May 30, 2007
Does USC get a free pass on discipline?
In the words of the great Barry Switzer, "Just win, baby."
Over the years, many successful programs have gotten a black-eye for their off-the-field conduct, despite their on-the-field success. Miami, Florida State, Penn State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, LSU, Tennessee and others have hoisted trophies on Saturday, only to make the wrong kind of headlines by Sunday morning. It's a reputation that keeps on giving, often staining reputations for decades to come.
But not so for Southern Cal and Head Coach Pete Carroll.
Despite a long and distinguished list of arrests and transgressions in the few short years that Carroll has been on campus, the Teflon Trojans maintain a sterling reputation.
While Bruins Nations is nice enough (wink) to maintain a more exacting USC "rap sheet", I'm just going to hit the highlights of the Pete Carroll era.
Let's examine:
2001 - Pete Carroll hired by USC.
2003 - USC OT Winston Justice plead no contest to solicitation of a prostitute.
2004 - USC OT Winston Justice was arrested on suspicion of felony assault with a deadly weapon - plead no contest.
2004 - USC RB Hershel Dennis investigated for an alleged sexual assault. Suspended for "breaking team rules".
2005 - USC CB Eric Wright was arrested for investigation of sexual assault.
2005 - USC CB Eric Wright suspended three semesters after police found 136 Ecstasy pills in his apartment
2005 - USC TE Dominique Bird gets a broken jaw in a fight with WR Steve Smith
2005 - USC DE Frostee Rucker investigated for spousal battery
2005 - 10 USC players investigated for hazing QB Mark Sanchez
2005 - Several players investigated for damage to dorms following a fight among players
2005 - USC RB LenDale White simulates suicide by throwing a tackling dummy off a building in view of the team as a "prank" devised by White & Carroll
2005 - USC players accused of pushing Washington State Head Coach Bill Doba before halftime
2005 - USC LB Rey Maualuga arrested for misdemeanor battery after punching a man at an off-campus Halloween party
2005 - USC QB Matt Leinart is ruled ineligible briefly by the NCAA after an ESPN TV promotion
2006 - Football team investigated for recruiting violations in visits to Papadakis Taverna
2006 - USC QB Matt Leinart was cited by the Pac-10 for illegal workouts at USC
2006 - USC DE Frostee Rucker charged with two misdemeanor counts of spousal battery and two counts of vandalism from the 2005 beating of his girlfriend
2006 - USC RB Reggie Bush and his family investigated for improper gifts and benefits
2006 - USC QB Mark Sanchez was arrested for investigation of sexual assault
2006 - USC WR Dwayne Jarrett investigated on NCAA violation for failing to pay $5,352 in rent.
2006 - USC DBs Brandon & Ryan Ting quit the team under allegations of steroid use
2007 - A federal investigation revealed tapes regarding USC RB Reggie Bush and his family allegedly extorting $280,000 in cash, rent and gifts while he was playing football for USC.
2007 - USC compliance officials investigate illegal recruiting of RB Joe McKnight.
Which brings us to the latest arrest:
2007 - USC junior safety Josh Pinkard arrested May 18 on the suspicion of drunk driving.
And the latest rumors (UNCONFIRMED as of yet - mind you!) of another pending arrest and a loose confirmation at WeAreSC.com:
An arrest warrant has been issued for USC Linebacker Kulaka Maiava. Maiava, according to several witnesses, trespassed onto the campus of Baldwin High School in Wailuku Tuesday and began a heated discussion with a 17 year old female student. Maiava, according to witnesses then assaulted the student causing a blackened eye, broken nose and forcing her to be hospitalized over night with a concussion. Maiava then assaulted the student's boyfriend who tried to intervene. Both students are scheduled to graduate later this week."
Now, these are the "headliner" type actions and allegations - roughly 25 in the past six seasons. That works out to... what... four none-to-pretty headlines per season?
So, does Pete Carroll run a dirty program? If you ask Google, then the statistical analysis says yes. Don't believe me?
Google returns 38,600 results (today) for pete carroll arrested. Compare that to bobby bowden arrested --which returns 28,600 results today -- or against joe paterno arrested -- which returns 36,000 results.
What say you - does USC have a dirty program? Is USC getting a free pass? Just win, baby?
Comments:
TrojanHorse said:
posted on May 30, 2007 7:50 PM — 75.75.86.11 — link — abuse?
Looking for some serious smack talk aren't ya kev. you are no better than the Yahoo beat writers today..
Eric Wright, kicked out of SC.. case closed.. went to UNLV.. where is that thread
Byrd broken jaw by Smith.. where is the crime report??? none filed.. case closed
hazing of Sanchez.. geez kev.. that only happens at SC.. what a stupid post there
Lendale and the dummy off the parking garage.. wheres the crime?? another stupid post by you kev.. what kind of headline is that
Leinart ineligible after ESPN commercial.. like that one was a crime too.. sheesh.. i'll bet even you can't beleive that one.. wake up.. if thats all you can find for headlines
Papadakis tavern, they do it for 30 years and now its a problem.. yeah out of control there.. some a-hole longhorn writer decides to bring it up.. its an effin meal.. oh yeah other schools dont have team meals elsewhere.. sorry my bad
probably me here, but I don't know about the ML illegal workouts but I notice no link either
Sanchez assault dismmissed as it was a clear cut case of a broad making a false claim.. go look at the records and interviews.. nice work there kev
The Ting brother thing was real.. I'll give you that
Love the way you break up the Reggie Bush investigation into multiple stories to make your post look bigger and better for you
face book.. stupid but where is the crime
McKnight.. whoopdy effin dooo..
the latest two.. this is the first i've heard.. need to go find out more..
PS, I didn't know PC was ever arrested.. ditto on bobby B or Joe Pa
slummin today kev.. you must be bored
SEMINOLE_NATION said:
posted on May 30, 2007 7:53 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Wow!!! That's HEAVY ammo! I've always said don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. I realize no program is perfect ect ect ect but...
THAT'S INSANE!!!
The thing that stands out to me is all the ASSAULT and SEXUAL ASSAULT charges!
There are EIGHT instances of assault/sexual assault plus ONE unconfirmed instance (the latest).
I'm normally one to cast stones at programs but...
that's pretty DIRTY.
posted on May 30, 2007 8:09 PM — link — abuse?Kevin Donahue said:
@Seminole Nation - I slugged both Bobby & FSU through the mud within this, so I don't feel bad about the stones.
@C-Dogg - See above. ;)
@Trojanhorse - Not trying to smack, but I think it's a decent question... why is USC the Teflon Trojans?!
And for the "what's the big deal" comments, I see you conveniently skipped over a few. What do those omissions mean? Those are big deals? ;-)
As best I know, PC, BB, & JP have never been arrested, but that's not the point of the search. I'm looking for instances where they are mentioned along with an arrest within Google. I suspect you know that, too.
And for the "missing" links, hey, I'm glad to go back and add them. I just didn't want to look like I'm piling on. But... here goes!
posted on May 30, 2007 8:35 PM — link — abuse?
Updated: Added links to each item, by request.
USCLink said:
posted on May 30, 2007 8:53 PM — 24.182.27.226 — link — abuse?
Why are some of those even included? Steve Smith and D-Bird, Matt Leinart's 5 second stint on ESPN, Lendale's Prank...those are included based on what? They're event's that actually happened? None of them are illegal, Leinart's potential ineligibility for saying "coming up next, SportsCenter!" is laughable as an offense at best, and at least some of these were addressed by both team and university. What is the point of these musings?
posted on May 30, 2007 8:58 PM — link — abuse?
@USCLink - Lack of discipline?? And for the Carroll/White suicide prank, I think you'll recall that it made the news for the better part of a month, with Carroll having to defend the team & apologize several times.
USCLink said:
posted on May 30, 2007 9:08 PM — 24.182.27.226 — link — abuse?
