their reaction (not the overreaction) was justified.
JB said:
posted on October 16, 2006 6:21 PM — 216.103.178.34 — link — abuse?
People, this is football. Things get heated and fights happen. These schools are crosstown rivals and many of the players are born and raised in South Florida and have played against eachother for years. These things happen, get over it. UM is no better or no worse than the rest of the top programs in terms of player behavior. 18-23 year old kids do stupid things, show me one top 25 program that has not had an academic scandal or arrest within the past few years. It is part of college sports and it is hipocritical to say one school is better than another. All of the football factories are the same.
SCBUCK said:
posted on October 16, 2006 7:04 PM — 206.253.150.11 — link — abuse?
It's the same old story. Hoodlum U. They are scum, thugs, pick your adjective. True to form,they place blame and try to justify. Face it The Hurricanes, the university and it's fans are a disgrace. Every school has it's problems. You just make everything else look like a walk in the park. The whole program needs to get the death sentence. DIE HURRICANE DIE HAHAHAHAHAHA
K Hat said:
posted on October 16, 2006 7:45 PM — 4.244.211.8 — link — abuse?
University of Miami President Donna Shalala needs to resign her position in shame, if not, the Board of Trustees need to fire her.
After her removal, AD Paul Dee and Head Coach Larry Coker should be forced to resign or get fired.
Here's the University President, and she doesn't hold a press conference, she doesn't release a statement to the media, and she doesn't offer an apology to the fans, to the students or to the alumni concerning the brawl.There is nothing posted on the University of Miami website from Shalala. She's the highest authority figure at Miami, and she doesn't take time to address this issue. The only thing on the school website is a brief overview about the suspensions, but again, nothing from Shalala.
http://hurricanesports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/101606aaa.html
A school President needs to be front and center on critical matters. Players kicking other players in the head, swinging helmets as weapons, and throwing punches, all which are assault charges, and the University President is silent.
shady said:
posted on October 16, 2006 8:04 PM — 70.208.131.130 — link — abuse?
Hey Kevin do you bash South Carolina the same way you do Miami? Of course this fight was out of control. There have been fights just as bad in the past few years. Did you happen to see the USC/Clemson game two years ago? Yes, South Carolina and Clemson both had other incidents as well. So should we shut down their program? As a die hard Hurricane fan I strongly feel that all of the media will try to take their punches at the program since it is the "U" Get them while they are down now because we all know in a few short years we will be dominating the scene again. Bring back Butch!!!
Regan said:
posted on October 16, 2006 8:05 PM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
The brawl sucked.
Coker doesn't seem to be in control. I hate the fact that I've come to the conclusion that he has gotta go. I really like him as a person and a coach, but Coral Gables doesn't seem like the place for him.
Miami is no longer 'Thug U' and this crap is unacceptable. We must have a program and coach that won't even give the haters reason to go after us on those grounds.
K Hat said:
posted on October 16, 2006 8:28 PM — 4.244.211.8 — link — abuse?
Before the Miami faithful jumps on me for my suggestion about Shalala, FIU University President Modesto A. Maidique, is also silent. Hopefully he'll resign his position or the Board of Trustees will fire him.
How these University Presidents can not come out and voice their anger, disappointment or outrage about this brawl is beyond me.
Just like Miami, FIU has a story about the brawl on their website, but nothing from the University President.
http://www.fiusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=11700&ATCLID=652978
FIU did dismiss two players from their team, but they allowed those players to remain on scholarship.
The most ironic part for FIU is, on the main page of their website, they have a picture of woman that is visiting the University as a guest speaker, her speech is called "The path of non violence".
thechad said:
posted on October 16, 2006 8:32 PM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
first of all iam not big on miami or thug u after my cards gave them a country whoppin for there lack of respect . but what does fran curci get off on telling how to run the football program. this loyal miami jump ship to go to all places kentucky and they got the name curci crimales down at ole blue hell they won the sec but it did count because they where on probation they wanted to compete with the baseketball program with that. but curci should have no say how miami should be ran he jump ship and almost left the program for dead to go to kentucky to play second fiddle at kentucky and his record is not clean either .
thechad said:
posted on October 16, 2006 8:34 PM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
first of all iam not big on miami or thug u after my cards gave them a country whoppin for there lack of respect . but what does fran curci get off on telling how to run the football program. this loyal miami player and coachjump ship to go to all places kentucky and they got the name curci crimales down at ole blue. hell they won the sec but it did count because they where on probation, they wanted to compete with the baseketball program do see who could probation more times. but curci should have no say how the miami should be ran. he jump ship and almost left the program for dead to go to kentucky to play second fiddle at kentucky and his record is not clean either . yeah some loyal person he is
C-DOGG said:
posted on October 16, 2006 8:42 PM — 24.131.224.89 — link — abuse?
