September 7, 2007
Notre Dame fans believe Irish kool-aid starting to sour
The honeymoon is over for Notre Dame head coach Charlie Weis, so sayeth Dick Weiss of New York's Daily News.
This is Weis' third year on campus. He came there from the New England Patriots with a reputation for being an offensive genius and did a masterful job developing Brady Quinn. Weis has coached the Irish to two straight BCS bowls, but he still doesn't have a signature win over a Top 10 team and has lost three straight games dating to last season - to USC, LSU and unranked Georgia Tech - by 20 or more points.
I don't want to pile on, but I do have to take issue with the manner in which Weis has set expectations for this season.
All summer, the coach said that this was NOT a rebuilding year for the Irish.
"May God strike me dead if I use that word," Weis said during Media Day activities in South Bend, Ind. "I never use that word. I have nine fifth-year seniors that came back for another year. Don't you think I owe it to them to try to win this year?"
Meanwhile, 31 freshmen & sophomores played against Georgia Tech, a number the Blue-Gray Sky calls the "highest number of freshman/sophomore participation since freshmen became eligible in 1971."
Attn Coach Weis: When you're playing 31 freshmen/sophomores... you're rebuilding.
Comments:
sickofirish said:
posted on September 7, 2007 1:51 PM — 66.62.121.9 — link — abuse?
Don't worry, I'm sure they will get voted into the top 8 in the rankings so they will again be in a bcs bowl. "Oh, the pagentry of the 6-6 Irish versus the 11-1 Louisville Cardinals in the Who Gives a Damn BCS Bowl". Brendt Musberger would be perfect for that gig. I wish Appy State played the "God's Gift to Football"-ers this weekend.
GatorMatt said:
posted on September 7, 2007 1:55 PM — 128.227.79.6 — link — abuse?
For some strange reason, I feel like this will finally be the year that Notre Dame finally has their grip released off of the media's balls. I think all the sportswriters will see that as usual, Notre Dame is hyped up for way more than they are worth, and they are just a mediocre football team, much like last year. But then again, I'm probably wrong. I wonder what IrishJT's thoughts are about this?
gatorstud said:
posted on September 7, 2007 2:04 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
i'm still wondering why we havn't heard anything on that irish player arrested for soliciting prostitution....c'mon kev...i thought you would of wore this one out...here is the link...
but, back to topic.....being near south bend..believe me when i say tht the grumblings have started.....if it weren't for michigans blunder this weekend, charlie w. face would of been plastered all over espn and all other sports magazines.....there are some golden domers (not all) that are wondering if they put too much stock in charlie......
but i will give charlie more of a break than notre dame gave to willingham......let's see what he does for the rest of the year...
but it hasn't started good at all.....3pts....at home......thank god for michigan..or should i say ........appl. state...go gators......and hokies
VTBobb said:
posted on September 7, 2007 2:07 PM — 74.1.112.66 — link — abuse?
GatorMatt, come on, you know IrishJT is busy compiling a long list of injustices that the current poll system has heaped upon the Mighty Fighting Irish.
In fact, I bet he can prove that ND is still the subject of "West Coast Media Bias" in an especially underhanded way. I'm sure that the media actually UNDERATES every ND opponent so that both their wins AND losses look worse than they actually are. Damn Media!
FanoftheGame said:
posted on September 7, 2007 3:00 PM — 198.211.223.194 — link — abuse?
Okay, I can't believe I'm about to say this (especially about the Irish), but I don't see Notre ame's (still no "D" in South Bend) future as being as bad as it is now. Don't get me wrong, it's probably going to get worse before it gets better- but it will get better. Those of you,who know me,are well aware of the fact that I care nothing about the Irish. I look forward to seeing an over-hyped, overrated Irish team get obliterated by a true national powerhouse whenever the opportunity presents itself.
I for one don't really agree with the term "rebuilding year". Anyone and everyone who loves college football knows that it is impossible to rebuild a team in just one season without settling for mediocrity. Teams like USC and Florida are 2 examples of teams that may have "Reloading Years". There is just that much talent in the Freshman and Sophomore classes to be able to do that. A true rebuilding process is going to take at least 2-3 years, before the changes to your team start to show substantial dividends.
In the case of the Irish I don't necessarily see them rebuilding after last season. I mean what are they really rebuilding from? They were overrated last year, like the year before and apparently are again this year. I think the reuilding process began when Charlie got to South Bend and they have never really got out of the rebuilding process. They recruit well and have talent so it is just a matter of time before the Irish field a great team. Like it or not, the Irish haven't really fielded a great team in a long long time.
By the time everyone admits to overrating the Irish, Charlie will finally have them back on the map as a contender.gatorstud said:
posted on September 7, 2007 3:22 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
well said, fan of the game...but one question i would like to ask charlie w. is why wouldn't you recruit a good qb two years ago when he got there....he knew quinn was going to leave sooner or later.....why wouldn't he get his replacement in place.....like urban had w/ leak and tebow.....why wait till brady is gone and then try to work out your qb problem.....
i hope irishjt will log on and answer this one....(he knows more about the irish than i do)....cause i just don't get it...maybe i'm missin something....i'm not doggin....just asking....
go gators....and hokies
CMA419 said:
posted on September 7, 2007 5:50 PM — 64.93.227.8 — link — abuse?
Gatorstud-
Weis had Zach Frazier as a pretty solid backup. Evan Sharpley looked better in spring practice and Frazier decided to transfer to Connecticut. Plus, if you knew that you were getting the number one quarterback recruit to commit in his junior year, you might feel pretty confident. And even if Clausen isnt the real deal, he has Dayne Crist coming in next year. So that kind of answers that.
CMA419 said:
posted on September 7, 2007 5:50 PM — 64.93.227.8 — link — abuse?
Gatorstud-
Weis had Zach Frazier as a pretty solid backup. Evan Sharpley looked better in spring practice and Frazier decided to transfer to Connecticut. Plus, if you knew that you were getting the number one quarterback recruit to commit in his junior year, you might feel pretty confident. And even if Clausen isnt the real deal, he has Dayne Crist coming in next year. So that kind of answers that.
CMA419 said:
posted on September 7, 2007 5:51 PM — 64.93.227.8 — link — abuse?
