December 5, 2006
Ohio State beats Florida 76% of the time
The boys at AccuScore have run the BCS National Championship Game through their computers 1,000 times, finding that Ohio State beat Florida 76% of the time in simulations.
AccuScore, whose simulations are already in use on several big time sites (CBS Sportsline, Yahoo, & some ESPN sites, for example), takes a full year's worth of games in building their simulations, plus factors such as neutral field, favorite/underdog status and other variables in making running their tests.
AccuScore also ran a simulated BCS playoff game between Florida and Michigan. Their computers found that the results to be statistically consistent with the BCS pairings - Florida beat Michigan 54% of the time. The AccuScore simulation essentially validated the BCS match-up.
But -- let's face it -- we all know that Ohio State is going to whip up on Florida, right?
Not so fast my friend, says noted Florida blogger GatorPilot at Orange and Blue Hue & in the Fanblogs comments).
Ryan says the Florida Gators can and will beat the Buckeyes.
I know what you're thinking."Ohio State can move the ball, Ferg. They put up a lot of yards. Florida can't do that."
Is that so? Let's see what the NCAA stats say:
Ohio State total offense average: 409.75 yards
Florida total offense average: 398.08 yards."Quarterbacks," you're thinking. "Troy Smith is better."
Ohio State passing efficiency: 66.56%, 165.93
Florida passing efficiency: 63.26%, 151.90 rating"Rushing," you say.
Ohio State rushing offense average: 180.08 yards per game
Florida rushing offense average: 160.31 yards per gameWhat makes those numbers truly remarkable is that while they're essentially pretty even, Florida does it against the nation's toughest defenses, while Ohio State does it against teams like Northern Illinois, Cincinatti, Indiana and Bowling Green.
AccuScore and the science of football say Ohio State. Ryan and the Gator Nation say no way - it's Florida. So, what say you? Who's right?
NOTE: Earlier today we ran an inaccurate post on much the same premise. That post has since been removed. I apologize for screwing it up. [MORE]
Comments:
Pope Benedict said:
posted on December 5, 2006 3:00 PM — 12.43.234.14 — link — abuse?
What was the Accuscore percentage of UCLA beating USC? The BCS has created a monster with everyone trying to come up with a new computerized ways to predict the outcomes of football games. Is there really any better way than settling this on the field?
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 5, 2006 3:01 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Kevin,
Disregard my previous blog on the subject. What I'd like to know is what is the "average point differential" in all of those simulated games? What are we talkin' about? Two points? Eight point? I see that the "oddsmakers" want to open with around eight. Interesting that USC opens up favored over Michigan by 1 1/2. So, what is the differential that we're talkin about? Does one bounce of the ball change the outcome? Or, is Ohio State totally dominate in these comparisons?
Tommie T
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 5, 2006 3:05 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Pope:
Actually, most people understand that I use my PlayStation2 to compile simulated outcomes, and it's workin' out real good. Difference is: we got a certified OC at the controls and not Lane Kiffen. So, the results tend to be a little skewed. It probably is best to settle it on the field.
Tommie T
Marko said:
posted on December 5, 2006 3:17 PM — 70.127.205.96 — link — abuse?
That doesnt take into account that the SEC IS OVERRATED. What defense does Tennessee, Vandy, Western North Central Southwest Carolina have?
Fact is, Ohio State will win and win big. When OSU is #1 and Michigan #2 and Wisconsin #3 or 4, will the SEC say they are the best conference in College Football? or are they still going to drink their moonshine and remain in a state of denial of their conference fading?
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 5, 2006 3:51 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Cane_Nation:
No way! I don't want Kiffen gone. The kid's in his 2nd year. He's done a great job. That game got him by surprise. The coaching staff needs to understand what the fan base sees. It's all over town. Yes, some want his head. Not me. The OL coach Ruel is complicit. Utimately, coach Carroll, is accountable. They'll get our opinion and make the changes that are required. I have no doubt. I think the coaches are relying to much on talent and not enough X's and O's. They'll get back to it. Carroll will step in and help Kiffen get the gameplan ready for Michigan. Don't be surprised to see Michigan blown out. Chauncey Washington should be healthy and we'll be aable to slam it back up the middle. We'll have RB Emmanuel Moody, our fastest back, healthy also. Gable is the 3rd string RB. FB Stanley Havili should also be available for this game. It is gonna be a different Trojan team show up. People forget - the PAC10 is a very good conference with many good teams. It's not like USC lost to "the University of Phoenix". But, Michigan almost did and Ohio State almost lost to Illinois. So, anything can happen. I look for USC to bounce back.
Marko:
The line I'm lookin' at says USC by 1 1/2. I'm surprised that it isn't seven with the homefield figured in.
Tommie T
Cane_Nation said:
posted on December 5, 2006 4:19 PM — 205.166.218.38 — link — abuse?
Tommie,
They'd better get back to X's and O's. Talent alone can't win in college football anymore. Everyone has athletes now. I'm not a fan of USC but I'm keeping a close eye to see how their progression goes. I know you're tired of hearing it, but the progression from 2003 forward is eerily familiar.FanoftheGame said:
posted on December 5, 2006 4:30 PM — 12.43.234.14 — link — abuse?
There is way too much use of the term "OVERRATED", as it pertains to conferences, on this blog. Whether you believe a conference to be overrated or not, its hard to point out its "Overrated" status, when the polls don't back it up their "overrating". Way too much unjustified hating. But then again, ignorance breeds hate.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 5, 2006 4:33 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Marko:
My bad! Yahoo has the odds all turned around again. It's not the 1st time. I thought it strange that they had FSU over UCLA by 5 1/2. Rechecked it on FoxNews and it is Michigan favored by 1 1/2. That's less than a bounce of the ball BTW.
Tommie T
Chris said:
posted on December 5, 2006 5:46 PM — 24.24.114.56 — link — abuse?
Marko..You might want to check your stats real quick.
The treee teams you mentioned in your post are not ranked in that order (1, 3 and 7 consecutivly) and that's all you have in the top 20. 3 teams. But hey..The Big East has 3 teams as well. Louisville, Rutgers and W. Virginia...so you can at least say you have a conference that strong.The SEC? 5! Florida, LSU, Auburn, Arkansas and Tennessee.
No to let you compare...
Florida has a shot at the national title. You don't.
LSU won the conference championship. You didn't play.
Arkansas has a potential Heisman runner for 2007. Again not you.
Tennessee had a rough year, but they still have a championship ring with a little less rust on it than you.Now before you go showing ignorance for college football, check up on some things. I know Michigan fans are intense. I'm an Alabama fan and I'm still waving my "6-6 with no head coach in sight" flag outside of my house...but seriously?!
M GO BLUE said:
posted on December 5, 2006 7:17 PM — 216.46.209.148 — link — abuse?
MICHIGAN VS USC - ROSEBOWL!
Why are people still talking about Michigan in the championship?
SHUT UP! pleeaasse!
The bottom 75% of the Big Ten is horrible this year,while I will say the top 4 in the Big Ten are just as strong as the top 4 of the SEC,and time has proven that the Big Ten and the SEC are always tough competition for each other!
Ohio State,has won their last four BCS bowls in the last five years,so I guess I will pick Ohio State by 14.
Florida's tough schedule? Was Wisconsin supposed to beat Auburn last year? Was West Virginia supposed to beat Georgia?
The SEC may be a little better top to bottom,but the top is no better than the top of any other conference.Go Blue!
tiger-ja said:
posted on December 5, 2006 7:26 PM — 67.33.107.207 — link — abuse?
Heres a simulation : The Great USC - UCLA GAME How many computers programs did UCLA send to the garage sale that day. It's just like my old high school coach used to say the only point spread that matters is the one on the board at the end of the game proving over and over again that on any givin day anyone can be beaten no matter what your ranking. All that said OSU is a great team, but aww - you know!
