October 29, 2007
Notre Dame to rake in $1.3 million from BCS this year
Just a friendly reminder: Everyone's favorite one-win team will receive a check for approximately $1.3 million dollars this year for not playing in the Bowl Championship Series.
From the BCS Media Guide:
Notre Dame is guaranteed 1/66th of the net revenues after expenses, or approximately $1.3 million. Notre Dame will receive $4.5 million when its team is a participant.
You will recall that Notre Dame renegotiated its BCS agreement in 2005 to guarantee a payout, even if the Irish did not play in a BCS game, in exchange for a lower guarantee in years when the team did qualify.
Comments:
Zac said:
posted on October 29, 2007 8:34 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
R U SERIOUS?!?!?
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Ahem, well, I wonder how the absolutely, positively, unadulteratedly STUPID BCS Org. feels about their contract with the Irish now!?!
I knew there was a reason for DEMOLISHING the B(c)S. Here it is, folks; it's Play-Off Time!!!
posted on October 29, 2007 8:39 PM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue
said:
The BCS agreed to it to satisfy the conferences. Prior to the agreement, Notre Dame got approx $15 million for playing in a BCS game - equal to what the BCS conferences received and then split amongst the members.
Notre Dame agreed to reduce the game payout to approximately $4.5 million when they played, but mandated that they received 1/66 of the overall revenue when they did not.
1st_and_NOLE
posted on October 29, 2007 8:50 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse? said:
Maybe the BCS should restructure the contract so there's a clause that... when ND loses in a bowl game by 20+ points they have to pay back $1.3 million and if they lose 20+ in a BCS bowl they have to pay back $4.5 million.
Cane Mutiny
posted on October 29, 2007 11:12 PM — 76.109.86.102 — link — abuse? said:
Screw Notre Dame.
I'm gonna put it out there plain and simple.
Of all the aspects to love about this year in football, Notre Dame at 1-7 is my favorite part of this season. If only UCLA hadn't forgotten to put its football team on the bus to the game...
Notre Dame IS like a rich kid -
Born on third base and thinks it hit a triple.
Anybody seen any of those cocky Irish fans around lately?
Heh heh...
It's great to be a Miami Hurricane!
Autigerman said:
posted on October 30, 2007 9:53 AM — 129.61.46.16 — link — abuse?
Actually probably a pretty good deal. I couldnt stand the fact that they would get that much and not have to share it with anyone.
But i would like to know what happens to the other 9.5 million that is saved when they actually do go to a BCS game.
TampaTiger said:
posted on October 30, 2007 10:27 AM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse?
Notre Dame has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the last 18 or 19 years to even come remotely close to doing anything to deserve any kind of a contract for bowl games with anyone! Notre Dame's "favorite child" treatment by the BCS just goes to further prove the arguement for dropping the entire BCS system. We have put the hopes and dreams of winning a national championship for every college football team in the hands of a group of morons who think it's good for the game to pay $1.3 million to a team who hasn't won a bowl game since 1994 with a current record of 1-7?!?!?!?!?! You have got to be kidding me. Notre Dame is a joke. The BCS is a joke. NBC is a joke. And while I'm at it.....cut the F***ing grass on your field ND!! It looks like the poor family in the neighborhood with toys and cars spread throughout the yard!!!!!!!
Ok, I'm done. Sorry, a little pent up aggression there.
Autigerman said:
posted on October 30, 2007 12:20 PM — 129.61.46.16 — link — abuse?
Im no fan of the BCS. However i think that its a good idea to not give ND 14 million for a BCS game when every other team must share that with there respective conferences. Even at the expense of 1.3 million a year.
Without doing the math im pretty sure that all BCS conference teams get at least that much even if they dont participate in a bowl.Just based on the fact that Bowl teams have to share the monies with their conferences and all BCS conference teams have at least one BCS bowl team.However ,I dont think its fair to the other independent teams and I believe they should get a slice of that same pie.
I suppose the best solution would be to force ND to join a conference and just do away with Independends all together. The fact that the BCS agreed to take this deal just proves that they have no thoughts of forcing ND to join a conference any time soon.
4lilnoles said:
posted on October 30, 2007 12:23 PM — 199.67.138.154 — link — abuse?
When is Notre Dame finally gonna join a conference? (Never, if they have these kind of agreements). Division 1 should split into super conference, add about 8 conferences and just leave Notre Dame out, if they don't join a conf.
TampaGator said:
posted on October 30, 2007 3:28 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
Well, since no one else seems willing to go to bat for Our Lady of the Lake, I guess I'll champion her cause once again.
"...Notre Dame IS like a rich kid -Born on third base and thinks it hit a triple..."
Yeah, that's historically accurate--not.
How about Notre Dame was the poor Irish kid who beat the crap out of all the rich kids, and made quite a name for himself in this country.
Ok, so the 'ol Irishman has grown a little long in the tooth of late, and can't fight like he used to; but the legacy remains intact.
___________________________________________
Now, to the blog:"...Notre Dame renegotiated its BCS agreement in 2005 to guarantee a payout, even if the Irish did not play in a BCS game, in exchange for a lower guarantee in years when the team did qualify..."
Sounds to me like the Notre Dame's negotiators saw this season coming. Sadly, when they are good again, they will--in all liklihood--take the BCS out to the proverbial woodshed yet again, and "negotiate" yet another even more ND favorable deal.
We can all clench our fists in frustration, curse the very land upon which Our Lady's campus sits, and curse her ancestors, descendents, and everything and everyone in between...
...but if you wonder why the BCS would pen such a deal long enough, the answer will kick you square in the nuts.
It's really quite simple folks. When ND wins, we all win. I'm quite sure the BCS ran their numbers, and found it works out just fine for everyone. The 'ol Leprechaun carries his own weight either way.
All this whining--reminds me of folks bitching about Bill Gates's wealth. He earned it; as did ND. Admire it or hate it, acknowledge it or not, you benefit directly from it.
My $.02.
GO GATORS!!shiguy said:
posted on October 30, 2007 3:46 PM — 157.182.197.117 — link — abuse?
ok well i agree that this probably is not much different compared to what the other non-bowl teams in conferences get from their repected teams that make it into bowls. however if notre dame is getting this ther other independents should be entitled to it as well.
Gator Boys said:
posted on October 30, 2007 4:45 PM — 66.231.138.222 — link — abuse?
#18 Yea, but the only reason ND is getting money now is from what they did in the past. They dont deserve anything anymore. They're terrible and havent been good in a long time. Shouldnt ND have enough boosters to pay for things anyway?
TampaGator said:
posted on October 30, 2007 5:54 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
Gator Boys/#20:
Perhaps some foundation is in order.
Advertisers want their products exposed to the greatest number of people. Notre Dame's involvement increases the number of viewers significantly enough to drive up ad rates to pay for these figures and then some. Consequently, ND writes its own ticket--as long as it remains within the realm of profitability for both parites (hence the NBC contract--they ain't stupid).
...when ND is good, ALL CFB benefits from more viewers--be they ND lovers, haters, or folks just tuning in due to the buzz generated by ND's involvement (nothing to do with their boostes)....conversely, when they're bad, like this year--a lot of the buzz subsides, the haters aren't motivated, and the lovers are snoozing 'til next year--drives ad rates down.