Gatorstud-
Weis had Zach Frazier as a pretty solid backup. Evan Sharpley looked better in spring practice and Frazier decided to transfer to Connecticut. Plus, if you knew that you were getting the number one quarterback recruit to commit in his junior year, you might feel pretty confident. And even if Clausen isnt the real deal, he has Dayne Crist coming in next year. So that kind of answers that.
badgerballer said:
posted on September 7, 2007 10:09 PM — 4.228.219.12 — link — abuse?
Any & everybody wondering if this (or any future) bad season forces ND into a conference - stop wondering. It ain't gonna happen in our life times, and probably that of our children. Thems just the facts.Seems to me like Cheeseburger made it to consecutive 9+ win seasons and BCS bowl games with Ty Willingham's players. And it taking smackdowns from the like of Georgia Tech with his own. Is anyone in the media going to blow the "you fired the right guy, way to fast" whistle any time soon?
c-dogg said:
posted on September 7, 2007 11:09 PM — 76.188.187.94 — link — abuse?
If Notre Dame fans would just LOWER their expectations every year, they would lear to accept the fact that they suck. Why would any 4 or 5- star recruit want to sign with them?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the BIG EAST will win 2 national titles before Notre Dame wins their next one. That's saying a lot since Miami left.
Go Blue said:
posted on September 8, 2007 3:59 AM — 76.88.112.248 — link — abuse?
you guys are tough. Remember, he is playing with Ty Willingham's players. Who ever said he recruited well? Aside from Brady (and who wouldn't want to QB for ND?), who did Ty recruit that is extraordinary. You have to give Cheeseburger's recruits time to show their true colors. ND may not have done that for Ty, but Ty was never an awesome employee of the New England Patriots. 2 years from now ND will be the new USC/Miami/Florida St/OSU of college football. Their fans need to get a little more patience, UM fans certainly have. BTW UM will beat Oregon tommorow, then loose another 5 games on their way to a good ol' fashion Lloyd Carr style season.
At least Michigan has academics and hockey to fall back on. Go Blue!
TrojanHorse said:
posted on September 8, 2007 7:38 AM — 75.75.86.11 — link — abuse?
I'm not sure the future is that blue, 2007, well yeah.. definitely blue.. 2008.. which is what all the domers are pointing too.. well I don't get it.. I don't see them better than .500 either although schedule plays a big roll in that too.. but in 09 forward in theory they should be good..
but yes.. rebuilding is the word.. this is a 3 year process for them..
the cheeseburger's big test will be keeping the fans happy in 08... although some how some way the Irish will still blame Ty
Zac said:
posted on September 8, 2007 9:55 AM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
#1 I have been convinced that ND will never join a conference. They are their own Mecca around which the rest of the CF world must play.
#2 ND may have been over-rated last year, the year before, this year; they may be the most over-rated team of all time. They have still fielded some of the greatest teams in college football & they've won NC's.
#3 They fielded 31 Freshman & Sophomores against GA Tech. In 2 years they'll be fielding 31 Jr's & Sr's against everyone they play. The following year, the Jr's will be Sr's and the previous year's Sophomores will be Jr's, and so-on. Now for my point: If in 2009 & 2010 ND doesn't field NC contending teams, Weiss will be in deep duky!!!
Timugen said:
posted on September 8, 2007 11:51 AM — 67.177.184.73 — link — abuse?
You can't have it both ways. You can't say Charlie fielded great teams with Ty's players and at the same time say those teams were overrated, average teams.
As far as "blaming it on Ty," take a look at his last recruiting (golfing) class. That is WHY there were 31 FR/SO in the GT game. There is NO senior class. Ty's recruiting (golfing) efforts are what got him canned, not just his record. When you have consecutive shyte seasons and have no recruits coming in to offer any hope for the future you should not be surprised to be shown the door.
And as for ND being overrated this year? By whom? Seriously. The mantra gets really old, and you should probably restrain yourself from using it in a year when everyone on the friggin planet is saying they'll be lucky to go .500. But yeah, they're ND, so they're overrated.
TrojanHorse said:
posted on September 8, 2007 10:46 PM — 75.75.86.11 — link — abuse?
the cheeseburger genius did manage to rush for ONE yard tonight for the entire game
the emu managed to throw a half dozen passes five or more yards beyond the line of scrimmage and it seems half of those should have been picked since they fell right into Lion defenders hands but they couldn't hold on
Gatorpilot said:
posted on September 9, 2007 2:31 AM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
I don't even enjoy piling onto them anymore. They're just not a good team, they don't field a competitive product, and it's just no fun at all watching them. Bleah.
Notre Dame Hater said:
posted on September 9, 2007 5:48 AM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
Looks like Charlie Cheesburger better make some adjustments to his game plan. He should also teach his players how not to play dirty, like they did against Penn Sate. 0-11, here Notre Dame comes. Wouldn't that be great!!! Of course, ND will still get a BCS bowls bid, because they are Notre Dame. And Jimmy Clausen will still be the leading Heisman candidate, because he is from Notre Dame. How did you like ESPN comparing him to Tiger Woods and Lebron James during the PSU-ND Game? Just one of the many reasons why I hate Notre Dame.
TrojanHorse said:
posted on September 9, 2007 8:20 AM — 75.75.86.11 — link — abuse?
My favorite was when ESPN was justifying the ND announcement from the CFB HOF and arriving in the limo... and how he is not arrogant or anything.. and making it sound like hey I don't know why people make a big deal of it.. and also on why do people rip poor JimME on IBB's LOL..
uhmmm duhhhh ESPN don't you think the EMU created this mess..
Zac said:
posted on September 9, 2007 10:16 AM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
CCT'84, I think an Emu is an Australian version of an Ostrich. It's a rather large walking bird. (Peck the hell out a ya...)
ND/PA St wasn't the blow-out everyone thought it was gonna be. The Irish hung in there for a long time; the Lions simply out-lasted them. It makes you wonder why ND didn't display the same effort last week at home in front of their fans.
Gerald said:
posted on September 9, 2007 5:00 PM — 65.12.162.103 — link — abuse?
