July 9, 2007
Fire Mike Leach?
Texas Tech football coach Mike Leach gets a lot of attention for his performances off the field. Whether it's his part-time weatherman gig or his love affair with pirates and pirate lore, the fans love the Red Raiders coach.
What sometimes escapes the public eye, however, is Leach's resume as head coach at Texas Tech. Despite all the hype, the fact remains that -- in seven seasons with Mike Leach as head coach -- Texas Tech has yet to sniff a division championship, let alone a Big XII title. So, is it time for the Red Raiders to cut their losses and look for a new football coach?
Mike Leach is signed at Texas Tech through 2010. He is scheduled to make $1.65 million in 2007, $1.75 million in 2008, $1.85 million in 2009 and $2.15 million in 2010, with completion bonuses if he is still with the school ($800,000 through 2009 and $200,000 through 2010). Leach's contract has a $500,000 buy-out clause that he must pay if he leaves Tech before the deal is up.
Let's examine the record.
In seven season, Mike Leach has won nine games only once. And while he's never had a losing season in Lubbock (63% winning percentage), Leach has averaged nearly five losses per year. To his credit, though, Leach has taken the team to a bowl game in each of his seven seasons.
Red Raider fans point to his attacking offense as a signature Leach element, but his teams hold just a +206 scoring delta against the conference. That statistic is vastly inflated, however, by the seven games against Big XII South division mate Baylor. If you take out those games against the Bears and measure Leach against the eleven public schools, the Red Raiders have actually been OUTSCORED under Mike Leach by 52 points.
Everybody knows that -- year in and year out -- the road to a Big XII championship runs through Austin, Norman and Lincoln. In the words of Ric Flair, to be the champ, you have to beat the champ. If you take just the cream of the conference, Mike Leach has been outscored by 245 points by the elite teams in the conference (Texas, Oklahoma, and Nebraska) -- an average of almost two touchdowns per game.
While Leach's teams are 30-23 against the conference, the Red Raiders are 2-12 against Texas and Oklahoma under Leach.
To his credit, Leach graduates kids. The American Football Coaches Association recognized Texas Tech for having a greater than 70 percent graduation rate, in a era where most schools are well under that mark. In the latest NCAA Academic Progress Rate (APR) report, the football team achieved a 928 score versus the NCAA Division I-A average of 930.
And Leach has run a pretty clean program in Lubbock, with only a slight blemish two years ago when he personally signed orders for 15 banned supplements. However, I write that off to someone sticking an order form in Leach's face and saying "sign this, coach". Yes, he should have known better, but I don't think Leach was trying to cheat, per se. He's had a few kids get in trouble with the law (parole violations, shoplifting), but that can (and does?) happen to any coach. You can't babysit kids 24/7/365.
So..... In seven years, Leach has shown that he's going to win seven or eight games and get his teams into a bowl game. He runs a clean program and graduates his kids. He is tied for third on the list of seasons without a BCS bowl game appearance.He hasn't positioned his team to win against Texas or Oklahoma and -- in turn -- has yet to win a division or conference championship.
Is it time for Texas Tech to fire Mike Leach and find a coach that can win a Big XII championship in Lubbock? How much more rope should the Red Raiders give Leach?
Comments:
James said:
posted on July 9, 2007 11:54 AM — 65.103.109.73 — link — abuse?
Defense, Defense, Defense. That is the only thing that has held Leach and co back. If Tech had their Defense of the mid 90's and their current offense, they would be close to unstopable. When Leach finds a Defense he will win a conferance championship.
Zac said:
posted on July 9, 2007 1:11 PM — 65.31.230.72 — link — abuse?
Personally, I can't imagine this. Let's see: 7 years, all winning seasons, 7 bowl trips, not to mention, he graduates his kids. This looks a lot better than Don Nehlan's 1st 7 seasons at WVU, and nobody was looking to fire him. Why fire Leach; for that matter, why even consider it? If TX Tech needs to do anything, they should find him a decent Defensive Coordinator. Otherwise, they should be grateful for what they have. It's hard enough to find a good head coach, not to mention a coaching staff that works well together. I think if they work on their defense and their recruiting, the championships will come.
RedRaiderRich said:
posted on July 9, 2007 1:28 PM — 69.30.141.119 — link — abuse?
As a die-hard Red Raider, this was a painful read for me. There are very valid (and frustratingly true) points made. But I think more of the blame should go to the defensive side of the ball and not the offensive. Tech has often proven able to score on anyone (with a few exceptions I know), but usually cannot stop anyone from scoring. However, since Leach is the person who chooses the defensive coordinator I guess he is ultimately responsible. Presently he is so loyal to Lyle Setencich (since Setencich gave Leach his first coaching job) that I doubt there will be a change anytime soon unless it is Setencich who instigates it. But it is in Leach's best interest to hire a different defensive coordinator or else Leach will have to go down with his sinking ship. So I think the article should read, "Fire Lyle Setencich" (note the absence of the question mark).
posted on July 9, 2007 2:07 PM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue said:
@James - Isn't it the HC who hires/fires the DC? Shouldn't we hold Leach accountable for both sides of the ball?