Chris said:
posted on December 5, 2006 11:58 PM — 24.24.114.56 — link — abuse?
I'm with you M GO BLUE. The top in the conference is there for a reason.
That's why I would love to see a playoff schedule. (Except for the fact that it would kill our players)
Imagine if you will kids...
Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Wake Forrest, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Lousiville, Rutgers, West Virginia, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Notre Dame, USC, California, Florida, Arkansas and LSU all in a shot for the title. (Yes I kept some of the smaller conferences out. A 64 team bracket is stupid....Actually it's what we have now.All hail the "We won 6 games bowl(s)!"
Jake Fegan said:
posted on December 6, 2006 12:18 AM — 68.185.100.17 — link — abuse?
As a huge Buckeye fan, my only fear is the Heisman curse.
Troy Smith has been such a big gamer, though, I can't imagine him not being at peak performance for Florida.
Conversely, Chris Leak has made some big plays this year, but has also made some big mistakes. I think he's a class act and I like him, but, again, I have seen him make some turnovers that were just ugly.
If OSU can neutralize Harvin, it will be a Buckeye Bashing. Some key special teams plays and big pa\lay from Harvin could coax a Gator victory.
It also should be pointed out that big favorites have a history of losing in the title game:
1998-1999: Tennessee over Florida State
2002-2003: Ohio State over Miami
2003-2004: LSU over Oklahoma
2004-2005: Texas over USC (although USC wasn't exactly a big favorite)Eight national title games, four upsets. I take nothing for granted, and I hope Heisman Troy and Coach Tressel do not either.
I think I would have preferred a rematch with Michigan because Troy Smith absolutely owns them.
Tipp said:
posted on December 6, 2006 11:04 AM — 68.114.23.128 — link — abuse?
Jake, Florida beating OSU will not be an upset. It will be a realization for the Big Ten. Michigan and OSU needs to play Auburn, Florida, Tennessee and LSU once a year...not Ball state and the other Junior college calibur teams.
Brumsky said:
posted on December 6, 2006 12:09 PM — 165.139.246.251 — link — abuse?
Yea Ohio State had an easier schedule, but it's the big ten conference anythin can happen on any given Saturday, and plus the Buckeyes averaged over 41 points per game and only gave up an average of 10.4 points per game so with their schedule they had they dominated everyone on that schedule besides Michigan and a fluke with Illinois. But a wins a win and the Buckeyes are undefeated
gato(RT) said:
posted on December 6, 2006 2:04 PM — 152.163.100.196 — link — abuse?
Maybe it is that I have pretty much only watched the UF games but I believe that Chris Leak, Dallas Baker, Percy Harvin, and the rest of the boys are gonna mop up!
Sorry Troy Smith, and that line backer guy who won the award!
Perry said:
posted on December 6, 2006 4:34 PM — 69.216.16.165 — link — abuse?
I've watched a lot of good teams in my not so young life. This Ohio State squad seems to me to be right up there because they play as a team and do not make mistakes. The current Florida squad does not seem to be in the same league. Can Florida win? That's why they play the game. Will Florida win? Not likely.
True_FSU said:
posted on December 6, 2006 4:50 PM — 168.82.56.100 — link — abuse?
dawgfan, the big 10 is only 11 teams and plays like an 8 team conference, so 7 conference games (maybe 8 but I don't think so). No championship game, these have long been heralded as doing more harm then good and the Big 10 has had every opprotunity to expand to 12 but has avoided it. Notre Dame (don't quote me) I heard offered to join if the league would have a championship game (for revenue purposes to be sure).
Jake Fegan said:
posted on December 6, 2006 7:56 PM — 68.185.100.17 — link — abuse?
Sorry, Tipp (post #25) -- asserting that a Florida win would not be an upset is absurd and borne of bias.
I would never claim, even as a Buckeye fan, that OSU's win over Miami "was not an upset." I knew Ohio State could win and hoped that they would. Just like I know that Florida could win this year, but it would certainly qualify as an upset.
Tipp said:
posted on December 6, 2006 9:20 PM — 68.114.23.128 — link — abuse?
Jake, Florida beating OSU would not be an upset. Once Florida beats OSU, many experts will be on the side that they miscaculated Florida and the SEC is the strongest conference top to bottom..doesnt mean one team in the Big ten isnt better but when you have 9 bowl teams in the conference...that speaks for itself...Florida beat 9 out of 10 bowl teams this year...12 wins and one loss to a team that had questionable calls during the game. Leaks hand was going forward during that pass on the goal line...however a loss is a loss. but if you want to call it an upset...so be it...I will call it just another win and a great season for the Gators.
goodolnuma5 said:
posted on December 6, 2006 9:24 PM — 24.208.149.244 — link — abuse?
Thank God they have to play. I cant stand all this statistical crap. Oh yeah post #25, have you seen Aubs OCC sched? Flas divII opp? LSUs OCC? Look, everybody (except USC) has cupcakes on its sched. Its only the overbearing SEC fan that claims everyone needs to play the SEC. How come you guys never travel away from the comforts of home? Sure Tenn, Aub, Ark(old SWC) might, the rest of yall jes waits til conference play! Too bad no one else can do that. But the great equalizer is the game itself. So when ND drops Tenn, or SoCal drops 40 or 50 on Ark+Aub, that speaks for itself.
volstrike3 said:
posted on December 6, 2006 9:45 PM — 216.103.178.34 — link — abuse?
Perry,
OSU doen't make mistakes. LOL. They could not even hike the ball to the quarterback agaist Michigan. They turned the ball over 3 times in the second half against the only decent defense they played agaist. We will see how Troy smith does when he is running for his life in every other play. I am guessing he will look alot like Brady Quinn and Nate Longshore agaist USC. It is easy to pick a defense apart with you have 7 seconds to throw the ball. That is not going to happen against Florida.
Tipp said:
posted on December 6, 2006 10:28 PM — 68.114.23.128 — link — abuse?
GOOD..usc PLAY ark without mcfadden or there top ranked qb and ND without ainge...9 bowl teams in the SEC...enough said!! I wish I could be like Herbstreet and the rest of the "Experts...wrong most of the time and make alot of money"!
M GO BLUE said:
posted on December 7, 2006 1:13 PM — 216.46.210.179 — link — abuse?
Last season NOTRE DAME beat Tennessee.
West Virginia beat the SEC champs Georgia.
Wisconsin more than doubled Auburns score in the capital one bowl.
The last time Michigan had a bowl opponent they could beat,they were playing the Gators in Florida.
Two years ago in the Capital one bowl the Iowa hawkeyes beat LSU.
ummmmm sorry but the idea that the SEC is sooooo dominant is.....an idea that is only in peoples heads.
volstrike3 said:
posted on December 7, 2006 2:20 PM — 216.103.178.34 — link — abuse?
M GO BLUE,
SEC teams regularly win big games, we don't dwell on the few we lose. You have about a month and a half to talk crap until USC beats you like and rented mule and Florida upsets OSU. While we at it, Arkansas will run for about 300 yards on Wisconsin. Tennessee will thrash Penn State. All of this will happen and you will still be talking about last year.
Since you like living in the past, the last time Tennessee got a Big 10 team in a bowl game they smacked Michigan around 45-17 and you were favored in that game. Ouch.
TNGator said:
posted on December 7, 2006 3:43 PM — 4.154.59.226 — link — abuse?
Well hell, if the computer says it is so, then why should we even play the game? OSU has a very good team, but far from unbeatable. The Gators have yet to put together two complete halves and we could have easily blown half of the SEC schedule out, but let up. If the Bucks think we are going to roll over and die, that will not happen.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 7, 2006 9:30 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Too funny! I was checkin' to see if yahoo had fixed their betting lines yet, and they had, but I couldn't help but notice that most all the services had LSU vs Notre Dame "off the board". That is histerical to me. They just can't seem to make up their minds on how much Notre Dame might get "hammered" by - so they don't want to touch it. Ohio State is holding at a firm 8 point favorite while USC is closing the gap on Michigan, with Michigan getting the nod by 1 or in most places, it's dead even.
