December 19, 2007
Should Penn State start planning for life after JoPa?
With Florida State anointing OC Jimbo Fisher as "coach in waiting" after college football's winningest coach retires, the Penn State community is beginning to ask what -- if anything -- should be done in preparation for Joe Paterno to retire.
Even Paterno's supporters are starting to question whether he is just staying for the record.
There is a school of thought that Paterno, as much as he admires Bowden, wants to stick around long enough to retire as the all-time winningest coach. Right now he has 371 victories, two behind Bowden. The image is of Gen. George Patton, vowing to get to Messina with his army before Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery gets there with his.
"I ought to call Bobby and see when he's going to roll over," Paterno said, with a laugh.
For his part, Paterno is not interested in setting up a succession plan.
"I haven't even thought of it," Paterno said, according to the report. "I suppose it's up to them how they want to handle it. It's probably up to them whether they'll let me coach 2, 3, 4 or 5 more years, I don't know."
But the notion of having a succession plan is not really about Paterno. He's made it clear, he's not ready to retire. Rather, the idea of putting a plan in place is about Penn State and the future of the PSU football program. And Paterno's reluctance to even discuss the notion leaves the the Nittany Lions in the lurch.
Paterno's disinclination to offer any real insight into how long he intends to remain does no favors to longstanding members of his veteran staff, especially defensive coordinator Tom Bradley, a Penn State alumnus who has served his old coach for 29 years with some expectation that his loyalty would garner him at least as much consideration as was given to Fisher, who has been at Florida State all of one season.
In the absence of a plan, the PSU assistants have been left to fend for themselves. Black Shoe Diaries points out that the coaching staff is being cherry-picked.
We have an 81 year old coach whose contract runs out after the 2008 season. No successor has been made public. No two year contract has been guaranteed to the assistants. The result? Brian Norwood is already gone. Tom Bradley is talking to West Virginia. Other assistant coaches like Larry Johnson and Ron Vanderlinden are rumored to be looking for other opportunities. Dick Anderson and Galen Hall are a bad cold away from calling it a career and retiring. It's no wonder Joe Paterno said his biggest challenge this off season will be keeping his staff together.
So what would a Penn State succession plan look like, Black Shoe Diaries points out several different examples that PSU could emulate and breaks down the pro's & con's of each.
The Barry Alvarez Solution
Prior to the 2005 season Alvarez announced he was going to be stepping down as the head coach at Wisconsin. He named Brett Bielema as his successor at that time and coached out 2005 as his final year....
The Bobby Bowden Solution
Last week Florida State gave Bowden a one year contract extension through 2008 and restructured offensive coordinator Jimbo Fisher's contract to make him a very rich man if he is not named the next Florida State head coach....
The Lloyd Carr Solution
Last spring Carr had his contract restructured to give him an out to be paid as an administrative employee after the 2007 season. He then had the contracts of his assistants restructured into guaranteed two year deals....
The Status Quo Solution
Give Joe a four year contract extension through 2012....
The Emperor For Life Solution (a.k.a. - The Charlie Weis Solution)
Give Paterno a lifetime contract and let him coach as long as he wants....
BSD really put a lot of thought into each one (so check out the pro's and con's), and determines that the Lloyd Carr model is the best.
But, for a guy like Paterno, I'm not so sure. I have to think that -- in the end -- Paterno will (and should) go out like Bobby Bowden and the plan that Florida State has put in place. He should be able to set his own time frame, but the football program deserves the right to start planning its future, too.
Comments:
Gatorpilot said:
posted on December 19, 2007 11:22 AM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
Paterno is a living legend who, sadly, is incapable of determining on his own that it is time to go.
I feel it's important to note that the Bowden Succession Plan was conceived by the administration, NOT Coach Bowden. Bobby had to think about it at length, and apparently it took a couple of weeks and numerous conferences with TK and Fisher for Bowden to warm up to the idea before he was finally convinced that he should accept. Bobby was not prepared to go this route, and it's an indication that the school is tired of sending more subtle signals -- statue of the coach outside the stadium, stained glass window in Doak with his image, field renamed in his honor -- which have gone unnoticed by Bowden, and is cranking up the pressure another notch.