@Zac - Isn't it the HC who hires/fires the DC? Shouldn't we hold Leach accountable for both sides of the ball?
@RedRaiderRich - Isn't it the HC who hires/fires the DC? Shouldn't we hold Leach accountable for both sides of the ball?
Sorry to beat a dead horse there guys, but giving Leach a pass on defense is exactly the mindset that has held Texas Tech back for the last few years, at least in my opinion.
Diggs the Mountie said:
posted on July 9, 2007 2:18 PM — 76.21.147.86 — link — abuse?
My opinion is that if Leach does in fact get fired.......TTU can kiss their recently decent success goodbye. Yes, their defense is what's holding them back but if you get rid of their "bread and butter" (their offense) I see nothing but dismal years to come.......and a lot of them.
RedRaiderRich said:
posted on July 9, 2007 3:08 PM — 69.30.141.119 — link — abuse?
Kevin, we are not giving Leach a pass on defense and with respect to the others you are referring to (#6), we all state that the defense is what is hurting Leach and Tech. In fact I state, "it is in Leach's best interest to hire a different defensive coordinator". We all know that Leach is accountable for the defense because he hires the DC. I am not quite sure what it is you feel you are arguing with us about.
posted on July 9, 2007 3:09 PM — link — abuse?
@Diggs - I disagree. While Lubbock isn't Austin, it's not exactly a bad gig.
It's not unreasonable to think that Texas Tech could have quite a few options out there with coaches that want to step into a BCS gig with a strong alumni group.
Hell, Dykes didn't exactly suck at Tech, right? So I'm not convinced that football will cease to exist at Tech if Leach is gone.
Diggs the Mountie said:
posted on July 9, 2007 3:22 PM — 76.21.147.86 — link — abuse?
@ Kevin,
Not saying that football will cease to exist in Lubbock.....I just think that it would set them back like quite a bit. With that said.....it sounds to me like Leach needs to do something about the D quickly.
James said:
posted on July 9, 2007 3:27 PM — 65.103.109.73 — link — abuse?
Kevin,
I'm not giving him a pass at all, just pointing out what his problem has been. I think his ability to hire / fire someone that has such a huge impact on a team has been abysmal.Was it 03 or 04 when Tech had the best offense in the nation and the worst defense? He should have taken drastic measures after that season.
gatorhippy said:
posted on July 9, 2007 4:19 PM — 70.121.185.56 — link — abuse?
Leach's seven year record is right in line with TT football history as records are concerned...
Actually slightly better when averaged...
MHO is that he has been the guy to bring them out of the shadow of TT's early '90s eligibilty scandal and actually put them in the B-12 hunt each year...
Just because a team doesn't seem to develop on defense and can beat the bejeezus out of lesser conference opponents but hangs tight with the credible ones because of poor defense doesn't mean he should be fired...
Couple examples to draw from that look at both a long tenured coach and a coach that has been in his current spot about the same time frame as Leach...FSU...
Bowden didn't even win his first MNC until 1993 almost twenty years after taking the FSU job...
Leading up to that 1988 year where the program really took off; the Noles were always right in the thick but losing 2-4 games each year...
But FSU admin and fans held on and believed and look how it turned out...
What if they had fired Bobby after his first seven seasons?
Things probably don't look so rosy for the Noles...
WVU...
They have never played staunch defense or won an MNC with their current HFC...
Rich Rod still has a job and nobody is talkin about firing him...
Granted RR has won a few BE titles...
But what else?
Leach coaches in a conference much tougher than the BE and has been able to build from a dark time in the program and sustain his limited success...
Along with minimal off-field instances and a terrific graduation rate...
Isn't the last two the reason CFB REALLY exists?
Be patient Red Raider fans...
Leach and the Raiders time will come...
posted on July 9, 2007 4:33 PM — link — abuse?
@James #11 - I couldn't agree more. The writing was on the wall right there and it was ignored. A change in 2004 might have vaulted Tech into a Big XII title game for the 2005 season.
@Barry - Can you taste the dirt with your head in the sand? ;)
@Gatorhippy - The comparison to Bowden is just not accurate. Leach has lost four or more games in six of the last seven seasons. Bowden lost four games or more games just four times in his first 25 years at FSU (1976-1st season, 1981, 1983, and 1986). C'mon, dude.
Actually, I think a good comparison for Leach is Ron Zook. He had his team in the top forty percent of the conference, right? Zook's teams went to bowls every season, but lost 4 or 5 games a year. Why did Florida make a move? Because Zook didn't show that he could get his teams over the hump.