Here is what I find interesting about these so called "thugs" at Miami. These "thugs" had to get good ACT/SAT scores to qualify for a football scholarship and these "thugs" have to keep their grades up at a prestigious University like Miami in order to play football. Most of these "thugs" have been offered scholarships to 80% of the Division I-A programs in the nations.
C-DOGG said:
posted on October 16, 2006 9:01 PM — 24.131.224.89 — link — abuse?
IrishJT,
I hope that "Irish" doesn't stand for you being a Notre Dame fan. This past offseason, Miami tried to get a home and home series with Texas and NOTRE DAME. Texas declined and Notre Dame agreed only if they could play the Miami home game IN JACKSONVILLE! What are you guys afraid of? If Miami sucks then brong it on! Don't worry, we'll add extra security at the Orange Bowl for your fans....:)
goodolnuma5 said:
posted on October 16, 2006 9:20 PM — 24.208.149.244 — link — abuse?
post33.... youre an idiot. Da "U" hasn't 'skairt' anyone since 2002 (the beginning of the current demise). Swinging helmets like girls, stomping on downed guys like punk @sses! By the way, good luck recruitin'!!
S.C.U.M. said:
posted on October 16, 2006 10:08 PM — 65.9.141.54 — link — abuse?
Kevin D - Your posts exhibit the double standard. Clemson and SC fight. The programs voluntarily skip the bowl game (essentially a bonus check). No one called for their programs to be terminated, their AD's and coaches to be fired, or their players to be imprisoned.
Further, the past instances of 'Canes misbehavior were years ago (before anyone points out Louisville and LSU, let's please admit that those were fairly minor infractions - much like the Michigan St. flag plant at Notre Dame). People point out Miami-Colorado and Miami-Notre Dame. Those happened in 1993 and 1988, respectively. Three brawls in 18 seasons and the program's out-of-control?
posted on October 16, 2006 10:18 PM — link — abuse?
I'm going to stick with "agree to disagree", because I can't for the life of me imagine a scenario where your line of argument is going to change my mind.
I rather imagine that some UM fans, maybe even SCUM, feel like everyone else is piling on. Maybe they are to a degree, but no one but Miami is responsible for what Miami did. You can say they "reacted", OK. But no one forced them to. This "attention" - if you will - is all of their own doing.
If you take a moment of honest evaluation, I think you will have to concede that there are quite a few Miami fans who are badly disappointed in where the program is & what it has come to represent.
S.C.U.M. said:
posted on October 16, 2006 10:29 PM — 65.9.141.54 — link — abuse?
ThatGuy (#7) and Bill (#31):
I graduated from UM, and stand by my statement. Before the Hurricanes football team, Miami was simply Suntan U. Now what is it? Do you know anything about the school other than its football team?
posted on October 16, 2006 10:32 PM — link — abuse?
Y'all, don't pile on SCUM. He's a good guy and he's defending his school. He's been classy in his statements as best I've seen, so cut the guy some slack.
Dingusk said:
posted on October 16, 2006 10:45 PM — 70.108.216.68 — link — abuse?
SCUM--three brawls in 18 seasons (per your definition of "brawl"), yet you talk about 5 championships since '83. Can't have it both ways, dude. And you conveniently forget about all the other negative UM incidents ANYONE can look up on the Internet.
This conversation is tired. Hricane23, although we disagree, you presented your perspectives with class. I truly believe that the argument about who ran out first has absolutely no bearing ... it excuses NO ONE from what happened. You ask if it were me with 80 guys running towards my teammates what I would do, and I honestly can't tell you. Of course I have the advantage of hindsight. But I also have the advantage of knowing all of the capers and stunts Miami football has pulled since I was a young'un back in like 1984.