It may be considered classless, but since when does newsworthiness dictate the level of discipline of a program? the guys over at BN had an NCAA title stripped in women's softball, but it wasn't a discipline issue because no one cares what fUCLA accomplishes in sports? Is that the standard you're going by?
I mean, lots of those are legitimate issues. The abuse ones, (esp. Frostee Rucker's and Winston Justice's) are bad bad issues, and I feel PC should have come down harder on them.
But some of those issues are absurd! How is discipline impacted by the prank? How is it effected by the facebook group? Especially considering the circumstances you fail to address, such as the RESOLUTION of those events. The players left the facebook group, made multiple official apologies, and communicated directly with the girl who was offended in an effort to deal with the problem and remove themselves...regardless, she blew a whistle.
Have a list, that's fine. But sure the stuff that's on it deserves to be on it. 25 events in the past six seasons is a rather dubious claim when you consider what some of them are.
SEMINOLE_NATION said:
posted on May 30, 2007 9:18 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Kev, I appreciate the mention of FSU. It's had it's fair share of problems no doubt, nothing to deny or hide from there. However, I don't think FSU has ever had that many assault/sexual assault instances.
I agree with the mention of pranks and Leinart's ESPN thing, all these instances have a NEGATIVE impact on the university.
As for Smith's broken jaw not being "reported" and that being a case closed... not even close. Who in the HELL breaks their own teammates jaw!? There may not have been "official" police charges filed but that in NO way takes away from the negative actions of the program. PC really needs to tighten things up, I'd think teammates breaking each other's jaws would lead to SERIOUS action - it didn't. Look at all the stuff AFTER that, including LATER that year - a BRAWL with TEAMMATES! How's PC let the program get out of hand that much? First a teammate breaks another guys jaw, then a TEAM BRAWL. For all the smack said about Miami getting in brawls... at least they don't within their own team. That's disgraceful.
Seriously, I'm not saying USC is "THE dirtiest" or anything but PC needs to take some SERIOUS action.
That chain of events is inexcusable.
T-Mac said:
posted on May 30, 2007 9:47 PM — 66.78.139.117 — link — abuse?
WOW, Albert Means was given $115,000 and a jeep wrangler to come to Alabama.
Alabama got 5 YEARS PROBATION for that!!!
Meanwhile, at USC Reggie Bush and Dwayne Jarrett get all their bills paid and plenty of gifts.
Funny how that works!?!?!?!Some schools are SINGLED OUT and Some schools receive IMMUNITY!!!!!!
That's IRONIC...hmmm
*T-Mac approved this message.
Paragon SC said:
posted on May 30, 2007 9:59 PM — 24.0.210.247 — link — abuse?
Like my friend DC Trojan said: Just goes to show that if you repeat the same old s**t long enough people take it seriously.
Gotta admit it looks like you must be on the BN mailing list in order to keep up with the list of transgressions here. Not a lot going on in your off-season Kevin?
I look at some of these things here and laugh, a lot of filler and not a lot of substance, like most things on this site. You mention lack of discipline above, in whose eyes? Yours? So Pete Carroll is loose so what! If he wasn’t winning AND being a part of one of the most storied programs in CFB no one would pay attention.
You’re kidding me right?
- Hazing a QB? Hell, I guess that doesn’t happen anywhere else either. Cry me a river.
- Two players get into a fight and one has his jaw broken? Gee, I never thought athletes got into fights especially football players, if it was two students we wouldn’t give it another thought. S**t Happens. Go figure…
- Damage to the dorms after players get into a water fight? A water fight! You can’t be serious. Guess you’ve never been to a frat house, every one I went to with my brother who was a UCLA grad looked like a war zone so why would the dorms be any different, water fights or not. You got older kids Kevin? They tend to go through a slob stage between the years of 18-22, I know I have 2 in college.
* Solicitation of a hooker? Big deal I guess you never went to a strip club especially in Florida where anything goes, the local talent tends to solicitate you.
- Throwing a tackling dummy off the roof? Tasteless I’ll admit, but compared to some of things that go on between teams during rivalry week this is pretty tame.
- Taking recruits to an alums restaurant? Like Trojan Horse said above, old news here.
I could go on here but what’s the point?
As for the other legal issues, I would agree that there are pretty bad acts there but I don’t see any convictions on that list. And as I have said elsewhere, something that often gets lost in this discussion is that we don't know really what happened in some of these instances. I was more pissed off that Sanchez used a fake ID to get into a bar, that clearly showed intent, than the whole sexual assault thing as I knew there was more to the story and that it probably never happened. Accusations like that are often treated like nuclear warfare, as once someone accuses someone of it they are immediately on the defensive; you know guilty until proven innocent.
I'm sure that some of these incidents had more to do with over zealous cops and prosecutors than actual transgressions like the Sanchez incident. I loved how the local news stations camped out at the dorm when he was arrested. Talk about sensational. SC being as high profile as it is would be a great trophy to hang on ones mantle if they could bag a player doing something stupid. To me it's more like shoot first ask questions later. Maybe the charges were dropped because there was never anything there but the player is now stained like in Rey's case for nothing more that getting into a fight. I've seen more than my fair share of donnybrooks in my younger years and I wasn’t arrested so to me it's no big deal.
Seems to me that if the NCCA had issues with SC they would do something about it, they certainly have investigated and punished other schools in the past for a whole host of issues. If they don’t have the stones to do it, or if they don’t have the evidence, as in the Bush case, then it seems to me that there isn’t much they can do, nor is it SC’s problem.
Football is a violent sport and the top players have a certain killer extinct. Couple that with all the coddling that players are given and it shouldn’t surprise anyone that these sorts of incidents happen, it isn’t right and I certainly won’t excuse it but I don’t know why anyone is surprised. I’m all for character but I’m not naive either, look carefully at the sports landscape there is a lot of character missing and I can only worry about my own little corner of the world. I’m not happy with some of the things on this list but they are not all true nor are they as big a deal as you are or thee crew from across town would make you believe.
I couldn’t care less if SC is compared to any other program. I don’t follow those schools and I have little concern about them as I am not a part of their fan base.
TrojanHorse said:
posted on May 30, 2007 10:02 PM — 75.75.86.11 — link — abuse?
using Identical parameters "coaches name" arrested
Mack Brown 33000
Steve Spurrier 48500
Urban Meyer 32000
Nick Saban 70,700
Bill Callahan 38,000So no issue with Mack Brown at Texas?? how come
How bout the Gamecocks bring in Spurrier?
Urban Meyer is what almost 20 years younger than PC yet has 32K hits???? no issue with UF Kev under Urban's watch?
How about LSU bringing in the king of arrests himself in Nick Saban? come on.. 70+K... oh yeah.. we wouldn't want to rile up the LSU fans would we kev
Callahan and his 38K are ok to bring the Huskers back to prominence since I don't see too much about them either..need i keep looking???
TrojanHorse said:
posted on May 30, 2007 10:05 PM — 75.75.86.11 — link — abuse?
when you are the gold standard, you will be talked about on a daily basis
if you look at a bunch of these links they are nothing but blogs that will say.. PC and the trojans are doing XYZ (nothing bad) and the next paragraph will talk about some other school where an arrest occurs yet on this search, it is a hit..
of course CFB blogs will mention PC and the trojans.. hence the high number of hits.. who cares if UConn and Randy edsell do something wrong.. other than a local paper and blog it gets no hits.. SC will get hit dozens of times for the same DUI.. go look for yourself.. if this was UConn, there are maybe two hits
T-Mac said:
posted on May 30, 2007 10:20 PM — 66.78.139.117 — link — abuse?
Trojan Horse, post 2. Kevin isn't slummin today. Kevin is bringing issues to light at USC that need to be addressed. For some reason...these things are being SWEPT under the rug.
The Leinart ESPN commercial.Cmon, TrojanHorse you don't think Matt Leinart was compensated for that???
Get Real bro.
Leinart was paid for that.
That 1 infraction alone is enough for USC to face sanctions.
