January 15, 2007
Muslim students request prayer space at games
Muslim students at Northwestern are petitioning the university for a quiet, private place to pray during football games. Although the university's Muslim-cultural Students Association approached the athletic department with their request last fall, the issue has yet to be resolved.
Amid the cheering Northwestern football fans at Ryan Field, all Ashar Wasi wanted was a quiet place to pray. The only place he could find was a spot of less-than-clean floor in a public walkway."We had to pray in front of the concession stand, in front of all the people," the McCormick junior said.
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McSA President Amir Siddiqui estimates more than 20 Muslim students are in attendance at nearly every game.
"Oftentimes while students are at sporting events, the prayer time falls during the game," the Weinberg senior said. "If there was a space to pray, or even an opportunity for students to leave and re-enter, things would be better. Right now, it can be difficult."
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"Right now, we have to pray late afterwards or early and it's annoying," said Ramah Kudaimi, a Medill senior. "It's a lot more convenient to have a designated area than having to pray at different times."
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"All I want is a little bit of privacy, he said. "Carpets would be nice. It doesn't need to be soundproof, just clean."
I'm not familiar with the stance of other university's on this issue, but I have put out emails to several sports information directors to try to find out.
I would think this would be a moderately easy request to fulfill, right? I mean, with all the praying that already goes on at Northwestern games - you would think it would be a natural fit, right?
Comments:
J Boe said:
posted on January 15, 2007 1:06 PM — 209.192.119.136 — link — abuse?
I would love a clean carpeted room to watch the game also...OH YEAH, IT'S CALLED MY LIVING ROOM!!! What a joke. Since when has a football stadium had to double as a religious getaway? I know a lot of people watch football religiously, but this is taking it too far.
Tom Blogical said:
posted on January 15, 2007 1:13 PM — 24.95.77.153 — link — abuse?
I've got an idea. How about not going to a football stadium with 50,000+ people in it and expecting a quiet, private place to pray? For crying out loud, take a little personal responsibility and use some common sense for a change.
If someone wants a quiet, private place to pray, that's what churches, synagogues, and mosques, etc. are for.
College Pigskin Fan said:
posted on January 15, 2007 1:27 PM — 63.19.16.90 — link — abuse?
First, they want a space to pray at in the Minneapolis Airport. Now they want a space to pray at during Northwestern football games. What next, a space to pray at in a grocery store? Maybe a space to pray at at a Best Buy, or maybe a space to pray at in a movie theater. This is about more than football, this is about a group of people wanting our society to revolve around their religion. Wake up America.
James Chen said:
posted on January 15, 2007 1:43 PM — 67.101.98.226 — link — abuse?
How about us Buddhists? Can we have a Buddhist alter at the base of each goal post? And vegetarian meals at the concession stands, too!
FanoftheGame said:
posted on January 15, 2007 2:53 PM — 12.43.234.14 — link — abuse?
"Separation of Church and State" is misused by too many religious fanatics. Not to say the muslims are in any way "religious fanatics" to the extent that they should not be allowed to worship. However, I think the university should tell the muslims seeking a place for prayer to exercise "Separation of Head and Ass", and choose which is more important to them. Prayer or the game. You would think that if prayer is that important to these people, then they wouldn't be at the game anyway. Simply ridiculous. I guess Northwestern will soon have their own version similar to that of Notre Dame's. Only Northwesternn will call theirs, "Touchdown Allah".
SpurrierLover said:
posted on January 15, 2007 3:40 PM — 128.32.49.43 — link — abuse?
I think the solution is in the quote:
"even an opportunity for students to leave and re-enter"
I think that is fair. The muslim community (from what I can tell, so please correct me if I am wrong) has a specific way of praying and certain times of day are special. It is very important to them and I think it is fair to let them leave and re-enter so that they can come to the game. Of course ... you then have to ask the question who else should be able to leave and come back. That gets more complicated and strains the university. However, since they make a bundle of money off the game, I feel like it is not too much to ask.
Diggs the Mountie said:
posted on January 15, 2007 3:53 PM — 68.48.90.248 — link — abuse?
Screw 'em... Let them go somewhere vewy vewy quiet. I'm sick and tired everything revolving around religion. This is a "FOOTBALL GAME" not a place of peace and harmony. I mean it Screw them. Don't try to push your beliefs on anyone else. That's what they're trying to do......... just wait and see...........
Diggs the Mountie said:
posted on January 15, 2007 3:57 PM — 68.48.90.248 — link — abuse?