To the point at hand: on years when ND makes it to BCS bowls--the BCS probably makes enough off ND to cover up for ND's weak years in which they don't, before even factoring in for the reduced rate (as long as the ratio remains at least 2-1, ND going to BCS bowls) i.e.--they don't pay for those lean years just from the reduced payout, but from the surplus of what they made off of ND's involvement in BCS years (with plenty left over) from inflated ad rates.
Hence Notre Dame isn't getting one red penny for what they did in the past; they're getting all that jack for what they bring to the table when they are good. The business world simply doens't pay for warm, fuzzy feelings; they pay for the calculated ROI.
The past simply helps explain how they are able generate such ROI.
My $.02.
GO GATORS!!TampaGator said:
posted on October 30, 2007 5:54 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
Gator Boys/#20:
Perhaps some foundation is in order.
Advertisers want their products exposed to the greatest number of people. Notre Dame's involvement increases the number of viewers significantly enough to drive up ad rates to pay for these figures and then some. Consequently, ND writes its own ticket--as long as it remains within the realm of profitability for both parites (hence the NBC contract--they ain't stupid).
...when ND is good, ALL CFB benefits from more viewers--be they ND lovers, haters, or folks just tuning in due to the buzz generated by ND's involvement (nothing to do with their boostes)....conversely, when they're bad, like this year--a lot of the buzz subsides, the haters aren't motivated, and the lovers are snoozing 'til next year--drives ad rates down.
To the point at hand: on years when ND makes it to BCS bowls--the BCS probably makes enough off ND to cover up for ND's weak years in which they don't, before even factoring in for the reduced rate (as long as the ratio remains at least 2-1, ND going to BCS bowls) i.e.--they don't pay for those lean years just from the reduced payout, but from the surplus of what they made off of ND's involvement in BCS years (with plenty left over) from inflated ad rates.
Hence Notre Dame isn't getting one red penny for what they did in the past; they're getting all that jack for what they bring to the table when they are good. The business world simply doens't pay for warm, fuzzy feelings; they pay for the calculated ROI.
The past simply helps explain how they are able generate such ROI.
My $.02.
GO GATORS!!Philly Irish said:
posted on October 30, 2007 5:55 PM — 151.191.175.234 — link — abuse?
ND made a deal that puts them on the same footing as members of the major conferences. When Boston College goes to a BCS bowl this year they will keep approximately $4.5 mm and the other ACC teams will get approximately $1.3 mm from the BCS. If ND had not agreed to this deal they would have earned about $15 mm last year when they played in the Sugar Bowl. Instead based upon their new deal they only received about $4.5 mm.
When the BCS renewed it's contract last time ND was down and they were not negotiating from a position of strength. The next time that the BCS is negotiated Notre Dame should demand that they are paid a full share ($15 mm) when they reach a BCS game and nothing when they do not.
Charlie Weis is going to turn things around at Notre Dame. The recruits that are in the current freshman and the sophomore classes were both ranked about #8 nationally and ND has the #1 recruiting class in the country coming in. Enjoy kicking Notre Dame while they are down because things are changing in South Bend.
Go Irish!
Cane Mutiny
posted on October 30, 2007 6:06 PM — 65.12.247.141 — link — abuse? said:
#18, Tampa Gator -
"Born on third base and think they hit a triple."
I'm not talking about Notre Dame as a program. I'm talking about Notre Dame in the recent past.
The past decade or so, Notre Dame has gotten by based on what they were 'born with' - the reputation that was carried over from past (way past) success.
The teams that ND has fielded in recent years have not deserved any of the hype they have received. They were just riding on the fumes of historical prominence. And now they're 1-7 and still demanding the big bucks.
Born on third base and think they hit a goddamn triple.
GatorMatt
posted on October 30, 2007 6:34 PM — 70.171.18.91 — link — abuse? said:
#24,
I'm still laughing my ass off
#23,
You're an idiot. You don't get a #1 recruiting class by playing like crap. Why do you think Florida had the #1 recruiting class this year? Notice how several of the ND players have jumped ship? You do realize signing day isn't until February. How many recruits are gonna stay on board when ND goes 1-11? Players sign to win championships, not get laughed at. Pull your head out of your ass
Philly Irish said:
posted on October 30, 2007 6:41 PM — 151.191.175.232 — link — abuse?
I realize that national signing day is in February, but ND just got two more commitments last week (4 star WR Michael Floyd and 4 star RB Jonas Gray) and they have not had anyone de-commit yet. I'm sure that Urban Meyer will be contacting NDs recruits just like he went after Trattou last year, but it isn't going to matter. ND isn't going to lose many, if any, recruits this year and they will definitely end up with a #3 recruiting class.
Go Irish!
gatorstud said:
posted on October 30, 2007 7:01 PM — 72.69.2.100 — link — abuse?
philly irish....i havn't seen you on here before, but i like the way you post...usually first timers come on here start dogging on someone without putting in some time first.....
what is it going to take for the irish fans to turn on weiss....i live around a lot of irish fans and some are already jumping ship, i think charlie has to win the navy game...if he wants to save himself he has to win it....nd has one of the largest fan base (next to my beloved steelers) that is spread across the entire country.....but if he loses that game...i believe you will see recruits jump ship.....cause it doesn't matter how bad the past notre dame teams have been.....this will be considered the worst.....weiss's record against willingham's record is far from impressive, and it doesn't loook to get any better....
i hope your right about recruits wanting to stay......they better bring life preservers with them...cause the ship is sinking fast.....
i hope irish jt comes back to chat with us....he is arrogant sometimes....but he knows hi s@*t when it comes to nd football....and i would like his honest perspective on this...it has been a while for him here....
jmho....
go gators...and hokies
Philly Irish said:
posted on October 30, 2007 7:14 PM — 151.191.175.231 — link — abuse?
Weis came in when the future of ND football looked very bleak and he took both of those teams to BCS games. The 2005 and 2006 Irish were not as good as USC, Ohio State and LSU, but they were legitimate top 15 teams. The 2005/2006 seasons along with the improvement in recent recruiting classes has earned Coach Weis a free pass with most Irish fans for this season. If ND loses to Navy Weis will certainly start to really feel the pressure, but he will definitely be back next year. I think that most ND fans figured that this year was going to be a rough season, but they probably thought that the Irish would be 7-5 or 6-6. If Charlie doesn't get things turned around by next year (8-4 or better) then he is rightfully going to take the blame for not getting things turned around. Many fans, myself included, believe that the current team is not playing at a high level because Coach Willingham did not work at recruiting and he didn't bring in the talent that is necessary to win games. That excuse won't fly next year when Charlie will have three full classes of his recruits in South Bend.
FromVT said:
posted on October 30, 2007 7:42 PM — 76.30.254.215 — link — abuse?
Since when does top 15 mean BCS bid? That is a silly statement. Never, only with ND because of the following, not because of the team. The Bowl committees know that ND will bring a bunch of money to any game so they get in on that alone. Last two years going 9-2 before the Bowls was definitely respectable, but don't throw in top 15 team, there are better teams that don't get to go just because they don't bring money along, which only degrades what those kids who deserve it did all year. We all know that these decisions are made largely based on MONEY!