I think this is the route Penn State should take. Since Paterno is making it clear that he's not the one thinking about a succession plan, the university should step up and show that if he's not, they certainly are. It's only fair when you've got an octogenarian running the show.
It's a tough situation for all involved, in both Bowden's and Paterno's case. They both did so much for their respective universities, but does that put the school and its fans permanently in their debt even at the expense of a long downward slide into mediocrity? No objective observer believes Bowden or Paterno has the energy, vision, and forward thinking it will take to bring their programs back into prominence. So the fans of these programs wait anxiously, wishing that their beloved icons will decide to make a graceful exit that most benefits everyone. When the old fellas sit stubbornly on their throne and refuse to move, it's an indication that the job is more about them than the school. And that's a sad situation for everyone involved.
Some of it is probably age. I believe that both Bowden and Paterno really do think they can get their programs back into the light. Just one more season... one more... and then one more again... each and every year they think they're closer, when in reality they keep sliding down a slippery pole. They're simply not capable, after decades leading their programs, of imagining their team soldiering ahead without them.
If it worked for Bowden, maybe it will work for JoePa, too. The university needs to gently approach the legendary coach and start quietly insisting that a successor be named. The downside is that JayPa is still on the staff, and I'm pretty sure that despite their love for Paterno, PSU fans are ready for some fresh blood to take over that program. PSU football really hasn't been exciting for a long time, and Jay isn't exactly a spring chicken anymore either.
Gatorpilot said:
posted on December 19, 2007 6:26 PM — 71.42.27.135 — link — abuse?
G-Hip: I saw Bowden say exactly that in a TV interview. He said, "When they came to me with this idea, the more I thought about it, the more I liked it," or something to that effect. It was definitely right out of his own mouth that the university proposed it to him.
gatorhippy
posted on December 19, 2007 6:44 PM — 70.121.185.10 — link — abuse?
said:
G-Pil (#7):
That was Ramblin gator that was askin' bout that...
Not me...
Far as I'm concerned at this point...
The longer Bowden stays...
The longer Urban and the Gators continue to kick their head in...
Which suits me just fine...
Big Tide said:
posted on December 20, 2007 6:54 AM — 12.208.88.211 — link — abuse?
As easy as this new generation of coaches makes it to hate them, with their word meaning next to nothing and dollar signs in their eyes, I can't express how much damage these two gentelemen have done to their reputations in my eyes. I know this is a Paterno thread, but these guys walk hand in hand, their fates tied together so completely that they even crack jokes about it? They are like to old fools standing around at the Christmas party telling stories about the old days that nobody wants to hear while their wives are wiping food off their jackets. Neither of them can field a competitive team, much less win a championship, but 6 or 7 wins is enough to keep coming back if you can grab the all time record. Remember back when Jackie Burke and those old codgers had to be told they couldn't play in the Masters anymore? Burke cried about it although he couldn't even walk the course and complete an entire round. That's the mentality we are dealing with here. Go ahead and bash Saban, Petrino, Rich Rod and the rest, but these two old fools are showing the same selfishness, it's just wrapped in a prettier package and stamped LEGENDARY COACH......
OU-Ron
posted on December 20, 2007 9:15 AM — 216.201.209.146 — link — abuse? said:
@11, Hell for $400,000.00 per year, Penn State could keep Joe on the sidelines and let him keep the title as HC, hire a good young aggressive assistant to actually coach the team and pay him about 1.8 per year and still have a bargain. Joe would still be there as inspiration for the team, kinda like Radio did in the movie, he's getting too old to drive anyway....
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on December 20, 2007 9:59 AM — 67.97.209.36 — link — abuse?