That's just 1 infraction bro.Bush and Jarrett were put up in the lap-of-luxury.
2 more MAJOR INFRACTIONS there!!!
These are enough to warrant a minimum 5 years probation and scholarship reductions.
Hell, Alabama paid Albert Means $115,000 dollars, gave him a Jeep Wrangler, and received 5 years probation and scholarship reductions that are haunting the Tide program Today!!!
TrojanHorse, I know you are a USC fan bro.
These ISSUES need to be looked into by the NCAA.
It's only fair.
It needs to be fair and balanced.
*T-Mac approved this message.
posted on May 30, 2007 10:21 PM — link — abuse?
@USCLink - So, by your logic, since no players were charged, the players in question were suspended, they returned/paid for the merchandise, the agents in question were prosecuted (the first ever agent prosecutions in FL)... so no one should bother to remember Free Shoes University?
It may seem moot to you - "no harm, no foul" right? - but small issues like players taking actions on their own that make them ineligible (Leinart), regardless of how insignificant, create a culture that lacks accountability.
Hence, Rey Maualuga's "I own the police," comment.
Two years ago, BoiFromTroy blasted Carroll's lack of control. I agreed with him then and I still do. The real question - what's changed? Not much at USC.
Hark back to May 2006, when Carrol was taking the bull by the horns:May 2006
"We needed to see this coming, and we didn't," Carroll was quoted saying in a column about the recent spate of trouble facing some of the team's current and former players. "It's gone beyond all the heads up, all the alerts, all the education we give these kids. We need to do more."
May 2006
Carroll said he is ultimately responsible for everything that goes on in his program."I'm not going to make any excuses. I'm not going to point the finger at anyone else. I've got to do a better job," he said. "We've got to continue to get the word out. We're trying to do everything right.
And there's been what... seven documented incidents since then?! So... when exactly is he going to take control? Just saying. Carroll's weakness is discipline.Just win, baby.
posted on May 30, 2007 10:30 PM — link — abuse?
@Trojanhorse - So... two of the guys you mention are higher than Carroll... Spurrier and Saban. I think that helps my argument! ;)
goodolnuma5 said:
posted on May 30, 2007 10:31 PM — 65.24.221.145 — link — abuse?
Just get ratings baby!
Its all attitude, remember Jarret's act in the Rose Bowl? He felt he COULD get away with that crap and did! Just think if that happens at Bama? tOSU? Okla? Miami? ND?!!
D@mn straight theyre gettin a pass. Who else has that kind of pull out west? Yet not ONE story about it from ESPN, SI, or any legit authority, not ONE.
posted on May 30, 2007 10:33 PM — link — abuse?
@ Barry in MO - Doing "charlie wies" arrested gets me 31,900 results. Again, I'm not saying this is a science or even something reliable, I'm just saying - it's certainly interesting.
T-Mac said:
posted on May 30, 2007 10:52 PM — 66.78.139.117 — link — abuse?
This is hilarious. All the USC fans do not wanna discuss Reggie Bush and Dwayne Jarrett getting all their bills paid, being set-up domestic/automobile wise, and getting (gifts).
Or the Matt Leinart ESPN commercial.
Leinart didn't get paid for that.
Yeah, keep thinkin that!
These are infractions that need to be addressed.
The Titanic was deemed (Unsinkable).
The Titanic sunk!
*T-Mac approved this message.
USCLink said:
posted on May 31, 2007 1:07 AM — 24.182.27.226 — link — abuse?
Clearly, discipline is not a concern of mine...I mean, its not like I criticized how some events were handled
"I mean, lots of those are legitimate issues. The abuse ones, (esp. Frostee Rucker's and Winston Justice's) are bad bad issues, and I feel PC should have come down harder on them."
And obviously, Leinart saying "Coming up next, Sportscenter!" is an egegrious error.
Make a straw man and attack me. That's fine. It doesn't address the fact that a lot of these are bullshit, and you know it. If they're insignificant, by your own admission, then they're insignificant. By definition, or at least connotation, that means they are unworthy of consider in the grand scheme of your witch hunt.
We have issues. We know we have issues. You pointed out where BFT called us out, Paragon has called us out, and our own message boards have called us out. Why the hell do you draw special attention to the ones that don't mean shit?
What's your bone to pick? Did Nestor write this thing entirely?
Just whine baby...jealousy's an ugly beast.
College Pigskin Fan said:
posted on May 31, 2007 1:52 AM — 63.19.20.5 — link — abuse?
If it's USC, Florida St., Miami, Virginia Tech, Penn St. or any other program with a chain gang on their roster, there is one thing we can all agree on, for many years the "characters" have received the welcome mat by College football coaches and AD's, along with NFL head coaches and owners.
Until the punishment matches the crime, and players are made examples of, this will continue to be a repeat pattern.
TrojanHorse said:
posted on May 31, 2007 6:43 AM — 75.75.86.11 — link — abuse?
Since you are going to call out USC, I want to make sure that you at least get it right
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_6025271
USC linebacker Kaluka Maiava was briefly hospitalized Tuesday after being struck while trying to pull his brother out of a large altercation in Hawaii, according his step-father.
Maiava suffered a swollen lip and cut eye during the altercation but was OK.
"It was 35 people against five and Kaluka was trying to pull his little brother out of there and somebody punched him in the side of the head," said Scott Mahoney, who is Maiava's step-father. "We had to take him to the hospital."
Mahoney dismissed speculation Maiava hit some high- school students.
"Kaluka wasn't even fighting," Mahoney said. "All of a sudden it's him beating up a girl. That's ridiculous."
No arrest warrants have been issued in Hawaii. Mahoney said Maiava spoke to USC coaches about the incident.
Pinkard update: Safety Josh Pinkard's blood-alcohol level was 0.08, just above the legal limit when he was arrested by a California Highway Patrol officer May 17
Case closed: Paperwork will be submitted to the City Attorney's office today to officially dismiss a misdemeanor count of battery against linebacker Rey Maualuga stemming from when he punched a student at a party in 2005
posted on May 31, 2007 8:06 AM — link — abuse?
I want to make sure that you at least get it right
So Kaluka Maiava's stepfather is the gospel on what happened? And he got his story from...?
I've already recognized in OP that it's a rumor, so let's just give it a few days and see what shakes out.
After all, Reggie Bush's stepfather seemed pretty certain he didn't hit anyone up for money, either, right?
Cane_Nation said:
posted on May 31, 2007 8:13 AM — 205.166.218.4 — link — abuse?
Just wait until USC has a 3 loss season or worse, that's when it will on come crashing down. Butch Davis and Larry Coker had turned Miami into a squeaky clean program as long as we were playing for championships.
Plus, I've said before, USC is following the same path of Miami from 2000 forward. I see alot of similarities beginning with Palmer's last year. Look it up.
SEMINOLE_NATION said:
posted on May 31, 2007 8:29 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
Kudos to Kev for bringing this to light. These things needed to be brought up.
Watching USC fans try to justify or defend this list is interesting.
I've seen things said long the lines of "well it happens other places" and what have you.
They're right, it DOES happen other places, yet that doesnt JUSTIFY it happening at USC.
I've also seen them say things along the lines of "well it goes unnoticed at UCONN and other schools" and again, they're right. Guess what though fellas? You're USC! DEAL WITH IT! You're the top program in CF right now, guess what that means! You're UNDER THE MICROSCOPE! USC gets all the glory when they do something good, well, on the other hand when they do something wrong they SHOULD be chastised. FSU endured the same criticism during the 90's. Comes with the territory.
Take the lumps and don't whine about people questioning things that have happened with your program.
Doug said:
posted on May 31, 2007 8:47 AM — 169.200.185.19 — link — abuse?
In defense of Miami they have only been in the ACC what 3 years now? The ACC doesn't like to be embrassed I think that will be self cleaning. ------ Now onto FSU, Bobby Bowden has always said he will give a kid 2 chances. If the kid blows one chance why would Bowden throw him on the streets to fail again. You blow that second chance -- gone this time. Much to my chagrin Bowden is normally right.