I wonder if Tech fans believe that Leach can get his team over the hump, or if Texas Tech has five losses coming again this year. (I suspect they do, btw).
gatorhippy said:
posted on July 9, 2007 8:55 PM — 70.121.185.56 — link — abuse?
K-Hue (#14):
I'm looking at the "first seven years" window...
Not over 25 years, Kev...
Bowden averaged 3.14 losses his first 7 seasons at FSU...
Leach has averaged 4.74...
Game and a half difference isn't that much...
Given Bowden had the luxury of indendent scheduling his first seven years while Leach has been forced to build with a huge eligibility scandal in the rearview mirror...
It took Bowden nearly 20 years to get FSU over the "hump" and win a MNC...
That's my point...
Leach has put together a successful program in that his kids stay out of trouble and he graduates a boatload of them...
The wins will come...
Give him time...
OU Fan said:
posted on July 10, 2007 8:01 AM — 139.139.51.70 — link — abuse?
dcderby post 18, Texas Tech's record against ATM in the last 5 seasons is 5-1, and 1 of those games was last season in Collge Station. And 2 seasons ago, Tech beat OU in Lubbock. And in 2002, the Red Raiders beat Texas. I know its not consistent, but Tech has managed some big wins here and there. BOOMER SOONER!!
Lee said:
posted on July 10, 2007 8:25 AM — 72.26.146.189 — link — abuse?
"While Leach's teams...Texas Tech has never finished higher than fourth in the Big XII."
This statement is incorrect. In 2005, the loser of the conference championship game (Colorado, who lost to Texas) was not the second place team. By conference win %, Tech and OU tied at .750. However, Tech had the better overall win %, and, further, Tech beat OU straight up. Tech was SECOND. Out of 12 teams. Just one season removed (since 07 hasn't started yet).
posted on July 10, 2007 8:56 AM — link — abuse?
@Lee - you might be right on that one. I've edited the post to remove that, since it really immaterial to my point... which is... under Leach, TT has yet to win even their division.
gatorhippy said:
posted on July 10, 2007 10:03 AM — 70.121.185.56 — link — abuse?
On the other side of the coin...
I can concede that defense appears to be a severe problem for TT...
The perfect place for a hungry coach wanting to seperate and elevate his name into serious head coaching vacancy conversations by turning a porous toasted defense around...
Charlie Strong?
Lee said:
posted on July 10, 2007 10:43 AM — 64.185.49.39 — link — abuse?
Tech under Leach did beat Texas 2002 and had close losses in 2003 & 2006, beat OU 2005 and had a fairly close loss in 2006. Throwing out the 2004 win over Nebraska since Bill C. was new, TT did beat NU again in 2005 (and OU, too, in the same year).
However, the D feeds off the O and at times the O has stalled. More or less fix that, and I think the D gets fixed (refer to Insight Bowl, for example). The talk at Tech for years has centered on this scenario: “What if Tech had not only a returning qb, but a blue chip returning quarterback?” That’s where Tech is for 2007, and probably 2008, too. So if Tech doesn’t go BCS after 2008 season (since most think 2008 looks better than 2007) or at least play in the conference championship game, in my opinion Leach's future should be examined and the pulse of the TT faithful taken to see if we want to retain or dump Leach.
posted on July 10, 2007 10:49 AM — link — abuse?
@Lee - So you're putting him on a two year probation? I would just like to hear some TT fans start insisting on the Red Raiders getting to the next level.
Lee said:
posted on July 10, 2007 11:56 AM — 72.26.146.189 — link — abuse?
I do think, Kevin, at that time Leach's future should be seriously considered. Since Tech has reached Holi-Cotton status, most I think would view the next step as the CCG and/or a BCS bowl. And since most Tech faithful, in my view, think that Tech, being BigXII, should reach the CCG/BCS, if we don't after the Harrell years I don't see how a possible Leach-ceiling wouldn't be on a lot of minds.
Good off-season stuff, by the way. Never hurts to cast a critical look at a program.
Tomcat said:
posted on July 10, 2007 12:13 PM — 70.242.186.151 — link — abuse?
First off I for one was surprized at the title of this thread Kev.Texas Tech this past season had two really bad losses TCU & Colo, they also had two really big wins Tex A&M & Minn.
This season they travel to Stillwater & Austin, but they do have two of their toughest opponents at home OU and A&M.They start off against SMU and UTEP, the UTEP game ought to be a shootout and alot of fun to watch.
Mike Leach's press conferences and interveiws are really alot of fun to watch.During the XII media day his comments were plum arrogant and funny.During one game last year a female reporter tryed to interveiw the coach going to the lockerroom at the half. His comment was quote " Have a happy half time" and he ran away.
This guy is a very intellegent and entertaining coach, especially for his opponents.