#9: Gatorpilot, no worries and thanks for the explanation. To your previous point, I too enjoy seeing the Gators beat the Noles every year (especially for how it helps with recruiting), but this year was a beat-down. It reminded me of one of those "pre-season", non-conference tune-up games, except it was the season closer against a "bitter" rival. It's hard for them to be considered a "bitter" rival when it isn't much of a contest.
I'm not so arrogant to think that every year would (or could) be such a beat down of FSU as team strength is inevitably cyclical (see "Notre Dame"), but I recall the days when Miami, FSU and Florida were all consistently ranked in the top ten. I'd like that to happen again, but this time, with UF winning all the games. :-)
40 Acres of Burnt Orange
posted on December 20, 2007 1:37 PM — 76.182.205.22 — link — abuse? said:
All i can say about Rich Rod is at least he was a little more civil in leaving his team than the Petrino's and Saban's of the past couple of years.
@13 lmao! What a great idea, at this point and time i don't think JoePa would really know the difference.
Rammer Jammer said:
posted on December 20, 2007 2:02 PM — 199.89.170.92 — link — abuse?
40 acres
All i can say about Rich Rod is at least he was a little more civil in leaving his team than the Petrino's and Saban's of the past couple of years.
Nick Saban sat down with the owner of the Fins and explained his situation. WH gave him (Saban) his blessings. Then, Nick Saban sat down with his players and coaches to tell them he was leaving.
What else could he have done to make it more civil?
Rammer Jammer said:
posted on December 20, 2007 5:52 PM — 65.4.26.121 — link — abuse?
40 Acres
How civil would it have been to tell the press that he was contemplating taking the Bama job; in the middle of the Fins' season? He was trying to make the playoffs, for crying out load.
If you don't think he went about it in a civil matter; that's fine by me. I just don't see how you can throw Saban in the same boat as Petrino, considering the circumstances.
Anyway, this horse has been beaten too many times. I'll just leave it at that.
Good luck in your bowl game.
Coach Tommy Tuberville said:
posted on December 21, 2007 4:57 AM — 66.25.103.127 — link — abuse?
I think it is time to consider a retirement from Coach Paterno. If I were in charge of the search I would look at Nick Saban, Paul Johnson, or even Mike Shula. I think any of these guys could do a great job at Penn State. I once considered going to Penn State as an assistant but went to Texas A&M instead. I would be honored to be considered,but I'm saying at Auburn.
OU-Ron
posted on December 21, 2007 8:43 AM — 216.201.209.146 — link — abuse? said:
OH, the terminal "h", that's the worst kind, I think we're gonna have to come up with a number scale from 1 to 10, with 10 being the worst, something like "1-h= suspect, or 3h=just a dumb ass, or 7h=close to elimination, War Eagle, what do you think?????
gatorhippy
posted on December 21, 2007 11:46 AM — 70.121.110.84 — link — abuse? said:
WE ATL (#30):
Exactly...
That is it...
The emminent power of h is in it's simplicity yet it's ability to be all things...
It is the alpha and the omega...
The big and the small...
The yin and the yang...
It is all things yet nothing...
h
posted on December 21, 2007 12:10 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?War Eagle Atlanta
said:
So it shall be written, so it shall be done. It shall be expressed simply as h, no quotation marks or other punctuation needed. And unlike what I did earlier, we probably don't need to address it specifically to the offender.
The intended recipient of h is implied and understood.
Zac said:
posted on December 23, 2007 2:57 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
h it is.
I guess that means instead of abreviating Gator Hippy to Gator-H, or even GH as WarEagle has done, I should use GatorPilot's G-Hip abreviation, that the h thing doesn't get misconstrued.
I can't guess at Bobby Bowden's motivation for hanging on as long as he has. As for Joe Pa, I keep hearing his response to an interviewer's question, when he was asked about retirement. "What am I gonna do, Hunt?" The man is 81 years old. He LOVES coaching, and he's doing what he loves. A lot of people pushed for his retirement following 2004. He won 11 games in 2005, and is on the brink of 2 consecutive 9-4 seasons. There are good coaches out there who would give half their salary to be that successful (well, maybe not anymore - the salary part, that is).