Timugen:
People who bash Willingham for ND's last recruiting class leave out one minor detail: HE WAS FIRED IN NOVEMBER! So basically, ND was left without a head coach to recruit from November until AFTER national signing day when Weis came over from the Patriots, who played in the Super Bowl that year. Further, Willingham's being fired was a foregone conclusion long before it happened ... it was well known that the boosters, alums, etc. were acting against the administration (who wanted to give Ty at least one more season) to start putting together a package for and sending out feelers to Urban Meyer while the season was still going on. That was why Meyer was offered everything but the keys to the girls' shower room (then again they might have offered him that too) before Willingham even had time to clean out his office. What you are also forgetting: Ty was working on a pretty good recruiting class before he was let go. That is right, he continued to recruit even as people were working behind the scenes to get him fired. But after he was fired, naturally a lot of kids left to go elsewhere. Also, a lot of underclassmen that Ty recruited in the previous class decided that Weis wasn't their cup of tea and transferred, and some of them are getting playing time elsewhere. And by the way ... while Weis has been bringing in better recruiting classes, people do not like to admit that a great deal of it is because when Weis was brought in Notre Dame relaxed their admissions requirements! They also started allowing football players to enroll in the spring. So a lot of the members of the "higher rated" classes that Weis has brought in Willingham would not have even been allowed to recruit. This includes Jimmy Clausen, who never would have gone to Notre Dame had he not been able to enroll early so that he could start as a freshman (the guy, who is already 20, obviously wants to be one of those "three years and off to the NFL" types). ND laid their bed when they ran Willingham off after only three years, so now they are going to have to lie in it for a year or two.
TrojanHorse said:
posted on September 9, 2007 7:34 PM — 75.75.86.11 — link — abuse?
Rankings are in:
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/polls;_ylt=AkV6bVCwU7VszKEiZucdOVEcvrYF
LSU gaining significant ground in AP and USA polls
Seminole Jack said:
posted on September 9, 2007 9:16 PM — 71.226.133.103 — link — abuse?
Notre Dame has consistently been overrated because their schedule is filled with creampuffs. And if any school has no excuse for a weak schedule it is ND since they choose every game they play. They have been packing their schedule the last couple of years with the service acadamies and the Duke's of the world and then they stand up at the end of the season and yell "Look at our Record". But when they get into a BCS bowl they get blown out of the stadium.
I remember the Fiesta Bowl a couple of years ago when their "All-American" safety got burned by no less than 20 yards by Ted Ginn Jr. They can not handle real competition so they are trying to do it with smoke and mirrors.
Charlie Wies will probably have a worse record than Tyrone Willingham following his third year. Who thinks that they will send Wies packing after three years?
Seminole Jack said:
posted on September 9, 2007 9:17 PM — 71.226.133.103 — link — abuse?
Notre Dame has consistently been overrated because their schedule is filled with creampuffs. And if any school has no excuse for a weak schedule it is ND since they choose every game they play. They have been packing their schedule the last couple of years with the service acadamies and the Duke's of the world and then they stand up at the end of the season and yell "Look at our Record". But when they get into a BCS bowl they get blown out of the stadium.
I remember the Fiesta Bowl a couple of years ago when their "All-American" safety got burned by no less than 20 yards by Ted Ginn Jr. They can not handle real competition so they are trying to do it with smoke and mirrors.
Charlie Wies will probably have a worse record than Tyrone Willingham following his third year. Who thinks that they will send Wies packing after three years?
U. of S. C. 1978 said:
posted on September 9, 2007 10:29 PM — 97.82.188.250 — link — abuse?
As I recall it was 1977, maybe 76. Notre Dame was in it's heyday. That team was large, big fellows. A full head taller than the Gamecocks. This was in Columbia and ND rolled.
Times change and that unaligned status means less every year. This is an invitation, please NOTRE DAME, will you be be our cream puff opening opponent next year?IrishJT said:
posted on September 10, 2007 9:19 AM — 71.207.207.83 — link — abuse?
Folks,
The guy beats Boise State and now everyone thinks he's a great coach??? Ty Willingham was terrible. He was a terrible coach at Notre Dame and a terrible fit at Notre Dame. He was as disorganized as any coach ever, had no 2-minute drill and suffered the worst losses in Irish history. Charlie is still playing with Willingham's players.Now, those sophomores and freshman that Charlie has playing. They are going to grow up and become Juniors and Seniors in a year or two. When that happens, MEN will be at the helm and the Irish will return to glory. Our schedule even lightens up those years too.
Speaking of schedules, Notre Dame currently has 5 teams on its schedule ranked in the Top 25. The "cream puff" statements are laughable, what with the DII opponents some schools are scheduling (i.e. Alabama vs Western Carolina). Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Navy, Air Force, Duke & Stanford are not ranked, but they are REAL D-I opponents. Purdue is no Louisiana Tech (Hawaii fans). Navy is no Idaho (USC fans).
So let's use the term "cream puffs" wisely and attribute it appropriately...not towards the Irish. We have one of the toughest schedules year in and year out.
So we're 0-2. OK. Yes, I'm disappointed. I'm an alum and a fan. But guess what? You'll still never be Notre Dame!!!!!!!!
TampaGator said:
posted on September 10, 2007 11:05 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
IrishJT:
I like ND, but Weis lost me last week with that "...May God strike me dead if I use that word [rebuilding]..." comment (see above). Actually, not just the comment, but the attitude it betrays--as being consistent with the attitude he's had since he arrived.
Seriously--what's it going to take to knock him off his pedastal? How many beat downs before he acknowledges that ND needs some serious work?
The head in the ground routine--while simultaneously showing his ass--doesn't do anyone any good--except his opponents (and ND haters in general).Good luck to you and the Irish; keep wearing those colors proudly--but I sincerely hope y'all either change coaches, Weis learns his place.
GO GATORS!!
P.S.--IMHO, ND's downfall was "the Gug."
John Larkins said:
posted on September 10, 2007 3:11 PM — 64.19.174.2 — link — abuse?
Notre Dame is in a re-buliding year, they couldn't beat a pee wee footbal team the way they have blocked the last two weeks. Why all the negativity from the bloggers. They appear to be very young immatrue idiots who forget the Notre Dame put College football on the map long before any the more recent football powers even knew what footabll was, just keep that in mind!!! JL
Gerald said:
posted on September 10, 2007 3:18 PM — 216.113.128.239 — link — abuse?