The Red Raiders have a good program and Leach's air attack is very effective against some tough teams. When you play teams like OK St,UT, OU, Mizzu and UT having 4 or 5 losses really isnt that bad considering the strength of the competiton.
Hookem-Horns
posted on July 10, 2007 1:19 PM — link — abuse?
@Tomcat - So, as a UT fan, you're OK with Texas Tech keeping Leach. I think that makes my point. :)
B Dog said:
posted on July 10, 2007 2:39 PM — 71.154.3.221 — link — abuse?
The argument against him b/c of his record vs UT and OU is bunk. What is the rest of the conference's record against them in the past seven years? Or the rest of the country's for that matter? Those two programs have resources vastly superior to most universities in the country, Texas Tech included. If you look at Texas Tech's history prior to Leach, they would be pretty good for a year or two, then they would have a few seasons with 3,4,5 wins. he has made that program into a consistent winner (in a very tough division, mind you) that no one is excited to play against, especially in Lubbock.
Tomcat said:
posted on July 10, 2007 3:30 PM — 70.242.186.151 — link — abuse?
Ya Kevin Ok Ok
I was just thinking that after having the biggest bowl comeback in NCAA history that Leach's position at TTech would be favorable.
Having a returning quarterback is something that the Raiders havent had lateley.So the Raiders future looks pretty bright.
Playing in the XII south its hard for any team to excape without some losses including TTech.
Mike Leach is probably one of the only coaches that I can think of that was not a player and his off the feild comentary is very entertaining.
Those kind of things probably doesnt help his status, however the offensive results on the feild show that he is a brillant strategest.
On the contrary Kev it would probably be a benifit the Horns if they ran him off.
Now Fran at A&M is another story
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ad83jBB08c&NR=1
Hookem-Hornskmknez said:
posted on July 10, 2007 4:05 PM — 12.74.24.144 — link — abuse?
So, let me see if I understand this story! Mike Leach has won 63% of his games, and Fran is roughly about 50% in, what 5 years, and you are asking if LEACH should be fired?
Fran has the resources that Leach doesn't! Not since the '70s has Tech been a "Nat'l power" (ranking in the Top 10 for a couple of different seasons), and all of a sudden Leach is suppose to change all of that history, or lack thereof, in 7 years?
A&M has much more history, a bigger budget to work within, and a better recruiting base, but it's O.K for Fran to have a .500 record (in 5 seasons), and it's "hot-seat" time for ML since he "only" has won 63% of his games!
O.K, I guess I see your point! Yeah, right!
I guess this just proves that ANYBODY can have a website, and call themselves an expert!
OU-Ron said:
posted on July 10, 2007 4:27 PM — 216.201.209.146 — link — abuse?
The stats surprise me somewhat, I honestly thought and still do think Leach is doing a good job, and by the lack of response by the Tech fans tend to make me believe that they think so too. If Leach was to get fired, as far as I’m concerned, he could come back to OU at any time and be the OC again.
posted on July 10, 2007 5:24 PM — link — abuse?
@kmknez - On Coach Fran needs to put up, but he has only been there four years (not five). This is year five, so I think the heat starts to crank in College Station.
But don't get too lit just because someone had the sheer audacity to question if TT could do better than Leach, OK? Just go with the flow a little, bro. We're all just water cooler-ing the idea.
kmknez said:
posted on July 10, 2007 6:18 PM — 12.74.24.144 — link — abuse?
Kevin,
That's fine, I can "water-cool" with you all you want, and still show that your topic doesn't make sense! But, I guess you'd rather have hits to your site, instead of an article that makes sense, right?
So, basically, what you expect out of ML in 7 seasons is for Tech to be able to compete for Nat'l Champs, is that right?
FYI, pretty much every Big12 (since Leach took over) title winner, has challenged, or competed in a MNC game!
'00- OU (MNC champs)
'01- NU (Miami won)
'02- No big12 team
'03- OU (LSU won)
'04- OU (USC won)
'05-UT beat a GREAT USC team
'06- No big12 teamSo, in the 7 seasons that Leach has been there, if he HAD won the Big12 Champ. chances are VERY good, he would have played for a MNC! Is that what you expect from Tech?
Next, you go into his salary (are you implying he's overpaid compared to his results...did someone say Fran?)! This is probably the first time in a LONNNNG time, Tech has been competitive with salary! Looks like ML is 5th in the Big12 (behind NU, UT, OU, and of course A&M)! That's generally where Tech finishes within the conference (except they are usually ahead of A&M)! So, no, I don't think he's overpaid for his results! Fran is!
posted on July 10, 2007 7:39 PM — link — abuse?
@kmknez - You really don't care for Fran, huh? ;) And that's OK - I don't think a lot aTm fans are that fond of him right now either.