Tommie T
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 7, 2006 10:07 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Now it's Cap Cod Tom:
Real funny! Confucious also said, "never trust a man who lives in a fishing village and does not fish". Hey, but for reals, bet your happy ol' Schiano stayed on, aye? Bet you were bout ready to soil your diaper before that happened. What would "Muffy" have thought? No, I look for Rutgers to be real good now, and the BEast really needs another good team to step up and take those vacancies that were created by Miami and Virginia Tech leaving. I actually kinda liked Rutgers this year. They were very impressive on the "D".
Tommie T
Buckeyes87 said:
posted on December 7, 2006 10:12 PM — 76.2.91.183 — link — abuse?
No one can smack OSU's schedule. We go out of our way to schedule tough OOC. Texas anyone? We are finishing our contract with Washington next year then I believe USC, Miami, and Oklahoma come calling.
btw if Florida is so good why did they lose to Auburn? I don't care how many bowl teams you played. UofM, OSU, and Wisconsin could probably beat every team in the SEC.
I look forward to starting our victory with Greg Oden slamming a leather ball down J. Noah's face :D
Cap Cod Tom '84 said:
posted on December 7, 2006 10:30 PM — 24.218.208.81 — link — abuse?
TommieT:
You're right, Muffy would have been upset, but it's nothing an RU man couldn't lick and make all better.
Schiano can't leave Jersey for another college program because he's running an anti-export campaign. We'd never forgive him for that.
If he wants out, there are three options: one, leave honestly and be frank with the fans; two, go to a pro team; three, die in office. Fortunately for him, the alums will make donations to increase his salary. Unfortunately, this means he'll be barred from going to Penn State. Rutgers hates Penn State. They are arrogant winners.
The real question is...why would he anyway? We will make him a multi-millionare and his name will be legendary nationally in college football.
I forsee him becoming the Joe Pa of Jersey. Actually, he already is.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 7, 2006 11:07 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Cape Cod Tom:
Rutgers has been a great story for the past two years. Heck, they were almost as far down as my Trojans are right now. I think they ought to make one of those "Rudy" sequels or something. There has to be a hell of alot to that story. I mean really: that just isn't supposed to happen. That would be like some crappy azz team like Boise State winning sixty games in a row or something. I guess we'll find out if Boise is anywhere near for real also. Last time they stepped up to play "Big Boy Ball", Georgia beat em' so bad, that their chromosomes are gonna be hurtin' all their grandchildren for another seventy years. Who's Rutgers playin' anyway? I haven't looked, but I will be puttin' out all my asinine predictions, before Bowl time. Hey, I might even end up taking Rutgers.
Tommie T
Cap Cod Tom '84 said:
posted on December 7, 2006 11:37 PM — 24.218.208.81 — link — abuse?
Tommie Condom:
RU is playing Kansas State. Maybe they are 7-3.
I'd like to see Rutgers play Boise, Penn State, Wisconsin, Oragon State, or Hawaii.
The Texas Bowl might as well be the Toilet Bowl, as far as I'm concerned.
M GO BLUE said:
posted on December 8, 2006 11:46 AM — 216.46.213.188 — link — abuse?
Volstrike,I have R.E.S.P.E.C.T. for Tennessee,they have a great football program,just like Michigan,and Notre Dame,but I don't think the SEC is "god" like most of the fan's think.
I do not think the Big Ten,will win all three of the Big Ten vs SEC bowl matchups,because our conference was not all that great this year,DID EVERYONE HEAR ME? I SAID THE BIG TEN WAS NOT THE GREATEST THING THIS YEAR,but I am not sure if I have ever heard an SEC fan say that.
3-Tennessee vs Penn State - sorry state fans but your QB needs help. Tennessee by 14
2-Wisconsin vs Arkansas - toss up?
1-Florida vs Ohio State - I pick OSU by 14Duck said:
posted on December 8, 2006 12:10 PM — 64.122.40.19 — link — abuse?
Tipp (#37):
The author compared OSU's out of conference schedule to Florida's conference schedule. While the Big Ten might not be as strong as the SEC, OSU still played a much stronger out of conference schedule than Florida. Did the author forget that OSU played at Texas or against Michigan (both ranked #2)?
I do believe that both OSU and Michigan could have won the SEC title this year.
matt said:
posted on December 8, 2006 4:51 PM — 24.158.68.76 — link — abuse?
florida has the better defense, ohio state has the better offense. great matchup. ohio state has played one tough team all year (michigan). florida has played tough games week in and week out. they will be more prepared. i think for michigan fans, they just hope osu will kill florida. but in reality if florida were going to get killed, they wouldnt be there. i'll go ahead and take UF by 4. anyone remember the '02 buckeyes. OSU is certainly not dominant. florida has gotten it done all year, and i dont expect this game to be any different. LSU i think is a better overall team talentwise than OSU, and UF beat them handily. ARKY has a better offense for sure, and UF handled them also.
Duck said:
posted on December 8, 2006 6:51 PM — 64.122.40.19 — link — abuse?
matt:
OSU has the best scoring defense in the nation. Florida has a good defense, but OSU's could be considered just as good (cue the "SEC is better than the NFL" comments).
What is your standard for "good team?" Any team that plays Florida? Any team that associates itself with the SEC? Yeah, Vanderbilt, the Mississippi schools, and Kentucky are powerhouses. Before you retort with Illinois and the bottom dwellers of the Big Ten, answer the question logically. OSU played at Texas (#2) and completed the Big Ten schedule without a loss. The Big Ten, while not as strong as some years, is still a tough conference and has some solid teams.
If you're comparing Florida to the 2002 OSU team, you are right. Florida has grinded out some unimpressive wins just like that team did (except for OSU went undefeated). The 2006 OSU team is completely different. OSU has (for the most part) been very dominant in its wins.
LSU was a joke the week it played Florida and Arkansas has Darren McFadden and no one else on offense. If LSU had played 75% of its capabilities that week, Florida would not be in any national championship discussion right now.
Florida deserves a shot and it will get it (Florida is always the center of politics for some reason). If OSU plays like it did during the regular season, Florida won't be able to hang with the Buckeyes.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 8, 2006 10:59 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Jake Fegan:
We'll take it out a little further. Ohio State is 1-8-1 against the SEC since 1978 being outscored by 24.8-15.9 per game. In fact, Ohio State has lost eight straight Bowl games to the SEC and have never won a single game. This effort against the SEC is rivaling Notre Dame's Bowl futility against all comers. It does not look good for the Bucks - even though they are ranked #1. They just don't do well against team speed.
I'll be prepared to take on all that Buckeye "hate" when I return on Monday. So, spew forth.Tommie T
Tomcat said:
posted on December 9, 2006 1:50 AM — 69.153.81.120 — link — abuse?
Hey Tommie T I would really like to see Fla beat Ohio St and Boise beat OU, then that would throw a turd into the BCS fan.USC beats Mich, then whos #1 ?
Ohio St vs Florida
Interesting Stats
Fla 14 INTs 12 rushing TDs
Ohio St 5 INTs 20 rushing TDsTCU over NIU Rice over Troy Houston over SC
g8torman said:
posted on December 10, 2006 12:47 PM — 87.169.37.155 — link — abuse?
to all you gator haters out there! im sick and tired of all this b/s between sec and big 10. who cares about any of that crap. bottom line the game is set and then well find out whos who! so for now find something else to talk about.maybe you should talk whta youre gettin your mom,grandma,wife or misstress for christmas!!! get over it!
footballjoe said:
posted on December 10, 2006 1:37 PM — 24.9.135.116 — link — abuse?