IrishJT: I note that you did not respond to my post. Willingham had only two legitimate recruiting classes at ND. You cannot count 2002 because it was finishing off Davie's class (and those guys are gone anyway so they are irrelevant to this team) and you cannot count 2005 because he was officially fired in November and unofficially out the door long before them. So that leaves what? 2003 and 2004. 2003 was a great year class by EVERYONE'S estimation. The biggest problem was that Willingham had to play so many guys as true freshmen instead of redshirting them because the team that he inherited from Davie was so bad. And 2004? I grant you that was a down year, but even it included several very good players. So, you are saying that all of ND's current problems are because of 2004?
disinterested said:
posted on September 10, 2007 4:04 PM — 165.97.125.84 — link — abuse?
almost all of you are wrong about weis and the current state of nd football. to say that willingham left behind a wealth of talent at nd is ignorant. other than quinn, samardzija, and to a lesser extent walker, willingham didn't really leave behind any top-flight players, especially on the defensive side of the ball. regardless, weis did far better with the 2005 and 2006 teams than willingham would have done.
weis is now saddled with the historically bad recruiting classes willingham put together in 2004 and 2005. (yes, gerald, 2005 is willingham's recruiting class. even though he was fired in november, willingham had already done much of the recruiting for the next season and weis was unable to do any recruiting because he was busy helping the patriots win another super bowl.) weis is having to play a bunch of freshmen and sophomores this season because almost all of the younger players willingham left at nd simply don't have top-tier talent.
in 2006, weis put together a top 10 recruiting class, focused mainly on offensive players. the class weis has recruited this year, which is heavy with defensive players, is currently ranked no. 1 by rivals.com. nd will be better by the end of the season, and will be better next year and years to come. to say that weis has failed as a head coach ignores the facts.
Lennie Collins said:
posted on September 10, 2007 4:15 PM — 68.93.134.47 — link — abuse?
Disinterested...Is Ty Willingham responsible for the coaching and play calling? I don't know much in regards to the recruiting but Norte Dame is BELOW terrible! It sounds like you are blaming TY Willingham for the last 2 years of this joke of a program right now!
distinterested said:
posted on September 10, 2007 4:33 PM — 165.97.125.84 — link — abuse?
lennie:
your question and comments make no sense and are hyperbolic. in 2005 and 2006, nd lost a grand total of 4 regular season games (usc (twice), michigan, and michigan state) and 2 bcs bowl games (ohio state and lsu). except for michigan state, all of those teams were replete with nfl-caliber talent. nd hasn't had that type of talent since the early 1990s when holtz was there.
nd hasn't lost any games in the past 2 seasons or this season because of coaching or play calling; it lost those games because of a huge talent gap. weis is only responsible for bringing in the current freshman class. it's impossible to blame the current talent level at nd on anyone but willingham.
gatorstud said:
posted on September 10, 2007 4:34 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
hey disinterested.....ok let me see if i have this straight....you say "don't get on charlies case because he is still working w/ ty's recruits, and everyone should give charlie a chance".....hhhmmm so why didn't ty get a fair shake then...wasn't he working w/ davies recruits....i mean...by your analysis...ty should of had at least two more years then to do something, at least he should of been given a chance to coach with his own recruits.....
but, notre dame didn't want to wait.....they wanted urban meyer but he went to florida so they fired ty and hired charlie.....the biggest mistake charlie has made is not gettin his back-up q-b playing time last year.....can someone name me one game last year that the back-up qb for notre dame played.....at all...one down??????
just wondering????
go gators....and hokies
disinterested said:
posted on September 10, 2007 4:47 PM — 165.97.125.84 — link — abuse?
gatorstud:
the qb weis envisioned starting at qb in 2007 was playing high school football in california last year. hard to give him playing time in 2006.
it doesn't matter who plays qb for nd this year. nd doesn't have enough experienced talent to win. the o-line is terrible, no good wide receivers, and there doesn't appear to be a solid rb either. but, you're right - the reason nd is 0-2 is because evan sharpley didn't get any reps in 2006.
disinterested said:
posted on September 10, 2007 4:49 PM — 165.97.125.84 — link — abuse?
gatorstud:
the qb weis envisioned starting at qb in 2007 was playing high school football in california last year. hard to give him playing time in 2006.
it doesn't matter who plays qb for nd this year. nd doesn't have enough experienced talent to win. the o-line is terrible, no good wide receivers, and there doesn't appear to be a solid rb either. but, you're right - the reason nd is 0-2 is because evan sharpley didn't get any reps in 2006. makes no sense. also, i don't remember john david booty getting a bunch of reps when leinart was a senior.
gatorstud said:
posted on September 10, 2007 5:05 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
ok, disinterested..... so ask yourself why they are so terrible.....charlie should have plenty of sophmores with experience...once a player reaches his sophmore year he should be ready to play..if he isn't then that is the coaches fault.....i mean, what in the hell were they doing in practice last year....sitting on thier helmets watching the seniors practice...i should hope not....coaches are there to coach all the players..not just the seniors and juniors....charlie should of been getting his guys ready..if if they weren't starting last year.....you still have to get the young guys ready.....those sophmores are young....but if they have no experience....then that is charlies fault....and not anyone elses....
my point i was trying to make is that when ty was at the helm, and notre dame wasn't doing well...it was his fault......and now when charlie isn't doing well...it is still ty's fault????? c'mon....
when are n-d fans gonna stop blaming ty...2020....and realize the situation their football team is in.....despair....and maybe charlie will have a good team in a couple of years.....and maybe he won't....it just seems to me that all the golden domers out there are more than willing to to give charlie more of a chance then they gave ty.....and i really don't want to start something here...but sooner or later someone should ask WHY.....
jmho
go gators...and hokies
TampaGator said:
posted on September 10, 2007 5:08 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
Disinterested:
ND's problem isn't a lack of talent; it's a "softness" with which ND plays (note my PS to IrishJT re. "the Gug").
I'm sorry, but we're talking NOTRE FREAK'N DAME here. Enough with the "we don't have the talent" crap. How'd Appy state get talent? L'ville? Rutgers? USF? ...
What ND doesn't have, is a training program that prepares its players to play with the big dogs--so that whenever they take the field with the big dogs, they get emasculated.
Case in point: last year, v. LSU, ND was talented enough to hang within 7 points of LSU in the first half (notwithstanding the offensive genius' botched fake punt that essentially surrendered field position to LSU for the first half...). Yet in the second half, they were being pushed around like sissies. Soft. Not slow, not stupid, not weak, simply freak'n soft. Period.