Since you want to attack me personally, too, I would just point out that I've attempted to evaluate a lot of coaches in much the same way over the last five years. It's nothing personal, at least to me. I just try to ask objectively - would I be happy if I was a fan at "x" school.
But the question isn't what I expect from Leach, the question is -- or should be -- what do Texas Tech fans expect from Mike Leach?
Do Red Raider fans expect Leach to do something to improve the defense? I would. What is he doing about it? Is that enough? Are TT fans satisfied with 2-12 against UT & OU? What is Leach doing about it and is it enough? Do Red Raider fans expect TT to compete for the Big XII year-in and year-out? I sure would, so what is Leach doing about it?
Just because YOU don't expect any more from Texas Tech doesn't mean that others don't.
kmknez said:
posted on July 10, 2007 9:12 PM — 12.74.23.158 — link — abuse?
C'mon Kevin, I'm not attacking you personally, just the notion that ML should be fired for not winning a Championship!
He's only been a HC for 7 seasons, and has a 63% winning %! Whereas, Mack Brown has a 64% career winning %, and has only won 1 conference title in his ENTIRE career, starting in 1983!
He gets a pass, b/c that same year, he just happened to win a MNC, too!
Leach is a good coach, and sometimes good coaches take a while to win a Championship!
You want to know what I expect out of ML? I'll tell ya!
1) Win games! Would I like for us to win a Championship? Sure, i would! But, face it, Tech isn't a football factory that the most talented kids dream about going to (i.e OU, NU, UT, and A&M)! I believe the talent level is getting better under Leach, and staff! So, more wins should be coming!
2) Don't embarass the school! By this, I mean he needs to be held to a high standard, and hold his players to a high standard, and not run a team of outlaws! Do some of his players get in trouble? Sure they do! But, he doesn't recruit any Pac-Mans (or at least he hasn't had them on the team)!
3) Kind of goes with #2! WIN THE RIGHT WAY! I don't want to have A&M's history of winning if it comes with having someone like Jackie Sherril involved with my program!
4) Graduate players! This part really gets lost in translation these days because of all the money college football brings in! BUT, this should actually be #1 on EVERY fans list! That is why they are called STUDENT-ATHLETES!
Also, Kevin, about the defense! Sure, it is ML's responsibility, since he is the HC! But, he delegates the control of the defense to the DC (Setencich)! Red Raider fans, by a large majority, don't like Setencich, and just wish he would retire!
See, Kevin, part of the reason I like Leach so much is a big part of his downfall, too! HE'S TOO LOYAL! Setencich gave Leach his 1st job in college coaching, I believe! I'm not sure if Leach is rewarding him for it, or if ML actually thinks he does a good job! I think he keeps him around b/c of their history!
At the same time, Tech hasn't exactly been stocked with GREAT defensive talent! We had a lot of attrition early on in Leach's career here, but it slowly is getting better!
Am I/we (as Tech fans) happy with our 2-12 record against OU/UT? I don't like to lose to anybody, but REALLY how many other teams have an acceptable winning % against those two teams? Does that make it O.K? I wouldn't fire a coach over a record like that! Those 2 teams have Top 5-10 recruiting class every year (according to rivals)! There's probably a reason UT/OU win most of the time (kind of like USC, LSU, Florida, etc. they get the best talent)
Personally, I feel like I have a pretty decent feel of how Tech fans feel about Leach, and I doubt they would disagree much with me! Does that mean we are satisfied? No, but we do see progress being made, and not a backward trend! People that don't have info. regarding the team (you, and some of the other "experts"), and what's going on within the program, probably can't see it! They just see thae black and white of having 4-5 losses each year! Believe me, there IS improvement going on, even though the record may not indicate it!
I'm a member of the Tech Rivals website (RedRaiderSports, and that's how I found out about your article)!
But, in order for us to compete for the Big12 year-in, and year-out, we HAVE to get better recruiting classes! And, yes, the last 2 years have gotten better( both on offense, and defense)! Is it Top 10 material? No! But, it is better than 5, or 6 years ago!
See, this is the chicken, and the egg thing! In order to win, you need the best talent! But, to get the best talent, you need to win (or at least have that history of winning i.e Notre Dame, Penn State, etc.)!
Right now, Tech doesn't have that, and that's not Leach's fault! It's the fault of the coaches that were here before him! Leach is just trying to correct it, THE RIGHT WAY!
Lonny Rowden said:
posted on July 10, 2007 9:55 PM — 153.25.87.34 — link — abuse?
I read the article and it's crazy. I'm a Tech fan, too. We all know Leach has been around 7 years and I think he won 7 games in each of those first 2 seasons when he lost bowl games.
