October 4, 2007
Red River Dropout - OU, Texas among lowest in grad rates
While the players are preparing for this weekend's Oklahoma - Texas game, the NCAA is starting to question what the schools are doing to prepare the players to graduate.
According to the latest NCAA report, the Horns are graduating 42 percent of their players. The only DI-A schools ranked worse that UT are Georgia (41%), Arizona (41%) and San Jose State (36%). Oklahoma isn't fairing much better with a 44 percent graduation rate. The average graduation rate for DI-A schools is 67 percent.
In other words, Texas is ranked #115 in the country. Oklahoma is ranked #113.
The numbers were based on incoming freshmen from 1997 to 2000 graduating within six years. This is the third year the NCAA has released its own data. UT's football program actually improved on a 40 percent rate in the figures released last year. Oklahoma was down from 52 percent.
According to the numbers compiled by the Dallas Morning News, Baylor leads the Big XII in football graduation rates. Statistically, the Big XII South is taking a whooping from the North Division.
Baylor 84
Colorado 68
Iowa State 55
Kansas 56
Kansas State 73
Missouri 60
Nebraska 83
Oklahoma 44
Oklahoma State 64
Texas 42
Texas A&M 62
Texas Tech 79
Comments:
OU-Ron
posted on October 4, 2007 7:29 PM — 72.198.24.199 — link — abuse?
said:
Speaking as just a fan, I’m surprised at these stats, I guess I just assumed that the athletes graduated. I honestly never thought about this. I mean aren’t their grades monitored, surely a student would not play sports for 4 or 5 years and then just quit before he finishes school. And I know that there’s not that many go to the pros that early. So someone tell me why.
hrposon said:
posted on October 4, 2007 8:53 PM — 98.200.123.115 — link — abuse?
Notre Dame sets high standards for it's student athletes and is paying the price in recruiting. I haven't heard a whole lot of sympathy around here for the Irish.
It's my understanding that at Texas the athletes actually take their own tests. I'm not sure that all schools actually adhere to that little detail.
OU Fan said:
posted on October 5, 2007 5:30 AM — 84.146.26.32 — link — abuse?
Do they factor athletes departing to the NFL, athletes getting kicked off the team, and athletes transferring to different schools? OU-Ron post #3, I must agree. As fan, I assumed that the majority of the athletes graduated. I'm shocked because 42% is not very good. BOOMER SOONER!
OU-Ron
posted on October 5, 2007 8:45 AM — 216.201.209.146 — link — abuse? said:
@11 hrposon, No, it's my time to host the RRS party at my home this year. Both of my son's will be at the game, they will be leaving at 7:30 am this morning to make the trip to Dallas. You can't believe all the things that go on between Okla City and Dallas, local radio and tv personalities set up stop stations along the way, even the local Law enforcement gets involved (in a good way). My relatives from Houston and my family host the party each year, next year will be in Houston.GO SOONERS
FanoftheGame said:
posted on October 5, 2007 10:48 AM — 198.211.223.194 — link — abuse?
Don't get me wrong...I'm all for educating all of these young men to the extent of graduating, but we might be holding these athletes to a higher standard than the typical student. I agree that 40% graduation rates are low, but I believe the national average for all college students (not just athletes) that end up graduating is around 40% as well. Now, the average student doesn't have to contend with practices, games, traveling and all of the other things that take up a good portion of the student athlete's time. The fact that some of these schools exceed the national average for graduation by a huge margin is amazing. Kudos to those schools like Baylor and Nebraska for doubling the National average in graduating these kids.
Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.Tampa Hurricane
posted on October 5, 2007 11:00 AM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse? said:
FanoftheGame, where did you get your statistics that only 40% of all college students end up graduating? That number sounds awfully low. Did you know that 74% of all statistics are made up? It sounds like your graduation rate is one of these.
posted on October 5, 2007 11:24 AM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse?War Eagle Atlanta
said:
It's '83% of statistics are made up on the spot'. No, last I saw, around 70% of all students graduate within 5 years. Keep in mind that these NCAA rates are for 6 years, I believe.
Anyone know where I can get college ringtones downloaded to my phone for free?
Tampa Hurricane
posted on October 5, 2007 11:42 AM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse? said:
War Eagle Atlanta, is it 83%? When I originally heard it, it was from a drunk guy I was playing poker with and he said 74, but I would be more inclined to believe you than a drunk poker player (unless you are posting drunk now. Are you?). I just knew that the 40% graduation rate that FanoftheGame stated was too low.
FanoftheGame said:
posted on October 5, 2007 12:08 PM — 198.211.223.194 — link — abuse?