Karl Manning said:
posted on May 31, 2007 11:27 AM — 63.162.238.252 — link — abuse?
I've heard of motivation stunts, but one of the most unusual ones was that of a retired coach (and frequent target of the NCAA)--Jackie Sherrill. I believe he had his Miss. State team observe a castration of a bull prior to a 1991 game with Texas.
Glass House said:
posted on May 31, 2007 11:36 AM — 64.128.130.134 — link — abuse?
Can someone list all these so called Miami arrests I keep reading about? Players playing while at Miami in college? Please can someone list them? I've done google search after google search and can't find much in the last 7 years. That perception is a beeatch......because the proof isn't in the pudding.
Remember arrests - not the FIU brawl - not the death of a player....arrested by the police and then convicted of a crime. I was able to find like 3 or 4 since 2000 and none convicted of anything. Heck there are over 20 involving University of Florida.
Blog boy should blog the Gators or Ohio State if he is so concerned.
posted on May 31, 2007 12:17 PM — 65.0.125.227 — link — abuse?
T-Mac,
Never fear...USC's worm will turn...The Yahoo! Sports Writers won't let this die, and the PAC-10 is also very deliberately and slowly researching the entire situation...
From what I know, lack of institutional control seems to be the pervasive thread that runs through the post...
Detractors of these incidents will tell you it's college kids being college kids, unfairly prosecuted for sexual assault, held up to too high of a standard by a society that considers prostitution to be illegal, that a female who claims sexual assault almost always erases the innocent until proven guilty and due process aspects of our democracy.
They may have points...
But, as an athlete that's been recruited to a school that's had as much-if not more-success in the past five years than any other in collegiate football, you have to know that scrutiny will come. You have to know that you can't get hummers from pros...You can't get involved with skanks that will frame you...and that you can't step out of line without reprecussions.
LSU is having the same sort of offseason...One DB gets a promising O-Lineman caught up in some BS, and then breaks an all-world recruit's (whose already enrolled) jaw! Then, we follow that up with Mr. Perrilloux goes Ocean's 11, 12, and 13 on us...
The difference is...No one from our campus is trying to make light of the fact that we had some bad apples, and they can, do, and will threaten the whole bushel in Baton Rouge...
In Cali, they want you to bemoan societal norms and mores, and tell us that it's not the kids who can't obey obviously accepted and long-standing laws, rules, regulations, and patterns of typical behaviour by civilized members of society...it's society that needs to change and understand them...
Gimme a break...
posted on May 31, 2007 12:30 PM — link — abuse?
@JBoe #34 - I'm not certain that the Reggie Bush issue has completely gone away just yet. It's still under investigation.
TrojanHorse said:
posted on May 31, 2007 12:51 PM — 132.228.195.207 — link — abuse?
re: Seminole_nation post #32
(I've also seen them say things along the lines of "well it goes unnoticed at UCONN and other schools" and again, they're right. Guess what though fellas? You're USC! DEAL WITH IT! You're the top program in CF right now, guess what that means! You're UNDER THE MICROSCOPE! USC gets all the glory when they do something good, well, on the other hand when they do something wrong they SHOULD be chastised. FSU endured the same criticism during the 90's. Comes with the territory. Take the lumps and don't whine about people questioning things that have happened with your program.)USC is dealing with it.. the same as everyone else EXCEPT that it gets put in the paper more often, put on blogs more often etc.. However overall this is being dealt with the same way that everything else is being dealt with all over the nation whether its UConn, LSU, FSU, SC or Hawaii... Teams, Schools, conferences, NCAA do an investigation; results come in and > players get something from running sprints or doing drills at 5am to being booted from the team and/or school, players get suspended from games, players get kept out of spring ball etc. The issue is that if its UConn or these days even FSU, who cares.. no one cares if someone beats the crap out of someone on a crappy team, no one cares if a dummy is tossed from a parking garage at Marshall, no one even cares (suspects excluded) if there is a false sexual assault charge at Mississippi, no one cares if there is a team meeting at a former FB players restaurant in Charlottesville, and it goes on and on.. but if you are USC, Texas, LSU or a top notch NC caliber program.. then everyone cares.. the M/O here seems to be that its as fun tearing teams (people) down as it is to build them up
Microscope: No kidding sherlock.. SC has been under the microscope since 2003.. no one denies it, I agree it comes with the turf.. a 4-7 SC team would not have this blog, I'd bet my season tix on it..
SC fans (and the team) takes their lumps.. when you say whine about it.. I'd say defending your school and whining are two different things.. it sounds more like you are whining that FSU is a has been program so instead of trying to get back to the elite level of the 90's you will do what you can to bring SC down to the FSU level of the present.
Tiger Ed #37.. as far as I can see, Lack of Institutional control has never been applied by the NCAA for crimes convicted of.. or even arrests where the allegations turned out to be false.. for throwing dummies off garges.. or the sum of the lists above.. If the RB allegations were ever proven those are the types of things that get a school in trouble with the NCAA.. as best as I can tell.. the police blotter & the NCAA's lack of institutional control are a mutually exclusive issue
Even using your LSU example.. are those team issues.. sure they are but they are not anything that the NCAA would even care about.. I do get a kick out of your 2nd to last paragraph stating that no one at LSU is making light of the fact.. well I'm sure if I go visit a few LSU blogs I can find plenty of examples of what you are trying to deny.. and then you turn around and say the entire state of CA thinks that kids can't obey accepted laws etc... 90% of CA can't stand SC.. so I'm sure you will get all the Bruin, Bear, Cardinal, Aztec, Fresno fans to just agree with what every SC fan states.. All Cali people (all 38M of us) all think alike.. typical cajun.. hows that.. all you people are alike
USCLink said:
posted on May 31, 2007 1:16 PM — 75.58.244.38 — link — abuse?
"So Kaluka Maiava's stepfather is the gospel on what happened? And he got his story from...?"
Because wikipedia and other CFB blogs are extremely reliable sources regarding the proof of allegations against us.
W/ regards to the Bill Doba incident:
"Cornerback Josh Pinkard shielded Washington State coach Bill Doba as the players ran by.
"I saw him getting knocked around a bit," Pinkard said. "It was a respect issue."
Wow...clearly that's a discipline problem, when one of your players defends the other team's coach.
W/ regards to Leinart:
"This was the type of thing where it was obvious the student-athlete was not attempting to become an endorser of a network," Barrett said.
Your links do as much to disprove your points as to make them. Like I said...If you're going to make a list, make it accurately.
Besides...You're a pretty bad person by your own standards:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 121,000 for kevin donahue arrested. (0.10 seconds)" That beats PC, Bowden, and JoePa combined.
'Cane Mutiny said:
posted on May 31, 2007 1:26 PM — 65.9.250.213 — link — abuse?
See, this it what happens. Anytime anything happens at Miami, all sorts of lists and stuff like this come out and everyone's outraged and there's all sorts of "They should close down their football program" and everyone's calling the Canes thugs.
A few weeks ago a lady I know asked me my favorite football team, and naturally I told her the Canes, and she goes off on this rant about how they're just recruited thugs, and college sports should be for real students. Then she couldn't respond when I told her that Dartmouth and Holy Cross had a brawl the same week as the one with FIU.
Face it, every team has problems. Trojan fans, you're looking at a long list of offenses. Say what you want now, but next time Miami's on the spot, I don't want to hear it from you guys.
..It's great to be a Miami Hurricane..
Glass House said:
posted on May 31, 2007 1:49 PM — 64.128.130.134 — link — abuse?
Wow no replies? Where are all the Miami Hurricane arrests and convictions? Thought so....lol....let USC wallow in their own muck. They will have to endure it beacuse they've created it but they aren't alone. Name a team any team and you can find bad seeds and apples. It how much make up you fools put on the pig that is the funny thing. A bad seed is a bad seed and it should just stay that way.
posted on May 31, 2007 2:01 PM — link — abuse?