It is interesting is that people think that Willingham did such a bad job recruiting, however Weis's first two years at ND were what 9-2, now with a third year of recruiting how are they doing? Not so good. There is NO good reason why Weis gets the leeway like he does and Willingham got none. That is ridiculous.
OU-Ron
posted on October 30, 2007 7:43 PM — 72.198.24.199 — link — abuse? said:
@29 I admit that I have not followed ND football, but let me get this straight, Weis comes in and takes his team to BCS bowls with Willinghams recruits ( I assume )and now ND will be lucky to finish the season with a 1 to 3 win season, what's wrong with this picture.
Cane Mutiny
posted on October 30, 2007 8:54 PM — 65.12.247.141 — link — abuse? said:
Philly, come on, Weis can get all the love the recruiting websites want to give him, but when you're 1-7 three years in, there's not much you can say. OU Ron is absolutely right, when a guy comes in and gets to a BCS Bowl in Year 1 [although I'd debate how much they deserved that bowl bid, but that's not the point], and then three years in he's 1-7 - what faith can you really have?
And thanks, but I didn't come up with the third base thing - I forget where it's from, but someone said it about Bush or some other politician... I thought it applied here too :D
And OU Ron, #24, I laughed for like three straight minutes, man...
hrposon said:
posted on October 30, 2007 9:49 PM — 98.200.123.115 — link — abuse?
@18 TampaGator - Well done...
These guys are blinded by their hate of Notre Dame.
Meanwhile, The Ohio State University is about to go to another BS Championship game when they should probably be just now getting off probation.Philly Irish said:
posted on October 30, 2007 10:02 PM — 69.242.74.101 — link — abuse?
When ND got its last two BCS bids they deserved to go. They were ranked #5 and #11 prior to the bowl games in 2005 and 2006 respectively. As others have mentioned it doesn't hurt that ND also has the largest national following and therefore they are the team that sponsors want in the BCS games.
Here is a breakdown of ND's recruiting over the last several years. These rankings are from rivals.com.
2002 - #24
2003 - #12 (Great class fueled by ND's 8-0 start)
2004 - #32
2005 - #40 (Class hurt by Ty's firing/Weis coaching Patriots through the Super Bowl)
2006 - #8
2007 - #8
2008 - #1 (Ranking may drop, but probably not out of the top 3 classes)Recruiting rankings are not perfect, but they are a general indicator of the talent that is coming in. Willingham's 2003 class was very good, but Brady Quinn would not have developed into a first round selection under Willingham's coaching staff. The 2004 class (Willingham's last full class) was very weak. Only two players from that class have been impact players at Notre Dame (Darius Walker and Maurice Crum). The 2005 class was poor before Ty was fired and it was hurt because some players left after the coaching change and Weis did not come to South Bend full time until after he had helped the Pats to win another Super Bowl.
The 2004 and 2005 classes (current ND Jr/Sr classes) were very weak along the offensive and defensive lines. As a result the Irish have limited quality and depth along the defensive line. It is very difficult to win against a relentless schedule (ND's game against Navy this weekend is their first game against a non-BCS conference team this year) when you are playing numerous freshman and sophomores along the offensive and defensive lines. Notre Dame has 1 senior offensive lineman on its roster (5th year center John Sullivan).
I'm not giving Weis a complete free pass. He mishandled the start of this season by trying to go with the spread offense against Ga Tech and by not working on fundamentals in the spring/summer. It is clear that the Irish were not ready for the start of this season. All that I am saying is that I am willing to give Coach Weis the benefit of the doubt based upon his coachng resume and the back to back BCS bids the last two years. I think that he is going to turn the program around. I really think that the Irish will be excellent next year and that they will win the national championship in 2009.
I'm sorry to be so long winded. Go Irish!
badgerballer
posted on October 31, 2007 1:17 AM — 70.59.218.130 — link — abuse? said:
#2, point #2 - you couldn't possibly be more right. Worth every last nickel!Philly - you paint yourself into a very difficult corner, trying to support the statement that ND DESERVED to be in a BCS bowl last season. (especially with Wisconsin fans)
Gator Boys said:
posted on October 31, 2007 3:24 AM — 66.231.138.222 — link — abuse?
philly #38
I hate to be/look biased, but we all know Urban Meyer and the Gators will be better than ND in 2009 talent-wise. With a #2 recruiting class being seniors and a #1 recruiting class being juniors we'll have better players than ND. Plus (if they dont leave early) we'll have Tebow and/or Harvin, two 5 star players who play like 6 star players. For somebody who likes recruiting info, you should be scared of Florida and USC.
irishburgh said:
posted on October 31, 2007 8:20 AM — 63.69.208.230 — link — abuse?
Guys,
The teams in your conference who are in last place with either 1 or no wins will get a similar payout from you conference winnings. Heck it could actually be more. That means Baylor, Duke, Minnesota, Iowa State,Washinton, and Mississippi all get similar money if not more for same crappy record and a non bowl appearance like ND.
Try to see the whole picture and check your ND hatred when you comment on things like this because its hypocritical.
OU-Ron
posted on October 31, 2007 8:50 AM — 216.201.209.146 — link — abuse? said:
@39 I get your point to an extent, and I guess I would say that is the reward a team gets for being part of a conference, what I don’t see is why the BCS pay’s ND for not only being in a BCS bowl, but for any bowl for that matter. I know that I’m not the sharpest pencil in the pack (unlike TE) but that just does not make sense to me. Someone will have to explain it better.
gatorstud said:
posted on October 31, 2007 8:51 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
irishburgh......that is because those teams are in a conference...and the conference SHARES the money......who does notre dame share their money with......oh that's right....NOBODY.....and if nd got skipped over for a bcs bid, for a team with a worse record.....you and all of notre dame nation would be screaming bloody murder too....so please don't try to play the "hypocrit card"...it wont fly here....
notre dame put themselves in this position with their lucrative tv contracts....throw in the o'leary fiasco.....the firing of willingham.. for a "offensive guru".....who happens to have a similar record if not worse......and everyone gets to see notre dame get their asses handed to them on national tv.....when there are better game on.....
let me ask you this...do you think that the NBC execs. are sitting home on saturdays watching the notre dame - usc game...and saying...yeah this was worth the money.....
notre dame now...isn't the same as notre dame of old.......it is the notre dame fans that need to come down off their high horses and get a reality check.....and stop dreaming of days gone by......your football program is in shambles...and nothing is being done about it.....
oh wait...you guys play navy this week.....so much for the streak...now that is a reality check....
jmho....
go gators.....and hokies
Philly Irish said:
posted on October 31, 2007 9:09 AM — 151.191.175.231 — link — abuse?
Gatorstud-
The payout for a BCS bowl is about $15 mm. For teams from BCS conferences that $15 mm is split about $4.5 mm to the team that plays in the BCS bowl game and $1.3 for the other members of the conference. Under their old agreement ND would keep the entire $15 mm when they went to a BCS bowl, but they would get nothing if they did not go to a BCS bowl. Under their new agreement they get approximately the same payout as everyone else ($4.5 mm if they go to a BCS bowl and $1.3 mm if they do not). Personally I would have liked the Irish to be in a position to make $15 mm when they go to the BCS and $0 when they do not.
gatorstud said:
posted on October 31, 2007 9:26 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
Philly Irish...just so you know.. i am not an irish hater....i live 20 min. east of s. bend.....and i have irish blood running through my gator veins....i hear a lot from the notre dame faithful......
it just seems that ND is getting more than what they deserve.....they get all these benfits of a national power house.....in all the while wiping egg from their faces.......
and i know for a fact...that if the same thing was going on at USC...tv contracts...hiring and firing inconsistencies.....the domers would have a field day dogging them.....
jmho......
go gators...and hokies
FromVT said:
posted on October 31, 2007 10:18 AM — 76.30.254.215 — link — abuse?