C'mon, Homers ... of course no one should pull the plug on Miami football ... that's ridiculous. But so is defending your program in this instance.
S.C.U.M. said:
posted on October 16, 2006 10:54 PM — 65.9.141.54 — link — abuse?
Kevin D - Thanks for the support. I'm pretty sure we are not going to agree on most 'Canes related discussions, but I do agree with you on the disappointment aspect. I think most 'Canes fans would like to see a change (more winning, less frustration).
LFL said:
posted on October 16, 2006 11:10 PM — 69.86.32.9 — link — abuse?
I think they should have just let the fight come to its natural end.
Someone dies then the the football programs at both schools could have been eliminated. End of story.
By the way...who has ever heard of FIU anyway? Is it a Fashion Institute of somthing or other?
And Miami...yuck! Have any of you actually been to Miami? Such a terrible place to live and the worst beaches in the world.
R G said:
posted on October 16, 2006 11:29 PM — 69.210.137.132 — link — abuse?
In all of the blog responses, on this site and others, I have yet to see anyone admit or realize that this was asked for. When you recruit thugs, you get thug actions. When you recruit animals, you get animal actions. When you recruit future criminals, you get criminal behavior.
This event is just another in the long line of miserable actions that results from pampered criminals being shelterd from the law until the NFL shows them they aren't wanted, then they return back to their lowly lives to continue killing and beating each other.
I hope the news and ESPN will finally stop giving this behavior the publicity it is getting. All they are doing is encouraging it even more.
S.C.U.M. said:
posted on October 17, 2006 7:26 AM — 65.9.141.54 — link — abuse?
Enough with the double standard talk. Can we at least say that people have an irrational hatred for the 'Canes? LFL wants players to die, and RG just said one of the most indefensible comments I've seen on this blog (thugs, animals, and criminals who will eventually kill and beat each other).
C-DOGG said:
posted on October 17, 2006 8:15 AM — 24.131.224.89 — link — abuse?
R G (post#63),
Are you employed by this blog to stir things up again? Come on.....the Thug statements are getting old and so is this subject. The suspensions are handed out and this story should be an old footnote by this Friday. Get over it and move on.
Bill McKnight said:
posted on October 17, 2006 8:21 AM — 24.144.94.76 — link — abuse?
S.C.U.M.--what I know about the University of Miami is that it has many fine educational programs, including its law degrees and medical degrees, as well as others. I bet that the 98% of the almuni are appalled at the continuing shame that its football program brings to an otherwise respectable institution. Nevertheless its 2% will continue to carry the mantle of disgrace that is known as Miami football until perhaps one of its players grabs a police officer's gun in the next brawl and goes on a shooting spree. Then, and only then, will the 2% finally concede that Miami football is a program that has run amok and must be reigned in.
IrishJT said:
posted on October 17, 2006 9:21 AM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
I wish everyone in Georgia and Alabama would get on the border of Florida and jump up and down until Florida cracked off and floated away into the Atlantic.
Trashy state, trashy universities. Garbage in, garbage out. Miami's antics should come as no surprise, especially since it is their 3rd brawl in less than a year (Peach Bowl, Louisville, FIU).
I think they should cancel Florida State and Florida's seasons too...just 'cause.
Go Irish! War Eagle!
Cane_Nation said:
posted on October 17, 2006 10:18 AM — 205.166.218.38 — link — abuse?
R G (post 63)
What team do you pull for? I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts they tried to recruit those same thugs. Go back and look at who your team recruited. Miami does not just sign whoever no other school wants, these kids (no matter what university) are not their to get an education, they're not recruited to be model students, they're recruited because they're big, strong, and fast. I live in Georgia, and I can tell you that a student i went to high school with GRADUATED from UGA. And I swear to you, he could barely read. Everyone stop fooling yourselves and acting like Miami is the only sschool that recruits thugs. These thugs are the most recruited players in the nation. When USC falls off their high horse all of the thug stories will come out. If Notre Dame is going to become a true national power again, they'll have their share of thugs too (although you'll never hear anything about the Irish). What happened was inexcusable, but let's not get to holier than thou. You know what they say about casting the first stone.