1. Tech has the 3rd best record in the Big 12 over the last 5 years.
2. At no point in the last 5 years has Tech won fewer than 8 games and they won 9 games twice.
3. Tech has won their bowl game in 4 of the last 5 years with the lone loss being 13-10 to Alabama in the Cotton Bowl.
4. California was #4 when Texas stomped them in the Holiday Bowl and Texas was #3 when Tech beat them in 2002.
5. Tech has the 20th best record of all BCS conference teams over the last 5 years in arguably one of the 3 best conferences. At the same time, their recruiting has been about 40th best of the BCS schools.
6. Yes, we want to beat Texas and Oklahoma, but we also know they recruit a lot better.
7. While Tech has the 3rd best record in the Big 12 over the last 5 years (Having also played Texas and Oklahoma EVERY year and being in the better division EVERY year), they've only had the 9th best recruiting in the Big 12 during that time.
8. Tech has beaten A&M 9 of the last 12 years and never had as much talent.
9. They've also beaten Nebraska the last 2 times they've played with the 70-10 beatdown and Big Red's first homecoming loss in over 30 years.
10. Tech's biggest problem with getting better recruits, better bowls, and higher rankings is losing to teams they shouldn't lose to.
11. Tech has shown they can compete with UT and the 2 years that Vince Young was starting were the exception.
12. Tech has gone from not competing with OU to giving them a run for their money.
13. Tech was probably one converted QB sneak (or a few better calls) away from beating Texas last year and going back to the Holiday Bowl.
14. Tech is getting better recruits and will shock a few people this year.
posted on July 10, 2007 9:59 PM — link — abuse?
kmknez - For what it's worth, those of us here in Dallas get a lot of opportunities to discuss Leach, so while I may not have my guns up, I'm not exactly a n00b
I'm not damning Leach - he's a good coach. Probably would have already won a conference title in C-USA, WAC, or MWC. I'm simply asking if he is the coach to get them to a Big XII title.
So... Leach needs more time, ok. How much more time? Lee said 2 years (above). Is Leach on a two year probation with you, kmknez?
kmknez said:
posted on July 10, 2007 10:16 PM — 12.74.23.158 — link — abuse?
Kevin,
Actually, he probably would have won a con. title if he was in the North, just not those other conferences, but, I guess that's another topic!
As far as your question is concerned, the only way I can answer that is this: NO! I believe as long as Leach does the 4 things I mentioned above, that he is the coach for Tech! I think it is unfair to DEMAND he win a title in a given amount of time! Does anybody realize how difficult it is to do that? Everything has to go right for the entire year! 1 injury, 1 bounce of the ball the wrong way, etc. can derail a good teams chances of winning the title!
Yes, I like Leach, and would like for Tech football to win more, and believe that they will, eventually!
But, if the powers that be, think they should make another move, then I would support the next coach as well (rumors suggest it could be Sonny Dykes?)!
Don V said:
posted on July 11, 2007 12:27 AM — 209.155.110.2 — link — abuse?
I'm prepared to get blasted for this statement, but...
Is the goal for all 119 Division I-A coaches to contend for their division or does it depend on the school?
Should Duke expect to be contending for and occasionally winning ACC Coastal titles? I draw an extreme example to make a point. I'm not saying Texas Tech should be compared to Duke, but what is the the goal of a Texas Tech fan? Do you take the chance to give up what you have - bowl games, fun games to watch, full stadium - for the possibility of more but also less?
Kevin's comparison to Zook was off-base - Florida fans had tasted a championship and regular SEC championship, so just making bowls wasn't going to cut it.
Kevin's points are valid, I'm not disputing that - I'm changing the question.
gatorhippy said:
posted on July 11, 2007 9:03 AM — 209.16.115.5 — link — abuse?
K-Hue (#38):
The time factor is exactly what I was alluding to with the Bowden comparison...
Before FSU joined the ACC what was the main goal of the FSU program (or any independent for that matter)?
If you ain't playing in a conference; there is only one goal: National Championship...
Was it a good decision for FSU to wait it out over Bobby for nearly twenty years before he finally delivered what had been the entire point of his tenure up until joining the ACC?
In retrospect: YES!!
That's where the comparison came from...
But using your reasoning Bobby should have been fired within 7 to 10 years of his tenure at FSU...
Since he came close but wasn't able to get FSU over the "hump" in that time frame...
Again FSU waited nearly twenty years for Bobby to deliver, but yet you expect TT to can his ass after 8 seasons...
To quopte you: "C'mon dude."
Leach has and is doing alot of the same things that enabled Bobby to stay around FSU for so long prior to 1988...
He is running a tight ship with minimal legal troubles, graduating his players and has made TT a respectable program and a annual contender for divisional and conference titles...
As we have begun to see; apparently Red Raider fans feel the same way...
Lee said:
posted on July 11, 2007 9:15 AM — 72.26.146.189 — link — abuse?