#39 - So does Western Kentucky/Navy/Army all get the same money that ND gets for not being in a BCS game? If you want that money join a top conference. The only reason ND does not join a conference is because of money. They have a great following, a TV deal that pays them more than any other team in the country, so they stay independent. If you want that BCS money then 1.) either be good enough to make a BCS game or 2.) join a conference like the Big 10(11).
irishburgh said:
posted on October 31, 2007 10:51 AM — 63.69.208.230 — link — abuse?
VT- Of course not. Do any of those teams have the national following of both lovers and haters that ND has absolutely not? If you command National Media attention either positive or negative gives you an advantage. ND has that advantage because you can walk up to 100 people on the street and ask, "What do you think about Notre Dame Football" and 90 out of 100 will give you an opinion that is one side or the other and never in the middle. That sells newspapers, that sells TV ads, that sell merchandise, that sell tickets, that commands what college football, cynically, is about and that is $$$$$$$. The BCS itself is about $$$$ and the major conferences wanting to monopolize it and keep it for themselves. The Bowls are the ones that dictated to the BCS conferences that they wouldn't sign or agree to anything unless ND was on board.
When the BCS was organized this wasn't that far in the past that ND was competing for a national title in '93. The BCS, based on history, knew that they could not claim a legitimate National Champion unless ND was on board as well and that was the reason for the $15 mill payout. As ND slipped into mediocrity the deal was renegotiated and they got less of a payout for the appearance and some money when they don't even show in the BCS because that is what every other original BCS member gets.
I fail to see how this isn't fair. It’s a free country if ND doesn't want to join a conference and they can make money doing it then they shouldn't have to join a conference. The only reason Penn State and F$U joined a conference was because they were going broke plain and simple. I they were making good money being an independent then they wouldn't have joined a conference either.
OU-Ron
posted on October 31, 2007 11:09 AM — 216.201.209.146 — link — abuse? said:
@45 irishburgh, If ND keeps having 1 to 3 win seasons, you're gonna need those newspaper sales,TV ads and merchandise sales to fill your stadium. I don't care how big of a name ND is, fans want at least better than a break even season.
FromVT said:
posted on October 31, 2007 11:28 AM — 76.30.254.215 — link — abuse?
$45 - I never used the words not fair, thanks for speaking for me though. How did Boise State get into a BCS game last year without their Conference having a deal with the BCS? That's interesting, they got in on merit.
If ND has a good team they deserve to be part of the BCS, but IMO it is ridiculous to give them money for not being part of the BCS. Was it smart for them to negotiate that deal, of course, but that doesn't mean it is right. It is purely silly to give them money for a 2-3 win season as they will get this year.
posted on October 31, 2007 11:30 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Philly Irish: I admire your willingness to defend the ND faith on here, especially in light of the current season. Our last regular Irish fan bailed on us, but he had issues anyway.
Recruiting classes don't mean anything until they translate into success on the field. Look how the whole Clausen thing has turned out thus far. Recruiting is a lot of hype, especially when you're talking about it in the MIDDLE OF THE FOOTBALL SEASON.
"It’s a free country if ND doesn't want to join a conference and they can make money doing it then they shouldn't have to join a conference". Hey, I'm with you. I'm a free market kind of guy. Can't say I blame ND for not ducking when money is thrown at them.
But here's another thing we can do in a free market society. We, as schools, or as conferences, can choose who we want to play, right? No one forces us to play these OOC games. I say this: Have all 1-A schools agree to refuse to play any 1-A independents anymore. All BCS conference schools will only be allowed to play teams that are in conferences. Let the independents play the 1-AA schools or the Ivies. No more USC or Michigan State or the occassional Michigan for the Irish anymore. I would say Ohio State, but you guys have only played them 5 times in 120 years.
I wonder how much TV and BCS money the Irish could then command playing the Fresno States, Appalachian States, and Princetons of the world?
Anyone on board?
posted on October 31, 2007 11:34 AM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
CORRECTION: The direct quote in the post above I attributed to Philly Irish actually came from Irishburgh. Being Irish fans, both of you can feel free to answer though. The first part of the post was directed to Philly.
irishburgh said:
posted on October 31, 2007 12:55 PM — 63.69.208.230 — link — abuse?
First off OU-Ron, I couldn't agree with you more. I have confidence that this is not going to be a regular thing and as Philly is pointing out with the tallent it won't be or we get yet another coach. Maybe Patrino will be tired of the BS in Atlanta by then and want to get back to college.
As for the War Eagle and the like it is very funny to me that you scream injustice of the current contract yet you in essence want to black ball someone. How is it that is fair? Oh, because fair and rightousness is only fair and rightous if if it is weighted towards you or against someone you don't like.
ND in a down year wanted what every other BCS member (ND is a BCS member with a vote) has in a down year, and that is a piece of the pie.
Philly Irish said:
posted on October 31, 2007 1:01 PM — 151.191.175.234 — link — abuse?
War Eagle Atlanta-
Your idea of not playing ND would not benefit the BCS conference teams that play ND. USC, Michigan, etc. like playing ND because they get a game that is on national tv and they gain a lot of exposure. The alumni of those schools all look forward to the ND game. It isn't just another non-conference game for them. The benefit that USC, Michigan and Boston College get from playing Notre Dame far excedes any minor benefit that they would gain by colluding with other colleges to agree not to play against the Irish. Because there is so much money involved, if Michigan was to decide that they were not going to play ND anymore then Oklahoma or some other team would gladly take their place.
You are correct that recruiting rankings don't matter when they don't result in a better product being put on the field. If Coach Weis doesn't develope the talent base that he has and the Irish don't show a great deal of improvement next season then he is going to be on the hot seat.
Recruiting rankings are not an exact science, but they are fun to follow (especially during the off season or when your team is sitting at 1-7). While every five star recruit may not turn into a star player and some three star and below rated players turn out to be studs I think that it is fair to say that the more highly rated recruits you can bring in on a regular basis the better you can expect your team to perform on Saturdays in the future. Charlie Weis understands this and he has been busting it out on the recruiting trail. I still believe that the Irish are going to be back on top in the next two years.
Go Irish!
Sports Reporter said:
posted on October 31, 2007 4:11 PM — 143.231.249.141 — link — abuse?
People, you realize the BCS is ahead in this deal? Under the old deal, ND got paid the full conference alotment, $13 million or so, and now they make a fraction of that for going. If they had not restructured, they would have gotten paid roughly $30 million by the BCS.
You people don't realize blind fact that the BCS is SAVING money by ND remaining independent. You know that Minnesota and the dregs of other conferences are going to make money from the good teams in their conferences that make bowls? Hell, the 1 win with a loss to a D1-AA team Minnesota is going to make roughly $2 mil this year for sucking worse than Notre Dame, how come you idiots aren't rising up about that?