Or instead of waitng to see what happens.......Northwestern could be the front-runners in the " Don'try to push your beliefs on everyone else campaign"...... And say Screw You. Think about it....... Do Christians ask for quiet places to pray at football games? Catholics? Buddhists? Indians? I think not. Why should these people be any damn different?
posted on January 15, 2007 4:26 PM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue said:
I guess I'm in the minority. I didn't get the impression that these fans were DEMANDING the space, just that it would enhance their enjoyment because they wouldn't have to miss daily prayers.
I still don't think it would be that difficult to dedicate a "meditation" room. I mean, we've got unisex bathrooms and such for parents, so... what's one more room.
Trickster said:
posted on January 15, 2007 4:36 PM — 68.17.160.88 — link — abuse?
I think a lot of folks here, and please excuse me for saying this, are jumping on the chance to join a bash-Muslims parade, because Americans have never been real crazy about Muslims with their strict religious practices and cultural harshnesses, and especially so now when one of the political debates in our nation is whether we are engaged in a War on Terror or a War on Islamic Extremism.
But this really isn't a religious issue for Northwestern, it's a straight economic issue. If there are 20 Muslim students wanting to go to the game, there are probably 20 non-student Muslims wanting to go to the game, too. 20 students plus 20 other attendees is probably about $1000, not to mention 40 more Wildcat voices in the meager crowd.
With Northwestern struggling to put 30,000 bodies in its 47,000-seat stadium, not only are the 40 extra customers welcome, but it should be easy to find some concession, storage, office or whatever space in the stadium that's not fully utilized. It wouldn't be a "Muslim Prayer Room," but rather a quiet space that's open to everybody for all purposes, (for example you granny who gets a headache at the games and doesn't give a flying hoot for football). Win win for all parties involved.
Tom Blogical said:
posted on January 15, 2007 4:46 PM — 24.95.77.153 — link — abuse?
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for people praying. They can pray wherever they want, including at the game. (And it does happen...in more ways than one.) Nobody is saying they can't pray.
But that doesn't mean that the school has to feel obligated open up a private room in the stadium for prayers. Not to mention the fact that it would be designed for Muslims, so then you'd have to get a Christian room, a Jewish room, a Buddhist room, a Hindu room, a Jehovah's Witness room, a Christian Science room, a Wiccan room, a Kaballah room, an Atheist's room, a Satanists room...
It's a football stadium. These people saying that they're missing they're daily prayers because of a football game is BS, because a game (and other activities) is only 3-5 hours long anyway. Last time I checked, there are 24 hours in a day. I'm sure they can find time in the rest of the day to pray.
PopsMich said:
posted on January 15, 2007 5:10 PM — 71.77.24.80 — link — abuse?
Look, have we lost our collective minds?
It's really this simple:
Life is full of choices and we have all been provided with God's greatest gift: Free Will !We all know there are times you can't have it all, and this is one of them. You simply make choices given your God given gift of Free Will. Pray or attend/view Football - period. It is literally that simple.
Note how one's Free Will generally ends at the tip of another's nose - e.g., cigarette smoke, etc. This is no different.
Tom Blogical said:
posted on January 15, 2007 5:14 PM — 24.95.77.153 — link — abuse?
Trickster (#17):
As a general response to your comment, I could care less who requested the space, as I basically said in my previous post (#18). Your response was rather predictable. If someone doesn't agree with you, then they're anti-Muslim. BS.
In general, if someone feels praying is important enough, whatever their religious background, that they should do it in the middle of the game, then they should consider where they are. If it's too noisy, they should leave the game or consider not going at all. In addition, as I said before, there are 24 hours in a day. People should pray somewhere else at another time if the game is too distracting.
On top of that, if granny doesn't care for the game and is not feeling well, I'd say to hell with the game and take her home. Like I said before, common sense should be the prevailing factor.
TampaGator said:
posted on January 15, 2007 5:39 PM — 205.188.116.133 — link — abuse?
Reply to SpurrierLover:
Sure, let them leave and re-enter...so they can bring in the rest of the ingredients they need to complete their f@#Kn bombs!!!
Are you f#%&n kidding me????
Come the F$%&k on--how transparent can these muslims be? ...and how f$%&n obtuse can Northwestern be?
The question has been posed rhetorically numereous times above--why the hell do they need to pray during the game?
Here's an idea: pray before going to the game...pray after the freak'n game...don't go to the freak'n game...pray in your seat at the fraek'n game....
....But I call BULLS#%T when in comes to special accomodations at the game--ESPECIALLY IF IT INVOLVES LEAVING AND RE-ENTERING!!!
