November 01, 2003
Dogs Collared: Florida beats Georgia
You all snickered when I suggested that we were inching closer to SEC chaos. The cards are falling into place and we're almost to the point of a vote to decide the SEC East Champion.
Florida beat Georgia in a very close game in the "World's Largest Cocktail Party" by a final of 16-13. Game ball for this one goes to one man who absolutely earned it - UF Coach Ron Zook. A lot of UF alums had the Zookster packing his bags and making reservations with U-Haul. Instead, Zook put together a great game plan that featured the arm of freshman Chris Leak.
Leak hit eight different receivers on Saturday and flung the ball around with confidence. It wasn't exactly a Spurrier-style performance, but I suspect Gator fans are going to be more than pleased.
Both defenses played well and both looked absolutely gassed late in the fourth quarter. It was pretty clear at halftime that this was going to be a game that could go down to the last possession and it didn't disappoint.
Despite their less than "Gator-esque" record, UF has managed to rack up three straight conference wins against teams that were rated in the top ten just a few weeks ago: LSU, Arkansas, and (now) Georgia.
How does this game impact the SEC and the BCS?
UGA should expect a big drop in the polls and UF should jump into the top 20 in both polls. At the top FSU should be moving up to #4 but could go higher if USC loses to Washington State.
In the BCS, Georgia should remain in the top 10 overall, but will probably end up below conference foe LSU. This loss ends Georgia's chances at a BCS title berth.
For the SEC East, it's a big cluster. Florida and Georgia are all tied at 4-2. Florida has very winnable games with Vandy & South Carolina left. Pencil the Gators at 6-2. Tennessee is 3-2 and has very winnable games with Vandy, UK and Miss State remaining. Pencil the Vols at 7-2. Georgia has Auburn and KY remaining. The Bulldogs must win both games or they are out of the SEC title race.
Unless Georgia wins beats both Auburn and KY, Tennessee looks to be headed to the SEC championship.
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Chris Lawrence says:
posted on November 1, 2003 08:25 PM — linkUh, I don't remember snickering. And we're nowhere near a vote, as you point out, because if Georgia can't beat UF I have serious reservations that they can beat both Kentucky and Auburn.
As for UT, they might also have some trouble with Kentucky. And, as for UF, USC could make things very hairy for them as well.
In sum, I wouldn't be booking anyone in either the east or west tickets for Atlanta just yet.
Mike says:
posted on November 2, 2003 01:26 AM — linkWait till the BCS comes out Monday night. Then the fun REALLY starts.
Does USC hop FSU despite thier weak schedule?
Where does Miami fit in?
And what about VT, Ohio State, and LSU?
By the way, has anyone forgotten TCU and that headache?TigerEducated says:
posted on November 2, 2003 01:56 PM — linkDoes it really matter who comes out of the East if LSU wins out?
Is ANYONE under the delusion that the Tigers won't hand the Eastern Division's representative in the SECCG a serious beatdown, "red headed stepchild" style?
LSU's starting quarterback was 18-20 last night, and we rushed for 280+. Our defense held that somewhat vaunted passing attack to under 50% completions, and less than 200 yards passing total.
You guys can talk about the SEC East, but LSU is going to rape and pillage whoever's left on its schedule, starting with Payroll Tide coming up in two weeks...
An LSU team with an extra week off to get healthy for the stretch run against a weak, depleted Bama, yet another SEC charlatan in Ole Miss, and a totally undermanned and overmatched Arkansas squad?
Not to be guilty of hubris here, but the East is just the messy details. LSU is on a mission, and I ain't talking about the kind that BYU quarterbacks go on, either...
Kevin says:
posted on November 2, 2003 02:15 PM — linkTE - rant all you like about your game against directional Louisiana or whatever they're calling themselves. You & I know that was cream-puff and no better than a scrimmage.
LSU seems to be a powerhouse and -- I agree -- they look to be on track to dismantle someone in Atlanta.
Chris Lawrence says:
posted on November 2, 2003 09:56 PM — linkIf LSU beats Ole Miss on November 22, I'll gladly concede that LSU is the best team in the West; until then, you take care of your business, and we'll take care of ours.
As for the title game, I think LSU and Ole Miss are both capable of beating whoever comes out of the East. However, I still wouldn't want to face Georgia in the Georgia Dome, even if I was Oklahoma.