And up there with what Rammer Jammer said, how the hell do you justify the national championships and heismans they have won? Love them or hate them, they earned the respect they are getting, and maybe it is excessive, but they still earned it. Maybe they got blown out the past two years in their bowls but they still managed 9 win seasons, not a difficult feat. What are they supposed to do, refuse a BCS bowl nomination? If you want to get pissed at their overratedness and bowl nods, blame the writers and bowl committees for being idiots by voting them high and inviting them to bowls.
Don't question the Sports Reporter.
GatorMatt
posted on October 31, 2007 4:27 PM — 128.227.57.40 — link — abuse? said:
#56,
Everyone does blame the media for Notre Dame being ranked unfairly. I just get irritated with ND fans for thinking that they've earned everything that's been handed to them recently (see IrishJT, who's dropped off the face of the earth). If they would shut the hell up, which I think they have recently, I wouldn't have such a problem with the school in general
Jeff in San Diego said:
posted on October 31, 2007 4:49 PM — 76.212.140.27 — link — abuse?
I find it hilarious that people complain about ND making a BCS bowl game being independent but have no problems with the following conference champions making a BCS bowl game, with WORSE record than ND in comparative situations. All records noted were records BEFORE their bowl bid.
2000 - 8-3 UNRANKED Stanford bid to Rose Bowl
2001 - 8-3 UNRANKED Purdue bid to Rose Bowl
2001 - 9-3 LSU bid to Sugar Bowl
2003 - 9-4 FSU bid to Sugar Bowl
2005 - 7-4 FSU bid to Orange BowlFact: ND has never made a BCS bowl with more than 2 losses.
Fact: ND has made a BCS bowl game FEWER times total than there have been 3+ loss teams in the game.
I can debate intelligently about this all day long. However, there is such an inferiority complex with so many fans from other teams, such debate would be a waste of time. Envious opponents just do not think clearly about Notre Dame.
If so, where's the outrage for the aforementioned conference affiliated teams who made those BCS bowl games? THAT is the true travesty of the BCS. Three and four loss teams making the most prestigious of all bowl games?
gatorstud said:
posted on October 31, 2007 5:09 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
Jeff in San Diego....how do you know people weren't bitchin back then about it...just curious...do you have knowledge of people saying it was ok for them to go to bowl games back then....cuase i distinclty remember a lot of people complaining about both of fsu bids.....so good luck selling that one......
and if i am not mistaken.....all of those teams you have mentioned above have won bowl games since the first clinton administration.....ND hasn't....try defending that..
and are ok with ND jumping other teams ranked higher that ND (at the time) and getting bcs bids when they should of gone to better teams......go ahead and try selling that to the people in wisconsin.......
unless you have been on this site for a while and have had to deal with arrogant irish fans who think their sh@t don't stink no matter what their record is.....then you don't understand the frustration of the other posters....
the whole bcs system is screwed up and the light at the end of the tunnel....is just an oncoming train......
jmho...
go gators....and hokies
Kbyrnes said:
posted on October 31, 2007 5:16 PM — 24.14.253.159 — link — abuse?
"Born on 3rd base..."! Not.
There are a lot of misinformed comments here. ND paid its dues over the last century. They started 0-0 and have made their historical records even when schools like Michigan didn't want to play the Catholics, or when ND wanted to join the Big Ten but was rejected.
ND has a nation-wide following based on its nation-wide alumni base. Yes, NBC's market share for its gameday broadcasts is down this season, but it's a heck of a lot higher than it would be if those broadcasts were devoted to a single conference team--you name 'em.
If ND was absolutely, positively unworthy of the deal that they have with the BCS now...I guess those who feel that way here must be a lot smarter than the suits who made that deal, thinking that it was in the long-term best interest of the BCS. A deal is a deal...and whether it's NBC or the BCS, it's all about dollars and cents, people.
Whine on.
Jeff in San Diego said:
posted on October 31, 2007 5:26 PM — 76.212.140.27 — link — abuse?
#60,
You are certainly mistaken and not staying with the discussion. People are complaining about ND being independent and in the BCS. Nobody has mentioned FSU, Stanford, LSU, etc. etc. Why? Because nobody outside those respective communities really care. With the exception of LSU, Stanford got their 15 minutes of fame against USC, but otherwise have fallen off the map. FSU is off the grid and both of Stanford and FSU are now, well, irrelevant. Purdue is, well, Purdon't. ND is 1-7 and yet still one of the most debated topics in college football. I say again...inferiority complex.
Bill Clinton, inaugurated January 20, 1993.
January 1, 1994 - Notre Dame 24, Texas A&M 21. ND finishes #2 in the nation to a team THEY BEAT HEAD-T0-HEAD, #1 Florida State. Yeah, ND sure gets the benefit of the doubt from everybody, including the media, right? Yeah, I defended your Clinton riddle, now you defend ND finishing #2.
The BCS has a VERY CLEAR agreement approved by ALL CONFERENCE COMMISSIONERS and Athletic Directors, that each conference can have NO MORE than two teams in the BCS in a given year. Sorry Wisconsin, if you have a problem with that, blame Michigan, Ohio State, Jim Delany and your AD. Better yet Badgers, you should have beaten Michigan.
I don't care what you deal with. I deal with having to defend ND against people who let their envy speak instead of their reason. So we both face similar struggles.
Go Irish.
TE
posted on October 31, 2007 5:30 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
Notre Lame, Alabama's Big City Cousin...
Better educated, well heeled, obviously well cultured, but like their cousin in the Deep South, firmly entrenched with their sense of entitltement and fear of the theft of their Golden Goose...and unrepentant for laying so many nasty eggs on the national stage...
As long as the check clears, eh Domers?
Jeff in San Diego said:
posted on October 31, 2007 5:39 PM — 76.212.140.27 — link — abuse?
Tigers fan,
I'm sorry for your inferiority.
You cannot debate except a dubious streak that when all is said and done, simply counts in the loss column. A column in which LSU has 100+ more losses then ND, yet have played five fewer football seasons.
Kbyrnes said:
posted on October 31, 2007 5:48 PM — 24.14.253.159 — link — abuse?
The best answer to the original post by Kevin Donahue:
Every school in a BCS conference that sends a team to a BCS bowl will get similar money, even if that school's team doesn't go to a bowl.
So where's the headline: "Duke to rake in $1 million+ from BCS this year"?
As well as: NC State, North Carolina, Minnesota, Iowa, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Nebraska, Baylor, Iowa State, Stanford, Arizona, Washington State, Washington, Ole Miss...and a lot of other teams from the 6 BCS conferences that will also share the wealth.
The BCS deal basically put ND on a similar compensation footing to the conferences.
TE
posted on October 31, 2007 5:50 PM — 204.68.245.11 — link — abuse? said:
Jeff,
When you play our sister's of the poor & infirmed, going up against the Service Acadamies every single year, and not facing conference opponents in the modern era, it's easy to lean on your past glories...
You're like that early onset dementia addled uncle that doesn't get brought out except for Holidays when everyone gets together for the first time since last year...
Grandpa starts p!ssing in his cup and drinking it, and your cousin brings him to the bedroom to get him "his meds"...Everyone kinda stares around and says, "What the $%@$ are we gonna do about Grandpa? Has anyone been checking up on him? How is he not in a home yet?"