My 2 cents...
FanoftheGame said:
posted on January 15, 2007 6:05 PM — 12.43.234.14 — link — abuse?
If this isn't just about the Muslims having their own room, which is a ridiculous request, then it must be about affording everyone (30 to 80 thousand fans)an oppurtunity to worship their divine idol in a special place in the stadium. Economically speaking, it would be at a huge cost to the university to make the necessary accomodations to provide every single fan with adequate space to pray, cry or whatever else we all have a right to do. Getting an extra 40 muslims into the stadium is not going to support the cost of making a prayer room. Who decides when each different religion gets to use the room during the game and for how long? If the game lasts only 4 hours, then they are going to have to limit each religion to about 2 minutes in order to accomodate all the different religions and show no bias. I have nothing against muslims, but this would be a ridiculous request from any religion.
Jon said:
posted on January 15, 2007 6:23 PM — 69.246.161.119 — link — abuse?
PopsMich is right.
There is absolutely no reason this door should be opened. Slippery slope. And not just with religious people..think of the medical implications...
They don't allow "leaving and re-entering" because it creates more work and it is inefficient.
If you don't like the conditions, exercise capitalism. Don't go. They will either change their policies to please you or find replacement customers...
Trickster said:
posted on January 15, 2007 6:46 PM — 68.17.160.88 — link — abuse?
If someone doesn't agree with you, then they're anti-Muslim.
People of great wisdom can disagree with me on a great many subjects, and it's possible that occasionally they might even be right and I might even be wrong. No, I had different reasons for thinking that some, not all, but some of the posters were just snapping at a chance for some cheap Muslim-bashing.
To start with, I'm not going to pretend that Muslim-bashing isn't a popular private sport in Middle America when I have witnessed it, and at times participated in it, frequently. Americans are generally way too polite to bash Muslims to their faces and too civilized to discriminate against Muslims in public accomodations. But in private, people poke fun at outside groups that do even the slightest little bit to earn it, groups like fans of the other team, members of the other political party, meter maids, people who work for the government in general, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., etc. In my experience Muslims often rank high on that hit parade.
Of course, that's just background and no reason to assume that anyone in particular in this thread has any such feeling. But what made me think it about this thread was that not a single person actually started their analysis by asking whether doing this would be smart or dumb for Northwestern. Everybody went straight for the rights of Muslims to have special religious accomodations.
What if, instead of Muslims asking for a prayer room, it was a local neighborhood booster club asking for a little 10' by 10' room to eat snacks in, in return for which they promised to bring 40 customers to the game? Wouldn't Northwestern think of that question as a strictly economic decision, instead of proceeding immediately to the philosophical and Constitutional question of whether neighborhood booster groups have a right to have a snack room in a stadium? But apparently it didn't even occur to anybody to look at it this way.
Different story, by the way, down the road at Ann Arbor. Those folks don't need the customers and probably use every last inch of in-stadium space for something important. There the economics would be totally different and the University would not wish to provide the space. In neither circumstance should the school HAVE TO provide the space, but in one it may make financial sense for them to do so.
Denis said:
posted on January 15, 2007 6:55 PM — 69.228.211.66 — link — abuse?
I'm amazed that , in the land of free enterprise, someone hasn't opened a concession stand for prayer. I admire the fact that these students are faithful to God, but I must admit I find the idea a bit odd under the circumstances. I have missed a number of games becasue I had a church service, and I never thought to ask accomodation from the stadium.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on January 15, 2007 8:04 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
I say, "Send em' all home to Allah - Let him sort them out". Besides, they certainly aren't going to be bringin' their 72 virgins with em' to any football games - so what good are they? I'd rather watch the game with a pimp any ol' day rather than one of these bogart diaper-heads. They can all go back to wherever they came from. If they were born here and converted - then maybe they ought to stay off the streets anyway. Their day is gonna come eventually. The day that they think they're gonna convert us to their crap - is the day that they have made a serious mistake. BTW, they already have and continue to do so. There is only one cure for stupid that I know of.
Tommie T
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on January 15, 2007 8:15 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Only one thing that I hate worse than Notre Dame - and that is Terrorists. We don't let Santanists practice in public - and neither should any of these morons. Go back to the middle east where your beloved brethren reside! Someday we're gonna ship you back anyway.
Tommie T
Trickster said:
posted on January 15, 2007 8:18 PM — 68.17.160.88 — link — abuse?
Hmmm. I'm new to this site, and I must say I'm disappointed that Tommie Trojan's comments here made it past a moderator. I had really been enjoying the site up to this point, but suddenly I have some pretty serious questions.