The big ten had 6 teams out of the ten with losing records. the SEC had 3 out of 12 teams with losing records. The Big Ten is weak and will continue to be weak. Why are SEC teams OOC games not so tough? The SEC doesn't play six teams a year with losing records in our conference so easy has to come somewhere.
gatorstud said:
posted on December 11, 2006 11:10 AM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
let me ask you all this...should college football start the same as coll b-ball (acc-big ten challenge)..spend the first three weeks playing other conferences..like sec vs big ten....0r acc vs big 12 eliminate "cupcake "games all together... would it make the "BCS" a little more clearer in the end?????.....for me personally...i would like to see florida go up agsinst bob stoop's sooners or lloyd carr's wolverines....or even usc.....during the season.
"THE" BUCKEYE MARK said:
posted on December 12, 2006 6:55 AM — 70.62.161.114 — link — abuse?
gator stud that is a great idea !
How bout breaking it down something like this
1 open week to shcedule out of conference rivals division 1A only
each BCS conference has another BCS conference they play every year all teams rotating
ACC vs SEC
BIG 10 vs BIG EAST
PAC 10 vs BIG 12
the other two games the conferences they play rotate
All independants must play 1 game in each conference and a total of 11 BCS teams a year
independants make up the difference for leftover teams from difference in # of teams in conferences
Marko said:
posted on December 12, 2006 11:13 AM — 70.127.205.96 — link — abuse?
The problem with matching up big time teams during the season so often would be hurting BCS position. I mean theoretically, Boise State could go 12-0 again and Florida or Michigan could have 2 losses because of the outrageously hard schedule and be left out of the championship. Seriously now, would a Boise State be better than a 2 loss or even 3 loss USC, Michigan or Florida team? The only way to settle this crap is to take the conference winner and 2 at large bids and do a playoff.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 12, 2006 1:14 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Jake Fegan:
I do beleive that there is relevance to history. There is a reason that Ohio State has lost eight straight bowl games to SEC teams. Those would have all been some pretty good Buckeye teams also.
How bout these reasons for relevance to history. It is real cold in the northern states during December. Teams need to be properly prepared to play. Maybe Ohio State is at a disadvantage here. Brute Strength vs Team Speed. We all know that Buckeye teams are very physical. Maybe there is just a slight decrease in speed that SEC teams try to take advantage of. How about overall strength of competition? Maybe the SEC does consistantly play tougher competition week in and week out. How about recruiting bases? Maybe there are just alot more kids from the south to recruit than there is around Ohio-Penn. Besides, Penn State, Notre Dame and Michigan and such, Nebraska used to raid a whole lot of people from that neck of the woods. Maybe it was just that Penn State and Nebraska raided too many top recruits in the past. Maybe Ohio State beats Florida in spite of the trends this time - as Nebraska, Penn State and Notre Dame are all slightly down compared to other periods of time. But, I don't think that it is mere coincidence that Ohio State struggles with SEC teams.Tommie T
Marko said:
posted on December 12, 2006 1:45 PM — 70.127.205.96 — link — abuse?
Tommie T.,
Speed is not an issue here. Florida is quick, but tell me one Florida defensive player that can match up with Ted Ginn Jr. who was almost an Olympian sprinter?
I have always said that the SEC is far over-rated this year and will show it when the Big 10 wins over them in the bowl games.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 12, 2006 3:03 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Marko:
It is the consensus of just about all scouts and recruiting experts (Mel Kipper, etc.) that there is more team speed in the SEC. I'm only mentioning something that many consider to be a fact. When I look at recruited players, most of the blazing fast players (4.35 or faster), are in the south. Ted Ginn and Company will be going up against the fastest group of secondary players that they have seen all season. There probably won't be anyone in the Florida secondary that can't outrun Ginn. Ginn looks great because he has more speed than alot of Big-10 secondary people. He will look alot more pedestrian against Florida. If Ohio State has the edge - it might be in brute force up front on that OL. If they were to pound Wells about 30 times - I have no doubt that they could win the game. If they try and play into the strenght of the Florida team speed - they will lose the game.
Tommie T
gatorstud said:
posted on December 12, 2006 3:14 PM — 69.95.111.248 — link — abuse?
yeah ...what gatorhippy said....reggie "freakin"nelson....
hey marko...now wasn't it just a couple of years ago that the so-called experts though that miami would kick the crap out of ohio state in the chamionship game......and how did that work out for miami.....
"BE WARY OF THE GATORS"Mooka said:
posted on December 13, 2006 12:48 PM — 138.163.0.43 — link — abuse?
I think it's funny Marko doesn't seem to think FLA doesn't have as much talent as Ohio St. and discredits the SEC. I've said before and I'll say it again: Any team in the SEC that goes undefeated, or loses even just one game will beat the best from any conference. I agree with Gator Pilot and the rest of the Gator Nation on this one. Ohio St. should brace for shock.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 13, 2006 10:43 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Some initial Bowl Game projections:
T.C.U. 28 Northern Illinois 16
B.Y.U. 30 Oregon 27
Rice 30 Troy 23
South Florida 22 East Carolina 17
Hawaii 34 Arizona State 27
U.C.L.A. 24 Florida State 17
Oklahoma State 26 Alabama 24
Rutgers 28 Kansas State 17Pac 10's losin' two out of three - so far. Big East looks like they'll take both of these. BYU and Hawaii are high scoring offenses that can win. Oregon drew a tough game - so did Arizona State. Alabama does not have a coach - so that hurts. Arizona State coach is a lame duck - they may not play well at all.
Tommie T
Tomcat said:
posted on December 14, 2006 1:21 AM — 70.242.184.89 — link — abuse?
Hey Tommie T I kinda agree with your predictions.What is your take on the Houston vs. South Carolina ? What do you think about the Texas A&M vs California ? Looks like some interesting matchups.What is your take on the Louisville vs Wake Forest?
Hookem-Horns Go Owls Ou-sux Go BroncosTommie Trojan said:
posted on December 14, 2006 10:28 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Some more initial Bowl projections:
New Mexico 24 San Jose State 21
Utah 24 Tulsa 23
Central Michigan 28 Middle Tennessee St. 21
California 30 Texas A&M 21
Clemson 30 Kentucky 22
Oregon State 26 Missouri 21
South Carolina 28 Houston 21
Texas Tech 28 Minnesota 26
Purdue 25 Maryland 24
Boston College 26 Navy 20
Nevada 21 Miami (Fla.) 20
Texas 31 Iowa 20
Virginia Tech 21 Georgia 17Tomcat:
Doesn't look too good for your guys. Looks like Houston will lose to South Carolina and that the Aggies are gonna get "beat down" by "da Bears". What do you mean by: what's my take on Louisville vs Wake Forest? I don't have a score yet, but I am sure, Louisville will demolish them - probably by 21.
Tommie T
YJackets said:
posted on December 15, 2006 11:50 AM — 168.9.40.241 — link — abuse?
The Florida Gators have to be the luckiest team in the history of football they should have at the very least about 3 losses on the season if not more.
The GT Jackets would be going to a BCS bowl if not for Reggie Ball....will we ever beat UGA?....will we ever loose to Miami?
Holla Back!!!Jake said:
posted on December 15, 2006 11:56 AM — 216.77.96.34 — link — abuse?
u can talk about how ohio state has played some weak teams but lets not forget that ohio state won most of those games big... however fla only managed to beat vandy by 6 ... also the big ten has the chance to end up with 3 teams in the top 5 osu, mich, and wisc...... not to mention the fact that osu has beaten the #2 team in the nation twice this year , once on the road by 17.. .. And the michigan fans can go ahead and say whatever they want about the whole neutral field situation because the fact of the matter is , that in college football you have to be able to win on the road... and your conference
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 15, 2006 7:42 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
ATLien:
Got involved in one of them "Bowl projection" playoffs where you can win the million dollars. All I got to do is pick the most winners, and place them in the order of priority (higher priority gets you more points), and I'll be kickin' it on some beeeach in Mexico for awhile. No, I'm not quittin' my day job. But, I'm using some computers models mixed in with "point spread" to come to a conclusion. That said: everything indicates that VT will beat Georgia by four. We'll see.