Poor guy...He doesn't even realize how bad its gotten, or how bad he's slipped...He lives in his mind and swims in his memories more than he realizes what a true joke his life's become...
Jeff in San Diego said:
posted on October 31, 2007 6:11 PM — 76.212.140.27 — link — abuse?
TE,
You are truly delusional. Keep telling your cute little stories.
2007 schedule strength:
ND continually plays one of the toughest schedules in the country.
You might recognize some of the following teams:
Middle Tennessee
Tulane
LA-Lafayette
North Texas
Appalachian State
Troy
Western Illinois
LA-Monroe
La-Tech
Citadel
Miami (OH)Interesting how you hold these teams in higher regard than Air Force, Army or Navy.
I wouldn't expect any less from you because you seem to have no problem letting facts get in the way.
Kbyrnes said:
posted on October 31, 2007 6:49 PM — 24.14.253.159 — link — abuse?
#68,
"...not facing conference opponents..."?
BFD. Just about every team we play is in a conference. When's the last time your team played USC, Michigan, and Penn State in the same season? What kind of sensible point are you trying to make?
Sorry...broke my own rule: don't try to rationalize the irrational.
Kayo said:
posted on October 31, 2007 7:18 PM — 67.177.112.170 — link — abuse?
Which way do you folks want it?
People used to complain about ND getting to keep a full share of BCS money when it makes one of the BCS bowls. Finally the other BCS members negotiated a deal that made ND look like everyone else, i.e. ND got a lesser payout that is supposed to compare to what a conference champion gets after splitting the payout with the other members of the conference. In exchange, ND receives an annual payment comparable to a conference member's share when it doesn't make a BCS bowl.
It used to be all or nothing with ND. People didn't like it when "all" meant $15 million give or take. They got their way, and now they want to bitch about the current arrangement. The whiners are either uninformed or they just like to complain. Neither speaks well of them.
posted on October 31, 2007 7:22 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Irishburgh #53: What part of my post was screaming injustice? Perhaps it was the following passage: "I'm a free market kind of guy. Can't say I blame ND for not ducking when money is thrown at them."
PhillyIrish #54: I'm not saying that it wouldn't cause some minor teams a little discomfort at first after dropping ND. Any of the big boys could easily fill in another big name opponent. But face it, you only play two big names year end, year out: USC and Michigan State. You never play Ohio State and you've played Georgia Tech more times historically than you have Michigan. Besides, my plan isn't blackballing as much as it is 'negative reinforcement'.
Jeff in SD #59: You nailed it about these bowls. I've often said that the big bowls paint themselves into a corner with these conference alignments, ESPECIALLY the Rose Bowl. They should all be open, like they are when it's their turn to host the BCS championship. Question for you, since you're obviously knowledgeable about the bowls: Notre Dame went to the Rose Bowl in 1925 then didn't attend another bowl game until 1970. Why? No ND fan has ever been able to answer that question.
Kbyrnes #61: "...or when ND wanted to join the Big Ten but was rejected." Please back that statement up with any sort of footnote for me, please, or other notation, just so I know it didn't come out of the side of your mouth.
Also, "Whine on". I know the USC fight song is called 'Fight On'. Is that the name of the ND tune, 'Whine on'?
Seriously, I'm glad to see ND fans back on here. Philly Irish, I'll nominate you as point man for the chief defender of the Irish faith on fanblogs. You seem like you know what the hell you're talking about.
posted on October 31, 2007 7:34 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Jeff in SD: "2007 schedule strength: ND #17,
LSU #44" Where did this come from? After LSU has played the following top 15 teams: VATech, Florida, Kentucky, Auburn, South Carolina, and soon to be Alabama, plus a possible SEC title game?Even if some whack computer is currently reading it that way, check it again in January.
Kbyrnes said:
posted on October 31, 2007 9:13 PM — 24.14.253.159 — link — abuse?
#74, War Eagle,
I'm pleased to cure your lack of knowledge.
1896: ND applied to join the Western Conference, which was the predecessor to the Big 10. The WC consisted of Chicago, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinoiis, Northwestern, Purdue, and Michigan. Result: Application denied.
1908: ND applies again. Result: Application denied.
1913: ND applies again. Result: Application denied.
1919: The Detroit Free Press writes that Notre Dame's attempts "to enter that holy of holies, the Western Conference" were always "snubbed" even though "everything the Big 10 requires within its circle is obligatory at the South Bend institution." Ralston Goss, DFP, 12/3/1919.
1926: ND applies again, and puts on a full-pressure project to lobby individual school presidents for admission. In the meantime, Michigan lobbies against ND. Result: Application denied.
These are facts: 5 applications, 5 denials. There are a number of secondary sources for this information, including "Shake Down the Thunder," by Murray Sperber, who is a professor at Indiana University.
I wasn't talking out of the side of my mouth, as you implied. Or...were you subconsciously referring to your own style?
cbill219 said:
posted on October 31, 2007 9:22 PM — 76.223.108.94 — link — abuse?
War Eagle
I'm new to the thread, but figured I'd chime in.
Michigan and OSU blackballed ND for decades from the 1920's through the 1970's. That's why games between the schools rarely show up.
On a related note, ND was eager to join the Big Ten for decades (again the 20's and beyond), but OSU and Michigan actively campaigned against it, encouraging fellow Big 10 schools to boycott the Irish.
The irony is that this boycott is the very reason why ND had to go out and schedule teams across the country, thus developing its unique national fan base.
By the time the Big 10 came back around in the 90's, ND was in a position to say thanks, but no thanks. Think of it like the high school cheerleader who ignores the nerd in school only to seek his company after he's become something. By that time, he has no need.
Regarding the Rose Bowl, ND had a self-imposed bowl ban that ran from the late 20's through the the late 50's or early 60's (my exact years may be off, but you get the point). By the time ND started going to bowls again, tie-ins had started to blossom.
And before anyone goes ballistic about ND ignoring bowls, remember that until the 70's, they were more exhibition than competition. Most final polls were released prior to bowl games meaning that participation was very much an "extra."
Cane Mutiny
posted on October 31, 2007 9:43 PM — 76.109.86.102 — link — abuse? said:
Haha! Look at that, the Irish have woken up! Good thing it's not that IrishJT dude, he was a dumbass. At least these guys come with some facts... not necessarily good ones, but they try.
The strength of schedule guy: Where are you getting those SOS rankings? Who put ND at #17 and LSU at #44? Musta been in the preseason. ND plays some decent opposition... but Michigan, USC, UCLA, Michigan State, Georgia Tech, etc. are all nice names, but none of them are having good years. Boston College has been the only really good opponent ND has faced...and it's debatable how good they really are. Oh, and ND lost big, too...
LSU faces the normal sub-par OOC slate for an SEC team, but their SEC schedule is much more difficult than Notre Dame's schedule. First of all, they did break the mold of the SEC by scheduling Virginia Tech - who is right around as good as Boston College, Notre Dame's best opponent. On top of that, they play the likes of Florida, Auburn, Kentucky, Alabama, etc.- you can't argue in any way that these teams are worse than USC, UCLA, Michigan...