Look at the numbers; ND's players aren't smaller or slower than your average D-I team; they're just softer (doesn't show up in the numbers, other than the scoreboard)...and that's 95% coaching. It really shouldn't come as a surprise since your HC is soft as the Pillsbury doughboy.
Funny how Kevin posted a thread about how UF eats--details about what goes into making a champion--and essentially all it generated was mockery.
Good. Keep thinking those detials don't matter...
GO GATORS!!TampaGator said:
posted on September 10, 2007 5:09 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
Disinterested:
ND's problem isn't a lack of talent; it's a "softness" with which ND plays (note my PS to IrishJT re. "the Gug").
I'm sorry, but we're talking NOTRE FREAK'N DAME here. Enough with the "we don't have the talent" crap. How'd Appy state get talent? L'ville? Rutgers? USF? ...
What ND doesn't have, is a training program that prepares its players to play with the big dogs--so that whenever they take the field with the big dogs, they get emasculated.
Case in point: last year, v. LSU, ND was talented enough to hang within 7 points of LSU in the first half (notwithstanding the offensive genius' botched fake punt that essentially surrendered field position to LSU for the first half...). Yet in the second half, they were being pushed around like sissies. Soft. Not slow, not stupid, not weak, simply freak'n soft. Period.
Look at the numbers; ND's players aren't smaller or slower than your average D-I team; they're just softer (doesn't show up in the numbers, other than the scoreboard)...and that's 95% coaching. It really shouldn't come as a surprise since your HC is soft as the Pillsbury doughboy.
Funny how Kevin posted a thread about how UF eats--details about what goes into making a champion--and essentially all it generated was mockery.
Good. Keep thinking those detials don't matter...
GO GATORS!!TampaGator said:
posted on September 10, 2007 5:09 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
Disinterested:
ND's problem isn't a lack of talent; it's a "softness" with which ND plays (note my PS to IrishJT re. "the Gug").
I'm sorry, but we're talking NOTRE FREAK'N DAME here. Enough with the "we don't have the talent" crap. How'd Appy state get talent? L'ville? Rutgers? USF? ...
What ND doesn't have, is a training program that prepares its players to play with the big dogs--so that whenever they take the field with the big dogs, they get emasculated.
Case in point: last year, v. LSU, ND was talented enough to hang within 7 points of LSU in the first half (notwithstanding the offensive genius' botched fake punt that essentially surrendered field position to LSU for the first half...). Yet in the second half, they were being pushed around like sissies. Soft. Not slow, not stupid, not weak, simply freak'n soft. Period.
Look at the numbers; ND's players aren't smaller or slower than your average D-I team; they're just softer (doesn't show up in the numbers, other than the scoreboard)...and that's 95% coaching. It really shouldn't come as a surprise since your HC is soft as the Pillsbury doughboy.
Funny how Kevin posted a thread about how UF eats--details about what goes into making a champion--and essentially all it generated was mockery.
Good. Keep thinking those detials don't matter...
GO GATORS!!TampaGator said:
posted on September 10, 2007 5:10 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
Disinterested:
ND's problem isn't a lack of talent; it's a "softness" with which ND plays (note my PS to IrishJT re. "the Gug").
I'm sorry, but we're talking NOTRE FREAK'N DAME here. Enough with the "we don't have the talent" crap. How'd Appy state get talent? L'ville? Rutgers? USF? ...
What ND doesn't have, is a training program that prepares its players to play with the big dogs--so that whenever they take the field with the big dogs, they get emasculated.
Case in point: last year, v. LSU, ND was talented enough to hang within 7 points of LSU in the first half (notwithstanding the offensive genius' botched fake punt that essentially surrendered field position to LSU for the first half...). Yet in the second half, they were being pushed around like sissies. Soft. Not slow, not stupid, not weak, simply freak'n soft. Period.
Look at the numbers; ND's players aren't smaller or slower than your average D-I team; they're just softer (doesn't show up in the numbers, other than the scoreboard)...and that's 95% coaching. It really shouldn't come as a surprise since your HC is soft as the Pillsbury doughboy.
Funny how Kevin posted a thread about how UF eats--details about what goes into making a champion--and essentially all it generated was mockery.
Good. Keep thinking those detials don't matter...
GO GATORS!!Lennie Collins said:
posted on September 10, 2007 5:36 PM — 68.93.134.47 — link — abuse?
Disinterested...you comments are lame. It seems like Ty Willingham is still what is wrong with Norte Dame! Should Ty Willingham get the credit for Washington's 2-0 start or the coach before him? Notre Dame is pitiful. It is the coach and hisstaff that is to blame. You can call me stupid as well as the rest of the fans here but it will not erase the fact that Notre Dame is wretched! Notre Dame has not beaten a GOOD opponent since ULCA last year. Michigan is gone beat Notre Dame then you will see that Notre Dame is no good!
disinterested said:
posted on September 10, 2007 5:41 PM — 165.97.125.84 — link — abuse?
gatorstud:
a few counterpoints.
1. the sophomores this year were freshmen last year. although there are some exceptions, most freshmen typically don't see a lot of playing time during their freshmen season. weis didn't have the luxury of playing a bunch of freshmen because he was trying to get to a bcs bowl game in quinn's senior year. while nd might be marginally better this year had the freshmen played more last year, playing the freshmen last year would have sacrificed last season.
2. even if weis played every freshmen on the team last year on every play of every game, having a team full of "experienced" sophomores just isn't the same as being able to play juniors and seniors. ideally, the starters on a football team will consist mainly of seniors and juniors, with a smattering of sophomores and freshmen.
3. a couple of things to remember about willingham. first, he was only hired after the o'leary resume fiasco; he was not at the top of nd's wish list when they were looking to replace davie. o'leary wasn't even at the top of the wish list when they hired him. second, he was moving the team in the wrong direction. his last two recruiting classes were historically bad. many people believed that nd was going to get continually worse (not better) under willingham.
4. i think people are willing to give weis more time to turn the ship around because of the 3 super bowl rings and because he learned under two of the best nfl coaches in modern history (parcells and belichick). willingham didn't have that kind of pedigree.