(from Don V) "but what is the the goal of a Texas Tech fan? Do you take the chance to give up what you have - bowl games, fun games to watch, full stadium - for the possibility of more but also less?"
There it is all in a nutshell. And I don't know what's right or wrong. Leach has done well, many would say. It HAS been fun. So it's a question the athletic staff, hopefully with Tech alum input (and what the heck, we can ask the students, too) needs to make--do we keep Leach? And after the Harrell years, if Tech is doing more of the same, seems the time to ask it since we now have what we've ALWAYS wanted here: "What if we have a blue chip AND returning qb running the AirRaid? Nobody could stop us!"
Well, if teams do, there's always hope and time to rely on if Leach stays. But we're going to get answered the biggest question since Leach arrived in 2007 and 2008.
Now we'll see if this offense can put away the best, and consistently, too. (and I know we have some other position concerns in 2007, so I wouldn't start making a decision until after 2008)RedRaiderRich said:
posted on July 11, 2007 3:20 PM — 69.30.141.119 — link — abuse?
This topic has caught fire since I last checked it. As a Red Raider fan (obviously) I do like the job that Leach is doing, as do most fans. The athletic department also likes what Leach has done for it (selling out Jones Stadium will do that); so much so that the stadium is going to undergo even more renovations.
Most fans feel that the only problem with the program is its defense and feel a change should be made; however, Leach is stubborn and loyal and will never fire Setencich.
We also know that we are playing in a tough conference. Facing powerhouses OU and UT every year makes it hard for any team to succeed. However, we are closing the gap with those teams and once we can beat them, we should be able to win a conference title and thus go to a BCS game.
Texas Tech will almost always finish third in recruiting amongst the Texas schools but Leach has shown what an effective coach he is by being competitive against them (including owning aTm) with lesser talent.
We Red Raider fans are beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel and I believe are patient enough to give Leach the time he needs. Now should Tech ever have a top-ranked defense and attain the same results, then I think Leach would be on the hot seat.
Wreck 'em, Tech!College Pigskin Fan said:
posted on July 11, 2007 5:07 PM — 63.19.2.199 — link — abuse?
If Texas Tech went out and hired a NCAA or NFL def backs coach or def line coach that has produced good numbers, then Texas Tech would be a threat to Texas and Oklahoma. Until that happens, then at best, they'll be third place team in the Big 12 South.
Lee said:
posted on July 11, 2007 11:33 PM — 72.26.146.189 — link — abuse?
Re: College Pigskin Fan: "If Texas Tech went out and hired a NCAA or NFL def backs coach or def line coach that has produced good numbers, then Texas Tech would be a threat to Texas and Oklahoma. Until that happens, then at best, they'll be third place team in the Big 12 South."
Except that just year before last (2005), Tech was second in both the South & the entire BigXII. Was EVERYONE in a coma that year?????????????????? It is just one season removed! I swear, I think some at Tech don't know it since so many are focused on that end-of-season loss to Oklahoma State and the loss of a BCS game (which you would think would remind the Tech faithful of just how well the team did since if we were on the cusp of a BCS game we couldn't have had a lemon of a season. It's like some global memory-erasing has occurred that you'd see in some B grade science fiction movie. Weird. And frustrating.)
But a change at DC would still probably be a good thing. Tech has dumped all the elites in conference. Just not as often as we'd like, and most finger pointing is at the D. And the offense can't always click for the D to feed off of. Tech needs an "always-good" D.
Banditcdr said:
posted on July 12, 2007 6:05 AM — 214.13.149.10 — link — abuse?
As a long time Texas Tech fan (and alumni), I remember the days of Jerry Moore (ugh!) and only sniffing a .500 record. Having Mike Leach over the past seven years, with the offense and bowl wins, has been a great thing and has made Texas Tech recognizable outside of West Texas!
I won't "look a gift horse in the mouth"; Leach has brought Tech to a point where we consistently compete with the top tier programs not only in the league but around the country. Now it's time to take that next step to where we not only compete for Conf. Championships but BCS berths as well. I think ML's success buys him a few (two, maybe three) more seasons to get to the next level, but at that point you have to start wondering if Tech will ever make that jump with the current coaching/recruiting staff. The key is recruiting; going to school in the middle of nowhere can be a hard sell but if Boise State can recruit top-tier talent, there's no reason we can't. Convincing a few top level defensive guys that it's better to start at Tech then ride the bench at tu, aTm or ou would get us going in the right direction.
I definitely agree that it's time to shake up the Defensive coaching staff; if the DC can't get it done this year, Setencich needs to go and bring in an asst. from an established defensive powerhouse. I really think we are only a handful of players away from getting to that next level.
Having said all that, after spending a year in the desert of Iraq, I can't wait to take in a game in Lubbock and see the Raiders pull off an upset of tu in Austin!
Get Your Guns Up!
