October 17, 2005
Pac10 refs missed call on USC winning play
Notre Dame fans saw it right away. Reggie Bush admitted it. Matt Leinart felt it. Pete Carrol even mentioned it in the post-game. Yet the Pac 10 officials who called the play on the field never saw it:
"I used all 200 pounds of my body to push Matt in," said Bush.
"The Push"
Had the penalty been called against USC, the play would have been blown dead, the touchdown taken off the board, and the time would have expired.
After pushing into his offensive line unsuccessfully, he twisted his body to his right and was pushed into the end zone by running back Reggie Bush. With two hands, Bush shoved Leinart's chest to allow him to stumble backward over the goal line through a gap between the center and the left guard.Bush admitted to pushing Leinart into the end zone after the game, even though it is a violation.
According to Section 2, Article 2b of the N.C.A.A. rulebook, "The runner shall not grasp a teammate; and no other player of his team shall grasp, push, lift or charge into him to assist him in forward progress."
One rulebook's illegal push is another man's heady play. The rule is often ignored, much like a three-second violation in basketball or a second baseman in baseball needing to touch the bag while turning a double play.
A call here, a play there, it's the story of college football. Unfortunately, one of the greatest games ever played is always going to have that little asterisk, that little what if, that reason for fans to wonder: USC...pushed to destiny?
UPDATE:
Here's another look at the push from the Wizard of Odds:
Now this shot couldn't look more sinister if Bush had horns, a forked tail and a pitchfork. And, from this perspective, you can make out that there is at least one ND defender trying to keep ol' #11 out of the end zone.
Also, for a bird's eye view of the scene at game, check out The Irish Trojan's videos.
Comments:
posted on October 17, 2005 10:23 AM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue said:
Actually, from the photo it looks like those ballroom dancing classes are paying off.
Fred said:
posted on October 17, 2005 11:51 AM — 165.176.19.2 — link — abuse?
personally the previous play was where the real problem occurred. The forward progress of Leinhart was stopped and the whistle should have blown before the ball was knocked out of bounds, when are the Irish going to stop this ridiculous concept of using refs from the same conference as your opponent!
Hippster in KC said:
posted on October 17, 2005 11:59 AM — 12.4.181.2 — link — abuse?
PACMan,
I don't think many ND fans are going to begrudge the win because of that non-call. I think USC deserved to win for even running that play.
ND put up a valiant effort, but we saw why you bastards have won 28 straight. That pass on 4th and 9 easily could have been broken up, but Leinart and the receiver made the play. And Reggie Bush is unbeleivable even if he does showboat a bit much.
We had our chance when we drove down the field but Quinn missed our fullback on 3rd and 8 and we missed the field goal. I think we win if get a touchdown there.
That was a heartbreaker, but we're pretty happy knowing that it took our coach all of 6 games to get the program to the verge of beating a #1 team. As I commented before, at least the days of USC beating us by 31 without trying are over. I don't think too many people who watched that game came away thinking that USC has vastly superior talent, ND doesn't have any speed, ND needs to join the Big Ten, etc.
ND needs some players on defense and then they'll be pretty tough. If we have Reggie Bush (and we almost did) we win that game. But USC is a better team and was a little better on Saturday. I still hate USC, and I'm tired of winning them Heisman trophies every year. But even though I hate USC, I'd rather they win the title than Texas.
Curt Kleckler said:
posted on October 17, 2005 12:47 PM — 216.153.251.111 — link — abuse?
Why was the ball placed inside the one yard line (and then moved back to the one)? The runner reached the one yard line, but the ball shot backwards and out of bounds landing near the five or so. Shouldn't have it been placed where it went out of bounds....I would have guessed near the 3 or 4 yard line....
boifromtroy said:
posted on October 17, 2005 1:40 PM — 66.134.232.250 — link — abuse?
From that picture, it looks like Matt was in without "the push"...
And as for the Refs...they were just all-around bad...not just bad in USC's favor.