"kevin donahue" arrested = 493 results
You're not very good at this 'internet' thing, are you USCLink?!
CPB said:
posted on May 31, 2007 2:41 PM — 72.83.105.216 — link — abuse?
Kevin- I get 124,000 Results 1 - 10 of about 124,000 for kevin donahue arrested. (0.06 seconds)
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8
&rlz=1T4GGLR_en___US207&q=kevin+donahue+arrestedTrojanHorse said:
posted on May 31, 2007 3:00 PM — 132.228.195.207 — link — abuse?
USC Link #42... there is no point in even talking about the Matt and ESPN issue.. if that is what they want to harp on let them.. it sure doesn't hurt SC and 99% of the CFB world knows this was the lamest violation to ever occur and more so that this type of post just shows you how far the lame will reach
Joe said:
posted on May 31, 2007 3:11 PM — 72.91.91.6 — link — abuse?
All schools have student athletes that misbehave and get into trouble.
It would appear that some schools are far better at keeping such things out of the media and scrutiny. Apparently USC TENN and UF rank high!!
Really, the question that should be asked is how did the school, coaches, and athletic departments handle the issues?Which school has suspended or dismissed the most players for discipline problems versus those that have looked away or did little??
What kind of discipline was given?
Here is a list:
Domestic Violence- Punishments?Gambling- Punishments?
Drug Use - Punishments?
Academics- Punishments?Class attendance- Punishments?
JMHO but I don't believe any school has been stiffer in the discipline than FSU. Of course in the court of public opinion Bowden is chastised no matter what discipline is given.Think of the following list of highly rated players that have been dismissed, suspended, or missed critical games. NAME ANY SCHOOL THAT HAS DISCIPLINED MORE?
Chris Rix _ missed Sugar Bowl- Academics
Darnell Dockett- Missed Sugar bowl
Peter Warrick- Missed Miami game and others
Lav Coles- dismissed
AD Mcpherson- dismissed for Lying and ck theft
Marvin Minnis - Missed MNC game against Oklahoma Academics
Randy Moss- Kicked off team never played a game
Rock Preston- Missed 1996 MNC game -academics
Mario Edwards- suspended for one year DV
Sean Key- Suspended for one year DV
Shawn McCorkle- Dismissed
Bryne Malone - Dismissed fire arm dischargeI am sure there are more but those examples of misbehavior and actual punishment. Any other school care to provide examples of such consequences?
Joe said:
posted on May 31, 2007 3:18 PM — 72.91.91.6 — link — abuse?
Glass House?
The names of Willie Williams, Nate Webster, Tremain Mack and Andre Johnson are a testament on how Miami deals with the standards it holds for its players.JMO but I would say the standards for Academics- Johnson, Arrests- Tremain Mack and Nate Webster, and Incoming criminal records- Willie Williams are not particularly flattering.
How many arrests did Mack have before he was finally dismissed?
posted on May 31, 2007 5:13 PM — 65.0.125.227 — link — abuse?
TrojanHorse...
I've gone nowhere near racial stereotypes...at any point...
I was talking about rule of law and comparisons of two programs...and believe me, you'll find a lot of people who wanted Perrilloux GONE from my home site, and from some others. I encourage you to go look around.
Just like there are people who will say-like you-that it's much ado about nothing in terms of SC, you can find fans who think likewise about LSU's problems.
But, let's draw a paralell. We're not trying to get kids eligible after off-the-field issues with teammates. We're kicking their asses out of school. We're not letting thieves get educated at our University, nor star on our football team. We're removing them from our environment.
We're not making excuses. We've suspended, expelled, and flat out failed to renew scholarships as punishment for bad behaviour.
But, again, you're ignoring the point I made by trying to pull my program into the muck. "Well, we're not so bad, just look at you!" seems to be your current rallying cry.
Never once admitting you've got coddled, enabled, and kids with senses of entitlement that basically walk around skirting rules, breaking the law, and out of your mouth comes the audacity to complain that the light being thrown on you is too harsh?
Again, you refused to take on my point head on, so let me refocus our discussion...
You've got kids who walk around like laws don't exist, team rules don't matter, and wonder why we even care? You'd rather talk about how society should change to allow them to cruise for pros, get involved with frame-up artist women looking for a quick buck and a seat on a daytime talkshow, or pump on Barry's Miracle BALCO Flaxseed Cream...
You want society to bend to accomodate the behaviour of these kids, as opposed to having these kids recognize authority, decency, and a little structure in their lives.
As I said earlier...gimme a break...
So Cal UMSC said:
posted on May 31, 2007 5:36 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
2005 - USC DE Frostee Rucker investigated for spousal battery
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2493684
That was June of 2006 - When Rucker was a CINCINATTI BENGAL! Get your sh!t straight, Kevin/FUCLA
posted on May 31, 2007 6:21 PM — link — abuse?
@CPB - As stated in the OP, it was "name" arrested. (See the quotes - big difference, as the link above clearly shows) If you believe this thread is full of false accusations, just ask Eric Wright.
@C-Dogg - Might be a record. ;) I find it exceptionally interesting that USC fans would rather debate severity (aka that doesn't count, this doesn't count) than even consider the issue and debate the full scope. KOOL-AID.
@Joe - Honestly? I couldn't agree more. Booting a starting WR (Coles) over $22 worth of discounts at Dillards right before the national championship speaks volumes for FSU (or F$U, as some prefer).
@SoCal - The case is from 2005. He was charged in 2006. He plead in 2007. Them's the facts, as they say.
SEMINOLE_NATION said:
posted on May 31, 2007 6:23 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
TrojanHorse #40:
"SC fans (and the team) takes their lumps.. when you say whine about it.. I'd say defending your school and whining are two different things.. it sounds more like you are whining that FSU is a has been program so instead of trying to get back to the elite level of the 90's you will do what you can to bring SC down to the FSU level of the present."
WOW!!! Now there may be the problem!!! You may have just proved my point.
First, you can deflect the discipline problems of USC on FSU's performance to try and change the subject all you like. I don't recall "whining" ever on this blog about fsu being a "has been" (much like USC before PC huh? wait, we havent had a losing season yet). Actually, all I've done is looked forward to the future of the FSU program with the coaching changes. Me whining? You have a CREATIVE imagination.
Here's the problem with the USC situation...
"I'd say defending your school and whining are two different things"
I'd agree 100%!!! You're not whining (my mistake). Even worse, you're DEFENDING these things. You're DEFENDING the fact USC has had NINE different ASSAULT/SEXUAL ASSAULT instances. You're DEFENDING the fact a USC player breaks another players jaw. You're DEFENDING the fact USC got into a team brawl in a dorm room.
Maybe as a fan base you should stop DEFENDING all this negative shit and be OUTRAGED it's happening and not the fact it's being pointed out.
posted on May 31, 2007 6:37 PM — link — abuse?
I'd agree 100%!!! You're not whining (my mistake). Even worse, you're DEFENDING these things. You're DEFENDING the fact USC has had NINE different ASSAULT/SEXUAL ASSAULT instances. You're DEFENDING the fact a USC player breaks another players jaw. You're DEFENDING the fact USC got into a team brawl in a dorm room.
Maybe as a fan base you should stop DEFENDING all this negative shit and be OUTRAGED it's happening and not the fact it's being pointed out.
STANDING OVATION!!! That's my damn point!
TampaGator said:
posted on May 31, 2007 6:42 PM — 152.163.100.70 — link — abuse?
Odd. I find myself agreeing with 'noles on this one. Must be the off season.
As Semi-Nation suggested, you can't put up that that kinda' BS. UF has canned several coaches for less--maybe because we got kicked in the nuts for that "institutional control" thing back in the early '80's. USC ought'nt wait for that hammer to fall--it ain't pretty.