Tampa Hurricane
There are several articles on the web that cover this particular subject. Most of which have the student graduation rate for colleges between 45 - 55 %. I have not personally conducted a survey of all the colleges in the U.S. to verify all of the studies that have been conducted.I wasn't trying to mislead anyone that didn't bother to do their own research on the subject. I was merely stating what I've read. However, if the basis for your arguement roots from the education you received from a drunk guy at a card game, then I understand your confusion.
Here is one of the articles I've read, but there are many others.
Matrix: The Magazine for Leaders in Education, Oct, 2001 by Al Branch
FanoftheGame said:
posted on October 5, 2007 12:40 PM — 198.211.223.194 — link — abuse?
Tampa Hurricane
Here are a few more:
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=768867
http://diverseeducation.com/artman/publish/article_9547.shtml
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/sep/23/fouryear_degree_elusive_many/
http://technique.library.gatech.edu/issues/spring1998/apr17/campuslife3.html
Tampa Hurricane
posted on October 5, 2007 1:17 PM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse? said:
Fanofthegame, If "as many as 40 percent of college students will not have finished a degree in six years", (your last link) how does that equate to your "average for all college students (not just athletes) that end up graduating is around 40%". Simple math states that if 40 percent don't finish with a degree in 6 years than 60 percent do. To go from this 60% down to your 40%, do 20% of students decide after they graduate that their degree is worthless and decide to give it up?
FanoftheGame said:
posted on October 5, 2007 2:08 PM — 198.211.223.194 — link — abuse?
Tampa Hurricane
My intentions were not to get you all upset. But I am glad that my posts have encouraged you to read a little. Again, I do not personally know how many students quit college without a degree, I haven't polled the country. Keep reading. Break down the percentage of black athletes in college football, then look at the rate of black students that do not finsish college. Those numbers may make you think a little deeper. Most coaches are graduating more than the natioanl average based on ethnic background.
You seem to proud of 60% graduating, so we can go with that. It's ashame you weren't one of the 60%. We probably wouldn't be having this conversation.FanoftheGame said:
posted on October 5, 2007 2:15 PM — 198.211.223.194 — link — abuse?
Guys, my point is this.
If graduation rates are whats really important, then we should be praising schools like Nebraska and Baylor for helping these kids get their degrees, rather than bashing OU and Texas for keeping up with the national average for all students given ethnic backgrounds and social classes.
Tampa Hurricane
posted on October 5, 2007 2:31 PM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse? said:
FanoftheGame, first off, from your quote of "It's ashame you weren't one of the 60%" where did you get that stupid opinion. As I have been proud to state on multiple different blogs, I have multiple degrees (Bachelor of Business Administration and Master of Professional Accounting) from the University of Miami, so I don't understand in your uneducated mind how that can equate to me not being one of the 60% that graduates.
Second, how can you state that OU and Texas keep up with the national average when they graduate 44% and 42%, respectively. OU is 27% below the national average and Texas is 30% below the national average. I would believe that that is well below the national average.
Also, you need to look deeper into the graduation rates. These rates that list 60% of students graduate, include students from all type of colleges. The graduation rate for lower level commuter colleges is far lower than the graduation rate of major universities. If you remove these commuter student universities from the equation, then even you should be able to see that OU and Texas have terrible graduation rates. Graduation rates should be more important to the NCAA and they should ban schools like OU, Texas, Georgia, and Arizona from playing in post-season tournaments, and bowl games until they get respectible graduation rates!
FanoftheGame said:
posted on October 5, 2007 2:46 PM — 198.211.223.194 — link — abuse?
Tampa HurricaneThis research was based on 4 year colleges and universities, not JUCO or community colleges.
Based on this, UT and OU seem to be at or near the National average. Please feel free to provide some sources (other than 2 drunks playing "Go Fish") so that we can see whats confusing you.http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2001/fyi/teachers.ednews/08/15/college.dropout.ap/
taken from the article-
BOSTON, Massachusetts (Reuters) -- Less than 50 percent of U.S. college students entering four-year colleges or universities actually graduate, researchers at Council for Aid to Education (CAE) said in a report.
"And that's a conservative estimate," said Richard Hersh who coauthored the report on the quality of higher education for the National Governors Association.
Backing up the CAE report, figures from ACT, formerly the American College Testing Service, show the graduation rate at four-year public institutions fell to 41.9 percent in 2000, while the rate at private schools was 55.1 percent.
FanoftheGame said:
posted on October 5, 2007 2:59 PM — 198.211.223.194 — link — abuse?