IrishJT said:
posted on October 17, 2006 10:41 AM — 65.83.54.4 — link — abuse?
Cane Nation,
The problem with your comments is that USC and Notre Dame DO NOT recruit thugs. First of all, their academic standards won't allow them to set foot on campus. The Miami thugs weren't recruited by the Irish or the Trojans because, despite their athletic talent, those athletes could not get past admissions. Secondly, your tacit concession that Miami does have thugs is something of which to be ashamed. You seem to be proud of your school's decision to award individuals with scholarships and free tuition so that they can then represent the University of Miami the way they did Saturday.YOU ARE WHAT IS WRONG WITH MIAMI. Keep burying your head in the sand...and take the U's program along with it.
Alabama, Georgia...start jumpin'!
FanoftheGame said:
posted on October 17, 2006 10:50 AM — 12.43.234.14 — link — abuse?
I agree with Kevin on this one. Who started the brawl is irrelevant to the situation that UM now findas themselves in. Each player that had a part in the fight has to be held accountable for their own actions regardless of who pushed who first. S.C.U.M is right about Miami being known for its great football teams. However, it has also been known for its Thug-like mentality on and off the field. With everything the UofM has been going through this season it was just a matter of time before an incident triggered the chain of events that ended in the bench clearing brawl against FIU. The Miami football prgram was a ticking time bomb that finally exploded last Saturday in a bad way. Unfortunately, when a University is unable to police its athletes and maintain control, then its time for the NCAA to step in and lay down the law. I believe the athletes involved have to be held accountable for their actions and face stiff penalties for their involvement. As well, both universities should be held responsible for their athletes and coaches and pay the price as well. Whatever the NCAA chooses to do they need to make an example out of both of theses programs. The NCAA needs to send a message out loud and clear to all universities that this type of behavior is not only forbidden, but comes with a steep penalty as well. A slap on the wrist just isn't going to cut it.
Michael said:
posted on October 17, 2006 12:14 PM — 209.194.80.90 — link — abuse?
I think the punishments that Miami has handed out are a mockery. I am not calling for the dismantling of the program, but how about some accountability. How about suspended the guy who was kicking guys in the head for more than a game? Sorry, but this slap on the wrist is not going to make a huge difference.
Hit those who are the biggest culprits where it hurts most--on both sides of this brawl.
And cancel this series.
And I agree with a USA Today columnist who said Miami should remove itself from post-season consideration as an internal, self-governed punishment. But it won't happen.
Miami will, instead, continue to perpetuate this negative image...
EER10 said:
posted on October 17, 2006 12:30 PM — 129.71.238.253 — link — abuse?
#30 IrishJT. I feel certain that anyone could knock you over with a feather. Ya, Ya you went to Law School at Notre Dame and your so special.
With the way you put people down I feel certain
you were one of those sweater Q's in the stands drinking a Zema in those cute bottles. F.U again.
go_canes said:
posted on October 17, 2006 2:37 PM — 74.225.148.47 — link — abuse?
OK CANE FANS DON'T FRET.. HURRICANES WILL WIN THE ACC CHAMPIONSHIP (with perfect behavior) and then the BCS will have to invite them to a bowl game...HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
after reading the quotes here I knew there were some PUSSY jealous envious biatches like IRISHJT. your school stopped playing the canes after we demoralized them 57-7 in the orange bowl. Notre dame has never been the same.
go_canes said:
posted on October 17, 2006 2:43 PM — 74.225.148.47 — link — abuse?
IT IS SO OBVIOUS YOU ENVIOUS JEALOUS whiners have this pent up hatred for the CANES, Your taking all the crap from president bush (and his corrupt cornies who got us in viet nam-like war) and the high gas prices and using the CANES as your scapegoat.....Well it won't work... the CANES will win the ACC and go to BCS bowl game inspite of your negative hatred.....It's pathetic the way the MEDIA has slanted this thing....Nobody even mentions the way the CANE's kick holder was pummeled and then kicked in the head before the whole bench finally came out...No all you see is One Hurricane player swing a helmet... you blind bunch of WHINERS
Texas Proud said:
posted on October 17, 2006 3:41 PM — 24.153.200.128 — link — abuse?