My $.02.
GO GATORS!!50 Cal USMC said:
posted on May 31, 2007 7:09 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
KEVIN, Be Clear.Are you suggesting that "USC" doesnt get punished by the NCAA ?... or that "USC under Pete Carroll" doesnt ? 'Cause USC has had their fair-share of punishment/sanctions over the years.
(Go confer with your FUCLA crownies, and get back to me)
USCLink said:
posted on May 31, 2007 7:22 PM — 75.58.244.38 — link — abuse?
Kevin...
We are pissed that that shit has gone down. We've called out our team. We've called out our coaches. The vast majority of links you used were of 'SC blogs calling out 'SC problems.
However some of the shit that you consider a big deal (Leinart's ad, our player defending Bill Doba, Lendale's prank, Papadakis taverna) aren't. And lumping them all in with those assault cases is bullshit. Its obvious We need to deal with our issues. And its equally obvious you need to figure out what serious issues really are.
posted on May 31, 2007 7:41 PM — link — abuse?
USCLink - OK. I'm glad to see where (almost) on the same page. The difference, as an outsider, I see players acting out on their own and bringing grief (large or small) on the university. That's a discipline thing. If y'all want to get pissed about the big things first, I can respect that. I still hold that the little things contribute to the big things, but I can agree to disagree.
So Cal/50 Cal - Carroll is the problem (or rather his lack of discipline).
Eye of the Tiger said:
posted on May 31, 2007 7:54 PM — 68.107.110.83 — link — abuse?
"So Cal/50 Cal - Carroll is the problem (or rather his lack of discipline)." Kevin D
That about sums it up. Carroll is more inclined to play house with his team than groom them into grown men who can conduct themselves on AND off the field. In the larger scope of things is that even his job? He's there to win the games and that's what they do. Maybe they need to start up a disciplinary department to get some guys in there who actually give a sh__ how they act.
TrojanHorse said:
posted on May 31, 2007 8:12 PM — 132.228.195.206 — link — abuse?
My two cents here but 1. how do I bold/italicize on here.. and two.. I stole this response elsewhere.. the I referred in here is not me.. I'll make it clear when I comment by starting with the word edit
2001 - Pete Carroll hired by USC
Not a crime.
2003 - USC OT Winston Justice plead no contest to solicitation of a prostitute.
Stupid, but a victimless crime that had nothing to do with the program and everything to do with the company Winston kept. He was in a car with his buds when it happened.
edited to add: I can't see this as anything I'd lose sleep over.. BFD...
2004 - USC OT Winston Justice was arrested on suspicion of felony assault with a deadly weapon - plead no contest.
Someone snuck up on him who he thought was a friend and he waved the gun at the person. The gun itself was a replica firearm. I used to have a toy watergun when I was a kid that looked exactly like one of those military firearms. Again, stupid crime but it's disengenuous not to tell the full story there.
edited to add that I see this as more of a problem only b/c its another issue... one should know not to brandish even fake firearms around.. stupid.. what can I say.. but no one was hurt
2004 - USC RB Hershel Dennis investigated for an alleged sexual assault. Suspended for "breaking team rules".
And he was cleared by USC and LAPD! The girl was pass-out drunk (and probably high as a kite), only recognized Hershel among the people at the party and stupidly named him.
Hershel's problem was that he violated a curfew and was punished severely as he would have stolen even more carries from Bush and White that year. Instead he was given NOTHING but garbage reps the rest of the year.
edited to add.. since HD was the starter at this point.. he suffered a severe penalty and essentially killed his career.. even if he gets to play this year.. we are talking four seasons later.. fyi, he supposedly will get a 6th year as a medical RS
2005 - USC CB Eric Wright was arrested for investigation of sexual assault.
Serious crime allegation.
2005 - USC CB suspended three semesters after police found 136 Ecstasy pills in his apartment
And he would have never been welcomed back. USC dutifully parted ways with him. The LAPD couldn't find enough to prosecute, however but USC parted ways just the same.
edited to add: justice served.. what more could SC do to him???
2005 - USC TE Dominique Bird gets a broken jaw in a fight with WR Steve Smith
And many people have punched friends and siblings causing injury. Non-story. The "fight" was a one punch ordeal after losing at some video game.
edit: this one baffles me as to why its listed.. if no bones were broken, you would never have heard this story - ever... I guarantee there are fights for stupid reasons on every team.. do I care.. hell no.. should I care.. hell no
2005 - USC DE Frostee Rucker investigated for spousal battery
I could be wrong but this either happened once he was in the NFL or was a reprint of the allegation that dogged him at Colorado State? Either way it wasn't while at USC.
edit: I read your link and IF i read it correctly.. Frostee did that after he left SC.. Two weeks prior to the date in mid to late june would have him out of SC.. He left SC the first or second week of May I believe
2005 - 10 USC players investigated for hazing QB Mark Sanchez
Non-story. They shaved his head. At the Elite 11 Camp last year the other quarterbacks tried to cut future south carolina quarterback stephen garcia's hair. It's called team sports.
edited to add:.. are you really trying to bring hazing into this.. a shaved head on a guy who loved, still loves a lot of hair.. now really.. who picked this story.. oh yeah never mind.. you picked the Leinart SC promo.. *rolls eyes*
2005 - Several players investigated for damage to dorms following a fight among players
Non-story. Roughhousing and some broken chairs later paid for most likely.
edited to add: I do believe restitution was made by the players.. again.. if it were my kids.. i'd make them pay for it out of their own pocket and call them stupid.. after that I'd forget about it.. I sure wouldn't call them out of control..
2005 - USC RB LenDale White simulates suicide by throwing a tackling dummy off a building in view of the team as a "prank" devised by White & Carroll
It was a Halloween prank! Non-story. Everyone got the joke instantly.
edited to add: except for Kev
2005 - USC players accused of pushing Washington State Head Coach Bill Doba before halftime
Non-story. They were running by him in the tunnel at halftime as his team walked in, USC's guys are instructed to run into the stadium. I've been in those tunnels and other tunnels and gotten nearly run over several times as the players come through. It was bound to happen.
edited to add: I remember an incident but I don't recall what the details were.. I think I recall that Bill Doba wasn't too upset the next day though..
2005 - USC LB Rey Maualuga arrested for misdemeanor battery after punching a man at an off-campus Halloween party
Legitimate crime. Rey had to deal with proper authorities for this. This isn't exactly an excuse but his father was dying and appears to have been the cause of his behavior. He died not more than a month or two later.
edited to add.. no excuses.. dumb move.. and yes Rey Rey has issues.. he's one guy I'm not sure is all there
2005 - USC QB Matt Leinart is ruled ineligible briefly by the NCAA after an ESPN TV promotion
Non-story. ESPN asked him to improptu talk into the camera for them. See where this is going?
edited to add.. this is my favorite reach of the day.. WTF Kev; I find it hard to believe anyone thinks he was on the take by ESPN
2006 - Football team investigated for recruiting violations in visits to Papadakis Taverna
Which involved John Papadakis asking recruits if they wanted to be Trojans. Minor violation, USC no longer hosts its functions there as a precaution. Too bad, it was a great true Trojan gathering for each recruiting dinner there.
edited to add: Great Rest., I've been there a couple times (if you like Greek).. is it a violation.. probably.. does it make SC OOC.. I don't think so.. its been going on for decades and no one else seemed to care
2006 - USC QB Matt Leinart was cited by the Pac-10 for illegal workouts at USC
Non-story. He had his trainer on the USC campus instead of going to someplace else. Given that USC is an urban campus and USC's practice field is the nearest thing other than the run-down local HS's or driving 30-50 mins in LA traffic to Orange County to work out ... it's excuseable. Stupid NCAA rule.
edit: not sure about this one.. don't really recall it
2006 - USC DE Frostee Rucker charged with two misdemeanor counts of spousal battery and two counts of vandalism from the 2005 beating of his girlfriend
This is in dispute to this very day. Serious crime obviously but there was enough suspicion about the g/f at the time to raise a red flag about the charge.
edited to ask??? I take it this one differs from the one above?