T-Mac said:
posted on January 15, 2007 8:35 PM — 66.78.139.117 — link — abuse?
Trickster, Post 30. Bro, this is complete and total bullsh*t. Are us God-fearing Christians requesting they install Church pews in the freakin end zone. This is stupid. Another example of how jacked-up our society has become. We have to cater to everybody. Screw that. Man the fugk up and handle any religious issues in the proper place as Tom Blog stated before. I'm a black man, successful, and a Christian. I've always prayed before, during, and after games. IN MY OWN WAY!
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on January 15, 2007 8:41 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Trickster:
Did I hurt your feelings? You don't think that real Muslims from the middle east are watchin' American football do you? That's sacreligious to them. No, they need a room to continue to construct IED's while making plans for bringin' down the whole stadium - and the 90,000 or so that may be in it. Does that hurt your feelings? I'm standin' in a bank the other day with one of these clowns in full "Arab Dress". I wanted to rip the clothing right off the clown to see what he had strapped to himself. Luckily, the whole bank didn't get blown apart while we were in there. I'm sorry if you don't agree with me - but I can't find a single use for any of these people being in our country. To me, during a time of war, they are the enemy! Period! End of story. Sorry, if that hurts your feelings. I'd rather hurt your feeling than ever let one of these morons harm one of your children or parents. And, trust me on this, If I had it my way there would be no way that that would ever even be a possibly. You know why? Because none of them would be here and they all would have been deported by now. Too bad!
Tommie T
Diggs the Mountie said:
posted on January 15, 2007 8:44 PM — 68.48.90.248 — link — abuse?
Trickster,
What you all of the sudden don't like freedom of speech? It's his opinion, and he's entitled to it.If Tommie Trojan said: Only one thing that I hate worse than Notre Dame - and that is "Chrisitians". We don't let Santanists practice in public - and neither should any of these morons. Go back to Europe where your beloved brethren reside! Someday we're gonna ship you back anyway.
I myself wouldn't take offense, I'd read it and move on. That's just me though.......
Trickster said:
posted on January 15, 2007 8:55 PM — 68.17.160.88 — link — abuse?
Tommie T, thanks for asking if my feelings were hurt. That was sweet of you. Rest assured that you are incapable of hurting my feelings.
If you seriously have thoughts of violent acts running through your head simply because you're standing next to someone in a bank who is different from you, you might consider finding somebody to talk about your feelings with. If it's not somebody in your family, find a minister or a counselor or an analyst, somebody who can give you the help you need. Uncontrollable fear like that can take your heart and your manhood away from you.
I have to say, I think there's always going to be a tension in your life so long as you live in America, because it seems pretty clear that you would be happiest with a more authoritarian form of government than the one we have here. You don't have to spend more than a few minutes, really, studying American history to know that the kind of solutions you are proposing will never be adopted in this country. We're all about live and let live here, not about Final Solutions.
Trickster said:
posted on January 15, 2007 9:04 PM — 68.17.160.88 — link — abuse?
Diggs,
This is not a free speech area. It's a moderated forum. I guess there are various reasons for moderating forums, but I thought the main one was typically to keep the most extreme and offensive speech out so that normal people can have normal conversations about normal stuff.
Calling Muslims things like "diaperheads" is nothing but hate speech. It serves absolutely zero positive function, and frankly if we as a nation are battling a threat of extremist Islamic terrorism, it's dog-rear-end stupid to wave your fist in the face of random Muslims with public name-calling. If you know anything about terrorists, you know that people usually become terrorists not by genetics but because they got really angry about something. Any war against terrorism has to be at least partially political and PR-based. Obviously I'm wrong, but I had thought that was pretty obvious by now.
When you see a hornet's nest, there are a lot of different courses of action you might pursue, from calling Orkin to just walking around it to trying to figure out some clever plan of taking it our from a distance. Out of all those possible courses of action, walking up to the hornet's nest and giving it a good whack with a baseball bat is not one of the smart ones.
posted on January 15, 2007 9:17 PM — link — abuse?
On MLK day, let's celebrate our freedoms, celebrate our diversity, and celebrate football. Comments off.
Please note that all comments are subject to the Fanblogs Comment Policy.
PreProSports.com said:
posted on January 15, 2007 12:59 PM — 66.73.199.146 — link — abuse?I would think this would be a moderately easy request to fulfill, right? I mean, with all the praying that already goes on at Northwestern games - you would think it would be a natural fit, right?
Bu-dum!