On the previous play, I have to wonder if Matt didn't intentionally "fumble" that ball knowing the situation with the clock...
Scrub said:
posted on October 17, 2005 1:45 PM — 165.251.12.36 — link — abuse?
Curt, if you look at the play where the ball was popped out, the ref was standing right there. I think they said the reason why the clock wasn't stopped immediately was because the refs were preoccupied with where to spot the ball, so the placement of where the ball went out of bounds is a non-issue.
Fred, forward progress is only called when the defense stops the movement of the ball carrier while he is still on his feet and trying to move forward. Leinart dived toward the goal line and the ball flew out immediately after he was from the side while in the air.
Fan of the Game said:
posted on October 17, 2005 2:28 PM — 12.43.234.14 — link — abuse?
This is why these blogs are so great. USC comes away knowing they were in a war and lucky to make it through. Notre Dame comes away knowing they were in a war and that they can play with the No.1 team in the country. However, the USC fans come out exhausted from their emotional rollercoaster ride that almost saw their mighty trojans fall to defeat for the first time in more than 2 years. The Irish fans want a rematch! I like what Weis has done in South Bend and it looks as if the Irish are on their way to becoming a National Power. I think the only ones complainig about the result of the game are the ND fans. But that's what fans do. No one wants to see their team go down in the closing seconds of a game. It was a great game and a game for the ages. Since Saturday, I have watched the game 3 times. You can argue the call or "non" call made at the end of the game, but what difference does it make. There were plenty of penalties called and not called throughout the game for both sides- That's Football! Allthough, I would have like to see the Irish prevail, I think the refs did the right thing. They spotted the ball were they thought right and let the two teams line up and decide amongst themselves who was going to win. This time USC came out on top, next time- who knows? Notre Dame is definatley one of the Top 5 teams in the country and should be proud of their effort Saturday. Disgruntle Irish fans need to let it go. I did and it wasn't easy. Good Luck to USC and Go Irish!!
deo in sin city said:
posted on October 17, 2005 3:14 PM — 68.108.117.180 — link — abuse?
As an SC fan and alumnus, I was happy they won, almost giving me a heart attack inside the GVR hotel, where I was watching it from. I was also disappointed in the gameplay throughout the whole game. They have two of the best running backs in college football and they only ran 1 of them for more than 15+ plays. If they would have ran in the red zone in the second quarter, instead of throwing it for a touchdown, we would at least have a chance for a field goal, or maybe a touchdown for lendale or bush again, instead we get intercepted in the end zone for a touchback.
As a football fan, not just college but pro too, people with any kind of football knowledge, will tell you, establish the run and complement it with the pass. You have to be good in the ground game and in the air, or else your offense is just 1 dimensional and the defense will figure you out faster than a five piece jigsaw puzzle, in the case of Matt Leinart seeming mediocre, instead of the heisman winning qurterback of last year.
I know, I know, I'm just a joe schmoe, and my comments don't mean squat to the football coaches. But as a football fanatic listening to the experts like analyst and other football coaches, that is what I have learned. Establish the run and complement it with the pass.....
The only thing that kept us in the game was Bush's legs. Now imagine if Lendale got the same amount of touches as Reggie does, like the previous three games. The corners and safeties would get drawn in some more to the line of scrimmage, and Matt would have better time passing the ball, instead of throwing it to double coverage e.g. 4th and 9 for the game winning drive, only one guy was covering d. jarrett, the safeties were too commited to reggie bush coming out of the backfield in case of a surprise run.
Run the ball first and help it out with the pass, I'm guess I'm old school like that. But what do I know I'm just a fan. That was a great game though, it kept the alcohol in my system in checked with all the adrenaline being pumped in my system.