This is actually a very cool website with regards to graduation rates. It has a great breakdown of each state as well as the national average for graduation(55% for 2005). Based on this research some of the schools in question are relatively close to their state average.
Tampa Hurricane
posted on October 5, 2007 3:02 PM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse? said:
FanoftheGame, your last link has a stat that says "as many as 40 percent of college students will not have finished a degree in six years", some math for you since you are confused: if 40% don't graduate than that means that 60% graduate.
If OU has a graduation rate of 44% than they are 16 percentage points below the national average which equates to 27%. How can you seriously state that 27% lower than the average is keeping up with the national average?
If Texas has a graduation rate fo 42% than they are 18 percentage points below the national average which equates to 30%. Again, how can you seriously state that 30% lower than the average is keeping up with the national average?
Don't post links trying to support your opinion, and then state that you don't like the facts that they have on them. your link is here: http://technique.library.gatech.edu/issues/spring1998/apr17/campuslife3.html
Tampa Hurricane
posted on October 5, 2007 3:07 PM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse? said:
That higheredinfo.org link has some great stats. I guess it just shows that people in Oklahoma are too stupid to graduate from college, so OU should not be knocked for being so low. Comparing Texas to the state average it still appears to be low.
The national average of 55% is still a lot higher than you originally posted of 40%. It is actually very close to the 60% that I stated above.
FanoftheGame said:
posted on October 5, 2007 3:55 PM — 198.211.223.194 — link — abuse?
Tampa Hurricane
I agree that the 6 year graduation rate is misleading. Since we are talking about student athletes, it is probably more fair to give them even less time to graduate, since they would have lost their eligibility after 5 years with a redshirt (more if granted by the NCAA for injury or other)and no longer athletes for the University. A better assessment would be to see how many students graduate after 4 years. If you honestly believe the 60% of all students graduate college in just four years than you are the idiot you appear to be. However, if the U of Miami keeps these kids around for as long as it takes them to graduate 6,8,10 years, then good for them.
Apparently your argument stems from your hatred of OU and UT. I myself, don't usually cheer for either program, but I try not to let it cloud my judgement of the 2 schools. You probably don't want to believe that at a rate of almost 20%, white athletes graduate more than black athletes. Based on your previous comments about OU, it is safe to assume that you think that black athletes are too stupid to graduate anyway and maybe the NCAA shouldn't allow them to play for the Naval Academy, Boston College or Notre Dame (where there graduation rates are equal to that white athletes). You must be very proud of yourself.I have no problem with the sources I posted in defense of my argument. Again, you may want to keep reading a little closer with attention to the dates of these studies. And please feel free to use the dates that best support your dream.
OU-Ron
posted on October 5, 2007 4:39 PM — 216.201.209.146 — link — abuse? said:
@34 Tampa, not sure how to take your comment about people in Okla being to stupid to graduate, if that statement is your opinion, then I view it as an asshole, and you have an extra large one. If you said it because you have problem with FanoftheGame then you need to keep it between you two, either way that was a stupid thing to say.
OU Fan said:
posted on October 5, 2007 5:08 PM — 84.146.11.90 — link — abuse?
Tampa Hurricane post #34, first of all notice the statement "the NCAA is starting to question what the schools are doing to prepare the players to graduate." Notice the word players. Now, this website is strictly about college football, so any way you look at this article, to me its referring to college football only. Oklahoma gets most of their football players from the state of Texas. And like I said, from how I see it this blog's topic is about college football only. So, for you to say "I guess it just shows that people in Oklahoma are too stupid to graduate from college" to me is a stupid comment. If you want me to get technical, I hope my children never attend the University of Miami because I fear them having to worry about getting shot while they are walking to their classes. Do you see what I'm saying?? There was no reason for that comment. Is that Miami loss to Oklahoma still bothering you?? BOOMER SOONER!
posted on October 5, 2007 5:27 PM — 64.12.116.136 — link — abuse? said:
Georgia finished last in the SEC in graduation rates and GA Tech finished last in the ACC, according to the AJC. That's pretty shameful for the two flagship schools of my home state.
Good thing I crossed over the Chattahoochie to get an education...
CycloneDean said:
posted on October 6, 2007 9:50 AM — 75.23.240.150 — link — abuse?
Big Tide, I think you're on to something. If they haven't graduated when their eligibility is up, they probably have to start paying for their education. Many student athletes may not have the resources or the drive to continue their education on their own w/out the public paying for it.
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DMANLV said:
posted on October 4, 2007 6:29 PM — 68.224.30.32 — link — abuse?Kudos to the University of Nebraska. Way to hold up your end of the bargain and not forgetting That these players are suppost to be student athletes.