Tommie T
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on December 15, 2006 7:48 PM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
Jake:
Not a big Buckeye fan. I can't be being from the PAC10 (as they Bucks must be hated) - but I agree with your point. I still have Ohio State #1 by computer system, because even though Ohio State has played somewhat of a weak schedule, they blew most of those teams out by the margin that they were supposed to and played more consistantly week in and week out than any other team has. They do deserve the #1 ranking at this time. They can seal the deal with a win over Florida. All they've done is everything that they were supposed to do, which many others (including my Trojans), could not accomplish.
Tommie T
M GO BLUE said:
posted on December 16, 2006 10:00 AM — 216.46.209.105 — link — abuse?
Tommie,Central Michigan winning a BOWL GAME!............ya know,the best part of C. Mich winning their conf. was the 31-10 stomping of the university of Ohio ! =)
Buckeye Mark! Your uni of ohio got stomped by c.Meeeeshigon 31-10!!!!!!!!!!!
big dog said:
posted on December 20, 2006 10:47 PM — 75.117.244.21 — link — abuse?
I get such a kick out of Gator fans. They remind me of the Texas fans ... until that is, OSU destroyed them in Texas. OSU doesn't talk trash, they don't need to do that. Too much class!!! We'll let the game speak for itself. Talk all you want Gators -- think what you want to think. Champions bring their game, not their words. Be thankful that Florida doesn't play Wisconsin and Michigan also.
GatorSource said:
posted on December 22, 2006 8:59 AM — 65.33.206.211 — link — abuse?
This is about as ridiculous as the entire BCS system. SEC domination will occur in January and the Buckeyes will get the suprise of their lives.
Luke said:
posted on December 24, 2006 3:14 PM — 67.35.110.26 — link — abuse?
I like how you say florida is "terrible' for losing to auburn. Well guess what, they are in the championship and one of the two best teams in the country. So it looks like every team is terrible under your guidelines.
Boy it was fun seeing ohio get spanked in basketball. That's what happens when u play with the big boys.
gatorstud said:
posted on December 24, 2006 11:02 PM — 71.114.217.67 — link — abuse?
hey big dog.....wasn't it just a couple of years ago that ohio state was supposed to get spanked by the hurricanes......refresh my memory....what happened...osu surprised miami.....osu can be as confident all they want.......it's 60 minutes between the lines that matter........come jan. 8th.....we all see what osu is made of...
the pressure is on them not just to win, but win against a "so-called" lesser opponent (florida)....so go ahead and under estimate them...ask miami how that went for them....and as for "gator sucks"....why don't you be a man and put your teams name on the screen...you step up and slam on other teams......give some of us a shot at yours....
"gator sucks"...how long did you come up with that name....or should i say how many brain dead drunk frat boys did it take to come up with that name...i'm done wasting my time on you.....
C-DOGG said:
posted on December 25, 2006 4:37 PM — 76.188.148.131 — link — abuse?
gatorstud,
Re: post#95,There is a BIG difference between OSU beating my Canes vs. OSU beating Florida(33-20 my prediction). Here it is.....COACHING. Jim Tressel is far better a coach than Urban Meyer and Larry Choker. Don't try to compare the two NC games. Florida has no chance against the bucks. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words. Miami is still the last team to win a NC from the state of FLorida. That stat will remain.
FSUfan said:
posted on December 28, 2006 3:01 PM — 68.212.9.7 — link — abuse?
Okay, here's the deal...the OSU fans think that the slow team is gonna beat the fast team.
I remember when Alabama played Nebraska when Bear Bryant was still coachin'.
AL's nose guard weighed about 168 pounds. He was a converted defensive back. Another defensive linelan for AL was about 185. He was another converted defensive back. Going up against a huge (at that time) Nebraska front line that averaged about 235.
AL kicked their rear end all day long. It looked like the defense was on offense...they'd be all over the offensive line the instant the ball was snapped.
The final score was at least 31-7...maybe 38-7.
Bucknut said:
posted on December 28, 2006 3:08 PM — 156.77.108.71 — link — abuse?
Here is my problem w/the whole "SEC is more dominant" argument. Florida fans, I'll give it to you. Hands down, THE SEC WAS THE MOST DOMINANT CONFERENCE THIS YEAR!!! Again, this is coming from an OSU fan. The question that I want to ask gator fans is this: Since when did coming from a better conference translate into being a better team head to head? That's assanine deductive reasoning. B/c Florida plays in the SEC and the SEC is better than the BIG 10 (top to bottom), that means Florida is better than Ohio State! C'mon. Do you really think that?
Secondly, I hear a lot of SEC fans state that OSU would never "survive" a conference like the SEC. Prove it! If Florida can survive (albeit one loss) show me weaknesses in Ohio State's armor that would make you assume that Ohio State wouldn't survive. You say that Florida gets everyone's best week in and week out. You don't think that the #1 team in the nation gets everyone's best week in and week out? And they survived. So that argument is baseless.
Duckman said:
posted on December 28, 2006 6:45 PM — 69.178.39.210 — link — abuse?
Bucknut,
Don't waist your time. You will never convince SEC fans that they are not the greatest conference on the face of the planet. No amount of evidence or facts will ever convince them. Lets just be grateful that they let us play their game.Paul Henri said:
posted on December 28, 2006 8:15 PM — 67.35.224.92 — link — abuse?
Dear Brother SEC Fans,
Do not think for a second that you cannot beat Ohio State. You can and will. Indeed, you can dominate them. Why? You have had many Bowl games already and lost only one: Auburn, LSU, Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, and Florida State, which just demolished UCLA--a team that defeated one of the major media's darlings, USC. As an LSU Tiger fan, I am an SEC fan. I hope at least we sweep our three big Bowls: BCS Championship, Sugar, and Capital One. Florida State's decisive victory is just a prelude to what the SEC will do this year. It is our chance finally to solidify respect for our conference despite the huge number of West and East Coast-bred writers.
Ohio State has played only one or two Bowl games: Michigan and Penn State. You guys are far more battle hardened than Ohio State and will not give up. Do not forget to use Teebow if things are not going as planned or if you want to keep Ohio State off balance. You beat LSU, and have you heard? Notre Dame's Coach Weiss changed his usual practice routine to prepare for LSU. Usually he scrimmages his first team offense against the second team defense and vice versa. But he said LSU's speed is so formidable that he used his first team offense against his first team defense. So take this as encouragement in your battle and send your good thoughts to LSU in its game against Notre Dame.
Paul
Gatorkt said:
posted on December 29, 2006 2:57 PM — 70.127.5.225 — link — abuse?
Duckman, the same could be said about Big 10 fans. After following this thread for weeks I have had it with all internet quarterbacks. Fact: Ohio State is good and has the best player in College Football. Fact: Florida is good and struggled through a GRUELING schedule that is not terribly comparable to Ohio State's schedule and prevailed to win the SEC. No predictions coming from me. I learned my lesson when I KNEW we were going to stomp Nebraska in the Fiesta Bowl. So, to all fans...be careful what kind of smack you talk. Look at what FSU did to UCLA. Go Gators.
Gatorkt said:
posted on January 1, 2007 8:19 PM — 70.127.5.225 — link — abuse?
Bucknut, your argument is flawed. YOur point is biased regardless of you pointing out you are an OSU fan. Surving a stronger schedule means quite a bit when you talk going head to head. It is not always the case but I seriously doubt OSU would be undefeated if they had to play GA, UT, SC, UA, UF, LSU, Ark, and/or Auburn. Bowls games are poor substitutes for a play off but I can tell you that if there was a play off I would rather Florida play Big 10 teams rather than the SEC teams. Bowl games are also meaningless when comparing conferences...except the championship game. OSU is good. UF is good. The SEC is loads better than the Big 10. Does it even out? I don't know but we are going to find out.
terzo22 said:
posted on January 1, 2007 10:01 PM — 68.218.173.164 — link — abuse?