Don't come with bogus facts if you're gonna try to support your team.
cbill219 said:
posted on October 31, 2007 9:59 PM — 76.223.108.94 — link — abuse?
http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/cfsend.htm
This link is to Jeff Sagarin's current rankings, including schedule rank. You'll have to scroll down to see ND at #92, but you'll note their schedule difficulty as of Oct. 28th. (If you trust this post, ND is #1 and LSU is #16.)
www.cbssportsline.com has ND's sos at #1 and LSU at #12.
Clearly both schools' sos ranks will fall in the coming weeks (weaker teams on the horizon), but these numbers seem to put things in perspective.
Of course, this isn't to say that ND is anywhere near as good as LSU, but only to prove that the schedule is as tough as any in the country - especially leading up to the 1-7 record.
Big Tide said:
posted on October 31, 2007 10:43 PM — 12.208.88.211 — link — abuse?
I agree with War Eagle Atlanta about having some Irish blood on the blog but CBill219, Kbyrnes, Jeff In San Diego, etc. all, you guys better get ready for the typical come backs like "leather helmet stats." Here's the point guys. There is a difference in having a great team or a great season and having a GREAT PROGRAM. Notre Dame has a GREAT PROGRAM. Does that mean they get a disproportionate share of attention and money - yes. Is that fair? Probably. The comment about being born on third was great - I laughed out loud! But remember, somebody had to set up shop on third base for the kid to get born there. Rich people have a ton of advantages, but someone had to make all that money in the first place, right?
Kbyrnes said:
posted on October 31, 2007 10:44 PM — 24.14.253.159 — link — abuse?
#80, OU-Ron,
Yes, it's a sad fact. Given that ND had hardly started playing football, had no NBC contract, and no BCS deal, why do you think this Catholic university was rejected by its Midwestern neighbors? Gives you food for thought, doesn't it?
#79, Cane Mutiny,
Here's the latest Sagarin SOS ratings:
LSU: 16
ND: 1I leave it to you to research the other ratings services used by BCS (Billingsley, et al.).
Kbyrnes said:
posted on October 31, 2007 10:46 PM — 24.14.253.159 — link — abuse?
#82, Cane,
I didn't just toss out 1926. It was a response to an underinformed poster who thought I'd made up the fact that ND had tried to join the Big 10 and had been rejected. But apparently you and your friends like to take comments out of context.
Zac said:
posted on October 31, 2007 10:51 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?
I'm Catholic. Yet, I am astounded by what I'm reading here. While it's been a most interesting debate, there are a few points which can not be argued.
All teams affiliated with a conference benefit through revenue sharing, when one or more of their teams go to bowls, especially BCS bowls.
ND earns (Yes, I said EARNS.) basically the same kind of money via clever negotiation, given they have a product to sell, and it is a sellable product. In biblical terms, they're the David; the rest of the world is the Goliath. People eat that alive. Love or hate the Irish, you watch em because, one way or another, you're curious of the outcome.
Now, I actually don't have a problem with ND's ability to sell a product to the BCS through tough negotiation. There is nothing dishonorable in this. Here's where I have a problem, and last year is a good example.
At the end of the 2006 regular season, WI was ranked 7th. Since OSU was ranked 1st, and MI was ranked (Was it 3rd or 4th?), they went to the BCS; WI settled for a lesser bowl. Now, I realize that's the rules (currently); only 2 teams/conference can go to a BCS bowl. That rule is not fair. This is not my humble opinion; this is fact. How in the name of anything honorable do you punish a team and its conference when both are successful?!? There aren't enough explicative's in a dozen languages to berate such stupidity.
ND, having been ranked 11th, can't be blamed for benefiting from the rule. But, lets face it; it is arguable ND didn't earn going to that bowl; not to mention they have tie-ins to other bowls that would normally take the #2 or #3 team from a conference unless ND was bowl eligible but didn't qualify for the BCS. This is what happens when you have a money maker.
Here's what I find most frustrating. ND doesn't need the money. I've said this in other threads. ND is THE flag-ship university of the Catholic Church. They are not going to go without. Not only do they have the largest Booster organization, let alone the greatest fan base in the history of man-kind, they are backed by the richest organization on this planet. Where ND is concerned, it neither needs to be nor should it be about the money. ND should be above that. Instead, they act as greedy as any of them out there, and absolutely unwilling to share or to fully take part.
I don't care if ND ever joins a conference. There's no dishonor in that either. But, they at least should be setting a better example. Just a thought.
Kbyrnes said:
posted on October 31, 2007 11:37 PM — 24.14.253.159 — link — abuse?
#86, Zac,
I agree with your points regarding the sad plight of Wisconsin in '06, but those were the rules of the game at the time. Part of the problem is that the bowl system is still heavily influenced by its origins, i.e., to be a fan-pleasing, money-making addendum to the regular season. Logic and fairness go out the window. Should WI, instead of ND, have played LSU? I wish!
I must disagree with your feeling that "ND doesn't need the money." I am making an educated guess that there's no financial pipeline from Vatican City to ND. EVERY institution of higher learning needs money...even Harvard. And unlike most schools, at ND, the athletic program helps significantly to pay for the general operations of the school, and not just the athletic program itself.
I must admit, having a degree from the U of Chicago as well as ND, that I'd find it oddly amusing if President Jenkins of ND decided to emulate President Robert Maynard Hutchins, who in the 1930's did away with the Chicago football program entirely, deeming it an unsuitable enterprise for an institution of higher learning.
Of course, the Maroons were getting beaten to a pulp in those years...
Irish_in_GA said:
posted on November 1, 2007 12:02 PM — 129.54.8.46 — link — abuse?
The Irish lost out on $10 million last year due to this new agreement.
That money, by the new agreement is shared by the 6 BCS conferences.
ND is a MEMBER of the BCS, the same as any other BCS school. All the agreement did was make it the same for ND as any other BCS school.
If you don't like the agreement, I'm sure that we would be happy to go back to getting the full conference share.
In regards to the lower conferences not getting any money, I believe that I heard somewhere that they actually get something like 9% of the money. Not a whole lot for sure, but they are not a BCS MEMBER.
posted on November 1, 2007 12:18 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Kbyrnes: I simply requested some basis for your statement. Quite a few people on here just make up stuff, or parrott the opinions of their fellow homers. Thanks for the history lesson. Perhaps there is something to this Catholic discrimination angle, being that ND was denied immediately after the formation of the Western Conference. Perhaps ND should have applied to the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference at the time. They let everyone in--45 schools at one time.
cBill219: I appreciate the input. Obviously, ND's bowl ban was self-imposed--they certainly had desreving teams over the years. I was just curious the specific reason.
Yes, most people don't know the history of the bowl games, and fewer still know that the AP poll ranked teams before the bowls up until the mid 1960s and the UPI did it until the late 1970s.
Ok, then, Irish fans. Who wants to talk about national chmapionships next? You have 8 legitimate ones. Who wants to debate?
M GO BLUE said:
posted on November 1, 2007 12:40 PM — 216.46.213.208 — link — abuse?
#54- philly irish - "The benefit that USC, Michigan and Boston College get from playing Notre Dame".........duh......it always helps recruiting when we destroy Notre Dame.
Just remember that Michigan taught the Irish how to play football, your stadium is a smaller replica of the Big House, and we hold the lead in our rivalry.....no matter how you slice it, ND is still second fiddle to the Wolverines to the North.