FIGHT ON MEN of TROY
rob said:
posted on October 17, 2005 3:42 PM — 12.154.234.156 — link — abuse?
i've no vested interest in the game one way or the other but i do need a rule clarification here. can you really fumble out of bounds within 2 minutes, when your team has no timeouts, and stop the clock? that's the schoolyard type stuff we were not allowed to do in intramural college flag football. i know leinart did not do it intentially, but hasn't a rule been created to keep teams from purposely fumbling a ball out of bounds to stop the clock? if not, i can't believe more teams don't do that when they are not able to get all the way to the sideline.
geeked up said:
posted on October 17, 2005 4:46 PM — 216.237.57.123 — link — abuse?
Outstanding game. Though ND played tough, I don't know if you can rank a 2-loss team in the top 5 or even 10.
I had a question I was hoping someone might shed some light on. After the second to last play of the game - when Leinert fumbles out of bounds and the clock is ticking, an SC coach (I'm pretty sure its the TE coach Brennan Carrol - Pete's son) is clearly signalling a timeout right in front of a ref. But SC doesn't have any time outs left. Is that an infraction similar to basketball (a la Chris Webber's in the NCAA finals)?
FanSinceB4McKay said:
posted on October 17, 2005 5:09 PM — 139.55.21.113 — link — abuse?
I thought the comments of ND Coach Weiss in his 10/17 press conference regarding the famous Bush Push are instructive.
Q. No. 2, very quickly, on the final Southern Cal touchdown when Bush pushed, had there been review...COACH WEIS: That's a good one, Bush pushed, huh?
Q. Could be. Had it been reviewable, was there a remedy available and would it have been reviewable?
COACH WEIS: No. First of all, that would have had to have been a penalty called when that happened. They are not going to call a penalty after the fact so that would not have been reviewable. They would have had to call that when it took place.
Being perfectly honest with you, I would hope that my running back, with the game on the line, would take that risk too. Because what's the worst thing that happens, there's a penalty and you get to kick the field goal? I would hope that my running back would have enough sense that Reggie had to realize the quarterback was stopped - and he was. He was stopped. The game is going to be over and he ends up knocking them in the end zone. So, is it illegal, yes, but is it a heads up play, yes.
irish fan said:
posted on October 17, 2005 5:14 PM — 64.108.202.16 — link — abuse?
A few thoughts on what was the most exciting game I've seen in ND stadium in 20 years, and the controversial calls at the end of the game.
1. Every ND fan, including me, thought the refs blew the third down call at the end of the game. It wasn't until about 30 minutes after the game and many phone calls to friends who saw the game on TV that people began to realize the call was right. I didn't accept it myself until I got home and reviewed the play on tivo.
2. As for the Bushpush, that's football. Leinart crossed the plane, touchdown USC, game over.
3. Reggie Bush is fast
4. I love ND
5. USC proved they were champions, finding a way to win
6. No more green jerseys
7. Reggie Bush is really fastScrub said:
posted on October 17, 2005 6:28 PM — 69.248.103.159 — link — abuse?
Geeked up, the answer to your question is no, there is no timeout penalty like in college basketball. If you are out of timeouts, and you try to call timeout, the refs simply ignore you. I think the assistant coach was trying to get the refs to call an official timeout to review the play, because the USC sideline heard the whistle but the clock kept ticking.
I'm not an expert in college basketball, but if you are out of timeouts and you call timeout, the refs will actually stop the clock and give you the timeout, but you will be penalized and the other team gets free throws. Michigan was trailing by a few points when Chris Weber called timeout, which gave the other team some free throws to make the lead unsurmountable. There is nothing like that in football.
On a side note, a cheap way to get a free timeout is to fake a player injury, forcing an official timeout. Florida St did that in a national championship game, and ironically did it again this weekend against Virginia.
SCnofairwthrfan said:
posted on October 17, 2005 7:25 PM — 204.44.186.129 — link — abuse?
Got to say the IRISH folks in this blog have more class than some I have met. My Men of Troy had some luck, no doubt! the Irish have proved to many, including me, that under Weiss the Irish are back, big. Just hope that we use our skill much more and require less of that luck. I fear next year could be a turn of events with the SC-ND rivalry...