5. weis has put together two great recruiting classes (2006 and 2007), and has put the irish in two consecutive bcs bowl games. although this is a down year, it's hard to argue that the program is in despair or that it's heading in the wrong direction. but, i think even the staunchest nd fan would readily admit that the team has a ways to go before it can compete with the trojans, gators, etc. for a national championship.
disinterested said:
posted on September 10, 2007 5:56 PM — 165.97.125.84 — link — abuse?
lennie:
you should read my posts more carefully. i agree that nd is not any good right now. you and i, however, disagree on why that is.
you keep spouting off about how weis and his staff are to blame for nd's wretchedness, but you haven't pointed to even one play call that supports your theory. check out rivals.com, and look at the last two recruiting classes willingham put together (the players that were freshmen in 2004 and 2005). those guys are juniors and seniors now. what is weis supposed to do with a bunch of 2 and 3-star players?
Lennie Collins said:
posted on September 10, 2007 6:11 PM — 68.93.134.47 — link — abuse?
When ol' Ty was there they were winning BUT National Title or else got him fired. He won with Robert Davies recruits. Ol' Chuckie is to to be all that and a lot more why can't he do da some. Ty maybe could have been a better coach than Charles if given a chance.
posted on September 10, 2007 6:26 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?War Eagle Atlanta said:
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TampaGator: See me after class! :-)
gatorstud said:
posted on September 10, 2007 7:03 PM — 72.69.14.26 — link — abuse?
disinterested #62...ok i could agree with you on a couple of those points , but one i just can't is #5...charlie didn't get them to a bcs....their bcs bids were "gifts" from the bcs boys....you know it...i know it..the whole freaking world knows it......
and your quote "many people believed that nd was going to get continually worse (not better) under willingham"......and there in lies the problem......perception....that ty couldn't get it done but "superbowl" charlie had a better resume so let's give him the benefit of the doubt....now, i am not trying to lump all notre dame fans and alum together, because i am sure that there are some fans that are willing to put up with it and see where it goes, but i know that there are a lot that are not happy with what has transpired at notre dame over the last eight years....
it seems to me that notre dame is banking a lot on charlie and i hope it does work out..but, if it doesn't......this will look bad on notre dame.
jmo....
go gators...and hokies
disinterested said:
posted on September 10, 2007 8:38 PM — 76.30.174.130 — link — abuse?
i'm not sure where all you guys get the idea that willingham is some great coach, and that nd will regret that it ever fired him. willingham coached 3 years at nd: in 2002, the team went 10-2, with blowout losses to usc and nc state and the wins were generally close games; in 2003, the team went 5-7, with blowout losses to michigan, usc, florida state, and syracuse; in 2004, the team went 6-6, with blowout losses to purdue, usc, and oregon state. he never lead nd to a bcs bowl game. and, again, his last two recruiting classes were abysmal. nothing about his resume (or first 3 seasons at nd) suggested he was turning the program around or that he could turn it around.
at washington, willingham hasn't been winning either. in 2005, he went 2-9, and in 2006, he went 5-7.
did willingham get a fair opportunity at nd? maybe not. but, he probably shouldn't have been hired in the first place.
weis might not be the savior for nd, but he has had much more success on the field and in recruiting than willingham ever had. and at least there is some empirical evidence to suggest that weis has the ability to build nd into an elite program again.
disinterested said:
posted on September 10, 2007 8:44 PM — 76.30.174.130 — link — abuse?
gatorstud:
the bottom line is that weis put nd in a position to qualify for a bcs bowl game in each of his first 2 seasons, regardless of whether there were other qualifying teams that deserved the bid more.
nd never qualified for a bcs bowl under willingham.
Lennie Collins said:
posted on September 10, 2007 9:24 PM — 68.93.134.47 — link — abuse?
Hey Disinterested...Charles Weis have not shown he is a coach yet. Contact the NCAA and tell them to count recruiting in the win lost column! Notre Dame has to win 9 doggone games to get a BCS bid. TY WILLINGHAM WAS NOT A GREAT COACH...but look at the overall picture of what he did and what Chuckie Wise is doing. Ty got fire because of his RACE! The alumni and boosters did not want him there, PERIOD! Yeah I said it and whatta gone do about it?
disinterested said:
posted on September 10, 2007 9:56 PM — 76.30.174.130 — link — abuse?
lennie:
in order for nd to get an automatic bcs bid, it has to be ranked in the top 8 in the bcs standings. to get an at-large bid, there has to be at least one automatic bid that doesn't get filled, it has to have 9 wins, and it has to be ranked in the top 14 in the bcs standings.
the alumni and boosters didn't want willingham at nd because he's not a good coach and he was leading the program in the wrong direction. he was hired for two reasons: (1) because nd didn't get the first 10 candidates on its wish list and (2) because he had modest success at stanford (21-15), so the ad thought he might be able to succeed at nd, which has similar academic admission standards.
you can scream race all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that willingham was not getting it done on the field or in recruiting.
weis has done markedly better than willingham, both on the field and in recruiting. no one can seriously argue otherwise.
Marko said:
posted on September 10, 2007 11:03 PM — 97.97.163.193 — link — abuse?
IrishJT,
This is the first Notre Dame schedule in recent history that has been tough. Last years schedule was a JOKE as was the year before that.
Like I said before the season started: "Notre Dame will only have 4 wins."
Tomcat said:
posted on September 11, 2007 4:40 AM — 69.148.173.234 — link — abuse?
#44 gatorhippy-good post
This week ND 0-2 vs Mich 0-2
somebody is gonna be 1-2 and the other 0-3
Wash Huskies lookin purty good coach Tyrone
Looks like a good matchup against Ohio st
Who knows App St vs Mich was a close one
IrishJT said:
posted on September 11, 2007 8:57 AM — 71.207.207.83 — link — abuse?