2006 - USC RB Reggie Bush and his family investigated for improper gifts and benefits
Subsequent investigations have made clear this was done outside the view of USC. Serious NCAA violation but not exactly like the program had anything to do with it other than making him popular.
edited to add: Do I think something funny went on.. hell ya.. do I think the coaches knew or should know.. No - for did they know.. should.. it depends what really happened.. if the parents did this on their own then NO, I don't blame the staff.. I had no clue how much my dad made till I was about 30 y.o... seriously.. who asks their dad how much you bringing home ole man.. Do you think PC went to each players home to see how they were living compared to when they recruited them??? I didn't think so... the part about Reggies car.. it was a 96 Impala.. if someone shows up in a 7 plus year old car.. I'm sure not going to think its suspicious.. esp an Impala.. even if it had nice rims.. now if that is a new Benz.. then.. maybe but it wasn't..
2006 - USC QB Mark Sanchez was arrested for investigation of sexual assault
Serious crime, but the charge was dropped and in fact much like Rucker's case, there were serious doubts about the accuser's story.
edited to add: that eye witnesses were there and this story was bogus from the first piece of crap from her spewing mouth.. she was a liar plain and simple.. too many witnesses contradicted her and there was ZERO physical evidence and not one shred of evidence to even take it to a GJ.. and they take anything to GJ's now a days
2006 - USC WR Dwayne Jarrett investigated for failing to pay rent
Misleading. He paid his rent, but per NCAA rules his agreement with Leinart and his father was dubious. Another stupid NCAA rule. I had uneven rent agreements with my friends while at USC, whoever had the bigger room or the actual parking instead of street parking etc. had various deductions.
In Jarrett's case the Leinarts said he had to pay a reduced rent and make it up later once in the NFL. Yawn.
edited to add.. to me this is one of the biggest issues at SC.. assuming the Bush case isn't true or it was all the bush parents.. if so, then this one to me should have resulted in some sort of sanction as DJ, Matt and Mr. Leinert should have known better and that includes the staff.. just my two cents
2006 - USC DBs Brandon & Ryan Ting quit the team under allegations of steroid use
And are on their way to becoming excellent doctors! Oy.
edit: ditto.. these guys were on roids.. a bit off topic but there is a connection to Barry bonds there too
2007 - A federal investigation revealed tapes regarding USC RB Reggie Bush and his family allegedly extorting $280,000 in cash, rent and gifts while he was playing football for USC.
Another misleading writeup. The grand jury investigation is investigating extortion BY Bush's accusers agaist the Bush family. If in fact these tapes are real, they will work against his accusers as proof of extortion. People think this is the smoking gun against Bush when it is exactly the opposite.
edited to add a few things.. this is part of the above story.. and two.. for all the Yahoo claims about tapes etc.. none of it has ever been seen or heard.. that in itself should tell you a lot
2007 - USC LB Clay Matthews created a racist Facebook group called "White Nation". The group was joined by USC players David Buehler, Brian Cushing, Dan Deckas and Dallas Sartz.
Satire and a play on the nickname given to them by one of the coaches. They should not have done it and their graphics used on it were despicable but this is really a lightweight charge. None of the players are racists.
edited to add.. duhhh... stupid of course.. it was an internal thing that went a wee bit too far.. not that they did it.. but that they did it on the fricken internet.. duhhh.. what did they think.. does it make me think they are racists.. NOT... it wouldn't no matter what team did this under the same circumstances
2007 - USC compliance officials investigate illegal recruiting of RB Joe McKnight.
No story here.
edit: ditto.. this is definitely a sour grapes issue
Yawn, most of this has been cleared up. USC's rap sheet is no longer than any other prominent school's once you realize stuff like the Winston Justice toy gun incident are not really indicative of the program doing anything wrong.
Fight ON.
Paragon SC said:
posted on May 31, 2007 9:25 PM — 24.0.210.247 — link — abuse?
Kevin,
Of course we’re not happy about it, but I am not going to lose sleep or raise my blood pressure over it, That is not my job or my problem. I have said numerous times on my site that I am not happy about these incidents but there is a point at which where you say your piece and move on. There is no fan of any program that likes to see their team/players be involved these sorts of incidents.
The problem you have here is that you bundle a lot of different issues into one basket. Some of this stuff is BS and you know it but in order to make your point you throw it all together and that is where you lose credibility. If this didn’t involve a top football program currently riding on a huge wave of popularity and success this wouldn’t matter except to those of us who root for USC or the knuckleheads across town.
Screaming and yelling about it only gets you so far and usually in the negative. Just look at Bruins Nation, I have no problem with a fan base demanding change or accountability of their program but because they have taken it to such a frantic level wit
H personal attacks they lose credibility even within their own fan base. Some will say I'm burying my head in the sand and that’s fine but in the end if USC fans have an issue they will rise up and let it be knownMore important, at least to me, most of the accusations of abuse/assault have yet to be proven. So where there’s smoke there’s fire is that it? It is obvious that you are jaded just by your final comment in #30. I’m not blind but I would like some proof. It is easy to accuse someone and not have the proof to back it up. I think your question about Carroll may be legitimate, but if it is such a big deal to USC they will address it. When they do I’ll support whatever action they take but until then the professional whiners can continue spew whatever crap they like and it won’t change a thing.
SEMINOLE_NATION said:
posted on May 31, 2007 10:10 PM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
So let me ask USC fans this...
There's an obvious discipline problem. Some of these incidents are MAJOR and some are SMALL but they are ALL NEGATIVE on the university.
PC hasn't been at USC for THAT long but the list of MAJOR and SMALL incidents IS long.
To USC fans: at what point do you cut ties with PC? When does the integrity of the university and the program take priority over the win/loss column?
Paragon SC said:
posted on May 31, 2007 10:36 PM — 24.0.210.247 — link — abuse?
Seminole @#74
Not my call. Thats the schools call. I suppose they'll gut ties when the heat gets too hot. and based on all the gnashing of teeth about it, it would seem that SC has some pretty thick skin.
I'm still not sure why anyone outside of SC really cares. and I'm not buying the whole sanctity of the game crap. The NCAA can step in anytime they want and address it with all the other stupid rules they have. if they choose not to what do you expect me to do? Scream and yell...yeah right, I've got more important things to do.
C-DOGG said:
posted on June 1, 2007 12:23 AM — 76.188.187.161 — link — abuse?
I'm not a big fan of Softball but.....did you guys see the BOOTY on that pitcher from Arizona (#9)? Wow! Sorry, I know it's off subject, but I couldn't help myself. Maybe this comment would have fit better on the Louisville cheerleader spread (for whoever remembered that).
trojstan said:
posted on June 1, 2007 2:10 AM — 68.227.224.245 — link — abuse?
Pete Carroll is a stand-up, honest guy who cares about the young men on his team and their development as much as he does the reputation of the university.
USC will defend him not only because he is a better coach than any of your teams' coaches (it needs to be said that you all support other programs that USC has obviously beaten, and that is clear motivation for your arguments here) but also because he is trustworthy and committed.
Every time an incident occurs, he takes full responsibility (i.e. 'won't pass the buck comments'). This demonstrates his straightforward, no-excuses approach not his unwillingness to discipline. You simply have no argument when it comes to questioning Coach Carroll's reputation.
SEMINOLE_NATION said:
posted on June 1, 2007 8:07 AM — 71.14.108.232 — link — abuse?
trojstan #77:
We all have a right to questioning what's going on at USC, FSU, Miami, Texas, or any other program. If people didn't question things no one would ever be held accountable. I'm glad PC "takes full responsibility" but that's not really what people are questioning... people are questioning what has PC done to PREVENT other instances from happening. It's a valid question.