Derek says:
posted on November 2, 2003 10:19 PM — linkIs ANYONE under the delusion that the Tigers won't hand the Eastern Division's representative in the SECCG a serious beatdown, "red headed stepchild" style?
Yeah, I mean, they've already pounded Florida, right? Oh, wait a sec...
I don't think anyone is a lock to win the SEC title.
Mike says:
posted on November 2, 2003 10:35 PM — linkIf UT manages to win the SEC title, the executives at the BCS will be drunk till February. Does anyone want to see Tennessee play Virginia Tech in the Orange Bowl?
Pete Holiday says:
posted on November 3, 2003 03:35 AM — linkSo LSU is the "powerhouse" eh?
1. Lost to Florida
2. Beats up on a cream-puff schedule
3. Squeaked out a win against Georgia
4. Failed to score in the second half against LA Tech
5. Has as many losses as impressive wins.Yeah. I can see how you'd claim they're the best team in the SEC with a track record like that.
TE, this is the SEC -- if you don't realize by now that nothing (and I mean NOTHING) is a lock, you obviously aren't quite as "Educated" as your moniker suggests.
TigerEducated says:
posted on November 3, 2003 07:50 PM — link1.) I can't make any excuses for the egg we laid against Florida, but then again, Florida might be the 2nd or 3rd best team in the conference.
2.) Our creampuff schedule is not totally by our own design. We had Marshall and Bowling Green scheduled this year, and they both backed out. Matter of fact, after we signed a home and home with VT, and they beat us to open the year last year (after going behind our back and scheduling a game before that one themselves), but they recently backed out citing "other conflicts" even though LSU is offering to rearrange its schedule and actually PAY VT...So, to be honest, we had no control over those teams being AFRAID to play in Death Valley.
3.) That "squeak" was actually a 17-3 score. That's right, oh wise old sage, UGA didn't do SQUAT till they "squeaked" one out of their arses on that 93 yard jailbreak scheme. Other than that, Greene throws for 19-43 for 151 yards and ZERO TD's. A real "squeaker", lemme tell ya...
4.) You want to say we "failed"? We got guys from the scout squad letters on Saturday. We called the dogs off BIGTIME, my friend. I'm sorry you only look at final scores of the games your team isn't directly involved in, but try bringing a little more to the table in a discussion about the relative merits of this team and others than, "Well, I saw on my pager Saturday night that they were up 49-3 at the half, and they only won 49-10. They must SUCK!"
5.) My friend, UGA was an impressive win. Thanks for admitting that. Next came South Carolina, who's played within a whisker of two teams that are at the top of their respective divisions of the SEC in Tennessee (lost in OT; shredded their defense on the road with a Freshmen tailback we THROTTLED for ZERO yards team rushing!), and Ole Miss (who allowed them to SCORCH them for 40 points and an almost win)...Then we beat Auburn, who was on a 5 game win streak and had reached the Top 20 in the country. EVERYONE was on their bandwagon, and we PISTOLWHIPPED THEM!
Then last night, everyone's saying Tech's going to put up all kinds of yardage on this defense? Well, we just held the McCown kid to his worst night in his career (40+ starts), and they actually benched him late. Both he and his coach said that LSU is a better team than MIAMI, and that's verifiable. You gonna debate the coach that's played against both of them, or the 4 year starter at quarterback who's lined up and beat Mich St. on the road, and lost to both Miami and LSU?
Here's a "lock" for you, like I've "locked" every other win I've predicted since I've found this interesting little encleve of SEC Football sports on the internet...
LSU is the best team in the SEC, and they will decimate and destroy all in their path, regardless of race, color, creed, with EXTREME PREJUDICE
It's a LOCK...and I'll be here to back it up, baby...Will you be here to admit that I'm right, and I have been during my entire tenure here?
Kevin says:
posted on November 3, 2003 08:04 PM — linkI don't care what anybody says, TigerEd is a genius. Let's see how the Tigers do coming out of the bye week, TE. Historically, LSU has a habit of checking out mentally.
Pete - talk to Shula and tell him about TE's "lock". Maybe that will work for the game.
Will someone please post anything about LSU so TE can share his thoughts without having to hold anything back?! ;-)
Pete Holiday says:
posted on November 4, 2003 02:13 PM — link1.) Not even you could explain away that one.
2.) Excuses, excuses -- the WHY doesn't matter.
3.) 17-10. A touchdown is a touchdown. It's worth the same number of points from your goal line as your opponent's. It was a one touchdown ball game, wholly unimpressive on the part of both teams.