Go Blue
TampaGator said:
posted on November 1, 2007 1:14 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
KByrnes/@#87:
Allow me to confirm your educated guess: no money flows from Vatican to Notre Dame. ND, like most every Catholic institution, is self-sustaining (though institutions within a given diocese may benefit from the diocesan general fund, the diocese is still self-sustaining).
As I undertand it, money flows in exactly one direction with the Vat: in.
GO GATORS!!Jeff in San Diego said:
posted on November 1, 2007 1:25 PM — 192.207.114.20 — link — abuse?
#90,
""The benefit that USC, Michigan and Boston College get from playing Notre Dame".........duh......it always helps recruiting when we destroy Notre Dame.
Just remember that Michigan taught the Irish how to play football, your stadium is a smaller replica of the Big House, and we hold the lead in our rivalry.....no matter how you slice it, ND is still second fiddle to the Wolverines to the North."
ND is 1-7, yet is #1 in recruiting on both Rivals & Scout. Michigan 'destroyed' ND this year, yet is 10th in both rankings. Hmmmmm...
It's pointless debating about the two stadiums. You're stretching here. Your holds more people...that's about it.
Yes, you hold the series lead at 20-14-1. Yet, eight of those wins predated 1909, when as you noted, Michigan was TEACHING ND THE GAME OF FOOTBALL.
The difference in all-time winning percentage is one-thousandth of a point. ND held a commanding lead over Michigan in that category until the Davieham era. Yes, Michigan holds the lead...by .001.
Sure, it does matter how you slice it. Because you conveniently leave out titles, Heismans, All-Americans, etc.
Speaking of titles, I'm pretty sure Michigan State has more consensus AP titles than Michigan does. So maybe you should worry about being better than Sparty instead of the Irish.
gatorstud said:
posted on November 1, 2007 2:10 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
can we please stop with the ranking of recruitings until the season ends..... talking about recruiting numbers in the middle of the season is just plain stupid...and it makes you look like your reaching and grasping for success where there isn't any....
go gators...and hokies
FanoftheGame said:
posted on November 1, 2007 2:26 PM — 198.211.223.194 — link — abuse?
It's too bad that the BCS has diluted such a great game. Power Rankings mean very little to an organization concerned only with "Earning Power" Rankings. As fans, we look forward to projected matchups between the nations best teams. What we usually end up getting are matchups based on projected earnings. There is no doubt that Ntre Ame (No "O" or "D" in Southbend anymore)has a rich history in college football. Now it seems as though the Irish have traded that in for having a history of gettng rich. To me, it doesn't really matter if the BCS wins, or The Irish win when it comes to who gets more money. In the end, its less about college football and more about the $$$ anyway. Maybe the Irish should get on the Forbes blog rather the Fanblogs, until they start playing football again. Every conversation about Nrte Ame turn to money anyway. Don't they talk about football anymore?
FromVT said:
posted on November 1, 2007 2:35 PM — 76.30.254.215 — link — abuse?
All this bs about recruiting class is ridiculous, no different than how every #1 pick in the NFL is always a great player. We know that they are supposed to be, but that is just not the case. I live in TExas so I hear my UT and A&M friends talk about recruiting class plenty, and your ranking on Rivals, ect... is certainly not gospel, it is only an indication that your team is getting some good young players. Geez, people gets so jacked about recruiting class ranking.
M GO BLUE said:
posted on November 1, 2007 3:02 PM — 216.46.213.208 — link — abuse?
Jeff in San Diego.........Spartans???
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!An Irish fan telling me to worry about the Spartans!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Try on "Spartan stadium south bend" !!! ND has dropped 6 consecutive home games to the Spartans while Michigan has won 5 straight over the Spartans..............so maybe the Spartans will win.......it's about time.
posted on November 1, 2007 3:06 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
TampaGator @92: "As I undertand it, money flows in exactly one direction with the Vat: in." Right on!
Kbyrnes: Harvard has an endowment of about $25B. Don't think that they're hurting for $$$$.
Anyone know why Notre Dame won't play Ohio State still?
Spartacus
posted on November 1, 2007 3:47 PM — 72.25.84.228 — link — abuse? said:
The benifits of playing Notre Dame this year were not any better than playing any MAC team. Notre Dame has cost many teams who have played them millions of dollars in lower BCS rankings this year. In fact, it is a detriment to have had Notre Dame on your schedule this year. I don't understand at all how that school has wangled that deal from the BCS anyway. It's just the joke to end all jokes.
Tommie Trojan
Cane Mutiny
posted on November 1, 2007 4:03 PM — 65.12.247.141 — link — abuse? said:
#85, Kbyrnes:
How did I take what you said out of context? You cited instances from 1896 through 1926 to prove that Notre Dame has tried to join the Big 11... and honestly, nobody cares what happened in the leather helmet years, buddy. What your post really suggests isn't that ND has tried to join a conference, but that it hasn't tried to join one since 1926... Just some advice, never use facts from over 60 years ago to support any argument...anything from that time period has nothing to do with anything we're talking about here in this thread.
By the way, the University of Miami was founded in 1926. Funny how we found a way to get into a conference...
cbill219 said:
posted on November 1, 2007 4:20 PM — 152.140.57.69 — link — abuse?
#100 Cane:
Maybe I shouldn't speak for Kbyrnes, but I can't resist.
What happened over a 30-year period at the beginning of the century has everything to do with present day. ND's pursuit of a national scheudle and establishment as an independent was a direct outcome of the Big Ten's unwillingness to allow entrance. Instead of continuing on that path of futility, ND was proactive in seeking out alternate solutions - primarily national scheduling. In the ensuing years ND, like many schools, flourished as an independent. It wasn't until the late 80's that conference affiliation began to mean much (for football bowl games and basketball in general), but by then ND had every reason to remain independent.
The source of this conversation (BCS money) proves that fact. Why are you so adamant that ND join a conference when the school can function just fine without one?
And feel free to point to this season's poor record, but don't forget that the school played in BCS bowls the last two years (howeverly undeservedly it may have been). If this year becomes the trend, then I'm sure many diehard domers will be looking for how to fix the problem, including the possibility of joining a conference. However, my guess is that ND will continue to do fine on its own.
posted on November 1, 2007 4:37 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
cbill219 #100: I can't resist answering this one. "Why are you so adamant that ND join a conference when the school can function just fine without one?"
The current perception of ND is that they skate through inferior competition to make it to a bowl game, then get blown out--proving that they didn't belong in the first place. Is perception reality? Let's look and see:
43 straight wins over Navy. Maybe they're masochists, who knows. Just put a bullet in their head and end their misery. Picking on a service academy doesn't win a lot of points with anyone--admit it.
5 games with Ohio State in 120 years, 34 with Michigan. Why don't you play the big boys on the block more often? Offer to play them and then publicize the hell out of it if they refuse.
Are other people envious of ND owning NBC? Sure they are. But nothing lasts forever. If ratings fall, kiss that contract goodbye, along with the independent status, and play with the rest of the great unwashed...
Cane Mutiny
posted on November 1, 2007 4:45 PM — 65.12.247.141 — said:
OU-Ron
said:
posted on October 29, 2007 8:07 PM — 72.198.24.199 — link — abuse?This is complete and total BS