However, you're argument has come into question:
"(it needs to be said that you all support other programs that USC has obviously beaten, and that is clear motivation for your arguments here)"
Uh, yes I obviously support another program. Those aren't my motives though. I don't recall USC ever beating FSU so those can't be my motives.
To address why people outside of USC care, because it affects CF. Because there are SERIOUS on going investigations that could lead to SERIOUS penalties against USC.
Personally, I enjoy seeing and watching greatness and that's been USC the past few years. However, there are legitimate questions and concerns how the discipline of the USC program.
TrojanHorse said:
posted on June 1, 2007 10:16 AM — 132.228.195.207 — link — abuse?
What is funny on this thread is that I don't see many posters (I didn't say none) from other top ten schools except LSU (like they should talk.. look up > "Nick Saban" arrested and you will get 69,500 so that tells you something & UF fans with Urban's 33,700 also shouldn't be yapping.. however the remaining of last years top tens, Texas, tOSU,Wisc, Louisville, Auburn, WVU Michigan don't seem to be bitchin.. granted I don't know who some of you guys are alums of b/c I can't tell from your posts or names (and I don't recall from other threads);its just the has been programs like F$U, and Miami that bitch the most
trojstan said:
posted on June 1, 2007 12:16 PM — 68.227.224.245 — link — abuse?
I never said you didn't have the right to criticize Pete Carroll. I said you are foolish to.
Whether or not USC beat your team matters little; what does matter is that these boards are clearly populated by people who want to see their team succeed and other teams fail. This conversation is a clear example of that. We aren't exactly objective.
Also, it seems to me that Kevin has a long list of small allegations, a short list of serious allegations with no convictions. Even Eric Wright didn't get charged by the LAPD for anything. If these 'allegations' turned into people going to jail - you might have an argument.
KnowsLAVeryWell said:
posted on June 1, 2007 1:44 PM — 63.250.141.42 — link — abuse?
It helps to have the Los Angeles District Attorney be a USC Law school graduate and season ticket holder.
The crime is not their well-connected, deep pocketed defense lawyers - it's that the cases always get dropped for various legal-speak reasons. Nothing ever gets prosecuted. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would be laughable.
BruinMike said:
posted on June 1, 2007 3:19 PM — 63.205.61.22 — link — abuse?
Trojstan #81"Also, it seems to me that Kevin has a long list of small allegations, a short list of serious allegations with no convictions. Even Eric Wright didn't get charged by the LAPD for anything. If these 'allegations' turned into people going to jail - you might have an argument."
The DA dismissed because he said he couldn't "prove" weather the x was Wrights or his roommates because they weren't talking....Are you kidding me? With non-celebrity defendants the DA would charge everyone how lived in the house! Since when can 2 drug dealers get caught with a significant amount of "product" at their pad and NOT get charged because they didn't talk?!?!? PS Wright's roommate was another trojan football player....pete didn't do anything to him....And it was the student oversight committee that gave eric "easy x" wright the boot from sc, not pc.
SC Football Fan said:
posted on June 1, 2007 4:59 PM — 67.115.24.30 — link — abuse?
TrojanHorse says #15:
when you are the gold standard, you will be talked about on a daily basis
if you look at a bunch of these links they are nothing but blogs that will say.. PC and the trojans are doing XYZ (nothing bad) and the next paragraph will talk about some other school where an arrest occurs yet on this search, it is a hit..
of course CFB blogs will mention PC and the trojans.. hence the high number of hits.. who cares if UConn and Randy edsell do something wrong.. other than a local paper and blog it gets no hits.. SC will get hit dozens of times for the same DUI.. go look for yourself.. if this was UConn, there are maybe two hits.
SC Football Fan says:
I think you have made a valid point. When you are the most visible team in the nation, like SC is, and the most talked about team, everyone is going to look for dirt to talk about. They enjoy serious smack talk. Pete Carroll is a straight-forward, first-class guy and he doesn't take misconduct lightly. He cares about his players and their development, along with USC's reputation. He handles these situations personally and professionally. I wish there were more coaches in PC's league!
USCLink said:
posted on June 1, 2007 5:02 PM — 75.58.244.38 — link — abuse?
Kevin
Sorry bout the personal attacks earlier...way out of line, totally uncalled for, and I apologize.
As other posters have expressed, Its a difference in degree, and I'll agree to disagree about what does, and does not cross the line regarding severity.
A poster over at CC, wrote an excellent post that more or less summed up my views much more eloquently than I can, so here's a small excerpt:
Incidents I was/am concerned about:
2005 - USC CB Eric Wright was arrested for investigation of sexual assault.
2005 - USC CB suspended three semesters after police found 136 Ecstasy pills in his apartment
2005 - USC DE Frostee Rucker investigated for spousal battery (later charged with two misdemeanor counts of spousal battery and two counts of vandalism from the 2005 beating of his girlfriend)
2005 - USC LB Rey Maualuga arrested for misdemeanor battery after punching a man at an off-campus Halloween party
2006 - USC QB Mark Sanchez was arrested for investigation of sexual assault (as previously noted by other posters, concerned because of the underage drinking and fake ID)
2006 - USC DBs Brandon & Ryan Ting quit the team under allegations of steroid use
2006 - USC RB Reggie Bush and his family investigated for improper gifts and benefits
2007 - USC junior safety Josh Pinkard arrested May 18 on the suspicion of drunk driving.Most of the things on that list were dealt with to my satisfaction. Although I'm very disappointed that these things happened, either the players responsible left the team early, or a punishment that I think was appropriate, given the circumstances, was handed out. I'm not too happy with the Frostee Rucker incident, based on my understanding of it, but that's really the one thing."
Its a matter of perspective, and ours are clearly different. I guess what we agree upon is that there is a problem. The disagreement comes from what we understand to be the severity of it, and whether it has been dealt with sufficiently.
Again, apologies for the personal attacks, very uncalled for on my part.
50 Cal USMC said:
posted on June 1, 2007 5:24 PM — 204.62.68.23 — link — abuse?
The only Serious issues here...
- Winston Justice; "suspicion of felony assault" was actually only 3 misdermeanors on exhibiting a rplica firearm. It was one of the FEW cases that ended with a player actually being Sentenced.
... USC/Carroll Suspended him for a Year.
- Eric Wright; caught with drugs (regarding the other allegations, the Los Angeles D.A. did not press charges, Not Enough Evidence!)... USC/Carroll essentially booted him from the team, a Year and a half Suspension. Eric Wright NEVER played another Down for USC after that.
What other Allegations proved to be anything more than a-l-l-e-g-a-t-i-o-n-s.ei, Rey Maualuga; Punching a guy. No Charges were filed... USC/Carroll initially demoted Maualuga to the scout team... and I believe the guy later attended anger management training (N-o. C-h-a-r-g-e-s)...
- Sanchez = No Charges- Dennis = No Charges
Eye of the Tiger said:
posted on June 1, 2007 5:45 PM — 68.107.110.83 — link — abuse?
This is going way over some your heads. This is a disciplinary issue, and it's not just USC getting picked on. Just last month there were two seperate post concerning LSU's mishaps. This is not a jealousy issue. I think the point that most people were trying to make was that the alumni, or fans don't even seem to care, and judging by some of these post I'm starting to agree.
posted on June 1, 2007 6:39 PM — link — abuse?
@USCLink - No worries on the flung poo. I'm a big boy, you are too. So, since all of these matters have been handled correctly... why do they keep happening? Would you be surprised if there was another instance since it is under control?
@Eye - Well said. I still just don't understand how fans turn their eye and say that only x# of incidents were serious so no worries. Head in the sand. Head in the sand.
Please note that all comments are subject to the Fanblogs Comment Policy.
C-DOGG said:
posted on May 30, 2007 7:42 PM — 76.188.187.161 — link — abuse?Hey Kev,
Why did you have to put Miami first? You act as if we are the posterboys for bad behavior! (wink-wink) :o) alphabetical order of teams would have been fine.