* the 'push' thing, Weiss nailed it - yea, it's iilegal by the books, but he would hope his back would do the same thing. Nobody calls that anymore, it's like a 3-step slam dunk, NOBODY calls them. FIGHT ON!Fan from Leahy "1941" said:
posted on October 18, 2005 7:53 AM — 70.33.99.215 — link — abuse?
Cannot believe my hero Charley blew this tactic---Bet his mentors B&B were on the phone to CW giving him hell---"Weis why didn't you use your 3 timeouts with a minute 23 left so you would get the ball back with about a 60 seconds left and a chance for your team to score if necessary".--- No one has dared to ask CW about this egregious error for fear of losing access to him---I guess no matter how perfect we want our IDOLS to be they are mortal and do make mistakes---Charley I forgive you this time but don't let it happen again---
posted on October 18, 2005 8:53 AM — link — abuse?
THat's a really good point. I hadn't considered Weis' time-out strategy. I think if it had been me, I would have let the clock run, too. One more shoestring tackle on the drive would have spent the clock. I need to rewatch it & time it out.
Jon said:
posted on October 18, 2005 11:07 AM — 66.71.38.50 — link — abuse?
While I don't agree with what Bush did, I don't think he should have been penalized for it. From the picture it looks as if he is already falling into the end-zone. At least he can admit to it. I really respect Notre Dame and Charlie Weis for taking the loss like they did.
Fan of the Game said:
posted on October 18, 2005 1:42 PM — 12.43.234.14 — link — abuse?
I have never been a huge fan of Notre Dame football. As a fan of the game I do however respect the legacy that is Notre Dame football. I really thought that ND was desperate to find the coaching answer when they hired Weis. Apparently, the Irish did find the answer. Weis has been extremely impressive in his first year as Head Coach. The players are buying into his system and it appears that he is the right man for the job. In fact, it is much like when the Trojans brought in Pete Carol and shortly thereafter USC was back to playing winning football. For the record, I am not a huge fan of USC or Notre Dame. I do respect the traditions and successes that both universities have had and I am thoroughly convinced that they have 2 of the best programs in the country. I look forward to watching more of the Trojeans and Fighting Irish in the future.
Mathmn said:
posted on October 19, 2005 2:04 PM — 68.104.130.231 — link — abuse?
Despite CW's brilliant game plan, the Irish lost this game as a result of two plays:
USC punches the ball out of Fassano's hands when he would have reached at least the 15 yard line.
Quinn misses a wide open Schwapp for a first down.
If these plays were executed perfectly, the Irish probably win by 10.
Regan said:
posted on October 19, 2005 7:59 PM — 64.12.116.139 — link — abuse?
If it walks like a Duck and quacks like a Duck, call it what it is: A Duck.
The Pac-10 referees reached into Notre Dame's pocket and gave the Trojans the win.
The established rules of the game were not followed and the Trojans should have lost.
Human Error is responsible IMHO, not a 'conspiracy', so I won't take anything away from the Trojans' victory. ND fans have acted with nothing but class compared to what I would be saying had it been one of my teams that lost in this manner, and Trojan fans have (to my surprise) been gracious in victory for the most part.
I will point out that the fact that the bad call is being ignored in the general media (save for Weis' press conference spun in a way to portray the Irish as 'sore losers'). What does this mean? I will digress - since everyone else is being classy I will try not to be the 'sore loser'.
Sage said:
posted on October 20, 2005 5:57 AM — 24.30.97.140 — link — abuse?
If you watch the replay, Bush's push doesn't get Leinart into the end zone, because Leinart was up against a wall of ND linemen when the push happened. Leinart got into the end zone with his spin move, when he turned onto his back and fell past the ND guys across the goal line.
At that point gravity was pulling him across the goal line, and Bush was just an observer. I think it would have been lame for the refs to call a penalty. If USC has the balls to go-for-broke on that play, they should get to live or die by it. I've never seen such a ballsy call by a coach and a QB before.
james beaufore said:
posted on October 20, 2005 12:30 PM — 64.171.34.16 — link — abuse?