Marko,
You're an idiot. Notre Dame has consistently been in the top 10 of "tough schedules" for the last 10 years. Any schedule with Michigan, Penn State, Georgia Tech, UCLA and USC on it cannot be called a joke.TampaGator,
The GUG is a great recruiting tool and allows all Notre Dame athletes a private place to work out/train. The old weight room was small, in the JACC and not terribly private. When I was a student at ND I lifted in there more than once. That can't, and doesn't, happen at the Gug Complex. You have to be a monogram athlete to get in. I don't think the kids are getting soft because they have their own gym. The playstations in every locker is a bit much though, but it gets recruits.Tampa Hurricane
posted on September 11, 2007 10:22 AM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse?
said:
IrishJT, you usually come up with better facts than your post 77. I looked up the SOS for Notre Dame for 2005 and 2006, and it is far from your claim of a top 10 tough schedule. In 2005, their SOS was 44th in the nation. In 2006, they improved to 39th in the nation. Now with your ND education, we should expect more from your posts and shouldn't have to remind you that 39 and 44 are not in the top 10. Hopefully there was just a typo on your part and you ment to type in that the following:
post 77 corrected: Marko,
You're an idiot. Notre Dame has consistently been in the top 100 of "tough schedules" for the last 10 years....Gerald said:
posted on September 11, 2007 12:08 PM — 216.113.128.239 — link — abuse?
disinterested: That "horrible 2004 class" that you keep talking about was ranked #40 in the country; far higher than the Georgia Tech class that same year that only had 4 guys in it ranked higher than 2 stars by Rivals, and one of those guys left early for the NFL. And blaming Willingham for the 2005 class just doesn't cut it. The guy was fired in November, and knew that he was going to get fired as soon as they lost to BYU (which by the way Willingham totally blew with the horrible play calling of his offensive coordinator; he has a different coordinator at Washington) to begin the season. Here is a news flash: IF YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE YOUR JOB, YOU DO NOT KEEP RECRUITING TO HELP THE NEXT GUY LOOK GOOD. YOU LOOK FOR ANOTHER JOB, AND YOU TRY TO RECRUIT THE KIDS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE RECRUITED FOR THE PROGRAM THAT FIRED YOU WHEN YOU GET IT.
And you still haven't dealt with this fact: when Weis was hired, Notre Dame lowered their academic standards to help him recruit. Before where it was up there with Northwestern and Stanford, now it is no higher than UCLA or the typical ACC school (I said TYPICAL, mind you, not Virginia Tech, FSU, or Clemson). And ND also started allowing early enrollees in the spring. So lots of the guys in Weis' "better recruiting classes" Willingham wouldn't have even been allowed to recruit in the first place. Now when I raise that FACT to ND fans on their boards, they say "Well, this only proves that Weis is a better coach than Willingham, because Weis was able to get ND's administration to make these changes and Willingham wasn't." Please. They made those concessions the moment Willingham was fired, and they were willing to drop the academic requirements even lower for Meyer. So that's right, Jimmy Clausen wouldn't even BE at Notre Dame had ND not allowed early enrollment. Otherwise, the guy would be playing in the SEC like both his brothers.
Do not get me wrong; Willingham did deserve to be fired. He refused to fire his utterly incompetent offensive coordinator, and though his defensive coordinator was a better coach, he wasn't much of a recruiter. But it is disgusting how ND fans A) refused to admit that Willingham's offensive struggles were PRIMARILY due to his having to move ND from the option to a pro - style offense, meaning that he either had to play bad option players like Carlyle Holiday or true freshmen before they were ready like Brady Quinn, Darius Walker, and Maurice Stovall and B) do not acknowledge that Willingham left Weis a program capable of running his offense and upperclassmen players to do it with, a luxury that Willingham did not have, and C) that having to play a true freshman QB and inexperienced OLs and WRs, Weis is only now going through what Willingham had to put up with HIS ENTIRE NOTRE DAME TENURE. Oh yeah, and Weis was able to win 19 games without defeating a single top 20 team? Willingham beat multiple top 20 teams in his first year, and even beat more in years 2 and 3. So go ahead and admit it ND fans ... Weis had an easier road to victories than did Willingham, and a better team to do it with. There is a difference between having to go out and win games with a guy who is now playing WR for the Green Bay Packers as your QB (Carlyle Holiday) and then have to replace him midseason with a true freshman, and have guys like Omar Jenkins, Matt Shelton, Ronnie Rodamer, George Godsey, etc. to throw to (remember those guys?) than having Quinn, Stovall, McKnight, Carlson, Samardzija, Walker, Fasano, etc., and all as experienced players or upperclasmen. Willingham had to move TEs to offensive tackle, DTs to offensive guard, QBs to TE, and LBs and DBs to tailback because Davie recruited no players capable of running a passing offense (and they really weren't doing a good job of running an option offense). Any of you remember that? Of course you don't. All you want to talk about is Weis' Super Bowl rings.
Oh yes, and great job mentioning how Willingham is 2 - 10 and 5 - 7 at Washington. Totally leave out how the team was 1 - 10 and on probation when Willingham took it over. Also totally leave out that Washington started out 5 - 1, with their only loss to Southern Cal by less than a TD until their starting QB got hurt, and Willingham made the decision not to burn Jake Locker's redshirt. How many games would ND have won last year had Brady Quinn gotten injured? Precisely what I thought.
And by the way ... that 2005 recruiting class that Willingham supposedly ruined? It really was not so horrible. ND wound up with 13 recruits at the 3 star level or higher. Georgia Tech only had 7 recruits at the 3 star level (and they had none higher than 3 stars) and it was considered one of their best recruiting classes in years. ND's OL problem this year seems to be that Weis RAN OFF Willingham OL recruits Nicolas, Kadous, and Incarnato. If those three guys were in South Bend right now, at least two of them would be starting, right along with Willingham recruit John Sullivan. But again, you ND fans don't like to talk about that either, do you?
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on September 11, 2007 2:51 PM — 71.103.225.30 — link — abuse?
Like I've said for awhile now - Weis is way overrated. He won with Willingham's kids. Willingham was only given three years, had one poor recruiting class, and was dismissed. This guy rode in like the "savior". Now look! Willingham is bringin' the Washington Huskies back - while Notre Dame is becoming an obstacle to my beloved Trojan's SOS. Notre Dame's lack of success is gonna hurt the Trojan's in the final BCS standings. So now, I have even another reason to hate Notre Dame. I would prefer that Notre Dame get their act together and give somebody a decent game again - some time soon! I think Michigan will stomp them this comming weekend. It's just a shame that a storied program like Notre Dame's - has to rely on a true freshman QB to try and salvage a season. That is just ridiculous! What has Weis been recruiting for the previous two years? He couldn't get a decent QB to come in? Are you kidding me? What an offensive genius he is! How bout So Cal with John Booty, Mark Sanchez, Mitch Mustain and Aaron Corp? Looks like four great QB's to me. And, all spread out to give veteran leadership during any year (with backup). In fact, most teams have at least two decent QB's. I'm sorry - Notre Dame is just a sorry team with a sorry planner at the helm.