4.) Try reading the post -- I said you failed to score IN THE SECOND HALF. Now, that's only not true if you weren't TRYING to score in the second half which, given the sportsman-like way LSU ran up the score on other nobody teams, I seriously doubt to be the case.
5.) If you were impressed by the UGA win, I'm sorry that you haven't seen better games. Tennessee (as we've seen) is not that good. South Carolina is not that good. Auburn alternates between looking like a pro-team and looking like a high school team enough that Tuberville wonders whether he should have nap time or a salary cap. Miami-LSU would be a good game, and I'd give it to the home team either way although it'd be a lot closer at LSU than at Miami.
"LSU is the best team in the SEC, and they will decimate and destroy all in their path, regardless of race, color, creed, with EXTREME PREJUDICE"Just like they did Florida and Georgia, right?
"It's a LOCK...and I'll be here to back it up, baby...Will you be here to admit that I'm right, and I have been during my entire tenure here?"I've said before, and I'll say again, you've been more than off-base more often than not during your tenure here. While I agree with most of your final conclusions, you greatly exaggerate LSU's abilities (as one would expect an LSU fan to) -- make more of their wins than they're worth and blow off the loss to florida like it was some freak-accident.
But, since you're so wise, knowledgeable, and in-tune with the SEC, I'm sure you'll have no problem picking the LSU/Alabama margin of victory -- so what's it gonna be?
TigerEducated says:
posted on November 4, 2003 08:31 PM — linkI didn't know I ever spoke about being a Vegas line setter, but here goes...How's this for homerism...
LSU- 1,000,000,000,000,002 (safety with 6:00 to go in the 4th; Croyle limps back out on one leg after Lavalais eats the other off-literally-during a stunt blitz scheme early in the first and falls into his own endzone when Randall Gay kicks his crutch out from underneath his non-throwing hand...)
Bama- Negative 7 (Referees were so appalled by Shula and the rest of the teams performance they took points off the board).
I may be off by a few scores, one way or the other, we don't know what will happen when LSU's Parade and HS All-American backups go in to tenderize what's left of the USDA Grade "E" beef that Bama trots out there for "tiger bait". ;-)
If I had to take my Purple & Gold Oakley's off, and sit down and think this through objectively, as opposed to the slightly subjective score I just gave, so that I can appease you...
LSU has scored no less than 30+ points in every game save for their two worst offensive performances, IE-versus Jawja and FU.
I see Alabama as a weak team with a weak coach with a weak staff with weak depth with weak chances for a win...
I'll call it here...
LSU-35
UA-13Now, I've never been one to predict scores...I've been one to predict outcomes...and the outcome here is that LSU will overmatch and overpower a poor football team from a proud program. Thanks, Mike Dubose!
As for your rebuttals to my point by point answer to your five points you made, I'm guessing by now that no answer or justification on my part will satisfy you, so I'll let them stand on their own...yeah, right...
1.) You're right. I didn't make an excuse. I don't have one.
2.) The why certainly does matter. That's like your best friend saying, "Pete, I had to borrow your car, your wife's water broke and she needed a ride to the hospital to have your child!"...and you replying by saying, "The WHY doesn't matter! You took my car!"
3.) Unimpressive on the part of both teams, eh? What has heretofore been the single greatest game played between Southeastern Conference opponents thusfar this year, by the top two defenses in the conference, is wholly unimpressive to you?
Just what would impress you? I hesitate to think that the Holy Trinity coming down and blessing the water in your fridge would have you respond by saying, "Well, we ran it through the Pur Water Purifier, so it wasn't like it was BAD for us or anything."
Ask any head coach in this league, son. Winning is winning. Whether you win by an inch or a mile, if you win, it just don't matter. Ohio State's won how many games this year by a touchdown or less? That's right, I can't even remember, but it's more than four, and they've beaten 4 ranked teams. But, no one cares about the manner they went about winning. They care about the result. This is the one place where the WHY doesn't seem to matter.
I liken OSU-by the way-to the Baltimore Ravens. They win ugly, but they take those wins and get the hell out of town. The OSU impresses me with their toughness.