Gatorkt.
How about your points being bias and contradicting? Explain to me how bowl games are a poor barometer when measuring strength of conference while the NC game is not? How is it you can say bowl games are meaningless when comparing conferences? How else can you compare them? The SEC wants to stay in a bubble and claim they are the best. But when Penn St. comes along and beats Tennessee and Wisconsin takes out Arkansas you want to just dismiss those games and say they don't mean anything that only the NC game matters when comparing conferences, how do you figure? I don't want to hear another SEC fan say "well if you had to play Auburn, Georgia, Arkansas, LSU, and Ten then you would have at least one loss too" yeah right. After seeing the badgers and the Nitany Lions beat two of your top tier teams I’m convinced Ohio St. had a tougher time playing through the BIG TEN. The BIG TEN will go 3-0 vs. the SEC and that still won't silence some of you ignorant SEC fans who think year in and year out their conference is the best.
Jeffrey said:
posted on January 2, 2007 7:29 AM — 68.83.68.239 — link — abuse?
riiiight...... Because we definitely did NOT score 42 points against a Michigan defense that was giving up 29 yards a game thru the season. We definitely did not have two huge runs up the middle of their line for touchdowns. We definitely didn't spread the ball thru the air all over the field to all different receivers.....all on this GREAT' defense. Hey whoever that Florida blogger was...get your facts together before you put your crap out there. You guys played a pretty good defense in LSU but thats about it.
Gatorkt said:
posted on January 2, 2007 8:39 PM — 70.127.5.225 — link — abuse?
terzo22, you just made my point. All you have is comparing conferences because the Big 10 does not have the same intensity of schedule. All I hear from Big 10 fans is bowl talk. Whatever. Fine Wisconsin played and beat Arkansas. Penn State beat the hell out of Tennessee. What about FSU smacking UCLA? Didn't UCLA beat USC? Didn't USC kill Michigan. WTF? If you want to compare meaningless bowl games go ahead. The only game that counts is the NC game. Don't be a typical Big 10 fan and tout and try and convince me or any other SEC fan that your schedule compares. It doesn't. I could give a damn if you don't want to hear about having to play POWERHOUSES all year long. Florida plays the best in the nation every year. The Big 10 plays maybe five of the best all year. I have never said a thing about Ohio State being a bad team. I just doubt they could go undefeated in the better conferences (Big 12, SEC and recently ACC). The Big 10 does not compare. If you read my post...BOWL GAMES ARE A POOR SUBSTITUTE FOR A PLAY OFF. Compare as you wish. Ohio State deserves the #1 spot. Period. Regardless of conference. They just had an easier road getting there. Does that mean Florida is going to beat them????. Not necessarily.
Theo Godwyn said:
posted on January 3, 2007 3:20 PM — 69.28.106.91 — link — abuse?
So which conference is the toughest?
Here are the Bowl Game records so far. Not that this tells the whole story because some matchups are between the top teams of one conference versus the lesser teams of another conference.
Big East (5) 4-0
Mountain West (4) 3-1
Western Athletic (4) 3-1
Southeastern (9) 4-3
Atlantic Coast (8) 4-4
Pacific-10 (6) 3-3
Mid-American (4) 1-1
Sun Belt (2) 1-1
Big 12 (8) 3-5
Big Ten (7) 2-4
Independents (I-A) (2) 0-1
Conference USA (5) 0-4It doesn't look to me like any one conference is dominant over the others unless you look at the Big East. The Big Ten hasn't looked dominant by any means. Wisconsin squeeked by Arkansas and Michigan was hammered into submission by USC. The SEC hasn't looked incredible either. I think it is a much more even playing field between conferences than either team wants to admit. My opinion is that Ohio State should be playing Boise State and not Florida. Florida lost once and barely won at least 3 other games. They could have easily been a 9-4 team with the amount of times the won close games.
Having said that, I am not convinced that Ohio State will win against Florida. College Football is difficult to predict though. On a good day, at least a dozen teams could probably beat Ohio State.
USC, California, Louisville, Boise State, BYU, Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, and LSU would all have a chance at Ohio State if they were having a good day. Except Ohio State is probably the better team and would win under even conditions in most cases.
terzo22 said:
posted on January 3, 2007 7:16 PM — 68.218.173.164 — link — abuse?
Let’s get this straight; you’re debating with me about SEC being a tougher conference than the Big 10. The following are the questions and statements you posted in an attempt to support your claim. I will respond to them accordingly.
1. The Big Ten does not have the same “intensity of a schedule”.
That’s a very easy thing to assume when you’ve been spoon fed that the SEC has no equal since birth. Strength of schedule is all relative; the SEC is tough because top to bottom most teams can compete. Now if you take any two teams in the SEC and make them dominate almost every year does that in return make the SEC any less competitive? I wouldn’t say so. Now the analogy I just referred to is in reality, the Big 10. Ohio St. and Michigan dominate their conference almost every year. That doesn’t make their schedule any less intense or competitive. That just shows how good either team is when they dominate their conference. That goes for any team in any conference, just look at Boise St. to back up that statement. Now I know what you’re going to say, but the SEC has 4 or 5 “dominate” teams every year therefore making it so hard. Well maybe it’s not that 4 or 5 are really that dominate. Maybe it’s that one or two just can’t seem to stand out. This year one did, the Gators. But from what I can gather, according to your logic when one or two teams dominate their conference the rest of the teams are sub par competitors. So what does that say about the SEC if Florida basically handled their conference (except for a questionable call and a lackluster second half)? Does that spell weakness for the rest of the SEC? I wouldn’t say so. But if the above is not your logic then what is? What makes the SEC so much tougher? It’s all perspective; the way in which you choose to look at it determines where you stand.2. All I hear from Big 10 fans is bowl talk.
Jeez far be it for anyone to site head to head competitions when trying to answer the question of who’s better. You think bowl games are meaningless? For who are they meaningless exactly? Not the seniors playing their last game, not the underclassmen trying to prove themselves for next year, not the coaches constantly on the hot seat. So who are they meaningless too? Maybe to you when they don’t help you express your ignorant view that the SEC rules. You think those kids aren’t playing to win? I know the kids from the Big 10 were playing with heart and trying to win. If you can’t say the same thing about your SEC kids you need to check what type of character and morals you’re bestowing on those players as their fans. But I don’t believe those players buy into the statements that the bowl games don’t matter in the first place. So I’m comfortable in believing that those SEC teams that played Those Big 10 teams head up, were playing to win. And that makes it more than just a glorified exhibition game, even though you would like to believe that, therefore you can use those games as a measuring stick when comparing the two conferences. Not to do so would be irresponsible as a true fan. What I took from the two games so far has hardened my belief that both conferences are good and one isn’t light years ahead of the rest but in the end one will be slightly better and the only way to determine that is on the field.3. What about FSU smacking UCLA? Didn't UCLA beat USC? Didn't USC kill Michigan? WTF? If you want to compare meaningless bowl games go ahead.
Again I thought you were trying to explain to me how the SEC was tougher than the Big 10. What do any of these teams have to do with your argument? And USC, UCLA wasn’t a bowl game and far from meaningless. I guess your trying to tell me bowl games are not significant, so that the fact the SEC is 0-2 against the big ten doesn’t hurt your argument. Sorry, it’s not going to happen. Especially when it’s a SEC vs. Big 10 bowl game, those kids know it’s for bragging rights. Wanting to dismiss that fact just weakens your argument further. If I were you I would be arguing how close the games were and be betting on Florida pulling off the upset. But you’d rather fall back on the old claim that the SEC is the toughest conference in football because…. because… because well just because they are that’s why. Instead of dismissing those games try to own them and use them in your favor. It wouldn’t be hard to argue that Arkansas was in fact the better team in their game. Why not make that statement instead of saying bowl games don’t matter?4. Ohio St. had an easier road to the championship.