I hope to God I'm in as good a shape mentially and physically as he is when I'm 81. Come to think of it, I'd be happy if my right fore-finger were in as good a shape as his, when I'm his age. (God willing I should live so long.)
At his age, is it a good idea to have Joe Pa menter along the next Nittany Lions coach? I can see the wisdom in this. Just don't ask this man to leave the field; aka OU-Ron's post #13. After all, it's where he belongs.
h
There, I took care of the "h" thing for you guys. "h", as in happy now?
Zac said:
posted on December 23, 2007 3:05 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
OR, is h short for the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch?
First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shalt be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thou foe, who being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
Yes, this now makes sense. Thow has the true meaning of h.
posted on December 23, 2007 5:19 PM — 74.176.36.242 — link — abuse? said:
"h" is a variable that you solve for, Zac, but none of the rest of your equation shows on the page. You simply hit "h" and that's it. No other words, letters, or marks need be added.
Again, it's effectiveness lies in it's simplicity.
Tomcat said:
posted on December 23, 2007 6:07 PM — 68.93.140.127 — link — abuse?
He's still sharp as a tack and his retirement should be on his terms, he is after all Penn St Football a regular full fledged living legend.
Asking Joe Pa to quit football would be like asking Willie to quit playing music.
I just hope when he does choose to leave that he is shown the dignaty and respect that he deserves." one day I was lookin up an he's pushin eighty
got brown tobacco stains all down his chin
to me he's one of the heros of this country
so why's he all dressed up like some old man"Song by Guy Clark actually about an Oil Feild driller, but it could be about your football coach or grandad
Merry Christmas
TomcatTomcat said:
posted on December 23, 2007 7:34 PM — 68.93.140.127 — link — abuse?
Zac I saw that particular film twice,We laughed so hard that we missed alot of it. I beleive around 75 or early 76 and it was a double feature with the Groove Tube. I have a cousin that went with us to the movie, he is now a Guru and lives in California.He makes a living massaging feet and reading eyeballs, we all call him doctor, but I beleive his degree was agriculture or horticulture, my memories are a bit hazy.
I do remember attending Willies picnic 76 were else would find the drunk rednecks watching the naked hippies and visa-versa.
The holy handgrenade ya O.K. but how bout that monster? or brave sir Robin and his minstrels?
You keep bringing up this stupid movie and its kinda like a flashback or something
We are the Knights that say ----hZac said:
posted on December 24, 2007 12:32 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
Thanks, War Eagle!!!
By the way, I think it's a 26" in-seam. Short people got no reasons; short people got no reasons; short people got no reasons to coach... (Nothin but luv for ya, Terry!)
Hey, did ya ever find me a car?
Zac said:
posted on December 24, 2007 12:52 PM — 205.188.116.136 — link — abuse?
I splained it to ya in anutter tread.
"Bobby Petrino Hired At Arkansas", post #85,
"I'm looking for safe, reliable, and comfortable transportation for my wife. It doesn't have to get 80 miles to the gallon, but 25 would be nice. It doesn't have to be sporty, SE Asian, or European; just well made. She's got a '94 Sable; it's got over 150K on it, and is beginning to feel its last legs. I have family in Dallas, GA, maybe 30-40 minutes from Atlanta. (You'd be surprised what I can arrange, when I put my mind to it.) So, if ya haz any ideas, let me know as time allows."
What, ya faget already? You can't be dat much olda den me. Yeesh! Just like my Organic Lab Prof in college always said, "You don't listen..."
Ramblin' Gator said:
posted on December 19, 2007 10:17 AM — 67.97.209.36 — link — abuse?Personally, I think the Bobby Bowden Solution would be the best choice for Penn State. The Lloyd Carr solution requires setting a termination date and I suspect Paterno is specifically trying to avoid that. The same is true for the Barry Alvarez solution. The Status Quo solution could work too, if you want Galen Hall to be the next HC at PSU. He has head coaching experience with the Gators. Unfortunately, he also has experience putting a team on probation (again, the Gators).