4.) We were not trying to do anything but play the game. As Herman Edwards says, "You play to win the game. Hello?" You're right. We didn't score in the 2nd half. The playing we did was in the 1st half, and we used to 2nd half to get some backups some realtime experience, to work on some things, and we struggled to find an offensive continuity. This is because Matt Mauck was creeping up on the Consecutive Completions mark at LSU, and we took him out before he got there. Before Randall and the O could get a rhythm, we put Mauck back out there to see if he could get it. When someone finally dropped one, we took him back out, and from there, our backups learned our system in a game time environment with the lights on. Sorry that our scout squad scored against Zona and Western Illinois, but didn't punch enough in for your liking against La Tech. You'll just have to learn to live with disappointment on that one.
5.) Actually, Pete, you made the point initially that we had as many losses as impressive wins. I'm taking for granted you spoke about the LSU/UGA game there. Which means YOU admitted it was impressive, and I merely agreed with you. You're contradicting yourself now if you go back and say that you're sorry I'm impressed with something you were initially the one to bring up your level of impressment with...
(Don't feel bad, I don't mind helping you figure things out. Not everyone's as enlightened as I am.)
Pete Holiday says:
posted on November 4, 2003 11:32 PM — linkTE -- Methinks you need to get a blog of your own. :)
I'll admit that my terminology was not clear. By "impressive wins" I meant "wins over teams that aren't awful", not that the manner in which the game was won was impressive (which it wasn't, and if that's the most impressive SEC game you've seen, you haven't watched very many)
I don't think Shula is any weaker than he is young, I think what you meant is a weak team with a young coach and weak depth. The staff is certainly not weak, and the chances to win certainly aren't either. It seems that the tougher the game, the better Bama plays (See Oklahoma, Tennessee). I don't know that Alabama will be able to pull it together to get a win against LSU, and this is a game that I wouldn't want to be betting on -- it could be a 3 point game, could be a 40 point game, there's just no telling.
I guess we'll just have to see how it goes. Roll Tide.
PS: I hope Saban and the players feel the same way about the game that you do -- it'll look like last year all over again, just with a new venue.Chris Lawrence says:
posted on November 5, 2003 04:05 PM — linkFrankly I'd be shocked to find out, definitively, that any SEC school - even Vandy - didn't have players geting some money under the table. There are far more players in this league tooling around in late-model SUVs than can be accounted for by their families' wherewithal.
I'm not saying it's condoned by the universities, or the ADs or the coaches (as it apparently was at Bama and may have been at Auburn, if you buy the Bowden allegations). But anyone who thinks there's not at least one kid at LSU, Ole Miss, or any other school in this league with a booster's ATM or debit card in his wallet is kidding himself.
Pete Holiday says:
posted on November 5, 2003 06:17 PM — linkYou're out of your league now, TE... If you wanna talk sanctions, we'll talk. I've read virtually all of the NCAA and Alabama documents on the issue... go ahead and poke fun if you feel you need to, but realize that the most recent barage of sanctions are a crock.
"I'm not saying it's condoned by the universities, or the ADs or the coaches (as it apparently was at Bama...)"
That's a misconception. The NCAA APPLAUDED Alabama for their compliance and stated numerous times that there was nothing (yes, nothing) University could have done to prevent the infractions.
TigerEducated says:
posted on November 5, 2003 06:45 PM — linkPete...Have you ever read the book "Bragging Rights: A season in the SEC"?
Trust me, I read the initial sanction letters, the Official LOI from the NCAA sent to Alabama, and all I can say is whether you want to blame your coach or you want to blame Ivy Williams or you want to blame your boosters, your program was beset by men with absolutely unscrupulous ideas about influencing their program's success on the field by enticing player's and their signings with your program with cash payments, car's being bought, etc.
Chris Lawrence says:
posted on November 5, 2003 10:23 PM — linkPete: thanks for the clarification, and I withdraw the suggestion of involvement by Bama officials; the coverage of the Means scandal in these parts never made it clear--at least to me--how much (if any) institutional role there was in the violations.
(Of course, this is all getting massively off-topic for the SEC East race this thread was supposed to be about.)
Pete Holiday says:
posted on November 6, 2003 01:16 AM — linkTE: "Trust me, I read the initial sanction letters, the Official LOI from the NCAA sent to Alabama..."
Only read one side of the story -- sounds about right.
Chris: Yeah, when it comes right down to it, the NCAA punished a group of complete innocents (by their own admission) in order to account for the things done by people so far removed from the program it's pitiful. Did 'Bama deserve sanctions? Oh yeah. Did we deserve half what they gave us? Hell no.Besides, I also agree that you'd be hard-pressed to find a team in a major conference that doesn't have violations coming out their ears, but I digress...