Unbelieveable...But sadly, no big suprise.
Miami is a 2nd class University, The "U" recruit thugs and gang members. They display to the nation for 10+ years what it means to be "U" (fights, drugs, weapons, etc...) and then one of their "own" shows his ultimate stupidity on TV.
Can't spell "T.H.U.G" without "U"
#1CollegeFootballFan said:
posted on October 17, 2006 4:27 PM — 66.145.249.33 — link — abuse?
Harsher penalties still need to be applied to all players involved.
Especially, Anthony Reddick (helmet wielding) and Brandon Meriweather (legs stomping), both should be kicked-off the team permanently!
No matter how Miami finishes in the regular season, they should be banned from competing in the ACC championship game and any bowl game.
#1CollegeFootballFan said:
posted on October 17, 2006 4:52 PM — 66.145.249.33 — link — abuse?
C-DOGG,
Concerning playing a home and home series with Miami.
Why would any school want to subject their football team, students, alumni and fans to the abuse on and off the field inside the Orange Bowl.
Then after the game, possible be subjected to more abuse outside of the stadium?
S.C.U.M. said:
posted on October 17, 2006 5:04 PM — 209.168.248.130 — link — abuse?
Texas Proud - You also can't spell T.H.U.G. without UT. But I'm surprised you can even spell T.H.U.G., given Texas' graduation rate.
http://www.fanblogs.com/texas/006616.php
I heard this joke one time that "you should never ask a man where he's from 'cuz if he's from Texas he'll tell you, and if he's not you don't want to rub it in." I think it should be revised - "You should never ask a man where he's from 'cuz he might tell you Texas and then talk about it until you want to kill yourself."
Mike wvu said:
posted on October 17, 2006 5:26 PM — 64.12.116.199 — link — abuse?
I love the sportsmanship commercials the ACC has been running in the Southeast the last month. It really seems to have helped the thugs of Miami and Va Tech in their quest for respect. Keep up the foolish acts. It makes the ACC look GREAT.
Go Big EastJarred said:
posted on October 17, 2006 7:12 PM — 12.178.138.65 — link — abuse?
Since no one knows who FIU is, besides me and a few others, no I'm not a fan.
So Cal USMC said:
posted on October 17, 2006 7:41 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Its Fugken Football... everybody, relax.
The feggs that were taking cheat-shots should be dealt with, but its not the end of the world when players get into a fight now and then.
Its lame how quickly everyone jumps on their High-Horse when it comes to something like this, "thug this and thug that", "no class, blah bla, blaugh" ... Everybody, relax, so a couple of teams threw-down.Anyway, Coker's gone by the end of the year.
IrishJT said:
posted on October 17, 2006 10:30 PM — 71.207.226.16 — link — abuse?
Attention All Miami Fans & Alum (especially CDOGG and go canes:
Notre Dame plays who it wants to play. If we want to be in a conference, we will be in a conference. The business of college football thrives when Notre Dame is in the picture. You cannot say that about another team. There is NOT a team in the country that turns down a home/home with the Irish. The Irish pick when, where and how much$! That's just because...and we don't need a reason. We don't want to play Miami because we don't want to have to arm ourselves to get off of the bus. That shithole you call the Orange Bowl is not exactly a place anyone wants to go. We only play in stadiums that have running water.
By the way, we don't play Florida International either, for much the same reason. Plus, we didn't want Miami bringing down our SOS.
Alabama, Georgia...get to hopping! Miami fans, say 'hi' to Castro for me.
M GO BLUE, you're right on it man. Kudos.
Please note that all comments are subject to the Fanblogs Comment Policy.
A. Nutfan said:
posted on October 16, 2006 10:38 AM — 24.95.70.157 — link — abuse?This was a sad thing to watch. I think one game suspensions are a joke and would not be suprised if criminal charges were brought against some of these players. They use video tape to arrest people in all other situations, why not this. Also, who was the clown [former Miami player] anouncing the game and saying thats what happens when you come to the O.B. you get beat up? He should never work the booth again. This is an black eye on college football and I am not surprised that Miami is a part of it.