What evidence of this do you have? There is no way of knowing how FL would have finished if they played Ohio St.’s schedule and vise versa. I will say this though FL doesn’t know what it felt like this year being ranked number one all year long. FL has had the benefit of being underestimated, Ohio St. has not. Florida didn’t have to handle every team giving you their absolute best to try and pull off the monumental upset that will hype their program. Who ever wear’s the bulls-eye on their back has the toughest schedule period no matter who they play.
I will end this debate of Big 10 vs. SEC, for now, with this comparison. Let’s look at the NFL you would like to think it’s the best football being played at the highest level anywhere. But what if the CFL (Canadian) came along and a few of their teams wanted to join are league claiming they where just as good. As a fan of football would you want to see some kind of exhibition game that would humiliate the challengers? Or would you rather the NFL just say over and over there’s no way you could compete in this league. You don’t have enough speed, talent, experience, depth, power, or whatever. As a fan I know I would just rather see them play instead of the NFL just dismissing everyone else as inferior competition. You can replace the NFL with the SEC and CFL with the rest of college football in this hypothetical analogy and it would ring true. If you want to say you’re the best show me on the field. Beat teams that you say you are superior too. Straight up, anything not based on what happened on the field are just assumptions or opinions.
Rack Em’
Gatorkt said:
posted on January 3, 2007 11:27 PM — 70.127.5.225 — link — abuse?
terzo22,
You are putting words in my mouth and assuming things I did not intend or say. Furthermore, you getting so excited about this indicates your fear of being wrong. I could give a damn. If you want to see the CFL play the NFL (and any other comparisons you made to that effect) be my guest...get in your one-deep line. I never made that comparison and did not intend a comparison of conferences to be done as you have.
As a fan of football, specifically College Football I want a playoff. That is my point. I don't need to convince you that the SEC is a tougher conference, I will let other experts (save yourself) spell that out to you. As for my point on bowl games, I have told you several times that bowl games are a poor substitute for a playoff and that makes them meaningless in the end. I never mentioned the players or coaches because I was not talking about emotion or bragging rights. You mentioned them and then proceeded to insinuate I intended to attack the entire SEC's character. I know a total of 9 kids playing football for the SEC and I never mentioned their character or heart. But you, by putting those words in my mouth, did. Where is the debate in that?
I agree with you that going head to head in MEANINGFUL games (read playoff) is the way to go. Every aspect of your argument is biased for the Big 10 because you are passionate about that conference. Fine, you love the Big 10 but you protest too much. Are you trying to convince me or yourself?
As for my point and comments, it is simple semantics that you misinterpreted and I could care less. You want the fight, fight it by yourself.
Again, I want a playoff and I personally would rather play Big 10 teams in that playoff. Won't work in my favor every year but I feel I have the better chance of winning. You are the one saying that Ohio State is going to win. I'm not making a prediction based on my youthful running off of the mouth when Florida played Nebraska and got trounced. Furthermore, at this point, I am not so sure how good either team is compared to the other. I suppose I can take the bowl games into account, right? You said earlier that this is the only way to compare. When I nominally did, you attacked it and said it weakens my argument. You are reeking of inconsistency. The hell with it, you have your opinion and you resort to insanely detailed and biased debate to make a point that I simply don't agree with.
I am done arguing with you about conference strength. You are a typical Big 10 fan that is, admittedly, tired of hearing that your conference is weak in comparison to the SEC. Instead of just telling me that the Big 10 is more dominate and better (like you claim I did) lobby the Big 10 to add another team and then you can attempt to compare. I would suggest ND because that would add some ass to your mediocre conference. (There, now I attacked it and I claim to know it is mediocre because....because....because it just is, that's why. Again, try and convince yourself that the Big 10 is so great. I made my points in earlier posts. Some great teams, not as competitive as the SEC.)
My Points: (So you can understand them and not attempt to tell me what I am saying)
- Bowl games are exhibitions and are meaningless in crowning a NC with the one exception of the title game. (NOTE/WARNING I am not talking about emotions or pride)
- I feel, as the majority of NCAA football fans do, that the SEC is a tougher, more grueling conference year in and out than the Big 10. I stipulate that you disagree.
- I agree (shocking) that the only way to truly compare these two conferences is on the field in games that WILL ACTUALLY MEAN SOMETHING. Play-off. Now your emotions/pride point will truly mean something when compared to what I am talking about. Playing for your life is a little more intense. (Kind of like playing in the SEC, huh?)
- I take exception to you assuming that the SEC lacks character by you misinterpreting my words. I never attacked the Big 10 kids.
- Finally, I agree, in part, to your statement "Straight up, anything not based on what happened on the field are just assumptions or opinions." I am not going to reread my posts to see if I stated my opinions as facts so I apologize if I did.Go Gators
terzo22 said:
posted on January 4, 2007 6:18 PM — 65.80.235.86 — link — abuse?
gatorkt,
My intent was not to put words into your mouth. I was merely trying to guess what made you think the way you did. When you made your previous statements you didn't back them up with anything pert anent. So for arguments sake I based my position on the only logical points I thought you could make in defense of the SEC. With the format it's hard to debate without a bit of assumption on both of our parts. You seem intelligent and I have faith you will clarify your position if it does not correlate with what I assumed.
As for misinterpretations, you seem to have a few also. I never once claimed the Big 10 the best conference nor did I predict an OSU victory. I never judged the SEC kids. I in fact stuck up for them in light of what I assumed you thought of them. Go back and read that part again, you should get what I’m talking about. Actually I really didn't believe you thought they lacked character. I was trying to make you rethink your position on bowl games. My point was that the kids that play in them don’t think they’re meaningless. Sorry if you didn't like the CFL, NFL comparison. But don't tell me you didn't intend to compare our conferences. When you make statements claiming you’re the best, that’s exactly what you’re doing. You also stated you didn’t want a fight or to debate this topic any further. Why? It can’t be that you don't care because you responded and your here in the first place. Don't back down so fast it's ok to disagree. If you want everyone to agree your in the wrong place.
It seems we both have some misunderstanding of what the other is trying to convey. So to simplify matters (if you choose to keep debating with me) let's just keep the points like you did in the last part of your post I will follow suit.
-I disagree with bowl games being meaningless except for the NC game. If you choose to believe that then what exactly makes the NC game anymore important than the rest? I have some ideas but so there’s no confusion I would like to hear what you say first.
- I guess we agree that we disagree about the SEC being the toughest conference. I will agree that most of college football fans feel the way you do.
- I also feel a play-off system is a greatly needed. Although I’m not quite sure if it will answer the question of who has "the best conference". I didn’t elaborate further on this topic because I felt it wasn't relevant to our argument.
- Playing for your life through the SEC. I explained before why I believe that playing through the SEC is not much different than playing through the big ten. You can either agree or disagree with my interpretation of the SEC, obviously. But I also feel that if the OSU beats FL and completes the sweep it will vindicate my view.
-I do not think the SEC kids lack character and I thought I conveyed that clearly. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I was simply trying to get you to retract your statement that bowl games are meaningless by tagging lack of morals to that belief. I guess I'm wrong for that but lawyers do it all the time. Get you to say things you didn't really say, I do it to my wife all the time and she hates it.
-I’m not getting excited on the contrary it is you that seems more passionate than I about this topic. So according to you does that indicate you’re fearful?