Tommie T
ndfan said:
posted on September 12, 2007 1:30 AM — 75.2.67.187 — link — abuse?
ND looks like it will only win 3 games this season ( DUKE, Airforce, and Staford). Worse, Charlie's team has been man handled against the few elite teams that he has played(LSU, OSU, and USC twice, and Michigan last year). When you are given the talent that he was given the last two years you are expected to win at least one of those games. Losing all four big games is the fault of the leader of the team not the players.
( Lets not forget that he had Stovall, Quinn, Walker, and Samarzjda)It is amazing that anyone can overlook these facts. He is not in his first season or even his second season. He is in HIS 3RD!! season. Instead of making excuses about how he was handicapped by the previous coaches' recruiting class or the circumstances of his arrival lets look at what he does instead. Currently he is mediocre at best. If it wasn't for the bowl games he would have been considered less than mediocre. I don't understand how you can give a man who has not won a single championship or bowl game as a head coach so much slack? How does one obtain a 10- year extension after only two mediocre seasons? This is Notre Dame we should demand more. I thought people were supposed to earn their rewards through competition not be given gifts for what we want them to be.
Unfortunately, we also proved to everyone that that we did not even deserve to be in those bowl games. I agree with putting the most watched teams on TV but I expect these teams to be able to put up a fight and make the games exciting. That is after all why we watch football and why it is the most exciting game in the world.
Don't get me wrong. I love ND. I will continue to watch every single game and cheer them on as long as I live. But one thing I will not do is blind myself to the poor coaching and overrated expectations we have created.
Lets just win and let the rest fall into place.
At the very least, lets admit the coach needs help, our team has been overrated, and that we need to stop making stupid 10 year extentions to unproven coaches.I hope Weiss finds a way to turn this around.
It looks like he will be given that chance, unlike his predecessor Ty.Lets Go Charlie, I am still optimistic, but you will have to earn my admiration, because right now you don't have it.
TampaGator said:
posted on September 12, 2007 10:47 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
ND Fan:
Well stated. Weis needs to earn his keep.
...maybe demonstrate a little humility in the process.
Gerald:
Excellent post; great analysis. I handn't thought of a number of those points you brought up...
IrishJT:You must be on to something there; Rivals.com had Notre Dame ranked #1 in recruiting with 19 well regarded commits (UF off to slow start with only 5).
...still, those boys are playing soft. I thought the Gug was the indoor training facility; I think that's what needs to go. 3-a-days and 2-a-days are for throwing up your summers' intake of beer...not playing patty-cake in the AC.
Either the players puke in the preseason, or the fans, throughout the regular season.
My $.20.
GO GATORS!!
TampaGator said:
posted on September 12, 2007 10:48 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
ND Fan:
Well stated. Weis needs to earn his keep.
...maybe demonstrate a little humility in the process.
Gerald:
Excellent post; great analysis. I handn't thought of a number of those points you brought up...
IrishJT:You must be on to something there; Rivals.com had Notre Dame ranked #1 in recruiting with 19 well regarded commits (UF off to slow start with only 5).
...still, those boys are playing soft. I thought the Gug was the indoor training facility; I think that's what needs to go. 3-a-days and 2-a-days are for throwing up your summers' intake of beer...not playing patty-cake in the AC.
Either the players puke in the preseason, or the fans, throughout the regular season.
My $.20.
GO GATORS!!
gatorstud said:
posted on September 12, 2007 10:58 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
ndfan #82...it is about damn time that a nd fan comes out and agrees with the rest of the country about the state of notre dame football.....
to the rest of irish fans out there....ndfan just showed you all how to be a true fan....love your team....fight for your team (and i don't mean rippin off someones testis).....but most important...be honest about what shape your football program is in......
and ndfan....for you, i will root for the irish this weekend.....good luck against mich....
jmho
go gators....and hokies
CF Fan said:
posted on September 13, 2007 5:39 PM — 72.54.248.245 — link — abuse?
I sympathize for all true ND believers; ever fan wants their team to compete and win, so much so that they sometimes fail to see the truth. How many times do I have to read that ND's issues stem from poor recruiting by the prior coach? If memory serves me correctly, coach Carol (USC) took over his current job in 2000, sported two .500 teams, then never looked back again. Why hasn't coach Weis done the same? Answer: poor recruiting, poor player development, poor leadership.
Oh, and for those who beleive coach Weis was such an integral part of the Patriots winning teams; seems the Pats aren't such a bad team without him. Makes you wonder if Ty Willingham couldn't have coached the Patriots to a few Super Bowls under head coach Belichick.
Gatorboy 40 said:
posted on September 17, 2007 3:17 AM — 138.163.160.43 — link — abuse?
nd fan post 82.
Thanks for keeping it real. The problem is not really Charlie, well maybe. But ND has no play maker, they need atheletes,,,,BAD. I think Tyrone had a better chance of making that happen, than Charlie. He hyas been a little more humbled the past few days than he was at the beginning of the season. I do wonder how much longer they will stick with him. They can't live on tridition alone,,,,GOOD LUCK.
domerjd said:
posted on September 17, 2007 12:17 PM — 216.158.229.170 — link — abuse?
This is absolutely embarrasing. 0-3 and no glimmer of light in sight. I don't care who's recruit's these are, they look like they just flat out don't know how to play. O-Line is horrible, absolutely no running game, no receiving core, and a defense that will be on the field 75% of the game. If Ty was still coaching they would already be calling for his head. Charlie better get these boys motivated real quick or this could go down as one of the worst year's ever in ND history....
Embarrased ND fan...
TampaGator said:
posted on September 17, 2007 12:40 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
Domerjd:
...there is a thin silver lining to this cloud: I'm sure the demand for ND tickets has loosened up significantly...good time to scalp some tix on the cheap, and catch a game at NDS!
Just a thought.
GO GATORS!!
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War Eagle Atlanta said:
posted on September 7, 2007 1:29 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?Now's about the time that someone finds a resume malfunction for Charley Cheeseburger...
Brady Quinn for Heisman!