About the officiating of this game. If you look at the tape of this game go back to 3 and 20. USC makes the completion short of the first down. Why dosen't the ref spot the ball and wind the clock??? USC didn't have a timeout and if they did they didn't call one!!!
WarEagle71 said:
posted on October 20, 2005 6:26 PM — 68.156.185.78 — link — abuse?
If it is true that this "aiding the runner" penalty is often ignored by the officials, it should be removed as a penalty and let evryone do it. Imagine the consequences if it happens again to another team and the penalty is called.
So either enforce it or get rid of it and allow anyone running the ball to be pushed for extra yardage.Regan said:
posted on October 20, 2005 8:01 PM — 205.188.116.199 — link — abuse?
Sage: (#26)
I understand where you are coming from, but I have seen way too many calls for illegal blocks, holding, etc. that have had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of the play. Even if the Bush-Push had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the play, it was illegal.
This is a game of rules. To suspend the application of a rule on the basis of sentimentality is not valid (for any team or any reason).
If we side with sentimentality, what is the basis for the calls? Is Pass-Interference or Roughing-the-Passer fair game because "we wouldn't want to ruin such a great game by following the rules"?
I said earlier that what lost the Irish the game was human error on behalf of the referees. I will stand by that, and ignore any "sentimentality" statements on behalf of the officials, since such a statement would be the same thing as referee "bias" in favor of the Trojans. Since I'm not going to resort to using that childish argument, I will stick to the "human error".
Feel free in promoting the "Trojan Bias (Sentimentality)" theory.
Congratulations to Southern California for their 6-0* start.
rmx said:
posted on October 27, 2005 1:51 AM — 66.215.245.76 — link — abuse?
A few points about he whole game:
1) ND got it's large share of calls throughout the entire game, one phantom personal foul and one non catch, both would have forced ND to punt, instead both resulted in ND TD's.
2) Sports Illustrated has a pic of the leinart fumble in it's opening pictures, the ball is flying out backwards at about the goal line, and the refs arms are raising and he is blowing his whistle indicating the play dead. the ball looks to already be out of bounds at the one, but if it's not, it certainly went no farther then the 2, these claims that the ball should have been anywhere between the 7 and 4 are rediculous.
3) On that same play Leinarts forward progress was not stopped enough to call the play dead, as soon as he leaves his feet the ball comes popping out.
4) If Leinart didn't fumble the ball, he landed in the endzone, it would have been a TD, so the fumble isn't really that lucky, just moot.
5) The "Bush Push" was not as big a push as people are making it out to be. The entire play only takes up around 40 frames on video, which is about 1 and a half seconds, the push itself is a small fraction of that. when a penalty is called for aiding the runner, it's usually keeping the runner from falling, or pushing for a sustained time frame. there was nothing sustained about bush's push, it was more accuratley a 2 handed jab. And as someone pointed out before, the spin not the push got him into the endzone.
to notre dame whiners said:
posted on November 13, 2005 4:04 PM — 216.160.106.197 — link — abuse?
Quit acting like you guys were robbed because you weren't.
If you want to change a couple of referee calls then you must fix ALL the incorrect calls.
Like Notre Dame committing an obvious block in the back on the Punt Return for a TD.
Like Notre Dame continuing a drive and ball caught out of bounds on 3rd down.
Like Notre Dame scoring a TD (Zamardzija) when the Left Guard is holding.
Like Notre Dame scoring another TD (Thomas) with the Right Guard Bear Hugging the Dlineman opening up a hole.
Like a Notre Dame Dlineman committing a blatant hands to the face (pushing the helmet up) on Leinart's 2nd Interception.
Like Notre Dame continuing a drive on 4th and 20 after the refs call a BS personal foul on USC.
Fix them all and the game doesn't required last minute heroics.