-You said in reference to the Big 10, “some great teams not as competitive”. That’s exactly my point it all depends how you interpret it. If you equate strength to competition and weakness to the lack off competition then you’re right. But just because the SEC is more competitive does not mean they are superior. One does not define the other and they don’t even belong in the same category (competitiveness and superiority). The SEC is tough you are right the toughest conference in football for the teams that play in it. That does not guarantee those teams could do better in any other conference. I can guarantee not one team in the SEC wants to join the Big 10. Really, why would anyone want to try and knock off Ohio St. and Michigan every year? One year you might get one but very rarely does a team beat both. You want to talk tough ask the other teams in the big ten how tough it is to win their conference. I’m guessing it’s harder to win a conference when you have two overwhelmingly good teams you have to handle. If what you say about the SEC is true and it’s more competitive it seems to me like that equates to a level playing field for most of your conference. Funny I thought it was easier to come out on top when everyone’s equal. SEC is the hardest conference to play in because every team is good? How did they fool everyone with that backwards logic to begin with? If every team is good it wouldn’t matter they would all have an equal chance of winning their conference. So how does that make it harder than a conference were the majority of the teams are not as good as 1 or 2 teams in their conference? Yeah it’s not as tough for Ohio St. to win their conference but that in no way makes Ohio St. any less dominate or their conference any less tough.
terzo22 said:
posted on January 4, 2007 11:28 PM — 72.154.100.62 — link — abuse?
Let me say this to anyone who wants to listen. Just to clarify my view when it comes to how strong your conference is, it goes like this.
The Pac-10 has to be near the top. Why? Because nobody in that conference has come close to having a better record than USC in the past 5 years. USC is so dominate that the other teams in the Pac-10 can't come up with a better record to over take them. And there isn't a conference championship game to make it easier for an inferior team to pull off the upset and claim the championship even though they might have worse record and maybe loss to USC earlier in the year.
So what I’m saying makes a conference tough is the percentage of teams that don't have but a prayer to win their conference. You look at conferences like the Big 12 the Pac 10 and Big 10 and you let USC, Michigan, Ohio St., Texas, and Oklahoma define them accordingly. Everyone forgets about the other teams in those conferences and they only focus on the dominate team winning there conference just about every year. But in the SEC, ACC (this year), and Big East from top to bottom the playing field is more level. More teams have a legitimate shot at winning their conference. They don't have to deal with an overwhelmingly good team they just have to get by more teams on the same level they are. But bottom line those conferences have a larger percentage of teams with a legit shot at winning there conference. It's harder for Michigan St. to win their conference than it is for LSU, Florida, Ten, or Auburn to ever win theirs. So that's why I think it's backwards to say an all around more competitive conference is more tough than a conference where one or two teams dominate it.
I think I’m just rambling on about things that I’m even confused about. But it's good to think outside of the box and come up with your own views on things instead of just being told what to believe.
Tommie Trojan said:
posted on January 5, 2007 12:13 AM — 64.32.153.19 — link — abuse?
terzo22:
We're finally gonna almost agree on something. I do think that the SEC is the stronger conference top to bottom. Just slightly. I think that the point your tryin' to make is valid. Just because one or two teams dominate inside of any particular conference - does not make that conference weak. It makes those teams really good. And, that is usually proven when they go out to play against other teams. The only time a Michigan is gonna look real bad is when they play a USC or Ohio State and visa versa. Anybody else and Michigan probably will win. But, such is the union of the Big10 and Pac10. Whoever emerges will always run into another really good team. As much as some Ohio State Buckeyes have pissed me off: I'm still callin' it Ohio State 27 Florida 19. I can't get the score to move off the line. Maybe if I were to pick it against the line - I'd take Florida and the points. But, definately Ohio State to get the game. I think that you have an offense similar to ours. I think your defense better show up this time though. Besides, there has always been a union amongst our conferences. I will pull for the Big10 when I can. Ohio State does not have a good history against SEC teams. This does concern me and it would be good if you people broke that string. Your almost lookin' as bad as Notre Dame in that regard. Well, this is the year, so do CFB a favor and win the game. We need another undisputed National Champion. If you don't - all the Boise State people are gonna start yammerin' about how "they were jobbed".
Tommie T
GravityWell said:
posted on January 5, 2007 6:09 PM — 75.176.182.145 — link — abuse?
GENTLEMEN, GENTLEMEN...
I am nobody's fan. I am simply a time traveler who has just returned from Tuesday, January 9, 2007. I must tell you now that Ohio State has already beaten Florida by the exact score of 42 to 17.
When you get to where I was, come back to this post and wonder.
See you in the future!
You time-hopping friend,
Gravity Well
Gatorkt said:
posted on January 8, 2007 11:54 PM — 70.127.5.225 — link — abuse?
DESTROYED!
LET THE EXCUSES BEGIN!
This is the reason the SEC is the better conference. OSU had no answer for any aspect of Florida's game. None. Where are you now OSU fans? Where are the guarantees and the INSANE predictions? Where is the talk about your running game? Where is the talk about your Heisman winner? Where are the incredibly complex reasons the Big 10 is so great? Now you see why speed will win. Now you see why playing rivals damn near every weekend is important. YOU CAN'T HANG. It wasn't even a good game and you can all eat your words followed by bruised and humble pie.
GO GATORS - THE 2006 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!
lance said:
posted on January 9, 2007 1:08 AM — 24.9.49.112 — link — abuse?
Last time I checked the score, looks like most predictions were just a bit off. OSU got the ball jambed down their throats. Also the All American Middle LineBacker for OSU got his clock cleaned on more than one occasion.
The skeptics are right the SEC is not in the league of the Big 10. It looked like the battle of Midway. Did the Offensive line for OSU even show up? To all those naysayers of the SEC .... take a sip from a tall glass of shut the hell up!
Troy who?? Steve who??
GO GATORS - THE ONE AND ONLY NCAA FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS!
JMW said:
posted on January 9, 2007 12:17 PM — 75.89.19.139 — link — abuse?
I think what one of the Florida defenders said is very true, and I quote, "we have played much better teams than this. There are probably five or six teams in the SEC that would have had the same results"
Big 10 fans, go finish sucking you eggs now!
Wolverine Mike said:
posted on January 9, 2007 3:18 PM — 170.141.92.1 — link — abuse?
What a bunch of LOSERS !!! The "O" stands for OVERRATED !!!! Gooooo Blue, we will see you at the Big house. Now I know why the luckeyes didn't want to play U of M a 2nd time.
You got your asssses kicked !!!! !!!!!!!!!!
UF Fan said:
posted on January 9, 2007 7:58 PM — 74.237.238.37 — link — abuse?
WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD O.S.Pewww
No matter how many times the Gator Nation told you not to underestimate us, you just didn't listen. How's that for the S.E.C.? Did we eat up your offense, defense, Heisman trophy winner, and basketball team enough for you? How embarassing was 83 yds of offense for the WHOLE GAME! Hopefully that will teach you how things are down down here in the south.
Now will you do me just one more favor and shut the hell up.
BTW, that was Randy Moss that said 4 or 5 S.E.C.teams could have beat O.S.Pewww.
Maybe U.S.C. should have been in the Championship game. Then Florida could have played a GOOD team.
Congrats to The Florida Gator Football Team. Great season guys!IT'S GOOD TO BE A FLORIDA GATOR
Especially when your the NATIONAL CHAMPS!!!!!
UT Grad said:
posted on January 10, 2007 10:04 AM — 132.24.126.26 — link — abuse?
Wolverine Mike says:
posted on January 9, 2007 03:18 PM — IP: 170.141.92.1 — link
"What a bunch of LOSERS !!! The "O" stands for OVERRATED !!!! Gooooo Blue, we will see you at the Big house. Now I know why the luckeyes didn't want to play U of M a 2nd time.You got your asssses kicked !!!! !!!!!!!!!!"
Dude you got to be kidding me. You can't even beat USC who lost to Oregon State and UCLA and you are going toot your horn about how you would have beaten OSU. What ever. The two L's in Lloyd Carr represent the 2 losses you will always have. Ha, Go Blue yeah Blue and Orange representing the SEC.
Please note that all comments are subject to the Fanblogs Comment Policy.
GATORGreg said:
posted on December 5, 2006 2:33 PM — 68.214.120.140 — link — abuse?here here Mr. Pilot