Tomcat said:
posted on July 13, 2007 12:44 PM — 70.242.186.151 — link — abuse?
Not being a TTech fan, I still enjoy seeing these great come from behind victories in the final seconds.Like the 05 Nebraska game in Lincoln its 30 to 27- 4th down with 19 seconds on the clock. Touchdown Raiders win. Nebraskas first homecoming loss in 37 years the Big Red fans call for Calihans Head.
2006 College Station Texas
www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3756Kw2jvo
After beating Nebraska at home 05 and A&M at home 06 I dont beleive the Tech faithful really want a coaching change
Hookem-HornsRedRaider1905 said:
posted on July 17, 2007 6:40 PM — 66.28.226.77 — link — abuse?
I think Mike Leach has done an outstanding job at turning Tech into an exciting team to watch and a consistent 8-9 game winner. He has produced some of the most exciting football you could ever hope for with his explosive offensive, aggressive fourth down calls, and crazy analogies when talking to reporters. I would say it would be very sad to see him go.
Now having said that I don't think it is wrong for Tech fans to expect to compete and win a Big XII South title or Big XII title. I think it is good fans want to take the next step and move on to a BCS game (potentially the NCG). I think the fans should expect recruiting to get better with the success of the program and the many renovations that have been made to not only the athletic facilities but to the school. TTU over the past ten to twenty years has made many strides as a school and they should expect more from everyone associated with it, on every level. For anyone to suggest that they should not expect to continue to move in this direction and should in fact accept some level of meritocracy is just sorry. I am proud of the strides they have made and fully think that they should continue to expect more on every level.
...Getting back to the specific discussion at hand I think putting him on a pseudo-probation the next couple years is a good idea. With Harrell returning two more years, a soft schedule this year, and a veteran squad coming back in 2008, I'd say it is now or never.
BTAustin said:
posted on July 22, 2007 11:30 PM — 70.113.109.201 — link — abuse?
Reality Check. What are you people smoking? This is the best they've ever done. This is as you can do in Lubbock in the Big 12. Leach will leave when a Bigtime program takes a chance on him. To fire him would be the biggest mistake anybody ever made.
Mike Jones said:
posted on July 24, 2007 5:44 PM — 209.184.178.1 — link — abuse?
Kevin,
First let me compliment you on running a very quality website as I've enjoyed fanblogs for sometime now. Many of the stories aren't on the espn's or yahoo's of the world, so bravo for finding some good commentary.
Now, I am a diehard Red Raider & just want to know why you have such a problem w/ Texas Tech. After reading the website for so long, it is quite obvious that you have a distaste for Tech. Why? I'm just curious.
As for firing Leach, don't people in Lubbock have to dislike him for that to happen? Try to find 10 people in Lubbock that do not like what Leach has done to the program. You make some strong cases about his performance, but remember, it's Tech not Notre Dame. The expectations are on different levels. That's probably one of the problems, but I believe once the team has a 10-win season, the program will build some momentum & hopefully propel Tech into a tier-1 program that, as a fan, hope that it gets to soon.
Also as a fan, I'm more concerned with Leach going to the NFL than Tech firing him.
posted on July 24, 2007 8:21 PM — link — abuse?
Mike - Thanks. I don't have anything against Tech, but I have said that I don't care for Leach's style more than once, so I can understand how some people could draw that conclusion.
At heart, I'm a college football fan.
Being in Texas, I see Tech fans everyday and -- you're right -- most would think I'm drunk for even suggesting Leach should be on the hot seat.
But as a college football fan, I also see a great school, with a loyal alumni, in a BCS conference, that keeps trying the same thing year in and year out, yet expects different results. What has been Tech's problem in the last five years? Defense. What has Leach done to address it? Nothing. At almost any other school, the coach would get run out. He has admitted the problem and continues to do nothing. Something has to change there, either Leach's ways or Leach himself.
Texas Tech has the potential to win the Big XII and play in a BCS game... but it's not going to happen until something changes. And that won't happen until the alumni demands it.
Mike Jones said:
posted on July 25, 2007 2:42 PM — 209.184.178.1 — link — abuse?
The biggest problem with the type of offense Tech runs is it usually puts the defense on the field for 35-40 minutes a game. There are not many defenses in all D-1 that can shut down teams being on the field that long each game. So what's the solution? I wish the question was that easy to answer.
Leach has the mentality of the Nelly-led Mavericks of the NBA. Just try to outscore us, we don't think most teams can. It works against many opponents but it isn't a championship winning style. It's got to be a slow progression to get to that caliber, not every program is Boise State.
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TrojanHorse said:
posted on July 9, 2007 10:31 AM — 65.90.227.73 — link — abuse?I was never a fan of coaches who didn't play the game at least at some level in college... that goes for CW as well although I can understand his pedigree with the pats as an OC.. but I've never understood this ML hire