Also, USC was penalized 9 times throughout the game. Notre Dame only 6 times despite ND holding all game long. Pac 10 refs don't penalize ND as much cause they don't want to appear biased. They know how much ND fans whine and cry. You guys have been doing it for years regarding Pac 10 refs. In the end, USC gets screwed from it more often.
Go ahead. Bring in neutral Big 12 refs for both sites (USC and ND) and watch ND get penalized more often. The Pac 10 refs don't do USC any favors. And the ND Athletic Director knows it and that's why it is the way it is currently.
If Notre Dame wasn't holding the whole game this game isn't nearly as close.
skiball said:
posted on December 31, 2005 2:43 PM — 24.12.41.174 — link — abuse?
Even though it is the end of December, and the game has been over for quite some time, the bottom line is this. Yes, Bush pushed, however, ND's defence let them get to the point where Linert could have been pushed. Giving up big plays is a sure-fire way to lose. So, the way I see it, don't look at the push, don't look at the fumble, look at the fourth down completion, because without that ND takes a knee. Skill? Luck? Both teams have plenty of it. Tough luck, Irish, it's about time that "luck" isn't on your side. USC, have fun next year, when the Irish take it to you.
JORDAN said:
posted on March 27, 2006 7:47 PM — 68.191.212.230 — link — abuse?
to the guy that says notre dame whiners, hey why dont u just jump on the USC band wagon to, i mean come on, nobody liked USC untill they won the national championship in 2003, b4 that they werent shit. Well to bad they got it handed to them by texas b/c they cant hold a lead, and cant win with out cheating..the Bush Push, so untill u start saying all that stuff about the penalties that Notre Dame supposedly had think about that
Sean Mullen said:
posted on June 2, 2006 8:47 AM — 24.167.247.160 — link — abuse?
I was at the game myself and I was heartbroken. I have never seen worse officiating since the '72 gold medal basketball game. SC fans, you know you got it handed to you, not just on the last play but on the play before that too. Also, in the nation championship when Vince Young was down before he pitched it, quit crying! Like you guys didn't get the breaks when it came to bad calls this year. Everyone know that ND beat you guys this last year. Go Irish!
So Cal Clippers said:
posted on July 1, 2006 7:28 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
Sean "waa" Mullen.
Get
Over
ItPushing the Pile happens in virtually every college football game ever played, how many times have you see it been called?!
Goofball - "everyone knows that ND beat [waa, whaa]"... except that they LOST. Who's the one thats "crying" exactly?... Hmmm...
And anyway, USC didnt win the Title, so in the grand scheme of things... no harm, no foul.
Get. Over. It.Mooka said:
posted on July 4, 2006 6:09 AM — 138.163.0.42 — link — abuse?
Yea, what's new? This BS happens all the time. I thought that's why they came up with reviewing the play. I kinda feel for ND on this one though because they really deserved to have that game in the books. On the other hand the refs probably would have looked foolish to finally call something they rarely call. I say erase the rule. As long as there is forward momentum let the teams tough it out.
Tampa Hurricane said:
posted on July 5, 2006 1:31 PM — 24.96.199.254 — link — abuse?
Mooka, this was a play that couldn't have been reviewed because it would have been a penalty, and missed penalties can't be reviewed.
Please note that all comments are subject to the Fanblogs Comment Policy.
PACMan said:
posted on October 17, 2005 10:09 AM — 68.10.109.29 — link — abuse?I guess it is a headline, but really..C'mon. I'd like to think if the roles had been reversed, I wouldn't be bringing this up in an argument that my team got screwed.
I think most realize that this is never called, and that Brady Quinn actually had the same happen to him on a couple of 3rd and short runs throughout the game..Plus, take a look at the picture..Leinart was going in anyway, there was no Kelly Green shirts behind him..immaterial!
If not "by the book" legal, or even entirely necessary, it may have been Reggie's headiest play of the day on a day where he won that game.
Hats off to a fine ND team..
Fight On SC!